My Space again.........

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I took this from an email I rcvd today. I am not trying to reopen the debate that has been round filed, I am trying to show what is being done by our folks. I would like you to take note of the blurb by legal. I found this very interesting. Antoehr interesting issue is that one of the pictures showed underage drinking with "Senior PO present". This is disturbing as well. It goes against stae law and UCMJ violations. I added the bold text at the end.

If it turns into what the old one was, i will request it be deleted.

"I would like to forward part of something that has come to my attention (from a different State in the CG) and use it as a reminder to us all that we need to reinforce with our personnel that we must live the core values 24 hours a day, and that we are CG members 24 hours a day (even in the "Virtual World").

[During NJP proceedings for a member it was brought up that a CG member (under the age of 21) had posted several pictures on his "My Space" account showing other members of his crew and himself out partying in town. Although it does not show him actually consuming alcoholic beverages, it shows him holding them and more disturbingly senior petty officers (that worked with him) who should have known he was underage standing beside him (in drinking establishments).

A brief follow-up search of "My Space" turned up more than 100 different personal pages of other CG members from that same AOR. Several of these pages have many pictures and content that present serious questions about appropriate conduct and public representation, and appear to demonstrate evident violations of the UCMJ, our Core Values, unsafe/high-risk behavior, violations of civil laws (such as under age drinking), racial or discriminatory overtones and implied illegal drug use, and unsafe (or prohibited) sexual conduct...and some of this questionable content could be prejudicial to "good order and discipline".

CG Legal was consulted and ruled: "anything posted to a public web page or accessed through the internet does not have any expectation of privacy and anything discovered on a web page or you tube video or in the photos can be used as evidence in civil or military legal or administrative proceedings".

If someone has posted something on the internet that is counter to our core values or violation of UCMJ it can (and should be) considered for administrative or UCMJ actions. As disturbing is the possibility that members may be representing photo and video depictions of "high risk behavior" (such as the content contained in the controversial "JACKASS" movies), that could lead to someone getting hurt, and could cause questions whether conduct and resultant injury was "in the line of duty".

If in doubt, members should clean up/sterilize their web pages, and any "you tube" visuals, and seriously reflect upon their actions. Supervisors should counsel and advise their subordinates accordingly about all of the concerns expressed above.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Burt, the "My Space" thread is alive and kicking in the CPO after hours. But as far as that email goes, I don't see anything wrong with it.

One member at a colocated unit that recently got discharged for failing a urinalysis, his myspace page had caricatures of a smurf and dopey (from 7 dwarfs) smoking marijuana. The was another picture where he had a bottle of hard liquor in one hand and a pistol to his head in the other.

I guess if someone had looked at his myspace page ahead of time the urinalysis would have pretty much been a formality.

(his page wasn't looked at until after failing the random urinalysis)

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I took this from an email I rcvd today. I am not trying to reopen the debate that has been round filed, I am trying to show what is being done by our folks.

I was talking about the my space and core values threads. I should have included it there but i mistakingly thought that one was moved too. My apologies........

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If someone has posted something on the internet that is counter to our core values or violation of UCMJ it can (and should be) considered for administrative or UCMJ actions.

John,

I boldfaced the above to illustrate to you that the Core Values are punitive IF they are used for administrative or UCMJ actions, as the author of that email believes. While you personally might not consider the Core Values punitive, this email is part of the overall trend to make them so.

Personally I would never cite the Core Values during a negative administrative action, NJP, or courts martial.

I could be wrongly accusing the Core Values as being punitive if the Officer who wrote that email is receiving brownie points for using the buzz word (Core Values) in their writings. But we will never know that. :)

[BMC John Phillips III]

I could be wrongly accusing the Core Values as being punitive if the Officer who wrote that email is receiving brownie points for using the buzz word (Core Values) in their writings. But we will never know that. :)

As easily as you could be right, you could be wrong. I read it differently, I read it like this:

If someone has posted something on the internet that is counter to our core values or violation of UCMJ it can (and should be) considered for administrative or UCMJ actions.

That "or" and "can" leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Which is something people that use the Core Values incorrectly will do. I explained this in another thread, but sometimes people incorrectly use the words "Core Values" as a catch all, kind of like Art 134. It's poor wordsmithing.

