Double Punishment

[ETC John D Zidek]

If you have a member that gets picked up for a DWI by the local PD and your command is notified by LantArea of said arrest.

Do you leave it in the hands of the civilian authorities as long as the member makes bail and doesn't miss any work?
or
Do we fill out the 4910 and let the skipper sort it out?
Or
Option 3 wait until the Civilian courts are finished with him, then NJP him so he gets punished twice?

Can you tell what kind of day I have had?

"Z"

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Chapter 20 PERSMAN Z. Incedent and screening. Loss of good conduct.

Careful about NJP. Lawyers dont like it. You cant take him to Mast for DUI but you can for Failure to Obey and order.

[BMC John Phillips III]

John, I just received an email on this a few weeks ago, I will send it to you if I can find it tomorrow. Hope that helps. The jist of it was that you should not impose punishment if it goes to criminal court.

[ETC John D Zidek]

Thank you both.
I will keep my eyes open for it.

"Z"

[ETC Brian Strattard]

Z,

PERSMAN 8.B.1.1-4 - (Civil arrest and conviction) - Refer to Group level or above for administrative requirements.

PERSMAN 20.A.4.e - Reports and documentation required when Coast Guard military personnel are involved with a DUI.
a. Report of Civil Arrest: A report of civil arrest and subsequent civil action is required for all military members in accordance with ø Chapter 8. (when civil authorities will tkae more than a few days to resolve the issue, multiple reports along with a final report are required.)
b. Notification of Restriction: A notification of restriction must be made and acknowledged in writing whenever a person’s driving privileges are restricted. This notification must meet the requirements in ø Article 20.A.4.d.4
c. Performance Evaluations:
(1) Enlisted Members: A special Enlisted Performance Evaluation to reflect a civil conviction, a military conviction, or the award of non-judicial punishment for occurrences of DUI is required by ø Section 10.B. Alcohol incidents must
also be documented in the member’s PDR per ø Article 20.B.2.

Definately bring in unit CDAR to ensure proper documentation is reported as per ch.20. Hope this helps???

Strat sends...

[ETC Brian Strattard]

CG policy as per PERSMAN :

8.B.4.a. Coast Guard Policy
Coast Guard policy is against trial by court-martial (or NJP in MJM) for the same act(s) for which a member has already been tried by a state or foreign country; see ☛ the Military Justice Manual, COMDTINST 5810.1 (series), Article 2-B-4.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Z, go right thru Chapter 20. Regardless of any NJP action, there are still other things that the member is going to get "punished" with, like the loss of base driving privledges.
One of the things that would factor into my decision of your three choices would be why I'm getting the call from LANTAREA.
Of the three, I'd always lean towards #2, but that goes by what was already mentioned........it's not about the DUI, it's about failure to obey.
I'd never opt for #3. If you wait for the Civilian authorities to finish up and then impose something else.....it looks like you don't think the person got enough.

[ETC John D Zidek]

Thanks Guys

This should be a great Monday. :mad:

"Z"

[CWO4 Tim Hecht (SKC) (Ret)]

CDAR (and drunk) unless the member is UA or some other violation of the UCMJ is present then the court system will mete out appropriate punishment for the DUI and the Coast Guard will take an administrative action (i.e. - Alcohol Incident, etc.) I've never seen a mast for a DUI out in town but have seen Alcohol Incidents made out of them.

[AMTCM John Long]

What I have seen two different wise O6 CO's do is......

1. Talk to D Legal and get guidance.
2. Wait till the civilian process has been adjudicated.

If member goes to court, pleads not guilty, proves it and wins, that will effect the path the CO will take. Much of it will depend on the circumstances surrounding the event.

Let us know how it played out....

John

[PACS Steve Carleton]

You can also start an Admin Investigation into the circumstances of the incident to determine if UCMJ violations occurred. This gets witness statements, police reports, etc. in your hands, and gives you a complete picture prior to making a determination.

Then you can sit on the report until after the civilian courts ajudicate the matter.

[ETC John D Zidek]

He had his meeting with the command today. His Chief is back from leave so he took over.
Here is some info we found out today.

The member went out Saturday night, realized he had to much to drink and couldn't drive, spent the night where he was. (Did exactly what we tell them to do) He got up early to drive home and was stopped and given a breath test at 0700. He Blew 0.9, in VA the legal limit is .08 If he had slept for another hour or so he would have been fine.

I will let you know how things turn out. I am curious to find out myself. He tried to do the right thing, just came up short.

"Z"

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Z,
He didn't "come up short" , and I really hope he didn't do what you asked (remember he was caught while driving drunk...). Yes it's a good thing that he decided to spend the night where ever he did instead of driving, but he drove drunk the next morning. He recklessly risked his life and everyone who was on the road. Saying he came up short is akin to making an excuse for him (that's how I see it), and I know your not doing that. With the rash of AI's and DUI's, I think we need to take a tougher stance and hold the offender 100% accountable for their actions.

Craig

[ETC Brian Strattard]

The member still blew a 0.09 the next morning??? Either the member did not stop drinking til the early morning hours or they had WAY to many drinks that night...The rate of elimination in the average person is commonly estimated at .015 to .020 percent per hour...Either way, there is a serious lack of judgement involved...even if the intentions were noble...

Strat sends...

[ETC John D Zidek]

Sorry Craig That was badly worded. Should have said he tried to do the right thing, just did't try hard enough.

What's that old saying about what the road to hell is paved with?

What he did was wrong and he has received he 4910 for it. I want to make sure that all of our junior folks are aware that just going to bed isnt enough. They need time for their bodies to process and eliminate all the alcohol consumed. I know that this PO will be an example of right things done wrong for awhile.

"Z"

[ETC John D Zidek]

It looks like he will be getting an alcohol incident and screened by the CDAR (and whatever else the CDAR says he needs) from our end Plus whatever the Local Courts give him.

"Z"