Salute to the Coast Guard Chief at the CG Exchange

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

From a friend of mine that works at the CG Exchange main office. "New Chiefs ball cap for off duty wear to be introduced in a CG exchange near you. A CGES initiative for an annual salute (June 1) to current and newly advanced Chiefs."

I think they look pretty good.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

That is a nice looking hat... I wonder if they are gonna put stars on 'em....
I'm not a hat guy, but I'd get one...

The only problem that will be encountered with them is the... "off duty wear"... I guarantee you... you will see people (Chief's) who should know better, wearing them on their unit, during a work day... :rolleyes:

Wray... :cool:

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Wray, I disagree with you on that one. I think most of the Chiefs would not abuse that, and if they did a fellow chief in their mess would set them stright fast.

I like the hat, but we will probably never see them at our exchange here in Baltimore. They take for ever to get stuff sometimes.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

I live in an area with a huge Navy presence, everytime I see a Navy Chief in civvies with with a Chief hat, shirt, etc it just makes me wish the Coast Guard had something like that. We will finally see it. The Coast Guard is kicking off an annual salute to the Chief promotion at all of the Coast Guard exchanges, sort of like what the Navy does for its new Chiefs. I like the idea and look forward to seeing what I will be able to buy in June.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Wray, I disagree with you on that one. I think most of the Chiefs would not abuse that, and if they did a fellow chief in their mess would set them stright fast.

How come so many Chiefs don't set the ones straight that are wearing the wrong metal insignia on their ball caps now....

(correct size = collar device)
(incorrect size = garrison cap size)

I'd put some cash down on this one.....

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I can't imagine Chiefs wearing this cover in uniform. Maybe some would, but honestly that would surprise me.

It's a nice liberty hat & I like the idea of issuing it to the new Chiefs after the CCTI.

[ITC Matthew Altieri]

Wray, I disagree with you on that one. I think most of the Chiefs would not abuse that, and if they did a fellow chief in their mess would set them stright fast.

I like the hat, but we will probably never see them at our exchange here in Baltimore. They take for ever to get stuff sometimes.

Ron,

If they do magically show up at the Exchange over there, can you let me know. I need to make an Exchange run sometime, and would love to pick one up. Thanks,

Matt

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I wonder if everyone here has a collar device pin on their ball caps.. As I said, far too often I would see the larger, incorrect size used.

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

I've never actually seen anyone wear the larger size on a ball cap. Collar size are the only ones around here.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I wonder if everyone here has a collar device pin on their ball caps.. As I said, far too often I would see the larger, incorrect size used.

I'll admit that I had the inappropriate size on my cover. I've recently changed it out with the correct size. Bruce????

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

Wray,

I've seen Chiefs wear the wrong size as well, and to be honest, I didn't know the larger ones were not authorized until recently. In my opinion, the larger ones look better, but I'll stay within the regs.:rolleyes:

I forgot to mention that I agree as well that they are nice looking hats.

Mike

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

This has been a problem as long as I can remember... It is not a new change, or anything like that.. At Yorktown on any given day, you could find people with the incorrect size on their ball cap... The other problem is that several Chiefs that saw this failed to point it out... Some leadership, huh?

I believe this has gone before the uniform board a few times as well.. They have never wanted to authorize the change.

Like I said, it's all about getting dressed...

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Wray,
Having been stationed at Milford Haven I am aware of the Yorktown issues concerning uniform. Isn't there a PQS for Uniform Police there? Just kidding.........We need that here. Unifroms here are terrible!

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Raymond...Are you saying that this hat will only be available once a year in June?

[BMCS Burt Ford]

FYI, I have never seen these in our exchange.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Raymond...Are you saying that this hat will only be available once a year in June?

The items will be available all year. The reason the kick-off is on 1 June is because most of our Chiefs are advanced on 1 June. We advance all year round, the Navy only once a year. There will also be shorts and t-shirts to start off the campaign. Later on jackets will be available as well.

Someone else asked if the hats are in the stores now. No, not until 1 June.

Another thing the exchanges will be offering is this patch. I have one on the back of my jacket, very cool!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Raymond,
I take it there will be no stars added, huh?

Burt, you weren't at Milford Haven with Ernie Midgette were you?

Wray.. :cool:

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

One more thing about the patch. If you want one now, you can get it through ActionGear.com.

DEFENDERS OF FREEDOM 12" PATCH - TCP0102 $13.99


http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=3084&M5COPY%2Ectx=27686&M5%2Ectx=27686&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Patches%2C%20Identity%2C%20Dog%20T ags&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam&query%2Ectx=embroidered%20patches&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fresults%2Etam

[BMCS Burt Ford]

[QUOTE=BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret);Burt, you weren't at Milford Haven with Ernie Midgette were you?

Wray.. :cool:[/QUOTE]

Wray, We have alot of the same friends. No I was not he left 6 months before I got there. I do know him very well. Met his wife and then him. We did alot of fishing together.

Burt

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

For the what it's worth department, on the miniature size CPO cap device. The device showed up about 1944. The USN authorized a 3/4 version of the cap device for wear with the overseas cap. CG uniform regs followed USN regs, so you could guess that the CG adopted the mini version shortly there after.

Ball caps weren't an official part of the seabag unitl about 1955, and by 1966 pin on versions of the rating badge were worn on the ball cap. I recall CPOs wearing their mini anchor and officers wearing their mini eagle. They were CAP DEVICES for the garrison cap. Collar devices didn't appear until 1959 for Chiefs.

One of the points to look for, as to where the confusion may have originated, might be this excerpt from the 1997 CG uniform regs ( hi-lites added).

"2.F.2.b. Garrison Cap
For chief petty officers E-7 through E-9 and Garrison Cap. MCPO-CG, the device shall consist of the miniature version of the anchor worn on the combination cap approximately l 3/8 inches in length. The device is positioned on the left side of the hat. For enlisted personnel E-4 through E-6, the garrison cap device shall consist of the collar grade rank device. The device is positioned on the left side of the cap. For enlisted personnel E-3 and below the garrison cap device shall consist of the miniature version of the silver and gold Coast Guard medallion, approximately 1 inch in size. The device is positioned on the left side of the cap.

2.F.2.c. Working Blue and Unit Ball Cap Insignia
Working Blue and Unit Ball Cap. The devices worn on the working blue and unit ball cap may be standard metal or embroidered collar insignia. All enlisted personnel E-4 and above shall wear rank/grade collar insignia on the working blue and unit ball cap which is the same as the garrison cap. For enlisted personnel E-3 and below, the device shall consist of the silver and gold medallion, approximately 1 inch in length, which is also worn on the garrison hat. "

There is a possible starting point for the confusion about the size of the insignia. The italic,underlined word collar is the contradiction. For E-4 to E-6 the garrison cap insignia is the collar device, but for CPOs the rank/grade insignia is the garrison cap device, which is not a collar device. Any way, by the 2003 edition it somehow got translated to collar device. If anyone has an earlier version of the uniform regs, further research might be interesting. 1976 might be the year, thats when the present uniform became mandatory.

So then a cap device, that is meant for a cap has been replaced by a collar device.

Working on a few tidbits concerning the officers cap device.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

Very good looking ball cap, by the way.

Looking through older photos, the ball cap device seemed to run the gamut of everything up through the very late 80s. If anyone is interested in when a device was finally specified, I'd guess that about the time frame when CG and unit ball caps went as an optional item with the tropical blue uniform that something had to be prescribed,

Unitll 1988 , I recall the only caps worn with trops were the combination and garrison cap. Sometime between then and 1997 those ball caps went optional aboard cutters and small boats. That would be a likely start point.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

A last little tidbit, on when the change to the rank device being worn on the ball cap versus the various cap devices, which belong on a cap.

Found an article by an Auxiliarist in the 7th District about the Auxiliary uniform history. One of the dates mentioned was summer of 1990, when the Aux was to shift to wearing "collar" size rank devices on the ball cap.

It would stand to reason that they were just following changes in Coast Guard uniform regs. So a stab at when the change originated would be with the change of Commandants in 1990. As far as the differing sizes of cap device, probably typo errors in updating the regs from the 1990 time, to the 1997, to the 2003.

As one Chief mentioned in another thread, he'd like to see the next uniform board have the miniature CAP device re-authorized. Return it to its original purpose, versus a collar device mis-used on a cap.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

Morning coffee is kicking in, just a little late to edit the above post.

Just supposition, but, you could imagine the regs reading along these lines, at least as far as the enlisted working stiffs goes, the "O" side was stuck with the collar size. ;

1990 - Rank or grade device worn on the garrison cap to be placed ---

1997 - E-4 and above to wear collar devices the same as on the garrison cap-- the CPO miniature device has the appearance of a collar device but it is a different size and name.

2003 - E-4 and above to wear collar devices ----

Sorry to hi-jack the original intent of this topic, good day.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Dana,
The collar device has been on the ball cap, or, was supposed to be on the ball cap as long as I can remember.. Well before the 1990 date...

Does it really matter?

Wray... :cool:

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

Wray

Not one little bit anymore. It is/was just one of those tiny bits of trivia type information that got my curiosity going, and wanted to see how far back it could be traced. Just kind of a semi hobby.

The tough part is there isn't really a whole lot of CG past information online. It's almost like you'd have to make the pilgramage to D.C. to dig it out, and I'd probably opt for a root canal than head in that direction.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

I like the hat on the left with the "US Coast Guard Chief" on it as opposed to the one with just the Anchor.

Jayare

[BMCS Nick Pupo]

Wray, you really scare me! Was Earnie Midgette the same one who at his CofC his crew gave him a putter?
If so I was there while on TACKLE, with Red Davis and Steve Hearn.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Nick,
Ernie wasn't on Tackle, Don Midgett was.... Not sure about the putter.... been to too many CoC's to remember gifts... hard enough remembering my own... ;)

Ernie was at Milford Haven... at the end of his career.....

Wray... :cool:
P.S. What brought that up?

[BMCS Nick Pupo]

Wray,
You mentinoned Ernie and right after I got on TACKLE, we attended a CofC at Milford Haven. It's been a while but I believe it was for him, this would have been in the summer of 90'. Thats it.
Nick

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Yes Deane, I still wear the larger one on my ball cap. I keep sending that recommendation to the Uniform Board and they keep rejecting it. I still consider it a test case on mine. Maybe I'll manage to get to sit on the board this year after I get to Cape May and see if we can push it through finally.

Hopefully Wary doesn't blast me too bad for it. But I'm with him on the question of stars on the hat.

[MSTC SJ Natale]

I'll admit that I had the inappropriate size on my cover. I've recently changed it out with the correct size. Bruce????

I had it the oppposite way, I was wearing a collar device on my Garrison..:eek:

Changed that out in a hurry.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Yes Deane, I still wear the larger one on my ball cap.

Bruce.. are you ready for that BLAST??? Her it comes..............

Yes, I hate to tell ya, but, I think you are doing the wrong thing by wearing & knowing you are wearing the incorrect size insignia on your hat.. What kind of signal are you sending to the troops? What about to your supervisors? They may have to correct you, hense, making you look like you didn't know better.. The "test case on mine" also sends a poor signal... we all know now that you are basically just ignoring the proper uniform regulations... You know as well as I do, many junior people will talk behind your back if they see you wearing the wrong size device.. they will be talking behind your back, and I'm sure you don't what that....

My opinion,...... put on the correct size, and continue to submit your recommendations to HQ for a size change....

As for the hat.... I never got an answer on that one...

Wray... :cool:

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

I, (Insert name), do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Nuff Said.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Wray,

The unfortunate thing is that the junior personnel don't always read the Uniform Manual and don't know any better themselves.

It torques me off to no end to see Chiefs with incorrect uniform items.

We are not one man uniform board test subjects here -- We are Chiefs and we better be setting a good example.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Steve, that is exactly my point....

Wray...:cool:

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Coming VERY soon to an Exchange near you. (I love the shirt, very cool!!)

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I wish they had those with "stars" on them, but I doubt they will...

Wray... :cool:

[BMC Gene Daigle]

I have to say that after I was blasted on another post about uniform items by the same person who is going against "Known" and written policy, I am a bit disappointed. The Hot WX uniform issue was brought up and members said I had to adhere to the message because it was policy. And yet those same members than become hypocrites by "Choosing" intentionally which standards to follow and which ones they will disregard. This is the military and we don't have that luxary. I am a believer of follow ALL policy and hold the standard, or just don't say anything at all. Remember, if you don't pay attention to the little things, someone will die. We have seen that in the past year. Follow the standard and hold those to that same HIGH Standard and never waiver.