CPOA Conventions

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I just received my Jan 2007 copy of "THE CHIEF" magazine. After reading as far as page 3, I am quite disappointed.... Not only is the 2007 National convention being held in Las Vegas, but so is the 2008 convention. What the hell is so great about Vegas? The conventions are now hosted by National rather than local chapters. I'm sure the lack of hosting by local chapters is due to loss of interest.

In the past, places like St Pete, Mobile, Key West, Cleveland, St Louis, Washington DC, to name a few have been the host cities. I have attended in Nashville, Orlando, St Louis, Williamsburg, & Corpus. Always had a great time. I would like to attend again, but it appears that wont happen 'till 2009 at the soonest.

I also saw the dues increase, due to the CPOA being at "the point where our expenses are exceeding our income" .... I believe the National chapter foots the bill for a bunch of people to attend the convention.. perhaps this may need to come to an end. Does anyone have the membership numbers for the last 10 or so years? What exactly is the CPOA doing to increase its membership? What specifically are they doing for their members?

I am a Silver Lifetime member of the CPOA. I hate to see an organization I belong to disolve, but what I am seeing is anything but favorable.

By the way, how many here have ever attended a CPOA National Convention?

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I attended the St Louis convention a couple of years ago. I went as the President of the Mt Hood Chapter (Portland, OR). It was interesting. There were some things going on that I didn't really understand, but caught on as the week went on. I had planned to keep attending, but operations have not allowed it. Vegas is out of the question. I thought that there was a convention committee that found locations based on suggestions from chapters/members? Maybe they didn't get any input.

The biggest problem that I see is that no one wants to participate at the chapter or national level. Everyone wants to bitch and complain, but no one wants to take on the responsibility of trying to make it better. We need some new blood in the CPOA at the national level. We need Chiefs to step up at the chapter level and put in the time to make chapters bettter. It's the same people doing everything.

I just found out yesterday that the Mt Hood chapter is folding. It's pretty pathetic that they can't keep it going. I helped charter it in 2004 and now it's folding. It's easy to keep a chapter current...it just takes people to care.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

The biggest problem that I see is that no one wants to participate at the chapter or national level. Everyone wants to bitch and complain, but no one wants to take on the responsibility of trying to make it better. We need some new blood in the CPOA at the national level. We need Chiefs to step up at the chapter level and put in the time to make chapters bettter. It's the same people doing everything.

Deane, I think the biggest problem is at the local level.... If the chapters can't get their $hit together, how can National pull it all together? Before 2001, the local chapters would host the conventions.. but starting 2001 no one wanted to do it, so National did.

I certainly agree about the new blood. What good would it do at the National level if the chapters aren't doing their part?

I hate to be the one with such a negative outlook on this, but I sure don't see any bright horizon in the future...

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Wray...I agree.

I went back and re-read my earlier post and probably came off a little stronger than intended. I just get very frustrated/disappointed when we can't get reliable help at the Chapter level. I always scratch my head as to why that is.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

You don't get new people because no one steps up to the plate to do the job...There are many of the same guys that have been doing this for the last 15-20 years... I ask myself why they do it.

I guarantee you I wouldn't do it for a free trip to Vegas....or anywhere else.

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Wray, I attended several Conventions a few years back before the U/W operational world slowed me down. Even threw my hat in the ring and ran for a national office to be some new blood. But lost because no one knew me and the same old same old wins since their name is known.

I was there the year that the National Convention Committee started. As you state it's always the same people doing things, well so was it with Chapters apply to host a Convention. The Convention Committee was thought to save Chapters from all the work and also designed to turn a profit that would help the budget from paying out each year. And it was starting to work or at least the numbers looked that way the year I sat on the Budget Committee. But our latest National President decided that he would decide where Convention was to be held instead of the Committee which was looking for the best deal each year to host or declining numbers. So because of that we get 2 trips to Vegas. And your very correct, some get all expenses paid trips.

Truthfully the National Officers and Office has become more of a burden that it's worth most days. I don't know about your local Chapter, but mine is out there doing great things in the community and helping our younger members when needed. National should be there to support the Chapters and not the other way around.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Bruce, I hear ya,.. and agree with ya.. Although I am a member of the Yorktown Chapter, since retirement I have had just about nothing to do with the CPOA.

As a retiree you are seldom included on things like CCTI, CG Day COC's etc... I have no real problem with that, but if that is going to be the case I don't want to hear. "Why aren't you involved"....

I think a real question prospective CPO's should be asking is as a member of the CPOA, what will this organization do for me? What you as a CPO can do for the organization is obvious.

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings All,

It is my humble opinion this will be a very interesting convention. As has been pointed out our National Dictator (I mean Pres) has decided where the next two conventions will be held. Our By Laws does not permit this action and it will be a point of contention during the next session. This is consistant with the Presidents agenda. He can not stand to be told what he will do, even though it is his job to serve the membership. I have reminded him with no avail that during the installation of officers it states "They (the membership) have placed their trust and faith in you and you owe them a solemn obligation to perform the duties of your office as an obedient servant and not as it's master". Some where along the line he just does not get it.

I completely agree with the lack at the local level. Here in Mobile we do almost everything but run a bus to get people to come and participate. We just selected out Enlisted Person of the Year for the Mobile Area and held a presentation at our last meeting. The Sector CO and Airsta CO both attended. Not one CMC from the area showed up. The receipants supervisor, a CPO and member, attended but left as soon as the ceremony was over.

Bruce hit it on the head with the Name Recognition way of getting elected Nationally. Our current Pres who was also our last Pres made a lot of people really mad during his term, but he still beat me by a landslide. I have drafted and the Mobile Chapter is submitting a resolution to change elections to be held during Convention. Thoughts?

What I see at the National level is a lack of vision. No clear cut goals, and a Pres wanting to find ways to only work on what he wants to work on without regard of what the membership wants. Case in Point the Townhall Meeting of the last convention. What a waste of time and effort. We were to give ideas, the Board work on them and make reports so the membership could see the results. 6 Months later, Not one report. Since the new Natl V P was not at the last convention, as the outgoing V P I submitted all the By Laws changes to the Pres the week after convention. They still have not been published. MC Gillette asked what we are doing about membership. CMC Kevin Isherwood, our National Chairman has for years made excellent recommendations, only to be met by opposition from the National President. On his own Kevin now sends out a projected retirement list so they are reminded to keep their allowments. He has published something he calls Proven Practices, again not highly promoted by the National Officers. He is out most active recruiter by far.

How do we fix? I believe the excitement of being a member of CPOA starts with the leadership. It starts from the top and trickles down. It starts with a true vision of actually serving it's members. I believe it starts with setting realistic goals and meeting them. I believe it starts by being up to date. Our organization is run by 1970's 80's standards instead of 2007 standards. And if we do not move forward fast we will continue to faulter. I sincerely wish we could create more discussion on this site. When we talk about something enough and all the good it produces, then it catches on. (snowball effect)

I have rambled enough. I believe in CPOA and I believe it is the right organization for the Coast Guard. We must revitalize it!

Charlie

[MKCM Brett Ayer]

Deane, I think the biggest problem is at the local level....
Wray... :cool:

Wray,

I agree. At this year’s convention, there was a resolution to require all "At Large" members to join chapters. One of the purposes of this resolution was to strengthen the membership at the chapter level, and encourage more local participation.

It was shot down like a B-17 in the first half of 12 O'clock High.

I believe the Vegas thing has to do with the general cost. Flights to Vegas are cheap for both east and west. It would have been nice to see the general membership have a say though.

Charlie, good to hear from you.

Brett

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie,
I couldn't agree more... the CPOA needs help. The majority of that help should come from the active duty side of the house. I don't see that happening. With not one CMC showing up at your Enlisted Person of the Year ceremony proves that. What a disgrace...

I was told local chapters don't want to get involved enough to put on a convention. That is why National has been doing if for the past several years. Perhaps the trip to Vegas is their annual vacation... All I can say is.... "Have fun in Vegas". I'll read about it.

I can't understand why the by-laws have not been published as of yet... To me there is noe excuse for such inattention to detail.

The projected retirement list you talk about was done at the HQ level.... All you had to do was ask for it.

I wish the organization well... Since I am a lifetime member I will be interested in what goes on, but I'm not traveling to Vegas year after year for a convention. My only involvement at this time is getting my magazine, seeing what is happening around the CG, and who has retired or passed away.

Good luck to you all...

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I believe the Vegas thing has to do with the general cost. Flights to Vegas are cheap for both east and west. It would have been nice to see the general membership have a say though.

Who exactly gets their airfair and rooms paid for?

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

As has been pointed out our National Dictator (I mean Pres) has decided where the next two conventions will be held. Our By Laws does not permit this action and it will be a point of contention during the next session. This is consistant with the Presidents agenda. He can not stand to be told what he will do, even though it is his job to serve the membership. I have reminded him with no avail that during the installation of officers it states "They (the membership) have placed their trust and faith in you and you owe them a solemn obligation to perform the duties of your office as an obedient servant and not as it's master". Some where along the line he just does not get it.

So, how does he get enough people to vote for him? How does he remain in positions at the national level? Can't the membership see through all of this?

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Wray's Airfare Question: The 7 National Board of Directors and the Executive Director. This is budgeted for. During my tenure as V P I will say there was no misuse of travel. It is a necessary part of running the organization. We only have two paid employees in the organization. When we require people to be somewhere we should pay for it.

Brett is correct on Vegas cost. However, this does not and I repeat does not give the National President carte blanc to do as he wishes. He wants it there every year. He pushed for it the two years I was in office. Here is what happened, The committee did not give a good report and did not have selections ready to vote on at the last convention. Also the areas they were working on did not suit the Pres, so he fired the committee, appointed a new one and told them what he wanted. We cannot change 2007,but I will call for a ratification vote concerning 2008. We will have a say. Now to be completely fair I will tell you we have more people show up in Vegas than anywhere else we go.

For years it was very difficult to get chapters to host conventions. At the 1999 convention there was no packages put in. Mobile had hosted in 98 and volunteered to host the 2000 simply because no one else would do it. Thus the National Convention Committee. This is not a bad idea, however, we must stand up for what we desire. The National Officers and Committees work for the membership.

Deane, those in the know do see through it, however, only the few who attend convention really know how the inner loop works. I have said for years the delegates do not do a good job during elections to get the right people in place. (no campaigning) Only 800 votes were counted this past election. We only have around a 100 attend convention. That leaves the majority of those voting being uninformed and voting for the name they recognize.

Finally, I am not infavor of forcing Members at Large to be assigned to Chapters. I have never seen the logic. In areas where there is a chapter the vast majority will belong to the chapter. This does not make them attend meetings or participate in anything. Why force someone who lives in Montana, North Dakota, or American Somoa be members of ____________ Chapter knowing they are not going to drive or fly the 100's of miles to go to a meeting.

If the membership will be involved enough to just let their convention delegates know what they would like we can make radical change and movement in a forward direction.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie ---- thanks for the post. I guess what will be, will be. The way I see it, the only way for things to take a turn around is for the 'active duty' side of the house to step in and get involved. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.. for a host of reasons... hell, it's hard to get people to attend a CG Day picnic.

During the majority of my CG career we had no written "core values"... We also did not preach the line "We are a Coast Guard Family" But, ya know what, we were more of a family then, and didn't need posted "core values"... Participation in things such as the CPOA, Initiations, CG Day celebrations and many other unit functions was much greater....

I look forward to a report of the next convention. It will be interesting to see how many regular, reserve, & retired members attend.

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Isherwood]

Charlie,
Thanks for the plug. I know at least one report was turned, four days late...but turned in none the less.

Wray,
That retirement list "used" to be created in HQs and you "used" just ask and they would send it out. Today, the fear of identity theft has dried up that information stream. The information is fat fingered in from several different areas, scrubbed to ensure NO Privacy Act concerns remain, then fat fingered again. Finally, that sanitized list gets sent ONLY to the CPOA Membership chairs that have requested it.

Shifting subject to MALs:
My very simple thought on the reason to shift everyone to a chapter is to provide an opportunity for membership "care and feeding' at the chapter level. At the National level the personal "care and feeding" consists of a sometimes quarterly magazine, a website, and access to the ED. Being a member of a chapter would network the MALs into the local happenings at the Chapter level, it would provide for a different information resource via chapter news letters and emails, and it would get the individual members representation at the National level. Currently our MAL list makes up more than 2400 locally unaffiliated members with ZERO say in the direction of the local or national organization, with the exception of national officer election voting rights.

In the vast majority of the cases the MALs gladly affiliate with a chapter, any chapter when given the opportunity or when the details of being a MAL are explained. I say "vast majority" because there are some MALs that want nothing to do with their local chapters, period, for what ever reason. If you look at a chapter Membership roster more folks are from "away" than from the local area.

As chapter membership chair in the Hawaiian Islands chapter I found that there were 30 locally residing members out of the 180 total on the chapter roster. Heck, there were chapter officers that were ineligible to be in office due to not being a member of that chapter. It was only a couple of key strokes to fix it and we were happy to have the VOLUNTEERS.

There are ONLY two paid positions in the National CPOA, the executive director and his part time assistant. Everything else in the CPOA depends upon and revolves around the goodness in peoples hearts. And as I have said many times before, many chapters are kicking butt and doing great things in their local areas.

The CPOA is a member of the Military Coalition (FRA, VFW, American Legion etc..) which has a strong voice on the hill. So, when it comes down to where you want to donate your membership fees consider the CPOA. Remember, the CPOA is the only organization in the Military Coalition that is "run by CG Chiefs, for CG Chiefs and their families".

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I am hoping to have a serious discussion. Can anyone out there tell me the purpose of the CPOA convention? Is the convention a BOD meeting or a members meeting (note it can't be both) If its a members meeting , what is the minimum # of members required to have a quorum? If this new BOD can change any decision made at the convention, including the budget then what was the purpose of spending a week making the decision in the 1st place? seems like a hugh waste of money!!!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
Welcome aboard... Glad to see you here.. Your post raises a good question.. Perhaps Charlie or Kevin could answer this one..

I look forward to their reply.

Wray... :cool:

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Well, I know this is wishful thinking but it would be nice if National could pay for the Chapter Presidents to come to the conventions.

I know that I don't feel right using chapter funds to pay for the trip. Not everyone can afford a one week trip to Vegas without some serious planning and saving.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Some chapters have a fund-raiser to pay for their representative to attend. National has (or at least used to have) a policy where you could get funded for travel to the convention and then had a certain amount of time to pay them back...not sure if it's still on the books or not.

You shouldn't feel bad about using chapter funds, you should feel good about it. Chapters NEED to send a rep...that's how your voice is heard. Votes are made, policy is initiated. Without representation, your chapters voice will not be heard and vote won't be counted.

Do everything you can to send someone to the convention.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Well, I know this is wishful thinking but it would be nice if National could pay for the Chapter Presidents to come to the conventions.

I know that I don't feel right using chapter funds to pay for the trip. Not everyone can afford a one week trip to Vegas without some serious planning and saving.

I think National is spending enough already. Money is tight for everyone.. That is why chapters need to earn their own money... Many things were done at the chapter level years ago which today do not exist, or are funded by National...

Involvement is the key...

Wray... :cool:
P.S. MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret.) was the Judge at my Initiation.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I'm sorry, but I must ask BMCS deane Smith. Why send a chapter rep? From 1969 to 2006 conventions were BOD meetings, chapter reps were members of the board, their voices were heard, their votes counted and all of their decisions were final. At the 2006 convention national officers resolution #2 was passed to have a second BOD made up of the 4 national officers and 3 more elected from the membership. A part of that resolution gave this new board the authority to change any decision made at the convention including the budget. (by the way that is illegal) That permission cannot be given. That violates Roberts Rules of Law & the DC Code.

Jim

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I think National is spending enough already. Money is tight for everyone.. That is why chapters need to earn their own money... Many things were done at the chapter level years ago which today do not exist, or are funded by National...

Involvement is the key..

I know, that is why I said "Wishful" thinking.

However, we hold fund raisers all year long. We have the budget for it but when we raise funds our big thing is that we do it to help out others.

Now, to me, and a few others, it does not seem right to raise money for helping children’s hospitals, schools, Habitat for Humanity, Holiday food baskets just to name a few. Then turn around and spend some of that money for a one week stay at Vegas plus air fair. That is a big chunk of change; I realize that it's for the good of the order, but it seams like false advertising.

Now, that is just my opinion. I’m also sure that there are many arguments to the contrary and they are all valid points, I have heard them. However it does not change the way I feel.

How many others feel the same way (no need to answer that)?

We are very invloved here at the Baltimore Chapter. However, holding a fund raiser just for this purpose has not crossed my mind. I will bring that up at our next meeting.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Ron,
What you need to remember is that your trip to Vegas is a business trip.. Hopefully, the needs, problems & desires of the CPOA will be addressed at that business meeting. Perhaps you need to look at the National Convention as the "Heart"... if it doesn't work, nothing else will...

MCPO Bridges was the President of the Baltimore Chapter for many years...

Did you by chance know CWO Glenn Duncan?

Wray... :cool:

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

No, I don't know him.

I'm looking at the option of fund raising for the trip. However, we can't hold any fund raisers here at the ELC unless we have Legal sign off on it.

So, if the Campus CO does not like the idea of fund raising for this purpose, well, I'll just wait and see what our legal office says and how the CO feels about it.

:confused:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings All,

I cannot stress enough the importance of sending representation to convention. Do the extra fundraiser. It will be worth the effort. Wray hit it on the head. Convention is our annual business meeting. We, the membership, must communicate our vision for this great organization. We must communicate we want our organization to grow professionally and financially, as well as, become proactive with The Military Coalition.

Great participation in our annual meeting is how we let our leadership know they work for us.

Don't take away from all the good you do for people and organizations in your community. Do the extra fundraiser. Our organization will grow from it.

Charlie
PS: As long as you do not hold the fundraiser on a C G Unit and abide by the laws of your state, we do not have to ask what legal thinks. It is good to ask for information and opinions as needed, but I do not think we need their permission.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

It is hard to believe that I am still discussing this subject after 6 years, again I ask , is the CPOA convention a BOD or a members meeting? Charlie said that it is important to send chapter representation ( a delegate ) , at a members meeting there are no delegates, its one member one vote......BOD meetings have delegates. There being 52 chapters, there can be 52 primary delegates, each delegates is counted as one (1) vote. If a delegate was allowed at a members meeting (example) e-city delegate could control approx 400 votes, north florida would control approx 20 votes. could the delegate split his vote ? say 50 aye, 72 nay & 132 abstain. At every convention there is a roll call by chapter, this is done to determine if a quorum is present, if this is a BOD meeting then there must be at least 1/3 of the primary delegates in their seats......There is nothing in the CPOA bylaws about even conducting a members meeting. what would a quorum of members be ? How would you call the roll of the 10,000 members entitled to vote ? I ask that you all read the law, the CPOA is incorporated in the District of Columbia as a non-profit group and must at all times comply with their laws!!!! Log on to dccode.westgroup.com, go to title 29, chapter 3 nonprofit groups, subchapter I general for a list of laws.

I love the association
Jim

[PACS Steve Carleton]

As long as you do not hold the fundraiser on a C G Unit and abide by the laws of your state, we do not have to ask what legal thinks. It is good to ask for information and opinions as needed, but I do not think we need their permission.

Some Commanding Officers do not want to have things like ticket raffles, etc. on their facilities.

Some of the frustration for people is that they want to do good things n the community, raise money, give donations, buy gifts for needy children at Christmas, etc. But when yo look at where the money goes in a lot of cases it is covering overhead(rent, insurance, etc.) leaving very little for what we tell people we are using it for.

When people donate their time to raise money for a worthy cause or even part with their hard earned cash to buy a raffle ticket, etc. can we honestly look them in the eye and tell them that every penny they just gave you is going to a worthy cause and not just buy a plane ticket for someone to go to a convention in Las Vegas?

When it comes down to that, there are plenty of other organizations that people can donate their time and money to that people can truly see a tangible benefit to their community, (Volunteer Rescue Squads, Boy Scouts, Church Groups, etc.)

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Hi Ron

I was a 4 time president in Baltimore and had many, many ways to raise money I would be glad to share ideas with you. Before the chapter could afford the trip I and others paid our own way to conventions so once we got the chapter on its feet we did use chapter funds for the conventions. We did not hold a fund raiser just for that purpose.

All national non-profit associations, red cross, FRA, etc all hold meeting requiring travel, members are never expected to pay their own way. Don't feel bad when you do.

Jim

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Well Jim, I can tell you we surly don't have a problem raising funds. Actually, in the last 2 years we have more than tripled our available balance. We can actually help out when anyone has needs and worry about the "Fund Raiser" later.

[CMC Isherwood]

PACS Carleton,
While I do not doubt your CPOA fund raising experiences. What you are saying does not reflect the proper administration of the process. When a Chapter is raising funds locally for a specific event (ie..Katrina relief) ALL funds unless CLEARLY stated otherwise are SUPPOSED to go to that cause.

An example of what is OK,
"The Hawaiian Islands Chapter of the CPOA is sponsoring a fund raising event with XX percent going to the Thanksgiving food drive." The total funds are collected and the advertised % goes to the T-Day food drive.

An example of what is not OK.
"The Golden Gate Chapter of the CPOA is sponsoring a fund raising event for the Thanksgiving food drive." The total funds are collected and the Chapter decides to divvy up the proceeds to other causes.

Before anyone gets nervous, both examples are purely fictional and for demonstrative purposes only.

The CPOA Chapters are doing great things for the CG, the community, and the CPOA membership. And above ALL remember, the CPOA is the ONLY organization in the world run by CG Chiefs, for CG Chiefs and their families, and the CG community.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

And that first example give me some Ideas that I will bring up at our next meeting. Which happens to be next week.:D

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

It is hard to believe that I am still discussing this subject after 6 years, again I ask , is the CPOA convention a BOD or a members meeting? Charlie said that it is important to send chapter representation ( a delegate ) , at a members meeting there are no delegates, its one member one vote......BOD meetings have delegates. There being 52 chapters, there can be 52 primary delegates, each delegates is counted as one (1) vote. If a delegate was allowed at a members meeting (example) e-city delegate could control approx 400 votes, north florida would control approx 20 votes. could the delegate split his vote ? say 50 aye, 72 nay & 132 abstain. At every convention there is a roll call by chapter, this is done to determine if a quorum is present, if this is a BOD meeting then there must be at least 1/3 of the primary delegates in their seats......There is nothing in the CPOA bylaws about even conducting a members meeting. what would a quorum of members be ? How would you call the roll of the 10,000 members entitled to vote ? I ask that you all read the law, the CPOA is incorporated in the District of Columbia as a non-profit group and must at all times comply with their laws!!!! Log on to dccode.westgroup.com, go to title 29, chapter 3 nonprofit groups, subchapter I general for a list of laws.

I love the association
Jim

I'm still waiting to see what CHARLIE or KEVIN have to say about this...

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings everyone,

We can get into some long drawn out converstation about procedure, but all anyone has to do is read Robert's Rules of Order, section concerning Conventions. This defines a convention and delegates. You will also find how a quorum is acquired during a convention. And in Robert's one can discover a meeting of the membership and its' procedure.

Through 2006 our convention has been primarily a Board of Directors meeting. Starting in 2007 Delegates will be representing the membership. (see above)

note:
1. A membership meeting is not a convention. (see above)

Hopefully this little tidbit clears up some procedural issues. As for my earlier statement, I submit it is extremely important to send representation to our annual convention. We are an organization with purpose. We cannot always think the elected officers will always do the right things. This is our (the membership's) organization. We decide how and what we want our organization to do. It is the Officers and Board of Directors job to carry out what the membership desires for our organization. Procedure is important and must be followed but what is really important is our purpose and how we serve the membership. What is really important is our growth and growth potential. What is really important is our fiscal standing. What is really important is meeting today's standards in conducting business. And, What is really, really important is the people, organizations, communities, and Coast Guard we support. We must set the vision and direction of CPOA.

Charlie

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

To all
Charlie Womack is one of the hardest working chiefs the CPOA has and I have the up-most respect for him, we just have different opinions. He refers to Roberts Rules of Order & I refer to the DC code.

Roberts Rules of Order have nothing to do with the law. Roberts is simply a book on how to conduct meetings, it is used by groups from churches to the congress of this great country. It has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with the law, it is a book on parliamentry procedure.

Charlie, I ask that you think of the DC code as being commandants instructions which are the laws that all CG units operate under. I think back to the mid 1980's when as the 1st district cea (cmc) a comdt instruction came out that did away with crew neck tee shirts & wellington boots, a month or so later I visited a WHEC to talk with the crew, when I walked on to the mess deck I noticed several of the crew wearing crew neck tee shirts, I ask why, they said the XO authorized it, later, I ask the XO he said indeed he had, I looked down and saw that he was wearing wellington boots, I ask him who he was to over-ride the commandant and told him that the next time I saw him in them I would put him on report (that was my duty) he got rid of the boots.

The DC code is the same thing, the laws that all non-profit groups registered there must comply with. If you don't want to comply with their laws don't incorporate there.. DC code 29-301.05 General powers (12) Each corporation shall have the power to make and alter bylaws, not inconsistant with the laws of the district of Columbia

29-301.99 Action by key members or directors without meeting, written consent required. When the national president decided on his own to hold a special election he violated this section of the law.

Now lets talk about a members vote, you say "starting in 2007 delegates will be representing the membership" Question, As a chapter delegate for many years, who was I representing back then if not the membership? What does the law say, DC code 29-301.16 Voting
1. A member entitled to vote may vote in person or may authorize another person to act for such member by proxy.
(A) A member may execute a writing authorizing another person to act for the member as proxy
(b) or may authorize by phone, telegram, etc.
Bottom line if you are speaking for or voting for me you better have my permission and be able to prove it, even if you are from my chapter you don't speak for me.

In 2001 The national president & national VP submitted to the district of Columbia new articles of incorporation which stated " this is to certify that at a regular meeting of the membership, with a quorum present these articles received the unamimus vote of the membership" 1st there was never a members meeting, and never a members quorum. Question What is the penalty for submitting a false document. answer: a $500.00 fine and up to a year in jail.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

When I 1st entered this forum I said that I wanted to have a honest discussion about the CPOA, conventions & anything else relating to the association. I ask several questions regarding statements made by others here, as of today I have received 0 responses. With every statement I have made I back up with a reference to confirm such statements, no one has come forward to contest them. Since the bylaws were rewritten in 2000 I have attended 3 conventions at my own expense, driven a few thousand miles in a attempt to get the association back in proper working order, I have discussed the law with every chief who would listen. I submitted several resolutions through my chapter to help being the association into compliance with the law, While everyone agreed that they were in order, they would not forwarded them to the convention for fear of rocking the boat. I can only ask, What in the world are you people afraid of. Oh by the way the associations own lawyer Mr. Lippert agrees with me and has told the national officers so.

I'm sorry members are not up to the task
Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
I couldn't agree more with you.... It appears the active duty side doesn't really want to jump in with both feet and take charge... As I remember things, while you and I were active duty, the clear majority of the work was done by those on active duty.. There were several dedicated, hard working retirees.. today it seems to be the reverse.

As you have pointed out, here as with many other things there are many that don't want to "make waves"... Is real leadership that hard?

Come on active duty folks, let's get some opionions here.. Jim has asked some good questions.. does anyone really give a damn or not?

Jim, perhaps you should run for president next time around.. I suspect that is the only way things would get back on track..

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Remind us what the questions were.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Deane, There are many more questions than answers. All anyone has to do is compare the CPOA bylaws to the DC code to understand how far out of wack the association really is. I'll ask a few again

1. Is the CPOA convention a members meeting or BOD meeting ?

2. If its a members meeting, how many members must be in attendence to have a quorum ?

3. If this New BOD can change decisions made at the convention, including rewriting the budget, why make those decision and waste money to attend ?

4. The law & Roberts rules of Order says that this new BOD is suborinate to the convention delegates and may not modify anything done by them, so please explain # 3 above ?

5. Deane, you said in a earlier thread thats it important for chapters to send a rep to the convention, I ask why ?

6. Does the national president have the authority to select the convention sites ?

7. If the answer to #6 is no then how does he get away with it. Where is the report and recommendation of the convention committee ?

8. Charlie said " IN 2007 delegates will start representing members " As a chapter rep. for many years, who was I representing before ?

9. If one wants to become a convention delegate for the members, how do you do it ?

10. From 1969 to 2000 The national office was run by the four (4) national officers, the pres, VP , Sec & treas., Why in 2007 does that job now require seven (7) ? and yes it is a added expense. There is a NO's & BOD meeting starting this sunday, I hope the BOD boycotts it.

Deane, With all due respect I could go on for hours. I was promoted to chief feburary 1969 and joined in that year, I have been a active members of 8 chapters & president of 4, I have attended many conferences & conventions since then and I just hate it when members try to BS me.

Thanks for asking & I wecome anyone who reads this to respond.
Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
Thanks for laying out the questions for all to read, think about and answer. You have a wealth of knowledge and information that is very valuable to thse that choose to use it.... I would really like to see those on active duty take the ball and run with it.

Unfortunately, there is a very small group here that seem to show any interest at all in the CPOA. I believe that is something that is CG wide as well. Nothing would please me more than to have me proven wrong on those statements, but I'd need hard facts to believe otherwise.

We'll see just how much is done right here with the information you have provided.

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did. I've only been to one convention, so my experience is limited. I thought (maybe it's changed) that the chapter representative was a voting member of the quarom which had to be present. Reading your post maybe that has changed. I guess I'm confused. I'm certainly not trying to BS anyone...if I misspoke it was just that.

I know nothing about the DC Code and very little about the Robert Rules of Order.

I think what happens is that most people are active at the chapter level and know nothing (or very little) about the stuff that goes on at the National level.

I personally did not vote for Jon Shipp at the last election and can't really understand how he won the election with nearly everyone that I know feeling the same as I do.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Wray & Deane Thanks to you both for helping to keep this discussion going, Deane I wasn't refering to you with my BS comment, they know who they are. The national officers are trying to make the convention a membership meeting, that is impossible!!!!!, they can't get enough members to have a quorum, that is why I keep asking the question. The national officers are trying to have a members meeting but still have chapter delegates, they can't have it both ways. At a BOD meeting there are no member votes and at a members meeting there are no chapter delegates, these xxxxx (and I call them that because I have pointed out the law on this for over six (6) years) refuse to obey the law. The associations own lawyer advised them of the law, they still refuse to comply. In the bylaws section on meetings there is not even a mention of a members meeting, let alone how to conduct one.

