07 BOSN Selects..Where ya heading?

[BMC Robert Ornelas]

** Enquiring Minds Want To Know..I Want to Know **

I know where a couple of you are heading; What about the rest?

Sta Gloucester (Gloss-TA)- Chris Sparkman
LANT Enforcement Branch-
CGC Munro-
CGC Jarvis-
CGC Chase-
CGC Morgentau-
CGC Boutwell-
CGC Spar-
MSST New York-
MSST Boston-
D1 Aux-
D8 Aux-
Pac Strike Team-
ISC Ketch-
Yard Mil Support-

Any new choices offered or anyone turning it down?

Cheers

Rob :cool:

[BMC Ronald Simoneau]

The XPO at Station Gloucester got MSST Boston, I don't think he's a member here though.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The OinC from the Station down here took the D1 AUX job at the Battery in NYC.

[CWO Jay Greiner (BMC)]

I was number 10 and I took the MSST NY job!

Jay Greiner

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Rob, I'm curious about something I've been hearing. Is it true that people above the predictor had their current billets shopped out from under them ? I could understand if they shopped the billets of the people above the cut, but the predictor? I really can't see 30 people turning down Warrant.

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Stu,
Not sure about the BOSN folks, but if you were in the predictor, but not above the cut in the ENG, your job was going to be shopped unless you dropped from the running for warrant. I received the email from CWO Chiaino, the MK West Detailer along with all of the others in the "predicted zone". It wouldn't really affect you if you were tour complete because your billet was being shopped already, but for those who weren't tour complete, its a pretty nerve racking thing.

Craig

[BMC Robert Ornelas]

Stu

Don't know to much about it; about the same or less than you.. kind of in an episode of Twilight Zone out here in the UK :eek:

Cheers

Rob :cool:

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'm not liking that idea. There's a huge potential for abuse. Say you don't like the area that you're in. You put in for Warrant even though you have no desire to actually compete. They shop your job out from under you and then when your number comes up, you turn in down and transfer somewhere else as a Chief.
Now as far as those who are guaranteed to make it, I get the reasoning.

If this is the way things will be done for future lists they need to come up with more accurate predictors.

[BMC Robert Ornelas]

Stu

I hear you.. I think I read something to line that if your predicted and they move you as a Chief.. and you make W2 after you get to your new assignment they'll TRY and keep you in the same area to save on hardship.

Anyone else read this somewhere.

Cheers

Rob :cool:

[BMC John Phillips III]

Not sure about the BOSN folks, but if you were in the predictor, but not above the cut in the ENG, your job was going to be shopped unless you dropped from the running for warrant.

That's what they did to the BM's too.

From what I was told (very reliable source) this was done to eliminate having to fill critical billets last minute. It was also to put the ball back in the assignment officers' court.

Warrant is the only position where you have a choice of accepting orders and realistically, accepting orders is an oxymoron. Think about it.

Is what they did this year the best option? Well with the predictor being 45 and only 15 or 17 jobs or whatever it was, I say no. In fact, I think that's a waste of money, but I think that if they continue to do it this way (and this is opposite of BMCM Slesh's thinking) that less people will put in for warrant knowing they will have to leave the billet they are in if they do not "accept" what they are offered for Warrant.

Someone already posted the email from an Assignment Officer on this site that pretty much spells it out.

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

John,
Your spot on for the reasoning. They didn't want to fill all of the EPO jobs with qualified personnel, then someone accept warrant and not have a qualified bodyfor the job. I guess it's easier if they shop everyones billet, because they know they have to fill those. I know I posted the email here somewhere, but couldn't find it.

Craig

[BMC Trent Spiroff]

For openers, I Congratulate those that were offered a CWO assingment.

I'm number 34 on the BOSN list. I arrive in Annapolis summer 06'. Once I moved above the predictor, my job was shopped and filled. My relief is ordered in, and I'm left jobless wondering what's in store.

I've talked to the AO's. They were just as surprised. I know they're working up a plan and I suspect we'll hear something in the next couple of weeks.

