Subscription

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

As I indicated in another thread, I believe it's time for the board to start generating some income to cover fees, technical help, stipends for the those running the board, and some income for the board's originator/owner (me). I know that last part is a bit presumptuous, but this is the unvarnished truth after all.

I propose this:

1. Upon registration, there will be a 30 day trial period, after which you must either subscribe to the board, or be put into a user group that will not permit you to post.

2. We'll charge a $24 per year subscription fee for those that choose to post to the board.

3. Viewing the board will not depend upon subscribing to it. In other words, anyone will still be able to read all of the posts. However, only subscribers will be able to add posts.

4. Board membership will still be limited to Chiefs (in all their various forms).

5. The password protected forum will still remain protected.


I'll also pledge to donate 25% of whatever is collected this first year back to the subscribers to do with as you see fit. At current numbers with full or near full participation, you could be looking at upwards of $4000. If the board continues to do well, I'll make similar commitments every year. That kind of income could be put to good use in a lot of different ways.

OK, tell me what you think and please vote in the poll.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I voted yes.

Dennis, so that we're all clear on cost associated with the site...can you give us a rundown of what you pay and have to pay to keep the site running? Also, what upgrades/new stuff would we benefit from by paying a subscription fee? How did you come up with $24? And, how would we pay?

Thanks. This info might help people make a good decision before voting.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Absolutely Dennis. What I get from the site is well worth $24.00.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Reoccuring fees run about $200 per year. They rise as more space and bandwith is needed on the server (I barely know what that means).

Tech support is going to be the big expense. I get it on an as-needed basis now, but if we are going to start charging people money, it will need to be more readily available for maintenance as well as troubleshooting. Typically, the techs charge $50 per hour.

I'd like to use income from the discussion board to build the web sites up.
http://cgchiefs.com/
http://cgchiefs.com/ourcoastguard/

I can also install software for photo-hosting, blogging, classified ads, etc..

But the biggest advantage that I see is the 25% donation back to the board. It could be used for scholarships, needy CG families, morale purchases, etc..

Where did I get the $24? $2 per month seemed to an amount that would be affordable to everyone and still provide enough income to do the things I envision.

There would be a Paypal button added to the board to facilitate payment.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

As Dennis expands the services offered and wishes to market the sites a litle more, the marketing can increase costs with the pay-per-click features at yahoo, google, and msn. You'll recognize these as the "sponsored" ads you see everywhere.

Very few sites have retained no sponsored advertising. Some sites go overboard with advertising. Even the forums at military.com place sponsored ads at the top and bottom of each thread in the forum as a means to generate funds.

Dennis could offer a Savings Bond [or cash] for the best written article on a monthly basis. I don't mean our comments in a thread but a contest that could be open to all or restricted to E-6 and below.

I guess what I'm looking for is more inline with his total concept and anticipated budget ... damm, starting to sound like a business plan. Sorry for the rambling.

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

Dennis:

So long as you keep the you gotta use your own name feature, I'll support you! I'm standing by to subscribe!

Thanks for what you do!

Doug

[AMTCM John Long]

Dennis,

A couple of thoughts.

1. I have mixed views on paying for using websites (any site). I guess I'm a cheap person and lean towards a free internet. I'll speculate you have considered having the CG/MWR, CPOA, CG Foundation (a grant), The Evergreen Fund(??), etc donate some money to help offset expenses. You didn't want to do that because it might incur some sort of obligation or editorial restriction. However, if you would like to (re)consider seeking funding in this manner, give me a call/email at work (202-372-2220). Maybe I can do some legwork for you from the HQ end. I'm in close proximity to MWR and the CPOA. I have no problem hitting up the CG Foundation either.

2. As you might already know, the MCPOCG has on his agenda plans to create a CG intratnet site. If that comes to life this year, that might pose a problem for this site in 2 years once everyone sees they can get the same product on the CG's dime.

3. I like the site quite a bit and have no problem supporting it in some fashion.

4. Kudos for being upfront about your agenda.

Let me know about #1 above.....John

[ETC John D Zidek]

I am willing to pay the $24 a year if it keeps the site sponser free. I hate pop-ups and dont want to have to search for content around ads.

I ran my own Internet Radio station for awhile and in the end I shut it down because I refuse to use it as a money making venture, and it was costing me too much money.....oh that and the royality people were starting to harass me for not sending them money.

I hate to see us lose what you have created when we could have saved it for the cost of one trip to McDonalds a year (Damn my boys eat alot).

My wife has a few websites she runs and she uses NetFirms. Here's a link
http://www.netfirms.com/web-hosting/web-hosting-compare/

Jim O Ferris hooked us up when we revamped the Yorktown CPOA Site. He is a Former Chief. He works with www.netapps.com. You can find him in Global if you have techno babble questions.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

As I said earlier, I voted Yes. I wouldn't have a problem paying $24 to subscribe to the site. But, I don't think that there will be enough support in favor of it. I think that the majority of the active members will vote yes and the majority of the inactive members will vote no or not vote at all (which is more likely to happen). I don't think that there are enough active members of the board to make a subsription service a good option.