There is only one way to fix this Jon Shipp rules (dictates) that is for the BOD (chapter presidents) to put a stop to it, then form a bylaws committee to put the bylaws back into compliance with the law. I would be happy to serve on such a committee and would pay all my own expence.

Thanks again
Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Deane,
There are several that don't know as much as they thought they did... myself included.... Each time I attended a convention it was a learning experience... of course the social end was WONDERFUL too!

Since the Chapters do not want to host a convention for various reasons, yes I know it is a lot of work... I guess I will have to wait until there is one closer to the East Coast.... I didn't leave anything in Vegas other than some extra money I had... at the time.

As you can see from the number of posts on this topic it is not a hot issue with many.... Pretty disappointing in my opinion.

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

1. Is the CPOA convention a members meeting or BOD meeting? Through 2006 our convention was a Board of Directors meeting. The Chapter Presidents are no longer the Board of Directors. Please, Please read the section in Robert's concerning CONVENTIONS.

2. If its a members meeting, how many members must be in attendence to have a quorum ?And this meets the standard of DC Code, A majority of Delegates registered as attending. You will also find this in the convention section of Roberts.

3. If this New BOD can change decisions made at the convention, including rewriting the budget, why make those decision and waste money to attend ?
Incorrect statement. Since 1969 (since some want to go back that far) this has been done by the National Officers. They cannot change the budget however we have always and will always rely on a body to MANAGE our funds and other business throughout the year. To believe we as a deliberative assembly can account for every emergency and contingency during one week a year is absurb.

4. The law & Roberts rules of Order says that this new BOD is suborinate to the convention delegates and may not modify anything done by them, so please explain # 3 above ?see 3 above

5. Deane, you said in a earlier thread thats it important for chapters to send a rep to the convention, I ask why ?I answered this in an earlier reply. The membership better get on board at convention or we live with what we got. The National Officers doing as they please.

6. Does the national president have the authority to select the convention sites ?NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT, AND A RATIFICATION VOTE WILL BE CALLED FOR.

7. If the answer to #6 is no then how does he get away with it. Where is the report and recommendation of the convention committee ?The last committee did not have a selection report ready (not enough replies to areas they were seeking) at the last convention. It then would be a BOD process to set the 2007 convention. Not the President, but I believe he took it on his own. Another NO NO. And not even the BOD has authority to select 2008. That is to be done at convention.

8. Charlie said " IN 2007 delegates will start representing members " As a chapter rep. for many years, who was I representing before ? Hopefully you represented the members of your chapter, just as the Convention Delegates will continue to represent them.

9. If one wants to become a convention delegate for the members, how do you do it ?Currently, see our By Laws. The future is yet to be decided, but a resolution for change is in the works.

10. From 1969 to 2000 The national office was run by the four (4) national officers, the pres, VP , Sec & treas., Why in 2007 does that job now require seven (7) ? and yes it is a added expense. There is a NO's & BOD meeting starting this sunday, I hope the BOD boycotts it.Jim, I cannot remember how many times I have told you to quit living in the past. The year is 2007. Just look at any current calendar. What worked in the 1900's simply will not work today. Point, if Donald Trump ran his company today as he did 30 years ago, he would not be on TV and the talk of the town. CPOA ran as they did in 1969 for 30 years. We did not grow, CCCAF did not become self sufficient, our own cofers has always been year to year. We still are not doing the above for many reasons. It is time to quit thinking about the past and start thinking with a vision. We do not have the Active Duty because we will not keep up with them. They were raised differently. They are better educated, have better equipment, can communicate in an instant, carry rasberries, or strawberries or what every they call them new fangled things that we did not have and they seek value in every decision they make. Until we move forward and catch up with them they will be reluctant. Until CPOA starts acting like CHIEF's we will also not grow the CGEA, and they are our future.

Jim

I always thought some things were amiss, but as the National V P my eyes were opened. I will be at convention, I will bring up ratification votes, some folks are going to be called to task. This one should be GOOD! Either get on board or just sit back and enjoy the ride, your choice. And If you are going to continue to push your agenda, Jim, have you renewed your membership yet?

I hope I have not violated the Rules of Engagement and If I have I apologize.
Charlie

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Charlie

My friend, You talk all day but never say anything. My question # 1 was Is the convention a BOD or Members meeting, Simple question requiring a simple answer, BOD or MEMBERS. No double talk please.

You seem to think that you can change a word and get a new meaning, call it a meeting, conference, convention, assembly or anything else you desire, but at the end of the day you either had a BOD or MEMBERS meeting.......

My question #2 If its a members meeting, how many members must be present, here again charlie, gibberish. The quetion requires a number. I am printing this section of the law. DC code 29-301.17 quorum: (a) The bylaws may provide the number or percentage of members entitled to vote represented in person or by proxy, or the number or percentage of votes represented in person or by a proxy, which shall constitute a quorum at a meeting of MEMBERS. In the absents of any such provisions, members having at least one-tenth of the votes entitled to be cast represented in person or by proxy shall constitute a quorum. Charlie if you have 10,000 members entitled to vote, how many must be in attendence???? You say ( a majority of delegates registered as attending) What in the world does that mean? At a BOD meeting the bylaws are clear a quorum is 1/3rd of the chapter presidents in their seats. and thats thanks to me, I submitted the resolution that lowered that number from majority to 1/3 which is allowed by law. The old way before the change 45 chapters required a minimum of 23 be in their seats, my resolution changed that to 1/3rd or 15 of 45 as allowed by law.

Question # 3 Was real simple, if someone can throw out the work of the folks attending the convention, then why waste the time, effort & money???? , it just seems plain dumb to me charlie. National Officers resolution #2 clearly gives this new BOD that authority, READ IT, It even lets the president turn the budget over to the ED a salaried employ to send as he see's fit, how dumb is that?

Charlie, my suggestion to you is put away Roberts & pick-up the law.

I'll get to your other responses in a short while.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Back to you Charlie

Lets start with my question # 10, why 7 to do what 4 did before, Again nothing but double talk, NO answer, you again told me to stop living in the past, you talked about Donald Trump, the CCCAF,etc but you never explained what and why, I'm sorry more BS!!! This is the same thing I got from the national officers for the past 6 years!!! Simple answers to simple questions is all I'm seeking

My ? #9 How do you become a delegate, simple ?, you refered me to the bylaws which say nothing, you say its being worked on.

I wish all you folks would stop beating around the bush, please just give it to me straight, I can take it.

Charlie all these changes I have said are illegal, I said run them by our lawyer and if I'm proven wrong I'll pay the lawyers fee, as with the NO's no takers.

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie all these changes I have said are illegal, I said run them by our lawyer and if I'm proven wrong I'll pay the lawyers fee, as with the NO's no takers.

WOW, seems pretty straight forward, and more than fair to me....

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Charlie you say that I am living in the past, that things are different in 2007, 1st I am open to change, I'm old (pushing 70) & I'm slow, but not that old or slow as to allow myself to be run over by some fast talking people just because they have the floor.

I am all for this new set-up of 4 national officers & 3 new BOD members, but, having said that, with them in place as the decision makers I can see absolutely no reason to hold a "old fashion convention" that dates back to the 60's Please explain this WHAT IS THE PURPOSES OF THE CONVENTION?

The only purposes that I can come up with is a annual boon doggle to Las vegas for the national president at members expense and there he gets to hold a town hall meeting which has nothing to do with the general order of business spelled out in the bylaws.

Charlie as I told Doug Robertson, Tim Trimble & Jon Shipp and I'm telling you I'll help in anyway I can,but it must be legal. A c&BL committee needs to be appointed to do a complete review of the bylaws and make recommendation to the BOD/

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

A c&BL committee needs to be appointed to do a complete review of the bylaws and make recommendation to the BOD.

That certainly sounds like something that needs to be done...

The train is off the track.. time to get it back on and move ahead... Perhaps if there was proper organization more would show an interest.

Jim, where is Doug Robertson now? I haven't seen or heard from him in years..

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Final Thoughts

I am not going to argue here. The questions were asked and I answered them. Accept them or not it is the best I can do.

As the National V P I spent a great deal of time with the By Laws. And as advised by Master Chief, I have read and hold copy of the applicable section to D C Code. I will not say things are perfect, but they are not illegal. Through my Chapter we are submitting 6 changes to the convention.

As for the BOD, Code states we may change it by amendment to the By Laws.
We did that, The B O D is now 7 not 45

Convention is not a word that changes member or Board. What is does is give how the particular meeting is run including how to establish quorum. To be more precise;

"As commonly understood in parliamentary law and as used in this book the word conventions refers to an ASSEMBLY OF DELEGATES who are usually chosen specially for each session AS REPRESENTATIVES of the constituent units or subdivisions within a larger group of people, to sit as a single deliberative body acting in the name of the entire group. The most common type of convention is that of an established state or national society in which the delegates are selected by, and from among the members of the local unit."
We are required to have a meeting of members and the absolute best way to do this is through the convention process. No matter how hard you try A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERSHIP WILL NOT SHOW UP TO CONVENTION so there is no need to keep mudding up the waters with a so called "of the membership quorum" Also by code the only required meeting of all members is to change the Articles of Incorporation. We can call that without a section in the B L's.

As for quorum code says our bylaws can establish a percentage or number and that number is MAJORITY meaning 50% plus 1. Eligibility is determined by who registers at convention. It is no more clearer than that.

You may spend your time and money if you wish, but there is no need to have our National Staff spend association time and money on this. An attorney will agree with you only if you do not ask the question properly.

This is my last one this thread, I hope everyone decides on their own the merits of this discussion.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Until we move forward and catch up with them they will be reluctant. Until CPOA starts acting like CHIEF's we will also not grow the CGEA, and they are our future.

