How are new Weapons Officers trained today?

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

The old routine of getting a new WepsOff (we used to call them Gunnery Officers) every summer is probably still the norm. I'd like to hear how they are trained once they come aboard to do the job.

[GMC Larry Muldowney]

Bill,
These are two different questions in one. A WEPO on a WMEC is different the one on a WHEC. The WEPO say on a 270 is a division officer and a WEPO on a 378 is a Dept Head. So I will address both to the best of my ability.

On a 270 the WEPO job is usually rotated every spring when the new ENSIGNS come to the ship. They are trained in the most part by the LPO's of the GM's and the Tactical ET's if they are under him/her. I have always provided them with a copy of the ORD MAN and showed them the section that deals with the relief of a WEPO. I also give them Chapter 2 of the P-724 (ATR's and Milstrips). If they have good First classes then they will do well. On a 378's they still have gunno and they are trained by the GMC on board.

On our ship (CGC BERTHOLF) I just got a brand new ENS in as the GUNNO. With in the first 10 minutes of meeting him I gave hem the above chapter and the Operator's Manual of the 57mm and asked him to read it and learn both. I also suggested he read the ORD Man. During te same conversation I suggest he look into teh GUNNO school the Navy used to have. This is the bases for Starting out. So as time goes on I will help him with the brief's that we have to do and the proper way of doing his job.

Hope I helped,
Larry

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Larry,

I took a two prong attack.

I'd coordinate with his schedule (they do have other things to learn) and have him do PMS with one of my petty officers in the morning. He would, over time, do nearly everything in the PMS cycle.

He'd spend the afternoon with me learning administration. During this time I'd teach him the politics of protecting his division. I taught them all one their most important jobs was to remain in the wardroom and listen.

Most were pretty good people. All but two retired captains. One never made LT and the other resigned to go into private business. One thing that helped was the CO and XO let all the Chiefs add separate comments to their fitness reports. It was amazing how their attention span extended when they found out their chiefs were in the loop.

I liked working with them. I felt it was my role to provide the Coast Guard with a well trained officer for the future.

[ETC Brian Strattard]

Bill,

Why were you teaching politics to the officers? I learned from someone far wise than me:

The UCMJ, MCM, and CG Regulations outline what is expected

So unless politics are specifically described in detail there is no reason to teach it...kinda like values or ethics...That is what is wrong with the CG today right. I'll play the teacher/devils-advocate for this one...please show me in specific detail where politics are described for a CPO to teach a JO. Just pretend that I just joined the service and don't know anything about it yet.;)

V/R,
Strat sends...

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Bill,

Why were you teaching politics to the officers? I learned from someone far wise than me:



So unless politics are specifically described in detail there is no reason to teach it...kinda like values or ethics...That is what is wrong with the CG today right. I'll play the teacher/devils-advocate for this one...please show me in specific detail where politics are described for a CPO to teach a JO. Just pretend that I just joined the service and don't know anything about it yet.;)

V/R,
Strat sends...

If a new JO does not learn shipboard and CG politics from his chief how will he learn it correctly? The currculum comes from experience. Have you never had the talk with a JO? If not, you may need to learn.

[ETC Brian Strattard]

In this case I am the less informed and have asked those "in the know" to bring me up to speed.

Do people really know what they (politics) are? Is this why there is no firm definition?

The point is why were the (politics) needed at all? Was this discussed or was (some) work group told to come up with some attributes?

besides if they are really needed other than some corporate management system says they are, would be; Just who is served by the (politics)? Are they not just more extra-regulatory factors of organizational control?

If the (politics) have any meaning for the Coast Guard please tell us what it is.

The UCMJ, MCM, and CG Regulations outline what is expected -- so does the Service motto. If people are stuggling with (political) questions then the (UCMJ, MCM, and CG regulations) are not working???

Shouldn't officers be directing political theory instead of leaving it up to lower levels???

What were the politics??? No one has defined them yet.

Can a specific description of the politics required to protect a division be found???

Am I learning how to argue better??? ;)

Strat sends...

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

In this case I am the less informed and have asked those "in the know" to bring me up to speed.

Do people really know what they (politics) are? Is this why there is no firm definition?

The point is why were the (politics) needed at all? Was this discussed or was (some) work group told to come up with some attributes?

besides if they are really needed other than some corporate management system says they are, would be; Just who is served by the (politics)? Are they not just more extra-regulatory factors of organizational control?

If the (politics) have any meaning for the Coast Guard please tell us what it is.

The UCMJ, MCM, and CG Regulations outline what is expected -- so does the Service motto. If people are stuggling with (political) questions then the (UCMJ, MCM, and CG regulations) are not working???

Shouldn't officers be directing political theory instead of leaving it up to lower levels???

What were the politics??? No one has defined them yet.

Can a specific description of the politics required to protect a division be found???

Am I learning how to argue better??? ;)

Strat sends...

:D

Awesome!!!!

[ETC Brian Strattard]

Pat,

I figured that Bill couldn't argue with me if I used his own sentences...then it would be arguing with onesself and that would be crazy...(Note: that doesn't apply to me since I have yet to be accused of being sane:D )

Strat sends...

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Oh he'll argue with you. Or is that debate. It never seems clear to me. I think I wouldn't respond to him directly anymore. If I see something the is posted that I feel is wrong I'll just post as if I'm posting to everyone.

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Pat,

I figured that Bill couldn't argue with me if I used his own sentences...then it would be arguing with onesself and that would be crazy...(Note: that doesn't apply to me since I have yet to be accused of being sane:D )

Strat sends...

Why are you hijacking this topic? How many weapons officers have trained?

As for the questions, you as a chief should be able to answer them. I am amazed you asked them of this topic anyway. Have you no shipboard experience?

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Brian
Look what I found.

Irony
4 entries found.

ironydramatic ironySocratic ironytragic irony

Main Entry: iro·ny
Pronunciation: \ˈī-rə-nē also ˈī(-ə)r-nē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirōnia, from eirōn dissembler
Date: 1502
1: a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony
2 a: the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b: a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c: an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1): incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2): an event or result marked by such incongruity b: incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony tragic irony
synonyms see wit

:rolleyes:

[ETC Brian Strattard]

Bill,

I am just playing devils advocate...and I technically did not ask those questions...I just reposted ones you have asked except changed "Core Values" to "politics"...But when you answered as you did (as everyone else has answered your questions to Core Values) you did it in the same manner as everyone else had answered you...and they were always wrong...soooooo....by default...are you wrong on this one??? Now I'm really confused...:D

***I am always right...I just give misinformation sometimes to see if anyone is paying attention...:eek:

Strat sends...