I started looking at the membership numbers on the board and here is the breakdown:

- There are currently 734 members
- Out of those 734 members, 432 have never posted
- Only 34 members have more than 100 posts
- Only 57 members have more than 50 posts
- Only 122 members have more than 10 posts

With these numbers, I just can't see a subscription service working. Dennis...maybe you could have a (as needed) fund drive? You could keep the money in an account and use it until it's gone (or nearly gone) and then have another fund drive. I would donate and I'm sure that all of the yes votes and some of the no votes would also. I think more people might support a fund drive vice a subscription.

[ETC John D Zidek]

Master Chief Long,
Is anything free on the CGs dime? will people be as open about their opinions if the site is run and managed by non-Chiefs? Worried about reprocussions? I dont know. Maybe some of our topics would not be here if this was a CG Run site.

CYA means alot more to some then others.

All I'm saying is if it's free (CGs Dime) will we get what we pay for or what we have now?

Dennis when do you need the money and where do we send it?

John

[AMTCM John Long]

With these numbers, I just can't see a subscription service working. Dennis...maybe you could have a (as needed) fund drive? You could keep the money in an account and use it until it's gone (or nearly gone) and then have another fund drive. I would donate and I'm sure that all of the yes votes and some of the no votes would also. I think more people might support a fund drive vice a subscription.

That's a good idea. Maybe some as-needed fundraisers or maybe folks could donate some items for Ebaying.

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

Dennis

I'm still in. When you are rready, let me know. I'll throw some cash in either through a subscription, or a donation or what-ever. I'd hate to see a little cash cause us to lose this board.

By far superior to the other boards.

I'm there.

YNCM

[BMC John Phillips III]

I am going to vote yes. But I think calling it a subscription is a bad move and will most likely drop our numbers. I think you should just add a donate here tab or link to your paypal for those that care enough to pay for this service, that way you don't scare anyone off. It would also eliminate the need for a trial basis.

As far as photo hosting and all the premium services, perhaps you could have an upgraded account vs free membership.

Those are my thoughts.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I'd have to agree with Deane. The numbers aren't there for this to happen (my oinion) Fred's Place boasts a 47,000 membership, but we all know his numbers are inflated and not accurate. Fred does post messages, has reunion halls, photo board, memorial board, classifed ad board & a bulletin board. He does not charge over there, and neither does military.com..... I have no idea of the costs associated with any of these sites. I also know nothing about the advertisements & other incomes provided to the site owners.

Since I have been here, I have seen about 12-15 people.. that is all. While they may be willing to pay, I'm kind of doubtful the other 700 would be.

Those are just my opinions at this time. Perhaps you could sway me if I had more info, but as of now, I don't think it will work, and I wouldn't pay it just to post to the same 15 people. Perhaps you need to get the word out to more active duty folks... Of course the key here is that they must register using a real name (which I like) and all be E-7 or above (that may hurt your cause)...

That's my 2 cents worth.... next?

Wray.. :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Although I said I'd pay the annual fee, I have to agree with other that it has a huge potential to stop other from posting. Why not as a start post the link to PayPal or give an address to send donations to, and see how the response is and then gauge the next step from there.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I vote yes. But I have another thought.

What about requesting funds from Chapters? I would be willing to put it to a vote for my chapter. I also like the idea of the "Donate" button. That way if you get some folks that just want to be generous they can donate some funds. That would also give you a way to accept money from a chapter if they chose to.

As was said before, if it keeps the site banner and ad free, I'm for it.


edit
As Deane posted earlier, you can see the numbers. Also, FYI, as of my vote, 14 people have voted. :(

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I voted yes, no really I did. I get more value out of this site than I have from any other Mess I've been a part of. I'd say that most active posters would also say yes, and even those that just view what's being said.
The only thing I don't like is the 25% going back to what we want to do with it. I don't like the idea of handling money. I'd start another poll when we get that far and I think we could all agree that Dennis handles all the money and does what he sees fit with it. He could solict for ideas, but I'd rather he was the bank. I trust his judgement in all things related to this site.

Dennis, count me in.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

I like the "donate" idea myself.
I also think that we would loose a ton of members if they "had to pay"

Jayare

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I vote yes, if Poster Emiratus Endicott is the handler of the $$.

[BMC Ralph Williams]

I vote yes.

Just show me where to hit the "click" button.

Ralph

[BMCS Burt Ford]

No problem here either Dennis. I agree, I bet those that vote yes are the active posters. I would also bet that at least 432 membrs dont vote at all.

I agree with Stu though, I dont want to handle monies but we could get a treasurer if it happens.

I would also donate. This is a great site and I dont want to loose it.

burt

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Lots of YES posters. Just for arguments sake, I voted NO. While I have gotten alot of value from this site, I think it is becoming more and more like that other site that I have not been to in years. I think many of the discussions are not constructive. I don't look at those. If the site on CGCentral comes to fruition, then maybe that will be the next generation. This has been great, but like all things, it evolves. I am not sure I like the evolution. Call me old fashioned, but...

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

I voted yes but I would also wonder if the various chapters could ante in to help out.
There is a lot of info these days on this sight and even though I'm relatively new I use this board in a similar fashion to CGMS. I quickly am able to filter out the info I feel is pertinent and I don't spend much time on the stuff that isn't applicable to me. So the more topics the better in my mind.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I just thought of this and it is a little sad, but I spend 24$ a month for CPOA dues and get more from this site that the newsletter from them.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I would also wonder if the various chapters could ante in to help out.

Certainly you have got to be kidding... Go to the CPOA chapters on this site.. At the most I bet you have 10 people that have voiced an opinion..... The general memberships at Chapters would never nuy into paying here.. (my opinion)

Burt, I pay $18 per month, and all that gets me is a copy of the CHief magazine, how ever often that comes out.

I'm not sure what BMCS Masden doesn't like about this site or the other.. They are discussion boards. Certainly many threads are not constructive.. but, they provide you with an opportunity to voice your opinion, and, no one is forced to open or read any thread.. Personally, I don't waste my time on the politics or religion threads.

I, do understand it takes money to run these sites. Fred of course is paid by Monster.. I'm not sure, but I think they bought his site. I guess costs can be covered by donations (Fred has done that) and other means, such as advertising etc...

Wray... :cool:

[CWO Hank Trice (ITC)]

Subscription or donation, I'll support the site either way.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Certainly you have got to be kidding... Go to the CPOA chapters on this site.. At the most I bet you have 10 people that have voiced an opinion..... The general memberships at Chapters would never nuy into paying here.. (my opinion)

I disagree, I am pretty sure if I motioned to donate some $$'s at the Southernmost's next meeting, it would be 2nd'd and passed. But I am not gonna do that until we come up with some sort of plan. I wouldn't hinge the CPOA's support on how frequent they post here or how internet savvy they are.

I think the majority believe that donating is the way to go.

Dennis, what about merchandizing? I can already see a few BM's here with their "Unvarnished" coffee cups. I would go for the T-shirt myself, since I don't drink coffee.

[ETC John D Zidek]

I will bring it up as a motion at the Yorktown meeting once we have something more in stone and an amount to take to the meeting. We have one of the largest chapters and I don't think we would have any problem squeezing some cash out of the treasurers hands.

Merchandise is another great idea. I would pick up a fleece, golf shirt and coffee mug if they were available.


ETC "Z"

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

John, good luck. Unless I am missing something, or someone, you and I are the only ones from Yorktown Chapter to post here..

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Well Wray ... at least we know who can "second" John's motion. :)

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

Wow, JP3
A BM that dosn't drink coffee??????

Jayare

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I wasn't ignoring the posts, I just wanted to let them run awhile before I replied.

I don't like to idea of asking for assistance from another organization, simply because there will be strings attached.

Thank you for offering the donations option, but it's hard to plan with money that may or may not be there. Plus, I just don't feel right accepting donations.

You're probably correct that subscriptions may be premature for the entire board, but how about certain aspects of it (like the password protected forum for example)?

I like the idea of merchandising. I have a guy that could do shirts, jackets, coffee mugs, etc.. That might be worth exploring, for both a way to generate income and a merchandising effort.

Please continue to offer up some suggestions.

[MKCM Brett Ayer]

I didn't vote. Right now, I'm not sure.

I would be concerned that if you charged a membership fee to post, then you would get very few new members. Eventually old members would go away and the site would die a slow death.

I have seen this happen over and over again since before the web was created. Back in the days of 300 baud modems we had BBSs (that were the generally the same thing as a web forum). They had the same issues, and one by one, they either went commercial or paid membership. If they went commercial, they got out of control very quickly because if was all about getting people to log on, or if they went fee based they slowly faded away.

The ones that stayed around were usually run by local user groups that paid to keep it up and running, but kept membership free.

It is a difficult issue.

Brett

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I wasn't ignoring the posts, I just wanted to let them run awhile before I replied.

Yeah, me too. I think generating funds is a good idea. I think $12 a month sounds more reasonable, but I also like the idea of just having it for the closed forum.

I think there are enough members that read it regularly but post seldom, they would just not go through the hassle. I think this site provokes thought, and you get many different opinions on varied topics. I think that anything that hinders someone from voicing their opinion defeats the purpose.

[AMTCM John Long]

Yeah, me too. I think generating funds is a good idea. I think $12 a month sounds more reasonable, but I also like the idea of just having it for the closed forum.

Ken,

Good one!!

John

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

It looks like the Nos have overtaken the Yeses. I voted no, but would rather see a "Donate" button. I most likely would donate.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I like the idea of merchandising. I have a guy that could do shirts, jackets, coffee mugs, etc.. That might be worth exploring, for both a way to generate income and a merchandising effort.

In all the years I have been a member of Fred's Place and Military.com I have never purchased anything from either site. Perhaps they have not had a good selection, or their items were overpriced.. I haven't looked for years...

I'd say, if you choose this route to come up with something unique that would appeal to many.. How many "Chief's" coffee mugs does a person need?

Wray.. :cool:

[AMTCM John Long]

I haven't voted, I'm waffling. Got mixed feelings on it. I too would have liked to see a "Donate" block.

With that said, I'm guessing at this point enough input has been rendered to draw some conclusions.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

As Deane pointed out:

- There are currently 734 members
- Out of those 734 members, 432 have never posted
- Only 34 members have more than 100 posts
- Only 57 members have more than 50 posts
- Only 122 members have more than 10 posts

I believe the NO's are now over the Yes's...... It is quite clear a subscription fee would not work... (in my mind)... Donations may... regardless, you need to shake up some of the other registered members.. you really have 57 that post here occasionally... things can get pretty slow... I bet I've probably only seen 15 or so "regulars" posting here...

Thoughts?

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

As Deane pointed out:

I bet I've probably only seen 15 or so "regulars" posting here...

Thoughts?

Wray... :cool:

There's some posters here that are somewhat irregular as well. :D

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

There are roughly between 40 and 90 memebers that log on in any given 24 hour period. You can't only look at the amount of people posting to judge which members are active. Some people choose to remain silent until their opinion isn't being expressed.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

You can't only look at the amount of people posting to judge which members are active.

Sorry Stu, but if they don't post, they are not active.. Check now and see how many members are on, see how many guests are on? If the members don't post, they might as well be a guest. Chances are, if they charge, they will be a guest.

There are also several that log on during the work day, but, perhaps they do not want to post from the government computer.. :eek:

Wray.. :cool:

[BMC John Phillips III]

Wray, I fit that bill, I log on during the work day to check things once in a while, mostly during lunch, but you get the idea. I just don't like to post from work. Anyway, check out this thread http://cgchiefs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699 it kind of covers some of the "less active" member's reasons for not posting.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Wray, like any other Mess, you can still be active just by showing up. People are active just by being here. They always have the option to chime in. Guest can never do that. This thread is a perfect example of the difference. As I'm typing this, we've had 35 votes cast. We did not have 35 people post a response. Those people who voted and didn't post, are still active members exercising the right to voice their opinion. Other members may have done neither, and are still undecided. That doesn't somehow degrade them back to guest status. They'll voice their opinion when they want to. Guests will never have that option.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Stuart... I hear what you are saying, and understand why.. but the fact remains, those that are only going to read, are non-active in my book.. Although they may considered "active" because they read, and occasionally vote on a poll, the fact is they will probably not support the user fee, if one is imposed.

Well, I think I have said all I need to say on this subject.. There is really no point in arguing about it.. Dennis will do what he feels he needs to do... I will just sit back until a decision is made... Perhaps some of the silent majority will voice their opinions, but I'd put some money down you won't get 10 new opinions... 10 out of 432.. what do ya think of those odds!

Good luck, what ever the decision is.............

Wray.. :cool:

[MKC Gene Sykes]

I am new to the site, and I believe I would pay just due to the fact that someone has taken the time to put this site together and would like to see it grow and become a great asset to the Chief's Mess. It takes time, money, and the current members to pass the word about the site.

I believe I am 1 of the 10 that is needed to get Wray to pay up.

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

Ok, one that logs into this site can say that they have seen my name many times a day, and yes....I check from work, but rarely do I respond from work (and I check who is online everytime I'm on).

I voted NO at first, but since then, the idea of donations came up and although I can be cheap I would be willing to donate (and I'm one of the few that have over 100 posts that voted NO). I would also like the idea of merchandising (sp?). Yes, I would be more than happy to buy something that had the "Unvarnished Truth" on it!!

I work with 2 other chiefs that log into this site everyday, but never have posted. Those guys I can tell you won't pay a subscription, but one at least would donate if that was a option (I think)!!

Just my .02 cents worth! By the way, does this cound towards the 10 that Wray bet against? :p

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

I voted no. But...I know I would click a donate button. I would venture to say that a lot of Chief's view this site but don't post, yet sit down with them and I bet they will talk all afternoon about a topic.