It was a roll of the dice. I personally was on the fence which way to go. I wanted both. I thouroughly enjoy doing what I'm doing and I gave up an awesome job for the opportunity to go CWO. It's frustrating that several of us have been short toured because someone thought we'd be advanced. Recent history, the CG has made near or exceeded the predictor, I can understand why EPM did what they did. If they waited, where would they find enough qualified candidates this time of year to fill some of the positions that can't go unfilled?

RILO's - I can't imagine to many CWO's retiring this year with the pay raises. CWO's will see about a 10% pay raise between this year and next. I expect next year will be a big year for CWO retirements.

My new question is, if for some reason, they find another 20-30 jobs, what will happen after we move to our new enlisted assignment, and OPM comes knocking on the door?

I'm staying positive, I'm sure it's going to work out for the best.

Hopefully, the process will be tweaked so as not to allow this to happen again. I'm sure it's costing alot money to move people that turns out don't have to move. In addition to moving cost, all the new advancments that were affected to backfill the enlisted's going to CWO.

T.S.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The same logic about transferring everyone below the predictor being able to determine who really wants to go for Warrant could be applied to the SWE. If you apply for Warrant you can't take the test later that same year. It's crap. The cut is the guarantee, the predictor means, or rather meant, absolutely nothing. If this becomes the new way of doing business we're only weakening the field to pick from. Someone better suited for the job might not apply while they're in a billet that they enjoy. Others might apply just to get out of ones that they don't.
look at it from this perspective,........ if people with something to lose opt not to take the chance, people with nothing to lose will be given the opportunity to compete.

[BMC John Phillips III]

The same logic about transferring everyone below the predictor being able to determine who really wants to go for Warrant could be applied to the SWE. If you apply for Warrant you can't take the test later that same year. It's crap. The cut is the guarantee, the predictor means
I am pretty sure the cut and predictor do not come out before May, so restricting those that apply for Warrant from the SWE would be unfair (right? I know life's not fair).

If this becomes the new way of doing business we're only weakening the field to pick from. Someone better suited for the job might not apply while they're in a billet that they enjoy.
I am pretty certain that is happening now at all levels. I mean how many 1st and 2nd Classes have you seen that do not compete for advancement because they like it where they are (I know an MK2 and a BM2 each with almost 20 years in).

Others might apply just to get out of ones that they don't.
look at it from this perspective,........ if people with something to lose opt not to take the chance, people with nothing to lose will be given the opportunity to compete.
I would argue (although I am not thoroughly convinced myself) that the process is designed to weed out the applicants you just described. From Command recommendation and eligibility scores to OER's. Just a thought, I do hear what you are saying.

I think the destination in which we are heading is the right one, but I think we rushed to pull it off this season and didn't get a great plan in place prior to execution, we probably should have got out of the car and asked for directions on how to get there (i.e. asked the Chiefs how we could do this). Everyone below the predictor should not have to transfer. I am still not sure if that's what they did or if they only filled the spots for applicants that are in key positions (like OIC, XPO, EPO). An easy way to alleviate this in my mind would be to change the timelines for appointment. Get all your CWO promotions done before they start working on the other orders. To me it's kind of like when we marked E2's a month before E3's. They switched that around easy enough. Change the timelines for Warrant, then you won't have to worry about filling critical billets out of season. Maybe I picked up part of that "over-simplification" habit you have Master Chief. What do you think?

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Stu/Brent/John,
Here's another little twist if your in the predictor zone. Yes your job is shopped, but your not transferring... . It seems there is a policy/law/rule that you can not receive orders from EPM and OPM in the same year (I don't buy it, because I have seen people receive both and no one can show me it in writing...). I've been told that I will be involuntarily extended out here, at an isolated duty billet, until I'm either picked up for warrant or drop my name from the running. Now they may get to my name before I'm do to rotate and I'll leave on time, if not it's time to make a big decision...

Craig

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Craig, I don't understand what you're saying. If they shop your job and you don't transfer.....what do they do with you?

John, resticting someone from the SWE who is eligible is always unfair. Shopping someone's job and then not reaching their name is also unfair. If they aren't guaranteeing them Warrant, I don't understand why they would take their current billet away from them.
If they shop your job to someone, and then don't ascend you to Warrant,....who gets your billet? If you lose your current billet, simply because you placed high enough, yet not really high enough, on the Warrant list, it seems to me a bit of a burden on the member, their family, the unit, and the service as a whole.

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Stu,
You stay at your currently assigned unit until they make you a warrant or decide that your not going to make it and then transfer you. I'll be relieved of my EPO duties the first week of May. I asked how long are they (EPM)talking about me staying here, June or July and the reply was "could be". I can't imagine it would be a good thing for an OinC to get relieved but still be hanging around the station two months later...

I'll tell you one thing though, if I'm still here in June or July, I'll be slaying some serious fish... The one thing that concerned me though was that 21 people are in the cut zone, but only 20 jobs were offered. I'm guessing that a lot more people turn down warrant than what I thought would.

Craig

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Criag, I think that they're applying old logic. In the past more people could have afforded to turn down Warrant. If you didn't like the picks that you had to choose from, turn it down and stay where you are. If that's no longer an option.......? And the pay raise this year made almost any Warrant billet at least semi-desireable........

[BMC John Phillips III]

Craig, I don't understand what you're saying. If they shop your job and you don't transfer.....what do they do with you?

John, resticting someone from the SWE who is eligible is always unfair. Shopping someone's job and then not reaching their name is also unfair. If they aren't guaranteeing them Warrant, I don't understand why they would take their current billet away from them.
If they shop your job to someone, and then don't ascend you to Warrant,....who gets your billet? If you lose your current billet, simply because you placed high enough, yet not really high enough, on the Warrant list, it seems to me a bit of a burden on the member, their family, the unit, and the service as a whole.

I totally agree with you, which is why I believe a simple solution would be to get the warrant assignments done well ahead of the Enlisted assignments. Then you got that all ironed out, you know exactly what billets you will have to fill due to people making warrant. Why must we make warrants on June 1?

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

While I like the option of turning it down (I did when my number came up attached to a job that I didn't want), I think it is not good from a business perspective. I think the member needs to make a decision if they want to be a CWO or not. If they do, then they get what they get. Orders are orders not invitations. We have lost sight of that.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

"I think the member needs to make a decision if they want to be a CWO or not."

A very good observation. Prior to the very early 1990s??, passing the Warrant Officer Selection Battery (WOSB) had a big impact on whether one got into the appointment process. The exam entailed a morning and afternoon session of about 3 or 4 subject fields.

Coming about 2 months after the Sept SWE many Chiefs, especially those with 3 years TIG ( then required for E-8 ) , would make the decision after the SWE as to go for the Warrant Exam. If you had a good feeling about the E-8 exam, you wouldn't run a chit to participate in the WOSB.

Personally, I waited until 6 years TIG, 3 E-8 SWEs, watched the slow progression up the advancement list each year, not quite making the cut. At year 6, decided that E-8 most likely wouldn't come for another year or two, so put in for the Warrant Exam.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jim, you and I were alot alike in the sense that we both put in for and then turned it down. That should make us both more understanding as to why someone would apply even if they still weren't sure if that was the best route for them.
I don't have a problem with the CG looking for ways to ensure the people applying really want it. I just have an issue with people losing their current billet just because they didn't place high enough on the list to actually make it.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I agree with you 100% on that Stu. Above the cut, shop the job. Below the cut, cross your fingers. The folks at HQ need to figure out a way to better serve those in the fleet. Transferring someone because they may or may not make CWO is not a good way to do business.

[OSC Chris Westerdahl]

Not a BOSN but my situation is one of interest. I was set to transfer this year and slated for orders to Yorktown as a Chief OS. Well an update to the list comes out and I am now the predictor for OSS. My orders were cancelled. And my billet transferred down to Sec HR to be filled by an incoming 8. So basically I have no job maybe for a short time or possibly for up to a year. That means if I don't make it off this list it will be near impossible to compete again if I spent a year with no job. :eek: