When should a Coastie not receive an award?

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

We've touched on proper recognition of our people in other threads and a couple of the essays. There are some significant differences in how we, as chiefs, formally recognize our subordinates. I'd like to approach this issue from a different angle.

When should a Coastie not receive an award? Let's exclude those that have obvious performance deficiences or are somehow ineligible for other reasons. Let's focus on the average Coastie--someone doing his/her job, respectable appearance and behavior, good performance evaluations.

First example: BM2 who receives 4's and the occassional 5 on his/her marks. Put's in the same time as the rest of crew, good character, does everything right. Hasn't had the opportunity to distinguish himself/herself, and is coming up on end-of-tour. Deserving of an award?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis,

From your example, it doesn't sound like it. We certainly shouldn't feel obligated to submit for an award.

Before I submit an award recommendation for a member of my unit I do a couple of things. First, I bust out the Awards Manual and re-read the eligibility criteria. Second, I always think about what I will be reading on the citation in front of the crew. If I don't feel good about what I'm reading on the citation, I don't submit.

We shouldn't tarnish the award process anymore than it already is.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ditto to Deane. I only spend the time to recognize members who spend their time achieving. The awards process was designed to recognize superior performers. We simply pay everyone else.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Deane and Stuart,

Example #2: Command Cadre. When would we not give them an award?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Stu said...The awards process was designed to recognize superior performers. We simply pay everyone else.

That's a great line Stu!

I think the next book that Dennis writes should be filled with cliches from this forum.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Command Cadre takes a little more thought. They're already in a position of great responsibility, so that part is easy to justify and easy to write without feeling like you are flowering it up.

I guess, for me, it would depend on what they have done to make improvements to the unit or themselves during their tour. I don't think it should be an automatic thing, but they obviously have stepped up to the plate and decided to accept greater responsibilities in their positions.

Bottom line (for me) is it's a case-by-case decision, no matter what your position is.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

That's not much of an answer Deane. Would you not give them an award if they did not make improvements on the unit or themselves?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I don't have enough to go by. If an EPO/XPO just shows up and does the minimum, I probably wouldn't put them in for an award.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

With command cadre I, again, am with Deane. As long as you have made improvements to the unit or the people, I'd write up the appropriate award. Once you are in a command cadre position I think everyone is either relieved for cause or awarded for performance. Due the level of responsibilty, its either make or break. Does anyone know anyone who has left a Command Cadre position in the past five years, others than those under some sort of investigation or cloud of suspicion, who did not recieve at least an Achievement Medal? I can't think of anyone.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I didn't receive an award. And, since I'm sitting in another OIC job, I don't think that I'm being investigated or under some dark cloud.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis, Are you saying that as the departing OINC you did not receive an EOT award? If that's the case, I don't know that I've ever heard of that happening.

If that's the case, have you heard why you didn't receive an award?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

That is amazing to me.I know right now, a year away from transfer, that I will be getting a Commendation Medal, barring any unforeseen circumstance. I base that on the fact that every command under my OPCON has recieved the same for simply doing there assigned job. Those that did so questionably recieved an Achievement, and those under investigation still got a team award read during the COC ceremony. I know we have never met, but had I been at your COC, I would have been asking myself....... WTF? Amazing! Is that the norm for your area?

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Why couldn't it just be that I didn't deserve one? I did my job well, but did nothing to distinguish myself above and beyond the call of duty. Being an OIC is not in itself worthy of an award. Hell, we fight for those jobs!

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

"every command under my OPCON has recieved the same for simply doing there assigned job."

Doesn't that bother you???

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I guess it's possible that you just didn't deserve it, but that's hard to believe. With the authority/responsibility that an OINC has, it's hard to believe that a departing OINC does not receive even an LOC.

An LOC is awarded for...an act or service resulting in unusual and/or outstanding achievement.

Nothing in your tour met this criteria?????? That's unbelievable.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Let's try this...

What in your previous command cadre tours merited a medal for you?

[BMCS Shawn Vredenburg]

I'll wade into this discussion:

I mostly think awards are a friggin joke today. It seems like most non-operational folks get an EOT award. I have an achievement medal that I would be embarassed if anyone read (nobody has read that since the Captain signed it...fortunately it was never "presented" to me...it actually mentioned me sitting in a booth). It's getting completely out of hand.

That being said, there are certain jobs that I believe earn, by definition, some sort of award for not sinking. OIC/XPO/EPO jobs certainly fall into this category. No where else do you find that level of responsibility among enlisted personnel. Compare the responsibility of a BMC who is an OIC of a Station to a BMC who is MAA at a tracen, or to a TTC who is a shop supervisor, or to a YNC who is a persru supervisor. All the jobs are important, but you know who's got the most responsibility there.

The same thing could be said with comparing a Station MK1/EPO with a Group/Cutter MK1. There is no comparing the two positions.

So Yes, I think that, in general, outgoing command cadre personnel have earned some sort of award. Bottom line, the command cadre gets credit and blame for what happens at their unit. If, in the past 2 to 4 years, your unit hasn't done something pretty amazing, then you must be in a BORING place. I was OIC of Station Southwest Harbor, a pretty slow place, but looking back I can't believe the amazing things the crew did there. One of the perks of being OIC is I get to take (some) credit for those amazing things...and got a commendation medal.

And yes, I've seen a departing OIC not get an EOT award during his change of command. But that OIC would have been fired if he had not been placed there temporarily, and his tour was quickly up. Basically, he was put in a position to fail by the Group and he did fail. Fortunately that OIC moved back to an XPO tour and is doing well, because he is a very good man.

Sorry for being so long-winded (again). One more thing. It may sound like I'm saying "too many people are getting awards" out one side of my neck while saying "I deserve an award" out the other, but that (of course) is not my intention. Just saying that command cadre positions are held to such a high standard that, by performing those duties, you have already done something very special compared to others of your paygrade.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis, of the things that I have seen in mine life........that doesn't even deserve honorable mention. I presently work in an arena where awards are the management's way of saying thanks for showing up. In a land where the 9/11 medal went from recognization of those members who assisted in the evacuation of personnel from ground zero to encompass anyone attached to ACTNY who made it into work before 9/15....? I recieved an LOC for one of my former crew members the other day. He recieved it for recruiting efforts. He is no longer attached to my unit because after an extensive investigation, he is being processed for discharge for ...amoung other things...fraudgulent enlistment. I see MSMs flying around the 0-5 and above ranks some much, if I were a JO, I would pad my OER by passing out safety glasses before a stray medal takes someone's eye out. Every fleet week, ops sail, POTUS ops, UN general assembly, blah, blah, blah.........That is the world that we live in. The hardest that I worked in my career yeilded the least amount of chest candy. My highest awards are now from positions where I held the highest rank and produced the least amount of sweat. Ironically also where the value of that "recognition" provided the least amount of benifit to my career. By the time you get to my station in life practically everyone that you are competing for advancement with is maxed out on award points. If we recognized our subordinates early in their career those same points could reap the maximum benifit. The days of recognizing superior performance alone are long past. Accept the reality that if I get three people to enlist in the CG I will recieve an LOC and Achievement Medal for three points. Even as a three and four sailor in marks, that three points on my final multiple rockets me to the front of the field. How many of us know an enlisted member below E-8 that wears an MSM? How many of us know of an 0-6 or above without two. I saw an E-7 recieve one for three years of extrordinary work, and an 0-4 handed one four a two day fiasco. Again, had I gone to a COC where the OinC/CO was not presented with something.....I would have been floored. I think that one way or the other, you had the misfortune of working for the laziest, most uncaring, soulless people that I have heard of in some time. I am certain that when it came time for their transfers, they left with award in hand that reflected the work that you and your crew provided, and yes...the operational disguishing device was authorized.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

The command for which I worked were not lazy, uncaring, soul-less people. They issued many awards during my tour-of-duty and were always looking to recognize superior achievement.

My argument, for many years, has been that command cadre should not automatically receive an end-of-tour award, simply for being command cadre. We fight for those jobs. We're pissed when we don't get one. You can't consider something that sought-after to be deserving of special recognition. You want to give a medal automatically for a specific job? Give it to the guy that does a great job cleaning your heads. He deserves the recognition.

We debated it for a long while and in the end I believe that they began to see my point.

I didn't receive an award because I didn't do anything above the call of duty. Yes, extraordinary things happened during my tour of duty, and the people that accomplished those things were properly recognized. I even received a meritorious team commendation (in the middle of my tour) for a particularly tricky SAR case/boarding (along with about 7-8 of my other crew). It's one of the awards of which I am most proud.

By your comments, both of you seem to believe that the system is broke. You want to fix it? Stop expecting and accepting awards that you don't deserve. Your either part of the solution or part of the problem.

Oh, and just to head off the argument that I've got mine and I'm not worried about anyone else...I have total of 9 award points. My highest personal commendation is a LOC. Most of my points are based on the good conduct award. And, that's never effected my ability to compete for advancement.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I think the easiest and most direct answer to this particular question is:

When they do not deserve it!

I have been watching this thread for a little while and it sems to follow the same underlying themes of one other thread (Evaluations).

Do I think that every Coastie deserves an award for everything? No! Do I believe that the awards system is broken? Mangled, yes, broken, not completely.

But something BMCS Endicott mentioned makes me want to pose this question,

How many times, has anyone on this board refused to accept an award?

The audience is waiting.

What kind of message do you think that would send to junior people if you stood up at your change of command or other All Hands, and politely said, "Sir, I refuse to accept this award because I do not believe I deserve it."

Since Senior Chief has thrown down a few gauntlets (sic: dares) to the rest of us in other threads (Evaluations, CCTI), I am throwing this one down for him.

Send me an invite your Change of Command so that I can take the photo of you refusing to accept whatever personal award may come your way. Perhaps that is a photo that you can hang with pride on the "I love me wall" at home.

Above and Beyond the Call of Duty is not part of the text for a Commendation or Achievement Medal. It is however, part of the standardized text for the baby blue ribbon with five white stars. Last time I looked, nobody on this thread qualified for that one.

This post was typed with dedication, judgement and devotion to duty and was most heartily commended (by the author) and in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Coast Guard. The Operational Distinguishing device is not, authorized for this writer.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis once again I applaud your convictions and commitment. But there is a segment written into the script at the change of command specifically set aside for recognizing the achievements that you made during your tour. The fact that you were in a position of great responsibility demands that they recognize you for that. Knowing what your feelings are now, does not change the fact that I would have been floored to see someone in your position leave a unit with nothing but a hand shake.
The system is broke. I have my ten points. My protested would have little more impact than they have had over the past 18 years. I have watched people recieve awards for which the laid no claim to whatsoever........doesn't change the fact that you are the only person that I have ever heard of that has departed from that position of authority, with nothing. I think that you are the only one who doesn't find this strange, I could be wrong, but no one else seems to be chiming in to say "No no no , it happened over here as well".
The CG has moved to a stance of more recognition, not less, and had I been in your chain of command I would have written the award. You could have pulled a George C. Scott, but it would have been in public, and people would have known that I recognized your contributions to our cause. Scream all you want, my mind is made up.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Ah, Steve. If your going to come to a gun fight, make sure you bring some bullets.

If I truly don't believe that I deserve an award, then I it should never come to the point of embarrassing the CO at a COC, should it? All of that will be taking care of prior to the COC.

How can I turn down an award that I will never get in the first place????

[PACS Steve Carleton]

OK, give an honest answer, how many times did you know about an award prior to it being awarded?

Last time, I looked, the prospective recipient is not part of the approval process.

I await your personal invite.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Stu,
You would have given me an award that I clearly did not want? Well then, that's going to be about you looking for recognition, not me deserving some.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The same thing can be said about retirements and advancement ceremonies. They are not done soley for the person be recognized, but for recognition of the service and dedication that that individual provided. We sometimes recognize seniors to show juniors what they show aspire to be. You don't have to agree with everything that the service does, but accept the fact that somethings just ..are. Making BMCS was a great day for me, but I wanted not part of any formal pinning on ceremony, and know people that had to be dragged to their own retirement.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Steve,
Like every other OIC/XPO, I knew what the status quo was. In my last three units, awards were automatic just because I held a position of responsibility. I managed to convince all three commands that what I said had merit. The awards weren't given, because I didn't deserve one.
COC is in three years. Bring your fancy camera. But, who knows! Maybe I'll do something extraordinary that deserves an award by then. I just haven't to date.

Stu,
I agree that ceremonies (retirement, award, advancement, etc) are designed to honor the individual and to inspire others. But, if the individual does not warrant the recognition (you said yourself that you've seen this happen), what kind of inspiration does that provide? It doesn't. It breeds disillusionment.

Your either part of the problem or part of the solution.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis, is it that you convinced your last 3 units that what you said had merit or did they just get worn down and give you what you wanted (nothing)? Either way, I guess your stand on this issue was granted. I just think you stand alone on this one.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

OK Senior, I'll mark my calendar for 2007.

I guess one thing that some of us are missing the point on here is that the Medals and Award system, like the Evaluatiuons are subjective based on the people reading and understanding the manual or marking standard.

That's not to say that those of you who are on the front line are any less deserving of recognition, because someone in your chain of command applies a different interpretation to the standard than someone in a support role. In my humble opinion, it is the boat drivers, cuttermen and aviators on the front line who deserve more recognition (medals and awards, time off, pay incentives) than those of us in support roles. I do not look at a YN or SK and suggest that they do not deserve to wear a certain award simply because they work in a PERSRU or a comptrollers office. I am not their supervisor, someone else is, and that person decides along with that chain of command what that person does or doesn't deserve.

The way I read the criteria and the way anyone else reads and applies the criteria (aka guidelines) are two completely different trains of thought based on our experiences and interpretation. Its called flexibility (as with everything, in moderation), and that is a good thing. Does that mean that I am a big softy and put everyone in who works for me in for a medal or elevate marks? No, but I give serious thought to each and every one of the award recommendations and evaluations that that I do put through. If the person who is nominated for an award is truly undeserving, then the chain of command and awards board have the duty (responsibility) to not let it go through.

I will be perfectly honest, I am maxed out on points, yes, many of them are for support role functions. But not one of the award certificates is framed and displayed above my desk except one, an LOC with an O device that was recently awarded, unexpectedly and from an O5 that I do not work for directly. You want to talk about suprises! If I took a high and mighty stance and politely refused the award what do you think the person who took the time to recognize me would have thought? What do you think would have happened if one of my subordinates rather than a senior officer took the time and effort to put me in for an award and I politely refused? Just because I think I am not worthy, doesn't mean that that is always the case. Often times we are our own worst critics who cannot see the forrest through the trees.

Sometimes, the recognition is not always about you the person, sometimes its about the unit and the people who care enough to recognize your efforts even when you don't feel you deserve something.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis, don't you find it strange that not one other person is coming forward to stand by your side on this thing. Exactly what gains have you made towards your goal of award reformation by your defiance. I have never submitted myself for an award or provided others with the bullets to get one for me. I submit my personal for awards based on the standard for the award and their performance. Does that make me part of the problem or the solutuion? I suppose I could stop eating....do you think that that would end obesity in America?

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

We are still a pretty small representation of the Chief's Corps (299/4000). It's not a given that I stand alone.

In regards to what I hope to accomplish; 1) Have people begin discussing the issue (mission accomplished), 2) Get people to change their views of end-of-tour awards, 3) Get people to change the practice of giving end-of-tour awards.

My last CO was as incredulous as you are. How could I dare refuse an award?!? My response- How could he insist on giving it to me, if I didn't want it?

Think about it. Why is it so unfathomable for me to say "no thank you?" Why does it seem like heresy?

In regards to the obesity question, Mohandas Gandhi went on a hunger strike and changed India. Give it a shot.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis, is it that you don't want an award because you know it's coming? Is it that you feel that if it wasn't a "Known" then it would be OK?

I'm really trying hard to understand the thought process here. There has to be more to it than...you feel that you haven't done anything to deserve it.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

It's because it's automatic. I don't deserve an award just because I am the OIC. If I do something during my tour that deserves recognition, then I should get the award then, not at the end (as was the case with the Meritorious Team Commendation).

I also don't think that my crew's accomplishments should weigh heavily into that decision. Their actions should warrant their awards.

Believe me, if I do something noteworthy, I'll be expecting some chest-candy.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

It isn't unfathonable just unheard of.....until now. If I am asked to submit bullets prior to my departure rest assured I will decline, I'll let them know I'm fine. As for Ghandi.....India has already tested nuclear weapons......nothing lasts.

[BMCS Shawn Vredenburg]

What a terrific discussion and disagreement among Chiefs!

Bravo Zulu!!

[BMCM Steve Cantrell]

To Dennis' defense..I was also within the same Group at the same time and I think the CO was actually angry when Dennis made his pitch of no EOT award. I think his response was "If I want to give an award, then I will, and how dare you question that?" Not an actual quote, but close enough from what I heard about it. Good discussion, but I think it will still be an argument long after we are all gone. Do any of you sit on the Awards Board for your unit,Group, etc. It's not good enough to personally refuse awards, but the Chiefs need to insist on sitting on these Awards Boards and make a stand there for the awards that are submitted. Sit on them and don't give a vote in favor of an award if you feel it is not deserved. That being said, we still need to submit awards and fight for them if a person is deserving. Each of us probably reads the criteria for an award differently, but the bottom line is that deserving folks should get awards. That's why we have an awards system in the first place.

BMCM Steve Cantrell

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Yes, this has been a good discussion.

Dennis even seemed to open up a little bit. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he might have had a Dr. Phil moment!

There might be hope after all.

[ETCS David Kroll]

I'll Have to agree with Dennis, Command cadre should not be held on a higher level just because they have more responsibility. That is the billet, just like a BM3's billet requires him to do certain things, so does the XPO. I'm sick of seeing CO's and their cadre ( O side ) as well as the folks on the enlisted side get awards just for doing their time as an OIC, XPO. It's just wrong. We are getting the higher pay for that added responsibility. Just doing your job as an OIC shouldn't mean an award. Dennis, your my hero.

Oh, and I was there when this happened also.

Dave

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Steve Cantrell had some good points.

1) You have to sit on the boards and say your piece to make a difference. I've not been the most active guy with award boards. And,

2) There is a very real concern that I'd let my own feelings toward eot awards effect what's being given to my subordinates. My command cadre personnel automatically get their awards. Not because I believe it should be so, but because I just might be wrong. I wait for the day when one of them will say, "No thank you" to me.

Dave Kroll- Admit it. I was your hero long before this debate.

[SCPO Dan Lawler]

Excellent topic!! As an OS (prior RM/TC), the opportunity for awards was very slim. Most of my positions in the CG have been in a support role to operational units. Working a scary distress case, medical situation, or a Law Enforcement situation is all part of the Radiomans job. However, the performance that goes un-noticed is how a particular operator goes above and beyond just talking on the radio and gathering the information. Picking out weak and distorted fragments of a transmission, shifting frequencies dozens of times in order to get an accurate assessment of the on scene weather, or confirm a questionable position are all parts of the case that go un-noticed. These actions are what make it possible for the controllers to make decisions, and the SAR units to actually be able to execute the case successfully. So I would look hard at the individual and his/her job before deciding on the award recommendation. Hidden performance may be the kicker, and supervisors need to be on the ball. The process unfortunately is tarnished, and it's almost expected that departing personnel will get atleast an LOC, and it's not why the can get one, it's why they shouldn't get one.

SCPO Dan Lawler

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis I'm really lost now. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?
You questioned my part in the process, but as I said, I write people up based on their performance, nothing is automatic. I feel as though anyone taking an EPO or XPO job for me will either be cited for superior performance or relieved for cause. Those positions are too important for people who simply show up. You are either doing the job which requires more time and effort than other E-6 positions, or you are letting your crew down with substandard performance. I must be colored blind because I don't see a lot of gray area there.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

"I feel as though anyone taking an EPO or XPO job for me will either be cited for superior performance or relieved for cause."

Man, I would never want to work for you.

So, to paraphrase, unless your XPO and EPO somehow distinguish themselves during their tour of duty, you will have them relieved. On the scale of Great-Good-Poor, they can never be good...only great.

OIC/XPO/EPO positions do not require more time and effort than their non-command cadre counter-parts. I guarantee you that the 1st Lt on a buoy tender/river tender/whatever tender is putting forth as much effort and time (if not more) than you or your XPO are.

Being command cadre has its unique difficulties, but it also has the most perks of any enlisted position in the service.

And they call me arrogant!

Just curious- how many XPOs and EPOs have you relieved?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Zero. I HOLD PEOPLE TO A STANDARD. If I had someone that worked you me in ANY position that refused to perform to that standard I would remove them, WHICH IS MY JOB TO DO SO.You again are taking things out of context. I feel by simply doing their job my XPO and EPO are doing great things, and thereby distinguish themselves and their service.. Take a poll Dennis and find someone that has worked for me in the past that would not love to work for me again. :) My current XPO would disagree with you on your 1st Lt analogy as he just came from a tour on a 175'. My previous XPO came from a construction tender down south and would diagree as well. I have served as 1st LT on both a 110' and 140' and would compare neither to the workload of the XO. Different platforms require different workloads, based on the size of the vessel and the amount of personnel attached. I am not saying that my E-6s have more responsibilites than any other E-6s in the Guard but they have more than most and I recognize them accordingly.

Lets stay on point, regardless of my many flaws, and the numerous lives I have destroyed in the wake of my career.......why do you "automatically "write up your command cadre for awards that you don't feel as though they deserve? Can we get more hypocritical?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis, You’re obviously taking what Stu said out of context. I agree with Stu and I understand exactly what he is saying.

I have 2 questions for you Dennis. (1) Don't you feel a little bit like a hypocrite by giving your command cadre automatic eot awards? You have such a defiant stance on this - but are not practicing it yourself. (2) What do you expect in terms of performance from your XPO & EPO? Is the minimum necessary to do their job acceptable or do you expect them to set a "better than minumum" example for the crew by their actions as XPO/EPO?

[ETCS David Kroll]

Stu,
Why should they automaticaly get an award? When these billets were created, they didn't say, anyone filling this billet and not getting relieved gets an award? As senior members of the service, we are all required to hold more responsibility. Thats just part of the job. Every job has its requirements. If you meet those requirements you had a successful tour. That doesn't mean you went above and beyond the requirements.

Dave

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Whoa! A tag team match!

1) I disagree that by simply doing their jobs, any OIC, XPO or EPO distinginguish themselves. You have to do something above and beyond your normal duties.

2) As I said before I write up my XPOs and EPOs because I could be wrong. It's one thing for me to exclude myself from these end-of-tour awards, its another thing to impose my (admittedly minority) beliefs on others. At least, in this regard.

3) I suppose it is hypocritical. But, it's a compromise I make to myself to ensure that I don't adversely impact someone's career if I am wrong.

4) I expect my XPO and EPO to do their best and to inspire others. I have had some that were great, some that were good, and one that was poor. I formally recognized the great ones because I believed they deserved it, I formally recognized the good ones because everyone else seems to believe that they deserve it (just for being command cadre), and I relieved the poor one.

5) Bottom line- So far, I have been a good OIC. I won't accept an award until I do something that makes me a great OIC. I hope to inspire others to do the same. I will write those automatic end-of-tour command cadre awards just in case I am wrong. But in the end, I hope to change some minds. Maybe even yours.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis it takes a big man to almost admit that they were wrong. It is also good to know that you would relieve a poor performer rather than award him/her. You don't have to agree with me on everything, but at least agree with me on this, one of us is wrong. As for everthing else, I guess discretion IS the better part of valor.
And Dave, I'm not advocating the "automatic" award policy, I write people up based on their performance and the standard for the award that I recommend, be it and LOC or COM. I still feel as though anyone that meets the standard that I set down deserves to recieve recognition for deeds done. No one has to agree with my decisions, they are mine to make, and the two most recent awards that I sent to my command were downgraded, not by my command, but by the board. You see they have standards of their own, sometimes involving the pay grade of the applicant or author.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Your a lucky man, Stu, to always get XPOs and EPOs that have been excellent and award worthy.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

As I have said in other posts, I have had a blessed career, and been blessed by the crews that I have sailed with. Have I had problem sailors, yes, at my current unit I have removed four, two for drugs and two for alcohol. All young sailors with pre-existing conditions. The drug issue was resolved thru CGI investigations, a no brainer. The Alcohol involved someone who valved alcohol over making ships movements and the second was a second offender from a previous unit that broke a bone rendering him not fit for sea duty. You see I still have difficult decisions to make as part of my normal routine. I base those decisions on the policies provide to me and ones I implement at my unit. I would hope that prior to reccomending someone for an XPO and EPO tour, their current command would screen them with the same scrutiny that I do. If they did, we could all enjoy the same "luck" that I have.

[ETCS David Kroll]

Hi Stu,
It still sounds to me like your giving cadre positions awards for doing their job. Everyone knows they have to make tough decisions and have added responsibility. But that doesn't mean they are "Superior performers", or does it. If I'm a good supervisor of my ESD, should I get an award? No. If I'm "the best of the best" then yes I should. OIC's get SDAP because of the added responsibility, that is your compensation for the added hours and extra devotion to duty, not the award.
And trust me, I don't always agree with the arrogant one either!
Dave

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Revisiting an old topic..........I recently saw someone presented a lower award than others who have held the same position....because......? They only held that position of great responsibility and authority for a year. The people that wrote that award must be using a different 1650 than me. No mention of their accomplishments or lack thereof.........only that they had held the position for one year as opposed to others who held it for two or three. He who laughs last, doesn't get the joke.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Just glancing through, still trying to catch up on things here as well as stay up on things at work. Of course I always have an opinion, so here goes. Automatic EOT awards for command cadre. Hmmm. I don't believe anything should be "automatic" in the award realm. However, I do believe that if a person that excels enough to achieve a command cadre position, and remember that it takes a recommendation and screening for ANY command cadre position, it says something about that person. Some that can't handle it get relived and obviously would not recieve an award. Command positions are such that they require extra from an individual. Those that are willing and able to do the job and do it well should certainly be recognized. I know that someone will tell me that it is apples and oranges to compare a BM1 in a non-command position to one in a command position, but I still do it. More responsibility and more opportunity to excel and EARN an award. I don't think you need to be a hero to earn an award.
Dennis, what you think might be "just doing your job" may be alot more for someone else. Don't sell yourself short. Skills and knowledge that are developed over years are worth something. Just doing your job may well be a hell of a lot more than someone else could do.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Sorry to chime in so late. In the shipyards and also just catching up on a few threads.

I didn't receive an award for my last XPO tour. (Just so you know there's another one out there). I didn't really feel bad about it until reading this thread...

I only did a year there though. Made Chief and had to go. I did make some improvements to the financial b.s., paperwork, training... but that was my job.

I do however think a tour-complete XPO or EPO should be consideredfor an award. As previously posted, they don't get SDAP.

Another thing to consider is that if they did their job well enough to merrit an award, the OIC should have had plenty of extra time to consider if an award is deserved.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

In answer to the original post, when they don't meet the criteria as defined by the Medals and Awards manual for the award being considered.

Once when told to write up "end-of-tour" awards for the unit's soon to be departed, I took the time to draft an entirely new award citation just for this one person. It was entitled the "Coast Guard Under-Achievement Medal" or the CGUAM for thoes of you into acronyms.

I think they got the point. The person departed with only handshakes and thanks.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

And I'm not saying that the person in question didn't do more in that one year than others in his position did do in three years. Automatic.....no, but expected. If everyone standing in a line gets an ice cream cone, you expect to get one as well when you get to the front of the line. You shouldn't be given a soda and told that the line moved quicker while you were in it. That person went to other COCs in his AOR and watched as people who have done less, recieved more recognition. He was also taken aside before hand and told that he would not be recieving what everyone else already had, so it wouldn't be a shock during the COC. Right, wrong, or indifferent, set a standard....and stick to it. And justifying doing the wrong thing, doesn't make it any closer to being right.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

What I find most interesting is that they pulled him aside and told him that he WASN'T getting a particular award. That sounds to me like there are expected awards...even to the people responsible for presenting them.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Yes, it left me with the impression that though they gave it to everyone else, they somehow felt that due to his tour length, the lesser award was more fitting, and hoped that he agreed. Sort of a "Please don't be mad us for not giving you what you thought you would get" chat session. It didn't quite get the reception that they had hoped.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I think the most important thing here is to be consistant. Recognize those that deserve it at the level that they deserve. I have a Non-Rate that just RELAD and he got a CGAM upon departure. He was here for 4 years and made a major imact on the unit, both operationally and with many physical improvements. I have another guy here that will be departing that has advanced twice and is a real go getter. He is going to be an outstanding Coastie and have a great career. I have put him in for an LOC. Simply because he did not accomplish the additional things that others have. He has earned his reward in advancements and qualifications, but has not lifted the unit as much as others have. Maybe if he was here longer he would have had some projects that he could have done, but not yet. He may be dissapointed but, the award states what it is for. If he wants more clarification, then he can ask and I will tell him.

[ITC Joe Creager]

In my opinion, the question should be "When should a Coastie recieve an award?" vice not recieve an award. Too many end of tour awards that encompass many achievements that should have been recognized when they happened, not 2- 4 years later.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jim, you're absolutely right.
Joe, there are times when you can get the person something for that single event. Other times you may have to wait for a combination of events.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

The "End of Tour" award thing has always amazed me with the responses that it gets. Is there such a thing as EOT awards...yes, it's an award that you give to a deserving shipmate for doing a combination of things throughout their tour that merit an award. Will you find EOT award terminology in the Medals & Awards Manual...No.

Why do so many people have a hard time understanding that the majority of our people get awards at the EOT? People always say things like Joe does...why don't you recognize them when it happens, not 2-3 years later? Is the EOT award really that bad of a thing?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

You only have to look at a COC ceremony to see that the CG recognizes an EOT award. There is something written in the script when the Senior Officer in the Official party presents the out going CO/OinC a formal presentation. Again, other than in Dennis' case, I have never seen or heard of a COC where the departing person recieved nothing to mark the EOT.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Deane you said a few post ago that it sounds as though they are expected. I think you hit the nail on the head. I believe too many people do expect them and get bitter when they do not get them. Even EOT award for commande cadre are some how given to some of those/us who may be less deserving but recieve the same award. This may have been said already.

EOT are not bad things either. I believe we notice all the good/great things our shipmates have done when we realize they are leaving and how much we relied on them. A good way to say thanks!

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Again, though, the real question is "why do we deserve an EOT award simply because we are command cadre?"

Burt- there is another thread somewhere that discusses this in-depth and heatedly.

[PAC Darrell Wilson (Ret)]

I am in 100% agreement with you Joe. Why wait till the EOT? I think a lot of people just put it off till the person is leaving then try to wrap all their accomplishments into one award and send them on their way. Wrong answer. If it is worthy of an award at the EOT, then it surely is worthy of an award at the time it happened.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Darrell...maybe it's not worthy of an award on it's own at the time it happens. Maybe you need to string several events (during a tour) together to come up with a good award recommendation.

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. I don't think anyone that has posted here mentioning EOT awards has said that they don't recognize their people with awards if they do something worthy during their tour.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Personally, I would rather see someone get a CGAM or COM at the end of tour rather then 2 or 3 LOC's throughout. I also agree that it is a nice way of summing up what they have done at the end of their tour and something for others to strive for. When they see multiple accompishments that have made a difference at the unit, they see that it takes more than maintaining status quo to "earn" an award.

[PAC Darrell Wilson (Ret)]

This area is a little touchy for me. Lets look at it from another angle. I did a tour and an extension in an office. Did lots of great things in and out of the office. Did lots of good Coast Guard things. People in the office that did one tour and then left, received achievement medals. This was all done under one supervisor. During my extension, that supervisor retired. New supervisor comes in, I work for him a little while then move on. He is handed a very indepth paper detailing all the things I accomplished and volunteered for during my 6 years there. I end up with a Thank you card signed by him. I heard his reasoning was he wasnt there for any of that stuff so he wasnt going to reward me for it. He also said it looked like just an end of tour award and he didnt believe in them. So if it happened to me, how many others could work almost a full tour for one boss, then that boss leaves and a new boss only sees your work for a few months before you leave. That new boss might not want to reward the member either. Just another angle on it.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

It is an expected and acceptable practice for an outgoing CO/OIC to issue awards and do marks for his senior people before departing.

However, we should be thinking of ways to make those awards prior to the end-of-tour.

[BMC Chris Gempp]

It seemed to be the norm for issuing EOT awards at my unit also. Since the new command has reported, we are fully in support of recognizing people as time goes on (on the spot) not waiting until they leave. If the member is justified an EOT award also, they are put in for it.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Darrell...neither one of your supervisors did right by you. The first guy should have written you up for an award before he/she left. He/she should have wanted to see you get recognized for all of your efforts prior to his/her departure. The second guy should have written you up before you left. His/her logic/reasoning is just dumb.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Deane you could not have said any better, dumb was right.

Darrell, when I left my last OINC job, my XPO was due out the following year and a bm2 was also due to rotate. I contacted my relief and asked if he needed input and provided what was aksed for. But, if he had not asked, I was prepared to write awards for outgoing perosnnel from my new unit. In hindsight, I should have just written them before I left that way I could have presented them. I think it was just not on my list prepping for COC but I will not do it that way again. I agree with Dennis, do it before you leave.