Why don't they post? Hell, I don't know. Maybe the computer scares them. Maybe they type something and it comes off totally sounding wrong. Maybe someone slams them for their grammer, punctuation, spelling, paragraphing.....poof, no more posting.

I don't know, what do most of you think if you read something that is "sloppy" wording is wrong, sounds terrible...you know what I mean? You have all seen them. Do you take their post seriously, consider their opinion valid? Just throwing it out there. Sometimes I wish I could just start typing away my thoughts and opinions, heat of the moment type thing and hit the submit button. I then preview my post and WOW! Look at all those mispelled words, forgotten letters, etc. etc. Sometimes I'll throw something over to a Word .doc and let it spell check for me....

I'll spend 30-40 minutes typing something up, just to make sure it comes off right, not offending anyone...Maybe I shoud just type it and send it!

If it were not for some of the smiley faces you can throw down or if you did not know me personally, some of you might think I am out in left field or smoking the crack pipe. Some of you already do... :D

I guess I don't care what it looks like, sounds like, comes off like, etc, etc. I enjoy reading all the post and take what I can and what I like and use it in my everyday going ons. I post when I have something to contribute to the conversation.

I have been a member since 2004 and have only 134 post (135 after this) I'm not sure I'd be getting the "bang for the buck" with a subscription as little as I post.

See, here we go. :o I get all the way down to here, with all the typing above leading up to my "minimum posting" comment, all under the assumption that it's 24$ a month, not a year.

Now....this is where I might go back and highlight everything and click delete and say "screw it", everyone on here will think I'm nuts, scratch their heads and say "what the bleep is he talking about".

....I've been working on this for to long though, not tonight.

Ok, back on topic. What was the topic again......

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Chris,

I'm not the grammar police nor spelling police. Posts that are unclear would spur questions ... like, what in the world are you talking about?

That's when the author's ego, the all-powerful ego, steps in and squelches other posts by the author.

The best thing about posting is ... you can improve your writing skills and language skills by posting. Yes, sometimes it takes that 40 minutes to prepare a cogent thought, but the second post might be 35 minutes, a 12.5% improvement on the author's part. Within a short period of time, the author will be whipping out posts like a mad (wo)man.

I haven't voted. My initial thoughts were no, but the Donate button sounds good to me.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Why don't they post? Hell, I don't know. Maybe the computer scares them. Maybe they type something and it comes off totally sounding wrong. Maybe someone slams them for their grammer, punctuation, spelling, paragraphing.....poof, no more posting.

Chris, I think the only thing about a computer that would scare them is the fact that they are on a government computer during the work day. This board is open to E7's and above. I don't think most should or would be that intimidated about spelling or grammar, while important,... in my book to express yourself would rank higher ...

Often we don't always organize out thoughts that we put on paper. I know I don't. If that is a problem I will either edit my post after re-reading it, or make a new post to clarify things.

You know, I always tell my kids "practice makes perfect"... the more they type, the better they get at it.. same with posting or anything else.

Thanks for your post!

Wray... :cool:

[ETC John D Zidek]

Burt, I pay $18 per month, and all that gets me is a copy of the CHief magazine, how ever often that comes out.


Master Chief I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the CPOA dues went up to $24 a year a few of years ago. National has been trying to get everyone to update their allotments for awhile now.
r/

"Z"

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

"Z" --> I hate to break this to you, but..... I joined years ago as a Silver Lifetime Member.. No allotments for me.. I paid a one time lump sum...I am paid up until the day I die... It can save you a lot of money if you do it at the right time... and I did. I would highly recommend it to you, and others as well... just look on the back page of your Chief Magazine.. ;)

But thanks for the info... and I was aware of the dues increase... Just glad it didn't apply to me:D

Now, about that membership list....??? ;)


Wray.... :cool:
P.S. Do you know BMCM Mark Schweiger? He lives up there where you do.. or at least he did.. Not sure if he has moved yet... He was at AtoN School. He was also my XPO on CAPSTAN.

[MKC Curtiss Diehl]

I voted yes. I do not post to many threads but the information that is posted on here is valuable. I do like the idea of donations better but what we all decide on here I will go with.

[ETC John D Zidek]

I have the list sitting in my PC at work. Randy is going to ask the BOD what they think before I post it. Their meeting was today. so one way or the other I will have an answer for you tomorrow.

I apologize for my assumption about the dues.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

John, no problem.... but the "Silver Lifetime" it is something you may want to think about.. ;)

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Wray, Mark moved to harrisburg PA and is working for the Private ATON folks at the DNR.

I log in at work. I consider this work related. It is a mess after all.

Lets hear from more of the voters, chime in chiefs!

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

The best thing about posting is ... you can improve your writing skills and language skills by posting. Yes, sometimes it takes that 40 minutes to prepare a cogent thought, but the second post might be 35 minutes, a 12.5% improvement on the author's part. Within a short period of time, the author will be whipping out posts like a mad (wo)man.

I agree.

You know, I always tell my kids "practice makes perfect"... the more they type, the better they get at it.. same with posting or anything else.

Again I agree.

I hated it when the OIC would give back a report, 3307, my support forms, whatever it may have been at the time and it was covered in Red ink! If it wasn't spelling, it was grammer or formatting, "does it really matter if the indent is right, the spacing is 3 vice 4(now 2). Does it really matter if the correct ref is there, the correct SSIC code is there, etc. etc." Well it did and it still does. You are right, it didn't take long before the red ink started getting less and less for me.

Every once in a while I'll still catch one of the troops submitting something and I'll ask them what the SSIC number stands for on their paper they are asking to be signed. Most of them know that I'll ask them. Some of them don't know when I'll ask them :D

Now...I love my red pen and I smile and think of my old OIC's when I'm using it. It's funny how some things just don't change. I still remember going over anything and everything with my fellow BM3's, BM2's, before submitting it up to the boss, and hoping it wouldn't come back all scratched up.

CS

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

If you have been trying to log on for the past few hours, you know we had some downtime. I really don't know why it happened. The tech guys fixed it for me, gave me an explanation that I didn't understand, and now things are back to normal.

This is the kind of thing that I'm trying to prevent by having dedicated technical support.

[BMC John Marschhauser]

I voted yes. It's about neck and neck right now. Start off with the DONATE idea. Perhaps you could use the first batch of funds to assign some type of "added status membership" to the paid up folks.
This could be added to the member's status, ie: "Senior Contributing Member" as opposed to "Senior Member". It would just be a matter of time before most folks clicked the "Donate" button and got instant gratification for their money!
Some folks appeared to get the wrong idea about the dollar amount. The original post was about an annual donation, not a monthly amount.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

John, the origional post (#1) was for an annual fee...

A fee is not the same thing as a donation...

This is what post #1 said:

"2. We'll charge a $24 per year subscription fee for those that choose to post to the board."

Big difference in Fee and Donation..

Wray... :cool:

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Well I have thought about this and I finally decided to vote no. I probably would have given a donation as I like this site and venture here often. But I look at paying to post as the same as someone paying me for my opinion, or moreso me paying someone for theirs. I respect the site and I know it takes money to keep it going. But I don't believe I want to pay for someones opinion and I don't want them paying for mine.

I would like to think that we are an organization that if I sent any one of you an email needing help, opinions or anything else you would reply as fast as you could. I know I would if any one of you required my help or services.

I appreciate the board and what it has done, but I guess this is where I jump off, at least the paid parts. I am sure I will still lurk on the others as I have learned and gained over time by reading them.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I've collected $336 in subscription fees. As I stated earlier, I'll give 25% of what I collect back to the board to do with as you see fit.

As of now, the board has $84 banked. I can make it available whenever you guys decide on how to use it, or I'll just keep adding to it.

Let me know.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Just keep adding to it. Call it your rainy day fund.

In my forty years of being in electronics, I haven't successfully predicted when a working item decides to go TU.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Dennis,

Just hold it until we need it for upgrades.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

It was stated that it takes 200 bucks to run the site. Now Dennis has been paid 336.00 but he is giving 25% back. And as more people register he gets more money. Sorry I do not agree with this Dennis.

When you started this site did you think that you would eventually get reimbursed for it?

I thought you started it just to be the sole responsible party for starting a cool Chiefs Website. A legacy if you will. You did what no other Chief ever did. I had a tremendous amount of respect for that.

It almost seems like you lured us in for awhile, then required payment to really be a part of this e-mess.

It should have stayed a donation, I think you still would have got enough money. Kinda like at a church, pass the hat. Or any other contribution we give to all the time by passing the hat. I may be the minority, but in a real Chiefs Mess the minority would still have a voice.

This is this Chiefs opinion.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Keith,

I think of it as a donation even though it's labled a subscription. It does cost money to run a website ... I'm sure if anyone stepped up who wanted to run it, Dennis could sell it.

Now if Dennis' intent was to make a profit, he would have a host of other things to worry about.

I probably would have called it a donation. To me, paid subscription implies an intent to make a profit ... I haven't researched the IRS position on donation -v- subscription.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

It almost seems like you lured us in for awhile, then required payment to really be a part of this e-mess.


Keith
I think that's a bit off. I'm a new Chief initiated in 05 so I'm not exactly sure how long this site has been around. Anyone? Anyway if someone was trying to lure us and then get money for it I don't think they would have waited two years.

I just need to get off my butt when I'm at home and send some money. By the time I get home the last thing I want to do is turn on my computer so I've been slacking. It's also been more fun watching my 10 month old walking and getting into trouble. I guess my parents are getting thier revenge.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

By the time I get home the last thing I want to do is turn on my computer so I've been slacking.

So are you saying all your reading/posting here is done during your CG work day?
Wray... :cool:

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Pat I think your right that was a little off I guess, for that I am sorry.

The site has been around a little over 3 years.

We had to know that at some point it will make money right? And that the costs would go up, when we use more and more bandwidth. Or whatever it is called, (Space.) I just dont like the pay or you cant play mentality. It wasnt started as a pay site.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

I agree, it's tough to pay for something that's always been free. But hey I don't like having to pay for shipping charges from Vanguard when the UDC is out of stock. :rolleyes:

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Keith-
I am looking to make a profit. I was very upfront about that when I started the subscriptions. However, 99% of the board is still free and will remain so. The only pay-per part is the closed forum.

Eventually, I'll have a number of services available to subscribers that are not available to non-subscribers. You can choose to pay or not. Nothing about the subscriptions is going to shackle your ability to participate in the open forums.

I'm not going to apologize for trying to make some change.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I just dont like the pay or you cant play mentality

You can play as much as you like, just not behind a closed door. Take a look at the number of posts & threads in that "closed" area... Doesn't appear to be much playing going on in there anyway...

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Keith,

Free is a matter of prospective. Free to you and I on this site, meant Dennis was paying so we can shoot off our mouth. The majority of the site is still "Free" with only those donating having access to one area. Two bucks a month is cheaper than some pay for their coffee mess. Even the cooks get to charge everyone on seprats a lunch meal [probably more, it's been years since I looked at that] for the mess. I'm sure the local FS's will straighten me out on that if I'm wrong.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

From my perspective, ...I've gotten more out of the site than I will ever be able to pay into it....so Dennis, I still owe you.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I voted No, I don’t remember who said it before but I’m not going to pay for someone’s opinion. If I’m doing that I’ll be laying on a couch talking to a doctor. If it was to pay for the upkeep to run the sit ok but for someone to make a profit then no thank you. I just see it turning into another Fred’s place/military dot come mess. If I’m not worthy to ask your advice in the closed forum/chiefs mess without paying you a fee then I don’t want it, I will go to my local mess or pick up the phone and call a fellow shipmate for advice for free. I like this site the way it started and the intent in which it started. Let’s keep it that way. If we need to raise money the keep it running then ok lets get to work but for someone to make a profit then count me out. This is a chiefs e-mess I’m sure the money that I already pay for my cpo dues can be used to help run the site we just have to ask. If the CPOA wont help fund this site then please let use know and I will stop paying dues to them and start paying here as I get more from this site then the CPOA. Much more info here then in that little flyer that comes out once a quarter. To pay here is just another nickel in all the dues that we are getting nickel and dimmed to death over.
Be safe and have a fine Coast Guard Day

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I will go to my local mess or pick up the phone and call a fellow shipmate for advice for free.

You should be doing that now....

If the CPOA wont help fund this site then please let use know and I will stop paying dues to them and start paying here as I get more from this site then the CPOA.

Why would the CPOA do that? they are having their own money & membership problems... they can't fund anyone & everyone that opens up a CG site.

I do understand the need for funding sites like this, however, I don't think $24 per year to get into one secure area, that really doesn't appear to have much activity, is really worth it. Perhaps there could be some sort of advertising... I don't know.

Wray.... :cool:

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Wray
I do use my local mess now but we are small in numbers and do not always have the answers. So I look here as my extended mess for guidance. Allot of the time we are already discussing issues here and the answers are already posted.
Secondly were are not just any CG website looking for help. We are a CG Chiefs mess asking our CG CPOA to help fund one of our CG Chiefs functions.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Secondly were are not just any CG website looking for help. We are a CG Chiefs mess asking our CG CPOA to help fund one of our CG Chiefs functions.

Art, I understand what you are saying, but this site was started by Dennis, not the CG, not the CPOA. It is his own site, geared towards CG Chief's. This is not a Chief's function... juat a site they may enjoy.

With that said, there is no stopping you, or anyone else from requesting their local CPOA chapter make a donation to Dennis. That may work.

Wray.. :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If Dennis published his business plan, we'd see how much money he intends to make on this "for profit" venture.

Does he intend to support his family with this venture? Only he can answer that question.

Would everyone feel better if Dennis went public and sold shares in this venture?

I don't know if Dennis ran all the numbers ... salaries, taxes, expenses, et al, to come up with a figure of what would be needed for this as a for profit organization. As a for profit, the moderators would be compensated even if the "subscriptions" didn't meet payroll .... it would be funded by Dennis' pocket [assuming the moderators were hired and not volunteers].

I'm sure if Dennis is going the "for profit" he's already consulted Publication 334 (2006), Tax Guide for Small Business (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/index.html).

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Joe,
Excellent points.. Guess we'll have to wait for Dennis to reply...

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Are you serious?!?

Pay or don't pay. As I said before, 99% of the forum is still free. Enjoy the free parts if you don't want to go behind the closed door.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Are you serious?!?

Was that for me or Joe?

Wray... :cool:

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

OK, OK. I went back and looked Dennis.

You have done a good job of advertising.

I think it is wrong to collect a profit with so many CG Chiefs and other Sites pushing your site. I have been one of your biggest supporters. Check my date, ask around. It is a fact.

It is plainly unethical. I wonder if the CPOA and everyone else that is advertising the site, realized you were going to try and turn a buck. Heck we even had a CG mandated survey that sent you to this site. You are taking advantage of the situation now, and that is plain wrong.

We preach core values, and ethics, then we turn around and push a retired Chiefs Website, that plans on making some change out of it. How does that look?

And I will not apologize for something that I think is wrong. That is the unvarnished truth. Like it or not. At first I wasnt going to post this, but decided that it is in the best interest of all involved to look at it from this angle.

I dont fault anyone for trying to make a buck! But I do fault people when they go about it the wrong way.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Wray,

Dennis has already indicated how he intended to use the money. I don't recall him actually saying he intended to make a living with this website, or actually pursuing a profit. I only stated those things to get people to think about what it would take to pursue this as a "for profit".

I viewed his intentions as non-profit, so I contributed.

If he were to compensate the moderators for doing their job, I would have to remind him that paying anyone $600 or more a year requires him to file a 1099-Misc with the IRS, so he could get the deduction and the moderators could claim the income. All income, in cash or other value, is taxable. Even if you used your talents to help your neighbor and your neighbor used their talents to help you, that is a fair trade of value and is income to both.

Don't even think it's paying for someone's opine. Even if Dennis paid for opines, he could file 1099-Misc ... because the person received a "royality" for the publication of their words. :)

Let's not get carried away with the "for profit" terminology.

Pay ... don't pay. The choice is the individuals. Dennis could have made it the reverse, with one area open for all and the rest closed for subscribers.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I'm not understanding the "push-back" here. I'm unethical because I have pay-per sections on the board? Please...

As for this site being promoted by other organizations, I never solicited that. I'm happy it occured, but I didn't ask for it.

If you think that there should be a CG-owned discussion board for Chiefs, go build one! I'll join! I wish there were one in my early years as a Chief. But, you know what? There wasn't one. There still isn't one. So, I built my own.

I could have called the subscriptions "donations." And, I could have kept how many "donations" were collected secret. But, that's not how I operate. I tell you what I'm doing and why.

I swear to God, some of you would complain about anything.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

You know perfectly well Dennis .... that a bi%^hin' sailor is a happy sailor. :)

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Dennis,
Go make yourself a tall drink and CHILL....

We are just talking.. those that want to pay will.. those that don't won't .. pretty simple huh?

You are retired.. you need to lear how to relax, or you will find you self in an early grave.. While we may be talking, we are not getting half as excited as you appear to be...

With that..........I'm off for another R/C.

Wray... :cool:
P.S. R/C = Rum & coke........

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

I have been around long enough to know how stubborn you are Dennis. Its alot harder to say " You know what I might have acted to soon" instead of labeling someone a complainer.

As far as the other poster throwing stones, if I did have any respect for you before I don't now. Name Calling accomplishes nothing, but creates hate and discontent.

I am not an E-4 or someone lower ranking than either of you and I refuse to be shut down so easily. Wake up and smell the coffee, we are all wrong sometimes. A real Chief would not be afraid to admit it and move on!
Touche!

I mean heck why even have a poll, you knew what you were going to do anyhow! It just took you awhile to figure out the details.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Thanks for your input, Keith.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Another thing I just thought of: Now that your going to make a profit how will you verify who is a Chief and who isn't. It is illegal to use CG computer systems to make a profit? And verifying us through the CG email system cannot be done now legally.

I am really not trying to be a cheap skate. I am a E-7 bout to be an E-8 dont you think I can afford it? Really Dennis why would I bring it all up and piss off a bunch of fellow Chiefs If I really didnt believe it was wrong.

In a real Chiefs Mess this would be discussed and I would be heard. I know there is others that agree with me too.

It is your site I guess, you can do what you want. Wo be me for bringing the issues up.

I still respect you for starting it, it is still awesome, I just think that part is not right. Ive been here this long, I am not going any where any time soon. Ill just have to deal with my issues with the active Chiefs instead of online. And not get any real experience from you all. And that sux too, but it is right. And the right thing is hard to do sometimes, but as Chiefs we do it.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

OK. Thanks again.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Thank you Dennis for at least starting something no one else had done. How much would it take to buy you out?