Charlie, Kevin or anyone else -----> This brings up an interesting point.... How long is the CGEA going to ride on the coat tails of the CPOA? Remembering back when they were first established, I was quite surprized when I saw them in The CHIEF Magazine. When I questioned it at that time, I was told the CPOA was going to take them in under their wing for a one or two year period. Just long enough for them to get their feet on the ground. They now seem to be a perminent part of our magazine, & organization. How long has it been now? Isn't it long enough? Could this possibly be a reason some Chiefs have distanced themselves from the CPOA? If it is to continue, perhaps it is time to rename the magazine.

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Wray

Doug is living out in NE section of New Mexico & is a member of the Las Vegas chapter, He was here in Charleston two years ago and came over for a visit. I'll send you his e-mail address.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

For 37 years chapter presidents were members of the Board of Directors, now charlie tells us that they are no longer, he tells us that they voted to give up that responsibility that the members of their chapter had placed on them, they could not handle the job so they sluffed it off on the poor national officers and 3 elected members (thats sad). Now at convention time they are not BOD, they are delegates, they are representatives, they have no official standing, they may now only make recommendations to the seven (7) leaders who can now completely ignore them, and often did anyway. In the bylaws it is written that the national officers answer to the BOD, who do they answer to now, they are the BOD. (answer) they answer to no one.

The chapter presidents are no longer decision makers, their actions at the conventions are no longer binding on the NO's, They are now only allowed to make recommendations which they could phone in or e-mail to the national office and save a pile of money. So I ask if ANYONE out there can explain this to a old man, why would any chapter pay for this. The harder question is why a chapter president who voted away his responsibilities would want to show back up ? Where is the leadership ?

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I will be the first to admit, for the lst 7 years since I retired I have had very little to do with the CPOA. In fact, while in Louisville KY I didn't have much to do wdith them, but prior to that I was fairly active. It sure seems like there was a lot more organization & leadership present yers ago.

I also don't see many active other than Charlie commenting here. (Kevin, your up....) Does this not interest them at all? Don't they want to get the organization back on track?

By Laws are set up for very specific reasons. They seemed to be overlooked. I only hope someone can straighten things out before the CPOA becomes an organization everyone wants to stay away from. Since I'm already in it for 'life', I hope things get resolved.

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Isherwood]

I don't know what is lawful or not, nor if it "really" matters to me. What follows is purely my personal opinion;

The convention is where the CPOA as a national organization conducts it's business. Each chapter should send a delegate (Primary, Alternate or Proxy) to represent that chapter's interests. During the convention, the "accredited" delegates decide the direction that the CPOA National Officers (NO) are to head in. At the conclusion of the convention, the NO should start rowing in the direction that the membership (represented by the accredited delegates) directed them to go.

Unfortunately, far too often it appears that we go to convention only to experience Ground Hog Day (did you see the movie?) And we go over the same stuff that did not get done between conventions. A saying comes to mind, "Gather to commit, disperse and forget".

We (the CPOA) need to remain relevant to today’s active duty chief petty officers or we will continue to experience declining membership numbers. At the chapter level the CPOA continues to do GREAT things.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

We (the CPOA) need to remain relevant to today’s active duty chief petty officers or we will continue to experience declining membership numbers. At the chapter level the CPOA continues to do GREAT things.

And therein lies the issue Master Chief, the relevence to today's Active Duty Chief Petty Officer.

As today's Chief's look at the Association, most leave or just don't bother signing up in the first place. They read the brochures look through the literature and get an idea of what the association is doing on their behalf; voice in Congress, etc., but there are damn few if any deliverables that a rank and file member can point to and say, the CPOA represented me and my interests well on that issue.

Please point to one piece of legislation that had significant impact to our Coast Guard men and women that was championed by the CPOA? I know we are members of the Military Coalition, but what are the issues that the coalition is fighting for on our behalf?

I viewed the Military Coalition Website and there are 9 legislative standing committees, of which the CPOA Executive Director is a member of 5. In not one issue of the Chief Magazine or via e-mail have I seen anything communicated to or from the Coalition to me as a rank and file member of the CPOA. Nor has there been any effort to fire up the membership and entice them to write their congressional representatives on an issue.

So where is the relevence?

The local chapters are doing great things out there, things the Chief's Mess as a whole should be doing anyway.

If the only thing we can point to is that this is an organization by and for Coast Guard Chief Petty Officers, that alone isn't enough to carry us and maintain us as a viable national veteran's type organization.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

1st thanks to both steve & Kevin for their input, It is important who manages the association. The law says that it shall be managed by a board of Directors. In the past we have had trouble getting enough candidates to run for the four (4) national offices, what in the world makes anyone think that all of a sudden we can get enough to run for seven (7) offices, and what happens to the association when there are not enough to fill the vacancies, and mark my word this is going to happen. The national officers keep submitting resolutions with little if any thought, it just sounds good. the convention delegates just keep signing off on them and make them law. I urge all to resend NO's resolution #2.

In the early years of the association (and yes charlie I am living in the past) the CPOA was deeply in debt, we were spending money we didn't have, in the mid 1970's we went to a 0 base budget and could no longer spend that way, only what we had, we worked our way out of the deep hole that we had dug, thanks to a strong BOD who oversaw every penny. After the rewriting of the bylaws in 2000 I decided to get involved again. This is one example of what I found. The BOD approved budget for 2002

Line Item # 535-010 Computer/software BOD authorized $3,500.00
After the convention the national officers changed that to $17,033.00 without BOD approval.

Line item #545-010- ED local travel BOD authorized $250.00, spent $642.06

Line item #580-010 CPO academy support BOD $2,300, National officers spent $5,009.00, it appears that instead of one going 2 Decided to go, hell, its not their money.

Line item #700-020 Convention committee 4,500.00 this is to buy everything for the convention, I've done alot of these kind of affairs but never had one come out right to the penny $4,500.00

At the bottom of the budget sheet under "Source of Funds" Was a statement, taken from saving account $66,723.00 which I could not find in the BOD budget, I ask the then President , never did get a answer.

Bottom line we need the chapter president as the BOD to protect their chapter members money!!!!

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

It no wonder that I & others are confused. Jon, Tim & Charlie all keep saying that changes to the bylaws require the vote of the membership. Section IX of the CPOA bylaws also says changes can be made only with the approval of the membership. If in the entire history of the CPOA there has never been a membership meeting, how did all these changes take place. Charlie admitted in a question I ask earlier, and I quote " Through 2006 our conventions were Board of Directors meetings " The BOD by our own bylaws cannot change the bylaws, only the membership can. That means that anything changed in the bylaws by the BOD was unauthorized as only the membership can make these changes. These folks will try to twist words around to make it OK, but the simple fact is they are WRONG, WRONG.

Another quote from Charlie " A majority of delegates registered as attending"
However the bylaws say " A simple majority of members registered as attending". There is a world of difference between a member and a delegate.

Anyway it can be read, any change to the bylaws by the BOD was illegal and violates our own bylaws.

Jim

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim,
I have attended the last 12 conventions and to the best of my recollection (which fades annually) the folks in the "room" both at the "table" (accredited delegates) and in those the seats (general members) behind the accredited delegates voted on the vast majority of issues. But...there were certain issues that only the Chapter Presidents present voted on. The Presidents Outstanding Chapter Award (POCA) comes to mind as an example.

What follows is only my PERSONAL opinion. If you, a general member, take the time out of your life and pay the expense to attend the convention your voice should be heard via your vote. Again, I have no idea what is "legal' nor do I truly care. I do know this though; it is NO FUN to attend the business meetings when you can not participate in the issue at hand. For this reason, if I am not an accredited delegate for my Chapter, I ALWAYS seek and receive a "proxy" for another Chapter. This ensures that my voice is heard no matter who the President is. On several occasions I voted against my conscience because the Chapter I was representing provided me specific direction.

Remaining in my personal opinion, too many members that do not regularly attend convention are unclear of National's purpose. Someone said, "a monthly letter from National should be sent to the Chapters keeping them informed". That letter, along with membership stats is sent to every Chapter President; the expectation is that the letter will be discussed at the next Chapter meeting. I have been a member of many Chapters and if the current President is not properly mentored by a more CPOA savvy Chief, that President just does not know the big picture. Clear communication is a key to our overall CPOA success.

If a Chief is interested in "how it works" beyond the Chapter level, I strongly recommend that they attend a convention. Too often, the time a member sees how it really works is when they have been thrust into the delegate position and are attending convention for their first time. This can be overwhelming for the first timer.

I was fortunate to have been properly mentored at convention by the likes of my father, Bill Schott, Bill Belch, John Chasserau, Jack Crowley, George Overmyer, Walt Gore, Frank Albright, Patty Butler and even Dick Wells in his prime. Tim Lackey saved my %&* many, many times when I was President of the Seattle Chapter. There was just too much to know and no one where to learn "it" from without engaged guidance. I thank them ALL for their patience, sage advice and strong leadership. Without their assistance I would NOT be so involved with the CPOA today.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I have intentionally withheld comment for several reasons.

1. I have never been to a convention.
2. This is somewhat confusing as I have not been involved in national level politics of the CPOA.
3. While I see a great deal of disfunction and confusion at the national level, I choose to attempt to gain a little insight before reaching my own conclusions.
4...

Those that know me know that I almost always have an opinion, and to a fault, I almost always share it. So here goes...

It seems to me that the immediate problem is with symantics. Members, Delegates, BOD... I liken this to national presidential politics. The RNC and DNC each have a convention to nominate a candidate. Each party sends DELEGATES to represent a constituency. There is not room enough to get a majority of party members to a convention. That said, it seems to me that if there are a simple majority of DELEGATES from chapters in attendance and those DELEGATES are not sworn as BOD members, then it is a convention of the membership. As long as the DELEGATES have a vote to excersize. If only the members that are sworn BOD members vote and make decisions, then it would be a BOD meeting with membership watching.

