Potpouri

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

For lack of a better title, I chose potpouri, since this will inform the membership of a few incidentals.

Did you know:


Total Members: 686
Members with at least one post: 301
Members with zero posts: 386


One member is named tloner and hasn't made a post and is not included in the total nor zero posts figure. I suspect this is someone who slipped by the administrators.

Participation:

Just like a real CPOA meeting, unlike a Chief's Call where people can be ordered to attend, the participants must be willing. Of the 301 posters, the top 25, as of approximately 1800 EST 28 Mar 07 are:

http://www.tech-service.net/images/CPO_mess_top_25_28mar07.gif

Questions to ponder:

Why are more than half the members still sitting at zero posts?

I realize you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, but what is keeping them from participating? Is this the result of "forcing" them to sign up as part of their CCTI?

How can we "market" this site to attract those who are not members?

Where is a marketing major when we need one ... :) I'm a neophyte at that game.

Just my potpouri for today :)

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Wow Joe

Pretty impressive, post the numbers and get "Voice of Reason" under your name instead of "Experienced Member". Or do you have some incriminating photos of Dennis?

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Dave,

You'll have to ask the admin or whoever about the voice of reason moniker, as there are three members with that under their name.

Nope ... no incriminating pictures.

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Wahoo1 No. 1, No. 1 and everyone them quality and the "voice of reason."

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

Wahoo1 No. 1, No. 1 and everyone them quality and the "voice of reason."

Or maybe you just like to hear yourself type.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Wahoo1 No. 1, No. 1 and everyone them quality and the "voice of reason."


"FAIR AND BALANCED" ???? :D

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Joe, your numbers are a little off. If it’s average post per day then OK, but over all there way off. I have over 242 post and not even listed and I’m sure there are people that have more post then I. From what I get from your number’s and what your implying is that someone with 5 post in the last 9 days participates more in the mess then many other’s do with over 200 post. Not far and balanced. Very one sided. For you to say that I don’t participate in the mess because I only post .26 times per day and that somehow because someone post 6.115 times per day means that they participate more then I is very offending to me. Its not how many times you say it or how many times you open your mouth it’s what comes out of your mouth that count’s. You need to get your numbers straight before telling someone that they don’t participate in the mess.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Questions to ponder:

Why are more than half the members still sitting at zero posts?

I realize you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, but what is keeping them from participating? Is this the result of "forcing" them to sign up as part of their CCTI?

How can we "market" this site to attract those who are not members?

Joe you can find some answers in this thread:

http://cgchiefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Art,

I went down the members list, page by page, and copies and pasted whatever it showed.

Your figures were:

MKC Art Bailly 242 1022 0.24

So, you posted 242 times during a 1022 day membership period for an average of 0.24 posts per day.

It was a decending sort by the average posts per day of membership.

I only listed the top 25, not all of the 301 who posted at least once.

And those who haven't posted once ... there has been no quality from them. I never accused anyone who posted of not posting quality. You need to lighten up.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

John,

I remember reading that thread when you started it. Yes there has been some things tried to encourage some to visit and post, but I don't know if it's been tracked, so we don't know how successful [positive thinking] the methods have been.

I'll look at it again in a quarter and see if there is any movement on that ratio.

I'm sure the 386 who haven't posted, might be lurkers.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

I would guess that a few people haven't posted much or as much as they would have over say the last 62 days or so because of number 1.
Granted there are some posting even more now because of it but have you noticed all the hate and discontent here now? It's getting more like that other site now.

Jayare

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Is this the result of "forcing" them to sign up as part of their CCTI?

Joe...no one is being "forced" to join because of the CCTI. Some new E-7's have been charged with joining and posting. Once charged...it's up to them to join or not.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Keep in mind the numbers of posts may be slightly off. When we go in to "prune" or archive the threads, it reflects a reduction in number of posts under the member name.

This topic came up some time ago and that was how it was explained. We have not gone in and cleaned up the old threads in awhile so I'm not sure if there is an upgrade to the software that chaged that or not.

I don't think that average posts/day over the term of a membership is an accurate reflection on the quality of the posts.

As with a "terrestrial" mess our "virtual" mess will never have 100% participation. I have been to plenty of Chief's Calls where there were people that didn't have a lot to say if anything at all. They made their opinions known through body language or other means. Whereas, there were were other people that dominated the discussion and really had nothing of any quality to add, except hear themselves speak or inflame others.

Quantity doesn't always equal Quality

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Art,
Don't be offended. You are right with your "quality over quantity" reasoning. Besides, these are just statistics for your perusal. I don't think anyone is casting any judgement by them.

I almost made a double post, but was able to edit this in time. Look, I have made it to a "voice of reason". Cool. That is certainly a first for me.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If I were to judge the "quality" of the posts, there would be a few members with lower numbers. It takes two for a pissing contest to ensue, and that number rises expontentially with some. I knew when I posted that chart, there would be "quality" issues with some. Besides, there have been posts that some consider quality and others won't. The number would be different for everyone concerned.

I do agree that there is a valid comparison between this "virtual" mess and the terrestrial mess. The same conditions exist here that MCPO Tim Lackey and I once discussed before the Old Guard Ball in NYC concerning CPOA membership participation. Neither of us had any answers twenty-some years ago. To participate all one needs is the want to.

I don't know if the thread count drops, as the total can be in a different database that increments by one each time you post. That hypothesis could be tested quickly by the moderator deleting any contentious thread in the round file. I'm thinking it won't drop.

I realize no one is physically "forced" to join or post, I just couldn't find le' molte juste. I know there was a discussion about the PCPO charges including the joining and posting here. To some, the inclusion of the retirees hampered the discussion, but there is evidence that the participation problem existed a long time before the influx of the refugee's from the other site.

Time will tell with the new variable thrown into the mix, the donation. I have mixed feelings concerning the loss of the closed area for all, but that thought is in the genesis stage juxtaposing the pros and cons.

I doubt there is anyone who would give this thread the quality thumbs up. :) I know I wouldn't, but as in all threads, there maybe something of quality to someone. Even if someone get's to read the book ... How to Lie with statistics. :)

[PAC Darrell Wilson (Ret)]

Joe, I like your title and what it implies. Here's the deal, I think this site has gone down hill since Bill Wells showed up. I stay away from most threads he is involved with. I know some others have left cause of him.

Another thing, the word about this site is not getting out!!!!! I spoke to an active duty MC today who had never heard of it so I sent him a link.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

It would be my opinion that it is probably just like every other Chiefs mess about 10% of the folks doing the work. Nobodies been able to figure how to fix that one yet! The word has gotten out, remember the survey? Every one in the CG got it. Whether or not they filled it out is another question? This site is also attached as a link to alot of other sites. The MCPO of the CG sent out an email about CWO's and others. If you truely want to include them then invite them to your mess, tell them to join the site. Remember
"Once a Chief, always a Chief." Our Mess recently almost doubled it's size because of a friendly invite. And we can learn alot from those Chiefs.

Don't feel bad Art, my numbers weren't there either. I gotta be over 1K days. 08 June 2004 is my join date, but only about 87 posts or so.

And some people just aren't that chatty any how, so that may be some of the problem with getting people to post.

And maybe I am too chatty sometimes, like recently.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Darrell,

I'm sure there are some that will agree with you and there has been a few threads that went downhill quickly and they were moved to the roundfile.

I'm also sure there would be multiple interpetations of what was said in some of those posts authored by Bill Wells. I'm know Bill uses words in the obscure way knowing it will spark a response.

I also suspect some don't read his posts or attachments, but will reply with a rabid fever ... because they just can't ignore their interpetation of what he stated in his posts or the "teaser".

Don't get me wrong, I've typed many a words in anger over the last decade only to delete it before pressing the submit button. Typically my response didn't have a cogent thought as the emotion of the moment guided my fingers on the keyboard, but, I got the immediate, emotional response out and I could ponder what was said and check to see if the intent followed my emotions. I was the same way on active duty ... if I had an emotional outburst it was said and done ... and hopefully it wasn't a key player in me evaluating others or others evaluating me ... although I know it was in one instance causing an ET2 (me in 1975) to get lower leadership marks from the "Chief's Marks Review Board". I walked into the appeals portion of that board saw who was there and said ... Never mind, I know why may marks were lowered.

I don't respond to alot of threads ... but some certainly catch my attention and I'll respond. Typically the false belief that the SWE is the great equalizer that people pass to be qualified for the next rate or other topics towards advancements or training grab my attention.

I'm curious ... It would be interesting to see if someone would gather all the names of the people who "have left cause of him", Bill Wells, and see how active they were in this forum. I ask that because it would eliminate the "common names" that people share. None have ever approached me.

I can see non-members, members with zero posts, and members with one or more posts with their membership days and number of posts as the tallying topics.

Anyone have any answers to that inquiry?

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Joe,

You bring up an interesting point about people leaving because of certain individuals -- I really don't want to keep beating that dead horse here, Admin has taken care of the situation.

Any poll that we conduct with that question will be inaccurate. There is anecdotal evidence suggesting this the case, but to gather hard scientific data on this would be difficult. How would we get them to respond to a poll if they are not coming here anymore anyway?

You do bring up a very good point about maybe taking a moment to read through our words before we hit the send button (here and in our e-mail). There have been many times when my fingers flew across the keyboard in anger (not just at recent members, but others as well) then I took the time to read waht was there and realized I would have made a bad situation even worse.

We do not have the luxury of face-to-face communication here and perhaps if we were sitting in a room with certain individuals having the same conversation, the outcome would have been different.

Someone on this board recently fired me an e-mail offline that gave me good advice. "Sometimes these people are not worth it"

So remember, even though certain people flamed the boards and we did get our ire up and respond in anger, maybe we kept the arguments going when we really didn't need to.

It does take two to argue

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Steve,

I'm not asking for a poll. I'm wondering how active they were before leaving.

Does someone who never posted but proclaims "I'm leaving because of Steve" deserve a moment of our time? They certainly don't deserve any of my time as they haven't contributed one iota to the discussion. I guess my concern would be biased towards their activity ... with the one and done types falling very slightly above the none and done types.

Polls are like any other voting, those that vote will, those that don't won't.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Joe,

I agree with you there, you have to contribute befre you can come up with an excuse for leaving.

I will go in to see if we can figure out how many lurkers we have, based on last logon and time spent reading the boards without contributing.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Joe...BMCS Ian McVicker left the board as a result of Bill. Ian was an active poster and a positive contributor. His stats are gone because he was deleted as a member. his posts will still be on the board, but his post count has been scrubbed. I'm guessing that he had between 150-200 posts, but that is just a guess.

Data is data...we can make numbers look like anything we want them to.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Deane,

I agree we can make the data illustrate whatever we choose. I chose the posts per day of membership since the variable days of membership varied too greatly. That to me indicates the activity.

I'm sure some could look over the thousands of posts here and make a case for the quality of the posts in the eyes of whoever does the analysis.

At 200 posts, do you know when he joined? Granted Ian was more active than some.

I did notice in my brief looking at the membership was a person I knew when they were a PO3, PO2, PO1, and CPO. They certainly didn't mind flappin' their jaws back then but they have a total of zero posts. If he's lurking here, he will know who he is.

Then there's another one I know who has zero postings. That was just two names I saw when I was sorting the names.

If Dennis didn't cull the membership ... the number of members with zero posts could have been much higher.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

So, 50% of the membership here have not made one post... hummmmm.. I bet that is still better than that of "Fred's Place"... Fred boasts a membership of 47K+... If emails were sent out to all 47K I bet there would be about 10% that would reply.... The other 90% have either moved on, or have changed their e-mail addresses.. Fred has been asked to do this, but wont.

It's a shame people like BMCS Ian McVicker pull up anchor and depart, with the excuse that one person ran them off.. I would expect a Senior Chief to handle the situation differently.

Wray... :cool:

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

Joe...BMCS Ian McVicker left the board as a result of Bill. Ian was an active poster and a positive contributor.

And I agree that we lost a positive person...but then again, this is my humble feeling regarding this topic!!!! And I'm sure there are some that would say "Good Bye"!!!! Right Bill?

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

And I'm sure there are some that would say "Good Bye"!!!! Right Bill?

Don't expect an answer from Bill anytime soon. Check back in a month.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

So that's why it's been quieter in here the last few days.:D

Jayare

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

So that's why it's been quieter in here the last few days.

It happened yesterday ... 3/30/07 ... so your inference using the the last few days is incorrect. I wonder if others have shared in the same fate as it takes two to tango, or have a urinating contest. There have been some ugly words directed towards Bill. But since I haven't seen a link to the "Rules", other than what was listed in the thread, I assumed they haven't been promulgated but have been applied to some earlier postings ... making that an ex post facto application of the unpromulgated rules and applicable punishments, very similiar to an incident over a decade ago.

I'm not a moderator, just a reader ... and it wasn't my call to make.

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

Hey Joe
I am starting to think you might have too much time on your hands. If you are that bored I have a lot of "honey does" at my house that never seem to get done. :) :) :)
I am just kidding Joe, but my wife would welcome your help.
Gary

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, I was looking at these numbers for the past couple of years. The most vocal people on the board, are .....big shock......BMs with alot of AtoN in their background. Sorry Art......but the numbers don't lie.
I think alot of people don't post because they feel their point was already made by someone else. Other people don't aren't in to the whole discussion board thing.
If we wanted to more accurately show our membership, we could cull those numbers every six months instead of once a year. I don't worry that much about the numbers. I'd like to see more people posting, but we can't "force" them to express their opinions. I see the same thing in the Mess. Some people prefer to take a back seat, and you never hear anything from them. I'm still glad they make the meetings. Maybe they're sharing the information they learned somewhere else.

I don't think that it's fair to blame any one person for people leaving, just as it isn't fair to label the people who do decide to leave. This isn't new to other sites, and it isn't new to this one either. And for the record, members of this forum have run people off in the past........ recent events, are not something new........

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Gary,

I'm doing some work, but there is some fun to be had.

For instance, in a post in the not too distant past, someone theorized that MCPO's have too much time on their hands and they post alot. So, tonight I put that hypothesis to the test and the proof is in the puddin' ...

http://www.tech-service.net/images/cpo_mess_by_grade.gif

To be fair, there is a built in bias with the 1800 posts by Stuart on the date I grabbed the membership listing. :)

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Yeah, and to be really fair, I made about 1200 of them as a SCPO.........

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

And finally in the fun with statistics catagory ....

By rating

http://www.tech-service.net/images/CPO_MESS_BY_RATING.gif

I'm sure you can guess who's the leading poster in the individual ratings. :)

The MISC rating is those who didn't assign a rating to their name ... even if I knew who they were ... like the CMC's, MCPO-CG, etc ...

[ETC John D Zidek]

Gotta Love Statistics. :D

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

The MISC rating is those who didn't assign a rating to their name ... even if I knew who they were ... like the CMC's, MCPO-CG, etc ...

CMC's & MCPO-CG's are not ratings..... why are people registering using them?

As you can see, the BM's are still the "senior" rate.. ;)

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

For instance, in a post in the not too distant past, someone theorized that MCPO's have too much time on their hands and they post alot.

Joe, don't pick on Gary & I... remember, we are retired with nothing to do... Now there is one MCPO that is active duty and has made over half the MCPO post you indicated...

I suspect that will change once he gets u/w....

Wray.. :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Wray,

If it weren't for you, Bill Wells, and Stuart ... the MCPO postings would be sparce. Gary would be a man of few posts.

Now if I were a conspiracy freak ... I'd say those PA's don't have a job ... with 201+ posts per active board member, and that lone IV must be workin' his butt off. :)

I don't understand the CMC stuff either or the few MCPO's too with no rating.

But I know there are lies, damm lies, and statistics :) and those I posted don't mean nuthin'. They are missing a few elements to be useful.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, I'd take any bets that Wray wanted to make. The majority of my posts were made while attached to a cutter.......and the GREENBRIER ties up every night,....... and I'll still be spending alot of time as a GEO......make/take the bet.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

and the GREENBRIER ties up every night

YOu may not be able to get Wi Fi signals on some of those river banks..

Don't think for a minute you will be at homeport every night....

Gary --> Got anything to add?

Wray... :cool:

[PACS Steve Carleton]

And finally in the fun with statistics catagory ....

By rating

I'm sure you can guess who's the leading poster in the individual ratings.

YES! I still have Numerical Superiority! -- Of course my dad used to always say, "figures don't lie, but liers figure!"

Now if I were a conspiracy freak ... I'd say those PA's don't have a job ... with 201+ posts per active board member

I have such a great staff that I am able to delegate the workload down to -- Are you jealous?

CMC's & MCPO-CG's are not ratings..... why are people registering using them?

Wray,

I like the fact that we have the CMC's and MCPO-CG registering with those titles, it shows our junior enlisted personnel who might be reading this board that even the CMCs are engaged.

The LANT CMC sits not 10 feet from my desk and answers his phone, "Command Master Chief James"

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

I have such a great staff that I am able to delegate the workload down to -- Are you jealous?

Nope, not in the least. My staff allowed me to go TAD annually to teach at the CGA for 10 straight years as well as participate in alot of other things.

I've told them many times that if I died, they were well qualified to carry forth the mission of the unit.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I like the fact that we have the CMC's and MCPO-CG registering with those titles, it shows our junior enlisted personnel who might be reading this board that even the CMCs are engaged.

It also shows the junior folks that no matter your rate you can still aspire to very high level positions ;) Even though the MCPOCG and CMC James' rate is BM, the senior rate ;)

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Well Steve, maybe I'll see you in a month or so if I come up for this.. are you attending?

Commander, Maintenance & Logistics Command, Atlantic
requests the pleasure of your company
at the Retirement Ceremony for

YNCS Virginia E. Raasch, U.S. Coast Guard

at Maintenance & Logistics Command, Atlantic, 300 E. Main Street, Norfolk, VA
Personnel Division – 9th Floor
on Friday, the fourth of May
Two thousand and seven
at ten thirty in the morning

A reception will immediately follow the ceremony
MLCA Personnel Division’s Conference Room – 9th Floor

Uniform:
Military Personnel: Tropical Blue Long
Civilian: Business Casual

R.S.V.P. by the 25h of April
To CWO R. T. Downs at (757) 628-4489
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was her first OIC.... Like to make it up,.... but, things are getting hectic.. on the 27th of this month I am headed down to Miami for the Change of Watch of the Gold Ancient Mariner & retirement of Captain Mike Jett, aboard Cutter Valiant...

Wray... :cool:

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Wray,

Ginny is retiring -- wow, I worked with her out in D13 when she was the Chief of Staff YN.


One more thing about the CMC/MCPO-CG Titles on the board vice Rating -- It makes sense, in that they lose their rating badge on their crows and go to the gold or silver shield.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Steve,
I was only saying what the "front page" and Registration 101 say:

You landed here first so that we can help you avoid the #1 problem of new members: Choosing an incorrect user name.

When prompted to choose a user name, you must enter:
Your rate/rank
First name or initial
Full last name
Samples: ETC David Wong (or) ETC D Wong


Any other format will be deleted.
Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guess it's time for a correction to Registration 101.... ;)

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Let's not split hairs. CMC is an authorized title (and so are the others that were mentioned).

If it's good enough for the Commandant, its good enough for us.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

[QUOTE=PACS Steve Carleton;

One more thing about the CMC/MCPO-CG Titles on the board vice Rating -- It makes sense, in that they lose their rating badge on their crows and go to the gold or silver shield.[/QUOTE]

No attempt at hi jack, but,
As an off the wall, useless bit of trivia, the silver shield was what ratings specialty mark ??

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

To answer Dana's inquiry ... Master at Arms.

I agree with Wray ... Rate/Rank is not titles. What's next? The OIC of the Cutter Wire want's to change his name to Cutter Wire?

I guess everyone assumes that once someone enters the CMC program, they will never return to their original rating.

It may be good for the Commandant but that doesn't make it correct.

What's next ... the MCPO-CG wanting E-10? I still haven't found E-10 anywhere in the US Codes, so it must be some fiction published by the Coast Guard. The only place the E- shows up in the US Codes is dealing with compensation.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Deane,
I guess some could call it splitting hairs, I just read the registration rules and registered accordingly... Let's remember, I didn't write the rules, but, I can sure read them.. ;)

What about some guy that wants to sign up as OIC Aye M. Boss...or EPO Light M. Off..... hummm.... food for thought.. same thing I'd say.... :rolleyes:

CMC, MCPO-CG, and others are titles.... nothing more, nothing less...but, if you are gonna have a rule, why not follow it:confused:

Anyhow, just thought I'd help us BM's maintain our posting numbers...

Ready for incoming....

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Deane,
I guess some could call it splitting hairs, I just read the registration rules and registered accordingly... Let's remember, I didn't write the rules, but, I can sure read them.. ;)

What about some guy that wants to sign up as OIC Aye M. Boss...or EPO Light M. Off..... hummm.... food for thought.. same thing I'd say.... :rolleyes:

CMC, MCPO-CG, and others are titles.... nothing more, nothing less...but, if you are gonna have a rule, why not follow it:confused:

Anyhow, just thought I'd help us BM's maintain our posting numbers...

Ready for incoming....

Wray... :cool:

Wray, I guess we could add OINC to our name if the CG decided to give me a Sr Chief Badge for my Bravos that reflected that. CMC, CSC and instructors at CPOA all have no rating on thier bravos. I can live with the CMC or MCPO(CPOA) if that is what HQ wants. At least it is not like a navy MCPO I met that did want to be called MAster Chief, he was a Master Diver and wanted to be called that.

As far as MCPOCG, he deserves it.

burt

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

For both the Command Master Chief and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard, if selected you receive another advancement certificate for that position, which is the basis for the change in title.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

For both the Command Master Chief and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard, if selected you receive another advancement certificate for that position, which is the basis for the change in title.

Interesting....although I find it hard to understand how you can "advance" from one E-9 position to another.

When I started this, I was only playing around, just trying to get people to open up a bit... start thinking and perhaps chat a bit...sure not a big deal to me what anyone calls themsleves... I do understand sometimes ego's are made of glass, and far be it from me to cast any stones.

I expected Dennis to fuss at me about this, but I guess it didn't interest him...

Oh well, take your time and utilize it on the CPOA conventions thread.. much more useful..

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Maybe one of the CMC's can scan in and POST their advancement certificate or post the sample certificate.

Which instruction authorizes such a thing or is it one of those Flag Voice unofficial directives?

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

Wray, I guess we could add OINC to our name if the CG decided to give me a Sr Chief Badge for my Bravos that reflected that. CMC, CSC and instructors at CPOA all have no rating on thier bravos.

Are you telling me that now instructors do not have a specialty? Do all out of specialty people have the option to not wear their specialty or is this something special that the CPO Academy (I hate it when they call it the CPOA) has taken it upon themselves to do. I thought the CMC stuff was a little screwy, but I guess I could live with that, the others seem a little bit out of line to me.
Gary

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

(I hate it when they call it the CPOA)

Gary, as you well know, the CPOA = Chief Petty Officers Association, which was established in 1969.

the "other" is the CPO Academy, which to make it easier is now abrivated the same as our CPOA. You know, it's sorta like those that can't take the time to say Master Chief Perry Officer of the Coast Guard (MCPO-CG) they just call him an E-10, which those of us that can read & can count to 10 can plainly see the military pay scale only goes to E-9. Just another misconception.

With that said, I hope you can find all you Easter eggs under that white stuff... Talk to you later...

Wray... :cool:
P.S. There you go, making me stir the pot again... ;)

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Gary,

I hate it when they call the Academy the CPOA also. I hope the CPOA [association] doesn't have that as a registered trademark or other copywrite to the acronym, else the CG would be infringing on the rights of the real CPOA. :)

I see I lost my "voice of reason" moniker too. Oh well.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

The loss of the rating specialty mark for the MCPO-CG and AREA CEAs is probably understandable, if you're considering them an "out of rating" assignment or however its worded today. The CPOAcad instructors, where'd that come from ??

The first two MCPO Navy wore their rating specialty with three stars above the "crow". A GMCM and ADCM. Calhoun wore the BM specialty mark on Khakis and the "old" SDB. It wasn't until about 1972 when the USN and CG changed the specialty mark to that worn by the old Master at Arms,(the star - USN) and (the shield -CG) a rating that disappeared in 1920 for both services.

For the MCPO-CG, considering that the CG designates the office as the senior enlisted in the service, then a gold shield is probably appropriate and the AREA CEAs, the senior enlisted for the AREA, a silver shield will do. For the rest, it's a "temp" job, always kind of figured the chest badge took care of visual recognition and their rating specialty should have remained on the rating badge.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I see I lost my "voice of reason" moniker too. Oh well.

I noticed that too, maybe you should have had it copyrighted.

If you wanna talk about lazy acronyms, the Navy refer to their Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (E10 - sp pay gd) as McPon, like McDonalds without the alds.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

I noticed that too, maybe you should have had it copyrighted.

Good catch John.

McPON is probably better then McPOCG [Mc Pocg .... sounds a little Klingonish to me]. :)

[BMC John Phillips III]

Yes, I have heard that one too but ironically it was from the same Navy Master Chief. It definitely cheapens both titles.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

How does calling the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy MCPON (all caps) cheapen it? I don't understand that. The Chief of Naval Operations is referred to as the CNO...does that cheapen that also? I don't see how.

No one is referring to the MCPON as a joke, that's just what they call them. How does it cheapen it? Believe me, if someone says MCPON, there's no disrespect by the person saying it.

Does it cheapen a Senior Chief to be called "Senior". I don't think so.

Maybe you can clarify.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I could clarify or you could reread my post.

They referred to him as "McPon" pronounced (Mick Pon). To me, that cheapens it.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

"Does it cheapen a Senior Chief to be called "Senior". I don't think so. "
-----------------------------------------------------
In the vernacular of today and the general acceptance it is probably the norm, and may be perfectly acceptable.

The grades of E-8 & E-9 were created in 1958, but it wasn't until mid 1973 before the USN changed the verbal forms of address to reflect " senior" and "master" attached to chief. Up till that time, a Chief was just that, "Chief".

I don't recall full acceptance in the CG until around 1980 or so. It took a long time to change old habits and get the usage of the terms accepted by all hands.

Different times and different longsplices, but the extra second to add "chief" to the form of address shouldn't hurt.

Just an older farts opinion.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I could clarify or you could reread my post.

They referred to him as "McPon" pronounced (Mick Pon). To me, that cheapens it.

I don't need to reread your post...I got it the first time. But, thanks for the pronunciation exercise.

I was just asking you to clarify, because I really don't see what gets cheapened when they say MCPON (I know how it's pronounced, I'm just not going to spell it with the small "c"...I think that cheapens it).

[BMC John Phillips III]

I don't understand that. The Chief of Naval Operations is referred to as the CNO...does that cheapen that also? I don't see how.

Ok, well then I misunderstood your post, cause I didn't think you were saying the CNO was referred to as the (K-no). Naturally when you used that example before the MCPON one, I assumed you were speaking the letters, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

However, I don't know of any word that starts with Mc where the c is capitolized so I hear it how you are seeing it typed. So to me (and typed out to you) it does cheapen it.

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

I clearly remember when I first heard the Chief Petty Officer Academy referred to as the CPOA. It was when it was moved to Yorktown. A CWO that was an instructor there referred to it as such on liberty. I had to ask him three times what he ment before he got the idea that I did not like it. I felt like the Chief Petty Officer Association should have gone to the Commandant immediately and asked him to direct them to stop using CPOA. Unfortunately they thought they had the right to do so. It is too bad, that is probably the time that tradition began to have little or no meaning in the Coast Guard. I am sure when Bill Wells comes back he can verify that for me!!!! It is my opinion, (and I am ready to hear the flack) that no self respecting Chief Petty Officer would use that acronym. The Chief Petty Officers Association has been known as the CPOA for over 40 years. The founders of the Academy should have known better. I do not think it is too late to change!
Gary Keen

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

Does it cheapen a Senior Chief to be called "Senior". I don't think so.
Deane: I always prefered to not be called "Senior" and I really did not like being called "Master", not sure why, but it alwasy irritated me.
Gary

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

If you really want to get me going ask me how I feel about the Coast Guard Enlisted Association still being part of the Chief Petty Officers Association. That was originally only going to be for a period of less than two years, but some of the leadership in the "CPOA" decided to make it permanent. The membership had nothing to say about it. As a matter of fact, someone should probably start a thread about that.
Gary

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

You go Gary.. You are on a ROLL...............

Of course I'd like to hear what some others think about these things.....

Wray... :cool:

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

MCPON is what one of the former Master Chief Petty Officer's of the Navy calls himself! Atleast it was a few years ago when I shared a dinner table with MCPO-N (ret) Bob Walker. The CG sponsored All Nine Ball here in tidewater in 2003, my wife and I had the pleasure of sharing a table with MCPO-N Retired Bob Walker. At the begining of the evening he introduced himself to all at the table as "MCPON" (however you care to spell it).

As for being address as Senior vs. Senior Chief - I think it's much ado about nothing. Most of the time I wore the stars of a Senior Chief, they were so poorly situated on the collar device that it was a wonder anyone ever saw them. Even the new and Improved devices are better, but those little stars are still hard to see sitting atop that anchor.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Gary
I wrote it because I was in a hurry and maybe a tad lazy, but no self respect..........I have never been told that but if you base that on one thing I typed, you could say anything you want too and make yourself believe it.

burt

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

Gary
I wrote it because I was in a hurry and maybe a tad lazy, but no self respect..........I have never been told that but if you base that on one thing I typed, you could say anything you want too and make yourself believe it.

burt

I am not real clear what you mean by this, but I will take a shot and guess you think I am saying you are not a self respecting Chief because you used the CPOA in vain. My point was not to bring attention to what you said, it was to stress to the room that I really resent the fact that the Chief Petty Officer Academy continues to refer to itself as the CPOA. I am not sure why they are unable to develop their own identity but that seems to be the case. The fact of the matter remains that I think that Chief Petty Officers should not refer to the Chief Petty Officer Academy as the CPOA. If you feel that it is ok for you to do that go ahead. It just seems like a cheap shot to me.

Gary

[BMC John Phillips III]

Here's my two cents and Lord knows my penny jar is no where near being empty.

The retirees take things like this a lot more serious than the active duties. I mean, the E10 issue, the Ancient Mariner Issue, this one (CPO A vs CPOA), I guess they are all reasonable arguments or causes, but my work day and daily routine is full of things that I find way more important.

I obviously have different opinions on each of the issues above and I will go as far as to say, I did find it wierd that we have the CPOA and the CPO A, but 99.9% of the time when someone mentions one or I read it as an acronym, I can easily distinguish which one is being referred to. Kind of like the words read and read(red). I don't see it as a big deal and having been to the CPO Academy, I can honestly say that there is no way sharing the acronym detracts from the CPO Assoc. The CPO Association does a lot of good things and so does the Academy.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

John,
You are correct.. There are things far more important than this... but, if someone would have exercised a little leadership, there would be no discussion, what so ever, if there is an E-10 pay grade, or what CPOA means.

Procrastination has caused confusion & these questions.. The sad part is that some of the senior enlisted now don't know the difference, or what to believe... :rolleyes:

It's just that simple....

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

John:
Not sure where you have been for the past several months, but on all the issues you mentioned above my comments were based on things that happened while I was on Active Duty. Possibly some of the reasons that tradition is no longer important in todays Coast Guard is that Chiefs like you have such important things to do. Just in case you are wondering, I do find your comments offensive.
Gary

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

but my work day and daily routine is full of things that I find way more important.

John,

That is a very common cop out. It ranks up there with ... I have a real job.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Gary-

John has a point. Most of us (active and retired) would not put any serious effort into these causes. I find the discussions of these issues interesting, but not pressing. If I understand you correctly, you see this lax attitude as an indication of a crumbling professionalism. I see it as time management. We all can only address so many things in the course of a day. I'll bet we can even find some "important" issues that you sideline.

I don't think that you should take offense at his post, either. I didn't read any disrespect in there.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Gary,

I understand that you felt strongly about these things while on active duty, perhaps if a tool like this board were available to you back then you could have set more of those that proceeded you straight prior to your departure from Active Duty. At this point, I would say your fighting an uphill battle, which is admirable, futile but admirable. And as I already stated, I have bigger battles that I am fighting. For Ex: why alcohol is a part of the CG's culture rather than just something that responsible adults consume responsibly. But I hear you and I totally didn't mean any disrespect by disagreeing with you, it just happens that in this instance I can't disagree with you without you finding it disrespectful. As a leader and a what I consider to be a strong active duty Chief, I am not going to simply agree with you for the sake of sparing your feelings.

Joe,

I like your new avatar, not as much as mine, but I still like it ;). I appreciate the "real job" comparison as you encouraged me to elaborate on my thoughts so that I may remove any misconception that I am one of those, "I have a real jobbers."
I threw my two cents in on the subject which shows that I have put some thought into what is being discussed. I may not have been very wordy in trying to get my point across, but I didn't feel the need. I can definitely see where you would draw the comparison especially when you quote only the sentence you did.
Maybe I should have posted this in the difference between old and new Chiefs, but I see it as more of a difference between AD and Ret Chiefs, which is evident by the last 3* posts. I didn't say it was a bad thing, just identifying what I see as a difference in mind sets.
I spend hours and hours of my day doing my best to develope subordinates and provide good leadership. To date, the subject of CPOA vs CPO A and E10 have never come up. Although I will admit that the Ancient Mariner has, it wasn't a lesson that involved anyone getting cheated out of the award. It was more a case of identifying who was the current one.

* there was another post added while I was typing this one. Thanks for the support Dennis, you read my initial post as I intended it. No disrespect was intended.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

but my work day and daily routine is full of things that I find way more important.

So, I should assume that the pronuciation of MCPON is a very important part of your workday? I'd like to see the rest of your daily routine...

[BMC John Phillips III]

I'd like to see the rest of your daily routine...

Not quite sure how to take that post but I will go against how I initially took it and read it as an unfunny joke.

To which my response would be, if I were stationed in Sewickley PA, I would love to see what my day in Key West, FL was like too. I would post a picture but it would just draw more unnecessary fire from you or your twin brother.

Hopefully you read the post just before yours and drew something worthy from that.

For the record, today started out with an hour of flag football, followed by planning for the D7 Aton Roundup, discussing marks and motivatinig subordinates with the XPO (would have been done sooner but the XPO just returned from leave), lunch with the EPO while picking up an injector for the port engine, agreeing to/and planning towing the target boat for a gun ex tomorrow, reviewing charts with my OPS BM3, discussing painting techniques with another BM3, rounded out by an hour of softball practice with members of the Southern Most's Chiefs Mess. All that before 1500. Yes today was a fruitful and productive day, oh and the weather was a chilling 85 degrees.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I have bigger battles that I am fighting. For Ex: why alcohol is a part of the CG's culture rather than just something that responsible adults consume responsibly.

John, just thought that I would free up more of your workday. Alcohol is not part of Coast Guard Culture, and the Coast Guard already has a policy in place to eliminate the ill effects of alcohol from the workplace. The only people that we keep around are those that consume alcohol responsibly or not at all. Those that can't will be seeking other employment. That should give you enough time to research the fact that Deane's twin in his sister. Saving you some more time....he's three minutes older than her.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Not quite sure how to take that post but I will go against how I initially took it and read it as an unfunny joke.

To which my response would be, if I were stationed in Sewickley PA, I would love to see what my day in Key West, FL was like too. I would post a picture but it would just draw more unnecessary fire from you or your twin brother.

John...you know what I meant.

And, my sister would be offended to be called a brother.

[BMC John Phillips III]

[COLOR="Red"] That should give you enough time to research the fact that Deane's twin in his sister. Saving you some more time....he's three minutes older than her.

and the twin brother chimes in :p

Seriously, I had no idea Deane really had a twin, that's kinda cool.

I won't argue the drinking culture in the CG - not in this thread - it is good to see you towing the company line though.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Not towing the Company line....stating the facts. The Coast Guard has a clear policy on alcohol use.............People in the Coast Guard may set their own agenda.........but that doesn't make it part of the Coast Guard's culture. Lots of people have risen to great heights without ever having a drink. Lots of people have had their career ended by having too many. The Coast Guard's stance is very different from the one that you're claiming they have, and the one you're claiming you're fighting to put an end to. Save you even more time if you realized, you're towing the company line.........People using alcohol responsibly is the company line.......look it up now that you have the free time.

[BMCS Eric Guerette]

Just to fuel the fire a little;
There is a difference between CG culture and CG policy. Policy can try to control the culture, but it doesn't happen over night.
Culture has more to do with the traditions and accepted (even unacceptable) normal behavior.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Wow, culture vs policy. Where is Bill when we need him?

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Culture vs Policy?

I don't see the two together.... Drinking is and has always been a personal responsibility & choice. Obviously the CG has a policy concerning it which must be followed... ya know what, they have a policy of tattoos too... same applies to them...

I've had more than my share of alcoholic beverages.. Never had a DUI or any other offense... my personal responsibility....

Tattoos? Never got one, once again, my personal responsibility & choice... and yes, many of my military buddies had several of them...

So, it that culture or tradition? Really doesn't matter now does it.... :p :p

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I think Eric is correct. The culture of an organization is not defined by its policies. Often times, it is at odds with policy. That might be an interesting thread all by itself-- What exactly is the CG culture?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Gary,
I have to agree with your earlier statement about Chiefs referring to the Academy. The COMDT referred to it as the CPOACAD. The confusion was created by us, and we should end it. I'll refer to our Academy as "Our Academy" or the CPOACAD in the future....... and reserve the CPOA for the Chief Petty Officers Association.