I think that in every case where there is a violation of the UCMJ, there is failure to adhere to the Core Values. Core Values can be adhered to without violating the UCMJ, but you can't violate the UCMJ without falling short of living up the Core Values; that still doesn't make them punitive.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If someone has posted something on the internet that is counter to our core values or violation of UCMJ it can (and should be) considered for administrative or UCMJ actions.

Something counter to the Core Values or violation of UCMJ ... two seperate items ... can and should be considered .... the recommended course of action .... for administrative or UCMJ actions ... the punishment.

It's a good thing the recommended course of action is written in the advisory language and not the mandatory language.

If you failed to heed the advice of the email's author and they were your supervisor ... your would be in a "loss of confidence" situation with that officer, make no mistake about it.

Other than that ... I agree with your analogy of being able to adhere to the requirements of the UCMJ and violate the Core Values while the reverse doesn't hold true.

[BMCS Mike Ellis]

Man, this myspace thing comes up again and again at work. Recently I've overheard several conversations amongst my crew concerning the sometimes controversial content of our folks myspace pages. As a just-turned-thirty BMC, I can still relate to those who use myspace to keep in touch with their friends at home or previous duty stations. I'm also far enough removed from the recent generation of accessions to understand its hazards.

Personally, I have no issues with commands using the information obtained on personal websites to make decisions during official proceedings. Apparently, neither does at least one of our legal offices. The only problem I have is the tendency for some supervisors to overzealously search for any indication that our young folks are in violation of regulations. Now, obviously, each case must be considered separately. If a supervisor reports to me that a member was seen on the web engaged in apparently illegal or dangerous activity, I would certainly follow it up. (But it would have to be while at home, since we've blocked most of these sites on SWS III) However, I don't give a damn if SN Smith (F) and FN Jones (M) were seen online at an event together or linked have their pages linked in their "friends list". We have enough to worry about already.

Education is the key. We have to address this at all hands. If our folks are made aware that there is no such thing as anonimity and that their website content may be viewed and considered by their commands, I'm sure they would censor it's content. Those who don't are the real problems.

I'm glad there was no such thing as myspace when I was a 17yr old non-rate!

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

I think that in every case where there is a violation of the UCMJ, there is failure to adhere to the Core Values. Core Values can be adhered to without violating the UCMJ, but you can't violate the UCMJ without falling short of living up the Core Values; that still doesn't make them punitive.

Look at it like this....and I agree with whoever put it this way (forgive my memory)....if you follow and honor the "Core Values", you'll never be in violation of the UCMJ.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Look at it like this....and I agree with whoever put it this way (forgive my memory)....if you follow and honor the "Core Values", you'll never be in violation of the UCMJ.

I wouldn't use the word never. All it would take is one instance and you'd be proven wrong, but that could be a topic of another thread.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I wouldn't use the word never. All it would take is one instance and you'd be proven wrong, but that could be a topic of another thread.

Joe I half-way agree with you - mostly on principle, but that's a pretty weak argument, you have to admit.

I think what Mike is saying is pretty darn accurate - I would equate what you're saying to "there is an exception to every rule" which ultimately says that you agree with him too.

[MKC D Miller]

Here's one of my own,

I hate to ask, but gotta' know if I'm in left field here or not; please tell me what you think about this kid I've been unable to reach (at work, not on-line).

http://www.myspace.com/mrchristopherrollins

I'll be gone for a week, but thanks for your insight,
Darin

[BMC John Phillips III]

D,

I assume you are saying he's gone AWOL? It says he hasn't logged in since the 30th and his brother was the last person to leave him a msg (shows his brother's last log on was today). I would try to contact the brother to see if he knows what's up.

As far as his profile goes, the only thing I found disturbing was one of the people he wants to meet is Ted Bundy. The Sesame St picture is funny. Good luck.

[BMCS Ross Fowle]

He seems like a normal twenty something year old kid with a healthy taste for the outdoors and bad taste in beer.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I watched another magazine show that talked about employers searching myspace and related sites prior to hiring people. When you list your occupation as a M**F**ing Gangsta and most of your conversations revolve around beer........... how seriously to you want to be taken?