Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda...

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Well, today I went to the Busch race... I beilieve I have seen every service sponsored except the USCG.... In my opinion the Coast Guard shoulda renewed their advertising program with the #21 Kevin Harvic team...

By doing this they coulda increased the Coast Guard visibility, which in turn woulda helped the recruiting efforts....

As with many other things I have seen the Coast Guard do, when something is working well, they dropped it... :rolleyes:

Just an opinion...

Thoughts?

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Well Wray I agree with you. I'm not really a big NASCAR fan, but I know that its big and that "our" team did well last year. So it's a mystery why we passed on it this year. Maybe those Deepwater cost overruns did it in.

[BMCM Gary Keen (RET)]

I am sure the publicity the Coast Guard will get on the Deepwater cost over runs will more than make up for the lost publicity from Nascar. Certainly the potential recruits that we are trying to attract are reading the Wall Street Journal!!!
Gary

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Wray,
I thought I read some where that we didn't want to drop him, it's just that because he was so successful, we couldn't compete money wise with other advertisers. As far as a recruitment tool, only time will tell. If we don't meet our recruitment numbers this year maybe they'll go back to it, since we met them while we were sponsoring a team... It'd be interesting to know how many of last years recruits came to or were interested in the CG because of our sponsorship though. Someone some where has to be collecting that info (...Where did you hear about the CG? Newspaper, Friend, NASCAR, etc...).

Craig

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

According to a buddy at HQ (since I find NASCAR almost as interesting as watching boils ooze), the new driver started really doing well after he got the CG sponsorship - and his renewal price went up significantly.

The dollars spent didn't correspond to numbers being put in - and the only people we were reaching were white - and male. In an organization that needs diversity, this doesn't help... we have enough white males to go around several times.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

In an organization that needs diversity, this doesn't help... we have enough white males to go around several times.

And I've seen it written in other threads on other forums where you shouldn't complain about the racial makeup because non-whites didn't apply. There were those who stated it wasn't the CG's fault for the lack of diversity.

Is it's an issue now?

Of course, I'm sure our resident historian can point to an allegory during some Congressional Hearing where a Commandant was asked about the lack of participation at the CG Academy [or it's precedessor] from some landlocked state, that the critter represented.

Jerald, don't you think it's racist to accuse NASCAR of having no non-white fans?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, I wouldn't jump right to racist, but it is un-informed. Unless you had the numbers to back that X number of those white males decided to join after watching a race, it's best not to speculate. It's also not really informed to talk about the number of white males that we have being enough to go around several times, as I've never heard of a racial breakdown we required to meet.
I know where NASCAR got its base, but got is past tense, and NASCAR has grown. Just look around for all the NASCAR memorabilla on vehilces today.
I don't watch NASCAR either, but that car looked so cool.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

According to a buddy at HQ (since I find NASCAR almost as interesting as watching boils ooze), the new driver started really doing well after he got the CG sponsorship - and his renewal price went up significantly.

Jerald, I don't think that was the case.. They probably could have re-newed their contract but choose not to. I'm sure to sign on now, since Harvick has done so well would cost more. Steve Blando was in charge of the CG racing advertisement project a few years ago. I met him down here at Daytona. I later asked him why the CG was getting out, and he said they didn't want to spend the $$$.. He never said anything about a price increase.

I bet the money got lost in some "deepwater" (USCGC Bertholf) ;)

Wray.... :cool:

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I to was disappointed that the CG ended the sponsorship of the Busch car. That car was the best of the series last year, and received huge publicity and air time, and you couldn't ask for any better than that. Everyone wants to blame Deep Water (Which is probably where the money went) but it is not the issue.

The Coast Guard does not receive funding for recruiting. The 4 DOD services all receive funding in their budgets for recuiting and promoting their services, and we do not. I am not sure if that falls under the whole "not being in DOD", but all of our recruiting efforts and supplies come out of hide. Now, looking at our financial state this year, and the monies being switched to advance Deep Water, I was not suprised that we did not renew our contrat with RCR.

I will say that I believe it was the best recruiting tool I have seen during my career, and sure as hell a whole lot better than that WWF fiasco!

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Stuart,

Granted the jump to racist was giant step, not a long jump, but well within the societal norms. The perception from Jerald was ... The dollars spent didn't correspond to numbers being put in - and the only people we were reaching were white - and male. ... while it may be the contemporary perception, it's also misinformed.

The CG still relies on the kindness of the broadcasters to get their message out with PSAs ... Public Service Announcements ... competing with all the other PSAs. PSAs air when all paid advertising for the day is complete, which means, just like the 60s, the vast majority of today's CG PSAs run in the wee hours of the morning. And what is the target audience at that time frame? The occasional insominac?

If Jerald was interested, he could have researched the dollars spent and where they were spent, correlated by conversion factors for each type of ad.

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Joe, may I ask what the standard demographic of a NASCAR fan might be?

According to NASCAR's own figures:
NASCAR FANS

Gender distribution
Male------60%
Female----40%

Age distribution
--------U.S. pop.-- NASCAR fans
18-34-----32%---------32%
35-44-----21%---------26%
45+-------47%---------43%

Income distribution
-------------U.S. pop.--NASCAR fans
$30-50,000----22%-------29%
$50-75,000----18%-------22%
$75-100,000---12%-------12%
$100,000+------9%--------8%

Regional distribution
------------U.S. pop.---NASCAR fans
Northeast-----20%--------20%
Midwest-------23%--------24%
South---------35%--------38%
West----------21%--------19%

Ethnic diversity
% of NASCAR fan base (18+):
-----------------1999---2002----Trend
Hispanic----------3.6%--8.6%---+139%
African-American--4.9%--9.1%---+86%
____________________
Source: NASCAR
Delaware Online: Feb 2004
So, we spend a bunch of money in a time when the buzzwords in HQ are all about diversity, and the demographic of the advertiser has less than the national average of women AND ethnic minorities. Not a good buy, if they are serious about the diversity issue.

If I want to attract an ethnic minority to my organization, I will target ethnic minorities - and that means spending money where the demographics reached will contain at LEAST the national average for that group. Isn't that just sound business sense?

If I want to increase SAR stats, I will put extra assets in areas where there are lots of SAR cases and opportunities... not toss a 47' out into Death Valley. Sure, I will be increasing the numbers of SAR assets there - but it won't have an effect on my mission numbers.

Why throw numbers in advertising at something that won't show the numbers we want? It's like putting millions into advertising into the Gay and Lesbian Alliance magazine... and then trying to be proud of "getting the message out there" even though we have "enough" of that demographic (yes, I know the "enough" equals zero...)

Why don't we have an advert in Jet magazine and other ethnic monthly mags?

Hey, I've got a great idea! Let's put our commercials on something that reaches a different demographic like Pro Wrestling!! (/dripping sarcasm)

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

The dollars spent didn't correspond to numbers being put in - and the only people we were reaching were white - and male. In an organization that needs diversity, this doesn't help... we have enough white males to go around several times.

Jerald, I'm not sure I'd go with the idea that NASCAR is a white's (read redneck cracker) sport. The only kids I see on campus wearing "car" jackets complete with the same advertising are the black boys and girls. It is one of the fad items. Many of the kids also wear the racing hats.

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

It's like putting millions into advertising into the Gay and Lesbian Alliance magazine... and then trying to be proud of "getting the message out there" even though we have "enough" of that demographic (yes, I know the "enough" equals zero...)


But you may pick up more minorities which would be a plus. Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't ask.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Jerald,

Nice stats on NASCAR. Now, is there a corresponding CG Recruiting STATS available online? One that shows the breakdown by targeted audiences? I doubt it.

Your comments about NASCAR was proven incorrect by your own statistics about NASCAR.

Are you saying the CG should only advertise with organizations that have a diverse audience, one mirroring the population? If that is true, JET wouldn't get any advertising money [I don't have a clue if they get any now] because of their demographics. You have to be careful for what you wish for, you might just get it.

I seriously doubt the CG targets anything other than spending it's meager budget on producing and distributing the PSAs. The few times they got serious, they became the butt of the jokes from within the ranks ... i.e. WWF and NASCAR.

In the past, it's been said it takes 100 contacts to recruit one person. That sounds like a low number, but that type of conversion is typical. It would be interesting to see the conversion stats used in recruiting in an annual report.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

The Coast Guard does not receive funding for recruiting. The 4 DOD services all receive funding in their budgets for recuiting and promoting their services, and we do not.

Ian, the Coast Guard has always had a recruiting budget as far as I've known.. How do you think they have operated recruiting stations all these years, bought posters, key chains, pencils, TV ads, etc... I'm not sure how or where it is incorporated into the overall budget, but you can bet it is a well thought out process and annual request from HQ.

I suspect with just a little digging you could find out exactly what the CG recruiting budget is... ;)

Wray.. :cool:

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Your comments about NASCAR was proven incorrect by your own statistics about NASCAR.