So now I have to ask, what is it? Who has a vote? Is it delegates or BOD members? That will at least clear up the first of many questions regarding the validity of the CPOA as an organization.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

" I have no idea what is "legal" nor do I truly care"

Wow Kevin what a statement from a CMC, that is the same attitude that these national officers have. NO ONE GIVE A DAMN. The CPOA has a set of bylaws that are totally disregarded, I pointed out several violation in this thread. No one gives a Damn We incorporated in Washington DC as a non-profit organization and promised to comply with their laws, we are in violation of these laws, that means the association lied & is still lying. NO ONE GIVES A DAMN The CPOA adopted Roberts Rules of Order as its manual on parliamentary procedure and then disregards all its procedures. NO ONE GIVES A DAMN I sorry Kevin but means that the association is phony, in my opinion anyone who knowingly violates or allows others to violate our bylaws, DC code & Roberts is not fit to serve in any capacity. If this lives up to the association motto, I fail to see it , those good men you named, some who have crossed the bar would turn over in their graves if they could see the don't give a damn attitude of todays members. What does this say about the character of todays chiefs. The best thing that the members can do today is throw the bylaws, DC code and Roberts out the window and just do any damn thing you want, any way you want at least you won't be phony.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

" I have no idea what is "legal" nor do I truly care"

Sure doesn't sound like a plug for serious leadership or "core values"...

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim,
I admire your passion, however, it is misguided. You can’t QUIT the CPOA then still complain about how it is being run. I have read your CPOA rants for several years now, you have not swayed me. Jim, just because YOU think you are right, does not make it so.

Believe it or not Jim, there are MANY, MANY Chiefs in the CPOA that are progressive in thought and equally aggressive in action for the overall good of the organization. If they need you, I am pretty sure someone will give you a call or send you an email. Why don’t you go wait by the phone?

Wray,
Sometimes the written word is misunderstood by the reader, could you elaborate on your comment?

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

I truly wanted to stay out of this, however, this is getting out of hand.

For Jim Madsen, Starting in 2007 our convention will be a meeting of delegates representing their respective membership of each chapter. In an earlier post I placed the definition of a Convention of Delegates from Roberts Rules of Order. During convention there is one exception to the above. By Laws Changes is where every member in good standing has priviledge of the floor and a vote. I could go on for ever here but do not wish to clog the thread. Feel free to email me with questions and I will try to answer them.

For Jim B and Wray, I assure you, and you may quote me on this, there is no one and I mean no one who cares more and works harder for this organization than Master Chief Isherwood. Just read every committee report he has done, and the fact he wins one of our recruiting awards annually. I also believe (apology if wrong) he is the only CMC who has dared discussion on this forum for CPOA. For anyone to question his leadership or sincere desire for a great organization is absurb. The leadership is responsiblile for the legality of CPOA. Members as a whole do not study the DC Code but rely on our leaderhship to ensure we are in compliance. (which we are)

I had to research the budget that Jim B eluded to earlier, and will tell you the BOARD OF DIRECTORS authorized (not intentionally) those changes. During the 2001 convention in Tulsa the Pres was called back to his unit on Wed. On Thursday we passed the budget. According to the minutes we went to The Good of the Order on Thursday just before we recessed for the day. On Friday a motion was made to reconsider the budget. Passed. This did away with the previous budget. The changes (cuts in spending) were made and passed. After convention the Pres sent a letter ballot out to the Chapter Presidents telling them the action was improper because we did not go back into new business and it was listed in the minutes under the Good of the Order. He also stated we could not operate under the current budget and asked the Chapter Presidents to vote to rule the budget as passed out of order. THEY DID!. To my knowledge there was no new budget submitted nor action to return to the previous budget.

One area the delegates made and created a problem, they passed a motion to upgrade our really old and out of date computer system during the 2001 convention but failed to put a price tag on it. We waited an entire year to purchase the new equipment so surpluses from other line items could be used for this MANDATED upgrade.

I do not care how you word it, Management of this organization is a year round 365 day job. You can rant all you want, but every contingency can not be forseen during a one week convention. NOT POSSIBLE. You have made reference that some officers might have done things that may skim if not outright violate our by laws, but it is the membership who keeps re-electing them. We have the means (internet) to mass communicate but apparently the membership did not get the word, and those in the know did not get involved enough to help campaign for new leadership.

One can keep writing about the problems, but I prefer to discuss solutions. Solutions like electing new leadership, solutions like joining the electronic age, improved communications to the membership. The solution is not going back to pre 2000. It is moving forward starting NOW and into the future. I saw a comment to do away with CGEA. How wrong can one be. The CGEA is the future of CPOA. Groom them now. Don't wait until they are Chief's. Please stop all the accusations and ranting, seek solutions, and always have a positive word for our organization. Together we can make it great. Apart we fail.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim Madsen Your question, "who has a vote ? is it delegate or BOD member"

My answer is you can even call the person a representative, please excuse me if I come off as being rude, crude & a know it all, I don't and never claimed to, however the questions I have raised I have discussed with the associations own lawyer. If you will read back over this thread, I ask several questions, see if you can find one straight answer.

This is my opinion, I hope you will share yours.

The USA is a democratic society
The CPOA is a democratic society

The USA has members, they are called tax payers
The CPOA has members, they are called dues payers

The USA members can vote in local and national elections
The CPOA members can vote in local and national elections

The USA members elect Delegates, representatives to represent them on a national level, lets call them congressmen.
The CPOA members elect delegates, representatives to represent them on a national level. lets call them chapter presidents, a Board of Director.

Lets call the congress & CPOA BOD the legislative branches of their societies.
and the president with his cabinet & the CPOA president and other national officers the executive branch.

It is the duty of the legislative branch to carry out the desires of their members, to pass laws, to approve all spending and to hold all members, including the president accountable.

On a national level congress convenes, the CPOA convention convenes, there are no members taking part in the business of either society (note) they may sit in the gallery and observe only. All things passed become the law of the land that all, including the executive branch must comply with. If you combine the two branches it becomes a dictatorship with no accountablity. Can you imagine the president going before congress and holding a town hall meeting, neither can I.

Jim, if you do go back through these threads and find any answers to any of my questions , please let me know. thanks

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Hey Jim, I just noticed in Charlie's last post he explained convention votes and said "during the convention there is one exception to the above. bylaws changes is where every member in good standing has prilivedge of the floor and a vote" 1st see if you can find where that is written.

This is exactly what I have been talking about, just think about it, the convention is in full swing, the delegates are conducting business and low and behold it comes times to vote on bylaws changes. Lets assume that there are twenty (20) chapter delegates with twenty (20) votes and I walk in with thirty (30) MAL's with thirty (30) votes, damn, we could take over the association using this logic. During the early part of the convention there is a roll call of chapters to insure that a quorum is present, when this order of business changes that allows members to vote is there another roll call of members to insure a quorum? If they would run this by the associations lawyer i know what his response would be, ARE YOU CRAZY.

Jim

PS: In my next thread I'll explain their definition of member in good standing, you just got to hear this!!!!!!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
Is the CPOA lawyer on a retention fund of some sort? If he is being paid by the CPOA can't he put something in writing to be passed at the convention of how illegally things are being done...

Wray.... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

wray, every decision rendered by the lawyer is in writing, he does receive a retainer, if the decision is not what the national officers want to hear then they just ignore it . EXAMPLE: The CPOA put together a executive committee that I told them was illegal, they ask the lawyer if they could have a Executive committee, he said sure. I pointed out that at least two (2) members of any such committee must be directors (BOD) this committee had none. so you see it all depends on the questions ask, The association no longer has a EC, that damn jim bridges.

By law the chapter presidents are the CPOA's BOD, they were elected by the membership to fill those positions, the laws says that they may not relieve themselves of their responsibilty. The law says that they can appoint a committee and that committee can be called a BOD but that committee is junior to the board that appointed them and may not modify any decision made by their senior. All anyone has to do is read the law concerning this to find the answer. When the national officers resolution # 2 was passed and said that they now had total control of the budget a red flag went up, the law says that nothing passed by the BOD at the convention may be modified by this junior group. The budget was passed by the convention BOD. This is why I said NO's resolution #2 was illegal, ask the lawyer and I'll live with the decision.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

HI jim MADSEN

As I promised here is some info on CPOA members in good standing. I attended the 2002 convention in Mobile alabama, during the convention meeting the president Tim Trimble ask all members in good standing to raise their hands, all hands went up, he then said all members paying dues of $24,00 raise their hand, alot of hands went down, I thought that we all paid the same dues, when the dues increase when into effect many members did not comply and didn't change their allotment. I left the convention confused.

I next attended the 2005 St. Louis convention, again the topic of member in good standing was being discussed, it had been determined that a member still paying $18.00 dues was still a member in good standing but could not seek national office, I rose and ask for a point of information. If I didn't seek national office could I lower my dues back to $18.00, why would anyone not seeking national office pay $24.00. As far as I know only the CPOA has members in good standing that pay two different ammounts, other associations that have members who fail to comply drop them from their rolls.

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

So, If I get this right, we pay a lawyer for his opinion, he give it to us in writing, and we (the organization) choose to totally disreguard it.... hummm

Sounds like a few things need to happen to me.. Either we quit paying the lawyer, or stand by his decisions... If those in office choose not to do this, perhaps we should get them out...

Wray...

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Jim,

And how long has the dues increase been in effect?

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Steve

For the life of me , I can't remember when the dues increase went into effect, I'm sure that tom can tell you, The last time I spoke to him about this he said there were a few also still paying $9.00. Many who failed to increase the dues are retiree's.

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I believe the dues increase was back around 2001 or so.... I think it is in the last CHIEF Magazine... Not sure.. the government has decided to put me up for a few days of training in Gainesville, FL.. Nothing like a few days of tad & per diem.. :D:D

I'll check it out when I get home....

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Master Chief Bridges, Please quote that law you keep talking about because I cannot find it.

DC Code 29 301 19 states "The number of directors may be increased or decreased from time to time by amendment of the By Laws." 29 301 18 states "The Articles of Incorporation or the By Laws may prescribe other qualifications for directors."

Our Articles of Incorporation addresses the initial B O D and states "number of persons who are to serve as the initial directors until the first annual meeting or until their successors be elected and qualified are:"(list of names etc) The qualification for B O D to be Chapter Presidents has only appeared in our By Laws and no where else. Our By Laws describe the qualification and number of directors not the "Code", and our By Laws may be changed from time to time. Our Articles also state "The by-laws of the Corporation provide for the regulation of it internal affairs of the corporation and include provisions detailing the duties of the officers and the Board of Directors."

Your statement: "the laws says that they may not relieve themselves of their responsibilty." simply does not exist.

You have also misguided anyone reading this about our dues. The discussion was about droping members who did not change their dues, (change allotment) and was not about being a member in good standing. To be a member in good standing you must be paying $24.00 annually or be a lifetime member. Those who do not pay the prescribed annual dues may not seek any elected office and may not vote. However, the delegates did not feel that just droping a longtime member who is paying by allotment was justified. It is better to keep them at $18 and provide a Magazine for their enjoyment (subscription is $11) than not have them at all. We do not have unlimited resourses as many of the other associations do, so we want to be careful about doing away with income.

We have had people elected to Chapter Officers who where not nor have ever been a member (that was changed and/or dealt with upon notification). I do not recall any $18 members being elected. They simply want to keep membership for the magazine. We continually publish the fact our dues changed but we have not gotten everyone yet. I know our National membership chairman and a couple of Chapter chairmen have continued to lower the number as they can contact them.

We no longer have an Executive Committee (E C) any longer, because with a managable B O D (which N O Resolution #2 gave us) we simply do not need one. I also have copy of a 2003 letter from our attorney that states "The committee, established by and through the By-Law provision, is clearly consonant with the District of Columbia Code." There simply was nothing wrong with our E C.

In closing, I drafted Resolution #2. I researched how other organizations were doing business and modeled ours accordingly. Everything in there meets every standard of DC Code and Roberts Rules. It does not in any way form a junior body or creates another body, it completely reorganized our Board of Directors (as is allowed by law and our own Articles of incorporation and by laws) into a managable deliberative body, that is to manage the affairs of the organization.

Charlie

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

MR. Womack

29.301.22 . BOD--Designation or appointment of committees; authority.

Last sentence "The designation and appointment of any such committee and the delegation thereto of authority shall not operate to relieve the board of directors, or any individual director, of any responsibility imposed upon it or him by law.

This is what I believe your resolution #2 violates, however I said if you run it by the lawyer and he agrees with you , I can live with it. It is my opinion that you did think you were forming a whole new board, but that does not make it so.

So Charlie if you are convinced that this is and was done legally, give it to the lawyer for his opinion, be sure to explain how many members voted for this and how many BOD members voted away their responsibilty. Just because you wrote that resolution, it does not make you an authority on the law any more then me.

Charlie and all who take the time to read this, I am on yours & Kevin's side in all of this. You have both said time & time again the president is running amuck, I agree, y'all want to spank his hand, I want to fire his butt.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

To all

I could not help but respond futher on this subject, I went back to the convention minutes to see who voted on resolution #2, this is what the records at that time show. Please keep in mind that this is a BOD meeting.

Of 45 chapters, 22 chapters were represented, 11 by primary delegates 8 by alternate delegates & 3 by proxy delegates THE VOTE ON NATIONAL OFFICERS RESOLUTION #2 WAS TAKEN , 27 YEA & 9 NO, if there was only 22 chapters represented how in the world did we get 36 votes, run that by the lawyer charlie. Of the 36 votes only 11 were chapter presidents (BOD) of the 45 total chapter presidents (BOD). That does not meet the requirements of 1/3 of the primary delegates.

This is a classic example of how this organization since 2000 has operated, McHales navy , now charlie you can continue to talk till your blue in the face, but you will never convince me and I doubt any one else that this was legal. 11 chapter presidents out of 45 voting away the responsibilitie of the 45. Are you sure this was a quorum ?

Oh , and charlie if the lawyer says this was legal perhaps its time for a new lawyer!!!!!!

Jim, I await your response

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Charlie so as not to further confuse these issues, I will answer them one at a time.

The lawyer was ask about the legality of the Executive Committee, his response, "The committee, established by and through the bylaws provision, is clearly consonant with the District of Columbia code" You say, "there simple was nothing wrong with our E.C. I can only imagine the question ask of him to get that response. The following is the law concerning this subject

29-301.22 Board of Directors-- Designation or appointment of committees; authority.

If the articles of incorporation or the bylaws so provide, the board of directors, by resolution adopted by a majority of directors in office, may designate 1 or more committees, EACH OF WHICH SHALL CONSIST OF 2 OR MORE DIRECTORS.

Thats what I mean BS in BS out, he was simple ask if the committee was within law, his response above was correct, however he was not ask about the make-up of the committee until I raised that question, and yes, the law does require 2 or more directors. The CPOA committee had NONE (note) this requirement is for the protection of the BOD. Had the NO's ask all the pertinate question, they would have received an entirely different answer because the lawyer may only quote the law. Oh and by the way charlie, this was before your time as VP.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

CPOA Dues: Charlie at the St. Louis convention I ask you from the convention floor, if I have no plans to run for national office could I lower my dues to $18.00 because that is what was being discussed. You can make all the excuses in the world for these members who choose not to follow the rules, Association dues are $24.00, not $18.00 and as bad as the association may need the funds to pay for the presidents boon doggles it is not fair to the members paying the full ammount. That is the only reason I raised the question.

You say a person paying $18.00 may not vote, Please tell everyone how you are going to police that, the ballot comes out in the magazine and I'm sure that the nomination committee is not going to stop a make sure that each ballot returned is paying $24.00.

Jim

PS: Don't say it if you can't prove it

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

At the 32nd Annual National Convention, the Board of Directors approved a dues increas of 51 cents per month effective 1 Jan 2001....

That was 6 years ago... A grace period is nice, but someone needs to take charge on this one... Think of the money the CPOA has lost... Of course, if many of those $18 paying members were dropped, there is a good chance the CPOA would never hear from them again...


Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Master Chief,
I am only a member of CPOA and do not have any authority to spend any association funds to hire a lawyer. If you want to spend your money so be it.

The title of the Code you quote says "29.301.22 . BOD--Designation or appointment of committees; authority Since when did the board of directors become a committee? This section clearly deals with committees appointed by or designated by a Board of Directors.

CPOA By Laws Section IX explains amendments and revisions.

Ballots: All ballots require authentication. Member number or SSAN. Every ballot is checked against the membership data base.

Yes it was before I was VP but I still have copy of the letters. The Question was "This member believes that title 29 of the District Columbia Non-Profit Corporation Act overrides that section of our By Laws, since he states Title 29 does not allow for committees to be elected by the membership but only appointed by the BOD. Therefore he states that Section II.2.b of our by laws is illegal and these two people cannot be elected to these positions by our membership but must be appointed by the BOD."

I doubt if very many are reading this any more and enough is enough. We are moving forward. If or When the Pres is fired, steps down, or is not elected we will continue to move ahead. We will not back up and say everything he did is illegal and void. We will move forward. Master Chief, since you did not respond to my question of if you have restated your membership, I can only assume you are not a member of CPOA. Since you are not a member I see no reason for you to concern yourself with it's affairs. Join and move forward with us. We are not going to look back.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Charlie-
A lot of us are still reading this. If you guys can't work this out on a discussion board where time is not a factor, how are you going to do so at a convention when someone raises the same concerns?

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Good morning Dennis, Oh & charlie

1st I was a member of the CPOA for over thirty years, and no I am no longer a member. I will not provide funds for all the illegal BS that is going on today, the president is reading this & will not involve himself in the conversation. Charlie & Kevin are both great guys and maybe the two hardest workers in the association it is a damn shame that we can't get on the same page.

Charlie I will ask this question one more time and ask that you explain it to Dennis and other that are following our discussion

The 2006 convention was a BOD meeting, you have said so several times in your responses. When the vote was taken on NO's resolution #2 the minutes clearly show that there were 11 primary, 8 alternate, & 3 proxy a total of 22 chapters out of 45 were represented. The vote was 27 yea & 9 no, a total of 36, if the 9 no votes were from primary delegates (BOD) that would mean that two primary delegates votes away the duties of the entire board. Who were the 14 other voters who were not delegates? Did the National Officers stack the deck with unauthorized vote? Charlie you were the parliamentarian and it was your duty to ensure business was conducted legally, did you drop the ball? You Allowed the Town hall meeting which had absolutely nothing to do with the general order of business spelled out in the bylaws. You are allowing shipp to pick the convention sites, not his job, why do you and others allow it?

You keep spouting rhetoric like not looking back, forward & upward, but like a true politician never a straight answer. The question was and still is HOW DID 22 DELEGATES CAST 36 VOTES?

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Charlie & Kevin keep raising the question about my not being a member any longer, but they never ask why.

In 2005 as a delegate of e-city I drove from Charleston SC to the convention in St. Louis MO. (at my own expense). I was in the e-city delegates chair, I rose to raise a point of order (do you remember charlie) I said that I doubted the presents of a quorum, the presidents response was, so, I said to conduct business there must be a quorum, he said that we were not going to discuss the DC code, the delegate from cape may rose and ask why, Shipp replied that that was his decision , Master Chief Anderson the Cape May delegate left the room in discuss. Who's job was it to ensure that the meeting followed parliamentary procedure, it was Charlie's, when I raised the question,it was a privileged motion, and should have been followed with a roll call to ensure that in fact there was a quorum present and if there was not it was his job to stop all business until such time as a quorum was present. After that session I talked with Kevin about it, he agreed to raise the question at the next session, but as that session was getting underway he came to me to say that he had changed his mind (remember Kevin) . So Charlie if you want to know why I am no longer a member, go look in the mirror. It was Charlie's job to ensure that every delegate who rose was able to speak, not let Shipp hold a town hall meeting. Charlie you failed.

Jim

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Jim...That was the only convention that I attended and I remember that incident. I didn't really know what was going on because it was my first time there, but I knew something was getting a few of you fired up.

But, is it really fair to blame Charlie for this? Didn't you say that Jon didn't want to hear it? What makes you think that Jon would have wanted to hear it if Charlie raised the concern? As I recall, it was a one-sided issue and Jon wasn't going to discuss it. I think it's unfair to cast the stones at Charlie (or anyone other than Jon).

We've all heard the problem. What's the solution?

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Thanks Deane

You are right, Charlie is not totally to blame. When this all started in 2001 past president Doug Robertson gave up his position as IPP. I found that the NO's had gone to texas and completely rewritten the bylaws in 2000, I inquired as to why this was done. The National President Tim Trimble told me that they had to, there was something wrong with the members section. This was BS, if there's something wrong with the members section you fix that , not completely rewrite the bylaws. I was told it was done on the advise of the associations lawyer, Many of us older members every since have ask for a copy of his letter, It does not exist.

Every since I have studied the bylaws, I've studied the DC code, I've talked with the lawyer & also discussed it with the primary attorney of the district of Columbia.

At another meeting the NO"s rewrote our articles of incorporation, and filed them with the district of Columbia, that document was false.

I have 100's of e-mails from Trimble, Shipp & Womack with answers to some of my concerns, none of them straight answers!

You've been following this discussion, can you point out one straight answer that I have recieved to any question?

How do we fix it? 1st & formost there can be no association without representation of the members, there can be no association without someone with the authority to hold the NO's accountable, NO"s resolution #2did away with that. The final word must aways be with the members rep's, the Chapter presidents, the BOD.

Thanks for getting involved Deane
Jim

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Dennis, thanks for reminding me about the interest. Lets move on!
Deane, thanks for the kind words.

For the record: I am a card carring member of CPOA. But more importantly why isn't everyone. Our purpose carries a much more important message than all this talk about what is legal and what is not, who is right and who is wrong. We, just like many other organizations of today, are faultering and we must make decisions that will carry us through and get the job done, regardless of personal likes or dislikes. Our purpose talks about:
advancing our professional abilities
enhancing our value
promoting unity
assisting those in urgent need
and the list goes on, which is a much more important discussion. We are an organization of Active Duty, Reserve, and Retired Chief Petty Officers. Our organization (CPOA/CGEA) brings forth the past, which equates to knowledge, wisdom and tradition, the present, which is who is getting the job done now and the true leaders of our future, a future which represents our growth. The Chiefs Mess is a very necessary and viable part of the Coast Guard yesterday and today, it has an extremely important purpose, but it does not bring forth what I have just described.

For the record: One must be willing to seek solutions and not dwell on the problem for there to be a concensus. Master Chief Bridges and myself have been debating these issues for 3 years. When we first started our discussions I thought both of us wanted the same thing and that was to fix some areas that needed attention. As I eventually found out all he really wanted was a National Officer to agree with him. To the best that I have tried to promote solutions, all I have gotten so far is the blame for not doing it his way.

For the record: The National Vice President is NOT the parliamentarian of our National Convention. If the President desires a Parliamentarian he appoints one. The Vice President has no authority as to the running of a meeting, except to possibly advise and assist the Chairman, and assume the chair in the Presidents absence. Advising and assisting normally happens outside the actual sessions itself. As for approving the agenda, any approval/disapproval of the convention agenda must come in the form of a motion from the convention floor, NOT from one of the other officers.

For the record: By Laws Changes (Section IX of the CPOA By Laws) requires approval of the membership. Every member in good standing (paying the $24) has a right to vote on all By Laws Changes. To do so you must be at the convention. A quourm according to Section IX is a simple majority of those members registered as attending. All By Laws changes must be published to the entire membership prior to convention and are always done so in THE CHIEF. NO, the National officers did not and I take exception to the accusation of "stacking the deck with unauthorized votes".

For the record: In my most humble opinion, I have never been less that straight forward with any answers about CPOA. They simply were not what some people want to hear.

The solutions to any problems we have, lies ahead. We are not (and this is straight forward) going back to the way we did things in 1969, nor 1999, nor 2006. Our solutions will come up in the future for the future. I have taken the initiative to write 6 resolutions for the upcoming convention, sponsored by my Chapter. The issues range from what we missed during reorganization, areas of the way we do business that simply make no sense, and a couple of mere administrative/corrective changes. Will they get passed? Don't know, but I am trying. I plan to continue to help make positive change in our organization, but I will never think the "way we used to do it" is better than finding what will work today.

"Charlie, you failed." Yes, I did fail, but not as the Master Chief would have everyone believe. Failure is the opposite of success. I do not agree with and strongly oppose the dictatorship style of leadership our organization is currently under. I oppose the notion that National Officers are requried to publicly support the Presidents decisions even though they know they violate the By Laws. As the NVP I opposed most of what our President stands for. Although I did not openly support him, I also did not openly show my opposition. I thought it best for the association not to show infighting between the Pres and V Pres. As I look back, I now think I should have been better at letting the membership know how we were then and continue to now be run. That is where I indeed failed the membership. I did not fully succeed in all I wanted to accomplish as a National Officer, but I continue to work toward that end.

Straight Forward: I truly believe the reorganization of our Board of Directors is in the best interest of the CPOA. We could not operate, as the law requires, as we were. Change had to be made, and it was positive. Was this change absolute? Maybe, maybe not. If not, it moreover was dictated by our limited resourses instead of our desire to do what was right. We can argue Law one on one all day and never come to the same conclusion. Interpretation of the By Laws on the otherhand is accomplished by the membership and simply requires a majority vote. We debate the issue and then vote on them. That is how we decide things at convention.

Placing blame is not a solution. It only inhances the problem.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie,
You call the (our) organization the CPOA/CGEA.... For the record, that is not what I joined. Other than what Kevin posted a while ago, I have not heard much discussion about the CGEA and how long the CPOA will host/carry them. Do you or any other members have any thoughts about this?

I can see a (the) major problem here.. you stated "I do not agree with and strongly oppose the dictatorship style of leadership our organization is currently under." (Let's remember.. this is a President/Vice President relationship here) For the life of me, I do not understand how, in an organization of this size & type there can possibly be a "dictator" style allowed to continue. Do others feel this way? Is there nothing that can be done if things are so bad? I am going out on a limb here, but do you think stricter adhearance to the By-Laws would have prevented some of this?

As I said earlier, I have not had much to do with the CPOA since my retirement in 1999. I believe, as I have said, this is something the active duty side of the house needs to fix, but, perhaps, some advice/help from those that were active in the CPOA for so many years prior to their retirement. That is, if help is really desired.

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Wray,
Why is this and Active Duty only issue? Isn't the CPOA open to all Chiefs? Retired, Reserve and Active Duty? I am sure that you are busy in retirement, but I know I am busy on Active Duty as well.

Charlie,
I am also a card carrying member of the CPOA, but I still haven't heard why I should be. What does National do that would make me want to be part of that organization? I no longer have a local chapter. Actually, when I did it was still 3-1/2 hours each way. I see what the local chapters and/or messes do and that is impressive. All I see from National is that my dues goes to send National Officers to Las Vegas for a week every year. I am not so sure I want to support that. Even then, it seems to be a pissing contest when they are there. Not sure I want to support that either. I wish someone would throw me a bone so I can support and defend an organization that is supposed to be good for me.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Wray, I used the "CPOA/CGEA" moniker to illustrate (and I probably should have added this) we as Chief's especially on the Active Duty side have the responsibility of mentoring our replacements. Remember part of our motto "as a guide for those who follow" With our covering of the CGEA we are helping to grow an organization who will some day take our place as National Officers and a couple of old retireed guy's discussing the issues of the day.

About our leadership, I am speaking about a leadership style. As Vice President I was told two things by the President: First, "You work for me" I responded "I work for the membership" and he once again said "you work for me" and that I was expected to "support the decisions of the President right or wrong." As for how I handled it, as in my last post, I think very badly. However, I spoke my mind, addressed what the membership was telling me, explained when he did something wrong all to fall on deaf ears. We were told that the President has the final say in all CPOA decisions. As much as some will have everyone believe the whole CPOA is in violation of By Laws, Laws, etc, it all boils down to some isolated incidents by a few select people. Ego comes to mind. As for the current Pres/V Pres relationship your current VP believes exactly as the Pres and so does the Secretary. As for what can be done, disciplinary action to be taken during Convention.

Jim, It it not only an active duty issue, however it is the active duty we are trying to recruit, and it is the active duty who are looking for value a lot more so than those of us who have been a member since the day we made Chief. We need a very strong Active Duty voice and leadership so we can develop and keep up with the demands of today's CPO. I have been retired since 97 and hear things from Active Duty folks that I have no clue about what they are doing. We need a stronger Active Duty participation to keep us old guys informed on what is important to the Chief of today and more importantly what they see as need for the future.

As for why be a member, some of us have given our opinion in the "What does National CPOA do" thread. If a person is a member and not satisified with the way things are going, they should be letting the leadership know and be active in encouraging change. Maybe a thread addressed to the National Officers.

In closing and I have seen this a couple times about paying for the National Officers Trip to Convention. We are required by law to hold an annual meeting. This is where we the membership tell our leadership what direction we want them to take our organization during the next year. Every organization has it's annual meeting. We are not doing anything different. There is some administration that must be done along with meeting our purpose and goals. This meeting has to be held somewhere, and it does not have to be Vegas. (this will be a point of contention during this upcoming meeting)

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
I don't think it is an Active duty "only" issue to fix, but I think they, like I was, while on active duty are the main ones to run things & fix problems which may occur. There are several retired members that have been there for years & years.. I get the feeling they are loosing interest.. for what ever reason... Just take a look at this site.. when if first started we (retirees) were not even welcome here..

Charlie, while your first paragraph is a nice mentoring speach, as I said.. This is still called the CPOA.. The magazine is called the CHIEF... Everything you said can be done without the CGEA being intergrated into the CPOA. As I said, I though origionally they were only going to be a part of the CPOA for two years while they got organized.. Are they still not organized? Are they (CGEA) a perminent part of CPOA now?

Wray.... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

To all

1st I must apologize to Charlie, when I said that I blamed him, its was not because he caused the CPOA problems. It was because after six years of arguing with the NO's & three years of arguing with Charlie, we could agree on nothing, so after that convention in St. Louis I decided to leave the association. I, however did not mean that I would stop fighting for what I believe to be wrong with the association. AND I WILL CONTINUE.

Charlie made a couple quotes in his other post.
1. We could not operate, as the law requires.------WHY ?

2. A quorum according to section IX is a simple majority of those members registered as attending. WHO ARE THOSE MEMBERS ? I say that it means a majority OF THOSE MEMBERS ENTITLED TO VOTE, the CPOA has approx 10,000 members entitled to vote. a simple majority would be 5,001. The law says that if the bylaws does not define a number then the law requires 1/10 of those entitled to vote is a quorum. Charlie defines it as meaning a majority of those registered as attending. Who is right ? A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF THOSE REGISTERED AS ATTENDING, if you have have 100 registered as attending then 51 would be a majority of those attending, if there are 50 registered as attending then 26 would be a majority of those registered as attending, if 25 registered as attending then 13 would be a majority of those registered as attending, if there were 12 registered as attending then 7 would be a majorit