Are you saying the CG should only advertise with organizations that have a diverse audience, one mirroring the population? If that is true, JET wouldn't get any advertising money [I don't have a clue if they get any now] because of their demographics. You have to be careful for what you wish for, you might just get it.
The slice of American society that watches/are fans of NASCAR don't match up to a slice of America as a whole - THAT was my point. If the goal is to have a Coast Guard that mirrors America, why advertise with someone that doesn't reach the same slice of America? Then we wonder why we don't have a representative slice of "normalcy"???

Of course not! It's like advertising at a KKK rally and wondering why we can't attract more Blacks...

If (which my conversations with recruiters bears out) we have no problem meeting mission with white males, why DON'T we do targeted advertising with Blacks - like using Jet? Their demographic is specifically targeted as the 18-45 year old Black male... if we target the group, maybe we can raise the visibility of what we do with a group that may not see us on a daily basis.

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Then we wonder why we don't have a representative slice of "normalcy"???


What would that "normalcy" be?

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Jerald,

I'm sure those making the decisions on where to advertise would consider JET as well as the other prominate magazines targeting those in the black community. I don't have a problem with that. They should target their dollars where they would do the most good.

Now, if they advertise, they should be able to track the conversions from each form of advertising ... so they can judge what is working and what isn't. Just throwing money at something isn't marketing the CG properly.

I gather from your writings that you thought is was wasteful money advertising with NASCAR because of the demographics of the NASCAR fan as being not representative of American Society. You can't have it both ways ... Restricting advertising with one because their target audience isn't representative, yet advertise with another because their target isn't representative, but they do target the same group, that your targeting. That policy would be under scruitiny as patiently unfair.

Should they slice up the recruiting advertising budget according to the demographics of the United States and then spend the apportioned monies with advertising that targets the apportioned demographics? Well, then you certainly could see the conversions for each. Would it be effective use of the recruiting advertising budget? I don't know.

When you become the MCPO at Recruiting in HQ, you can push for such things.

If you were the only black on a unit, and XPO, would you require the morale committe to subscribe to Ebony and Jet before you would endorse any other magazine subscriptions? Yes, I have heard from some at request and complaint masts that things like that happened, when I was inspecting a unit.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

In the MCPOCG Notes, it says the following about diversity...

"We are actually doing a great job recruiting a diverse workforce, but the challenge is and will be...to retain it"

So, how do we retain it? Thoughts?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

People join for different reasons and people stay in for different reasons. We have an easier time retaining people when the economy is doing worse. When the grass looks greener on the outside, more people leave.
I think that if we want to retain anyone, we need to be able to show the benefits of staying in. Don't take that in the general term. You have to sit down with the individual and find out what that individual wants out of life. Then you have to show them how the service could provide it for them.
Now if only there was a way we could find out what our people wanted and outdate that as their needs/ambitions change. Something that we could revisit every six months or so.........

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

I always mentioned the advancement opportunities and where they will be at the end of the next enlistment.

Highlight the rapid advancement opportunities for those who apply themselves.

Highlight what they would be doing at their next two paygrades.

Compare that to where they will be in four years after starting over with a civilian company. Will their leadership skills and technical skills be where it will be if they were retained?

Yes, sometimes the grass is greener on the other side. I just accenuate the positives of being retained.

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

I found this on the Chief of Staffs Question of the week page... I didn't copy the whole thing because it's quite long, but it does explain why were not into NASCAR sponsorship, were meeting our goals with different advertising.

The Coast Guard is only authorized to spend money on advertisements for recruiting purposes. Coast Guard Recruiting Command has neither the resources nor the need to mount national media campaigns like those the DoD services must conduct to accomplish their much larger recruiting missions. CGRC primarily reaches its market through lower level tactics like Internet ads; sponsorships of job fairs and other outreach events; and billboards, bus placards, and other local advertisements placed near selected recruiting offices. Recruiting does arrange limited play of radio and television spots through partnerships with state broadcasters associations, and new creative work is underway to freshen up those ads. However, because these measures allow CGRC to accomplish its mission, there are no plans to spend money unnecessarily by advertising in prime-time or during major sporting events.

Craig

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I guess for the preceeding two years while they sponsored Justin Labonte & then Kevin Harvick, they didn't count.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Or maybe the Chief of Staff wasn't aware of that...

The only thing that counts is the person that makes the decisions...

I wonder, was WWF "lower level"? Yeah, I'm sure it was... ;)

Wray... :cool: