Breaking Policy...?

[BMC John Phillips III]

My question is which or what CG Policy(ies) have you seen the most people or unit's not adhering to or breaking?

The one I have seen more often than I would like to is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things but still bothers me - mirrored sunglasses or safety glasses. Next would be unauthorized jewelry, then and perhaps most irrating, no-shave chit beards that aren't iaw standards. (abuse of the chit by improper trimming or length)

You can also add what you do or have done to correct any of these problems or if you just let it go.

[BMC Trent Spiroff]

Policy Breakers.

One of my peaves are Unit t-shirts/sweatshirts. Especially old worn out shirts from past units.

Not so much of a peave, but another policy breaker is wearing of the fleece liner, from the all weather parka, off base/away from the unit.

It's one thing when your out in the middle of the ocean, but when your shoreside, wear the proper uniform shirt.

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Uniform Regulations, the most reg, policy I see broken. For something that is supposed to be so UNIFORM I see more rag tag variations than I care to think about. It is bad that the individuals are not professional enough to police themselves and look professional. It is worse that commands let their people look like a bunch of...well not military or professional. I will leave it at that.

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Uniforms: The wearing of metal coxswain, surfman, cutterman or boat forces insignia pins with the ODU's. Choose the most current one in cloth and wear it.

Semi-Annual weigh ins. To me, it's a simple program. Well written in pretty plain and simple terms on how to measure and weigh personnel. Not to mention the timeline to weigh personnel. Does anyone recall the last message that came out listing the units that did not comply and have 100% accountability? How about the units that this was there second time of not being in compliance? Now I'm sure some of the units might of had a legitimate reason for not weighing someone (Hospitalization comes to mind). Are those CO's/OinC's being held accountable for failure to follow this program that is being watched from up on high?? I was talking with a fellow Chief this week who is having a hellacious time with his command over this. During the last weigh in, instead of weighing everyone, the XPO asked everyone how much they weighed. This next weigh in he is going to make sure everyone is weighed, if not, up the chain it goes...

Craig

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I was talking with a fellow Chief this week who is having a hellacious time with his command over this. During the last weigh in, instead of weighing everyone, the XPO asked everyone how much they weighed. This next weigh in he is going to make sure everyone is weighed, if not, up the chain it goes...Craig

Are you kidding me!!!!!

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Folks that cant properly tuck or use the blousing bands on their ODU pants. I truly had seeing white socks because the person is to lazy to adjust the pant legs.

The other one is the Mirrored Sun Glasses. I have some, and I DON'T wear them in uniform unless driving my POV to and from work. As soon as I get out of my car, they come off. I don't wear them to the car; I don't even wear them if I am pumping gas.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Pet peeve - pins on the back of ballcaps. I agree that the uniform regs are the most often broken. In regards to the parka liner, I beleive it is designed to be worn without the parka when weather dictates.

I also make sure my guys polish their boots. I hate "but I work and they get scuffed up"...

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

It's the Uniform Regs that are most often ignored by most. As I've aged, I get more and more, "Nazi-ish" in my demands to conform to the regs.

My personal pet peeves?

The Penmanship Badge.
I just HATE seeing that Skillcraft poking out of that breast pocket.

Sunglasses in formation.
Jeez, we only have quarters every WEEK, and people still can't remember to take off the shades.

Sunglass styles/colors/logos.
Orange isn't on the list... nor is red, nor white. And the logos aren't supposed to be as big as a baby's fist!!!

Sewn-in short sleeves on the ODU.
Last time I saw it, I called for an immediate DC drill. We all rolled our sleeves down... and looked at the two guys that couldn't. I told them to replace the unservicable uniform shirts. When they complained that the new shirts wouldn't match the old pants, I told them to buy both... and remember that a $60 outlay for a servicable uniform was less that an "UNSAT" and a "Not Recommended" on their marks after a booking chit.

Am I a jerk? Yeah.

[HSC Chris Fly]

Am I a jerk? Yeah.

Well, at least you can admit it and THAT'S the first step! :D

I just don't understand why we are allowed to NOT use blousing bands, tucking the pants look like crap! Is it that hard to use the bands?

I'm always on people about uniforms, the most recent thing that is not really enforceable is the brim of the hats.....the regs say "well formed", what does that mean? To me it means a nice formed bend in the bill, to others (and I've seen a CPO with this) it means pretty much a flat bill becuase that's what's cool now. I tried to enforce this on my last boat (as an HS1) and the CPO mess determined that as long as the bill has ANY kind of bend, it was OK. You can imagine how slight some people were able to bend the bill!
That's my rant,
Chris

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Are you kidding me!!!!!

Steve, I wish I was kidding you.

[QUOTE=MSTCS Gerald P. Montoya] The Penmanship Badge.
I just HATE seeing that Skillcraft poking out of that breast pocket.
[QUOTE]

Gerald, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are now allowed to place your pen in the front left breast pocket (ODU's), and that there is nothing that says it can't show now. In the previous uniform manual it was strictly prohibited, but not now...

Craig

[BMCS Bill Gheen]

Jerald,


You might want to consider reading the regs, prior to you enforcing your personal pet peeves.

Terms to cionsider:
definition of formation
definition of quarters
definition of muster
Pens in ODU's

[S/A Gerald Griner (PSC)]

In my "yout" I was in formation while a CDR trooped the line. He stopped in front of me and asked if "that was a coffee stirrer in my pocket" (of my working blues). Just the top of the silver tip was sticking out the top of the pocket flap.

I promptly extracted the object and replied, "NO SIR, US GOVERNMENT SKILCRAFT, SIR!"

Luckily, all it earned me was a nod, a smile, and he moved on.

I never did tell him that it had been used to stir coffee on occasion... :D

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Well, at least you can admit it and THAT'S the first step! :D

I just don't understand why we are allowed to NOT use blousing bands, tucking the pants look like crap! Is it that hard to use the bands?

I'm always on people about uniforms, the most recent thing that is not really enforceable is the brim of the hats.....the regs say "well formed", what does that mean? To me it means a nice formed bend in the bill, to others (and I've seen a CPO with this) it means pretty much a flat bill becuase that's what's cool now. I tried to enforce this on my last boat (as an HS1) and the CPO mess determined that as long as the bill has ANY kind of bend, it was OK. You can imagine how slight some people were able to bend the bill!
That's my rant,
Chris

Have you ever watched the Monster Garage episodes? Jesse James used to wear his hats like that (flat bill). I thought it looked terrible.

[HSC Chris Fly]

Have you ever watched the Monster Garage episodes? Jesse James used to wear his hats like that (flat bill). I thought it looked terrible.

Makes them look like an idiot! I always figured if the Chief said "well formed" is a curved bill than that's what it is, but not at my last unit!

[BMC John Phillips III]

pins on the back of ballcaps.

I noticed this was discussed in the most recent uniform regs update and was disapproved. I have seen this a lot too, but I haven't seen it recently.

Chris, those are called "bucket hats" at least that's what I was told and yes they look ridiculous. I had a guy at my last unit that spent $50 on one that little H's and stars all over it (for Houston Astros). He was the laughing stock of the crew for it, but still wore it. In an unrelated story - he just popped positive for marijuana. Glad I wasn't around for that one, my reaction to that may have gotten me into some trouble.

[AMTCM John Long]

I don't like the flat hat look too much either. However, I especially don't like hats that are too rounded. Looks too much like a Woody Woodpecker hat! I concur with Chris's question, what does "well-formed" mean? My view is it should worn close to the way it was issued or bought. The hats I have seen at the local exchange have a built-in curve. IMO, hats that form an apex at the top should be replaced. They have lost their issued form.

I don't have too many pet peeves. I don't normally let things like that progress to the point I'm "peeved". Less stress if you follow Barney Fife's #1 rule....something about bud nipping??? :cool:

John

[MKCS Mark Cummings]

Me thinks that we are getting a might to.. Pardon the term... "Anal” we should enforce the regs evenly and consistently. Pet peeves are just that. Let's not let our own personal views interfere with the intent and letter of the regulations. Good order and discipline are important, just because one and I do mean one person does not like a certain way that a uniform item "can" be worn does not mean that the WHOLE Coast Guard should then follow in lock step with that ONE persons view of what they may think is the correct way to wear a uniform item, unless that view has been approved by the Uniform Board. Follow the regulation, nothing more, nothing less.

Do you really want to be compared to the NAVY! Talk about putting your people under their thumb, we, the Coast Guard is far above that type of "anal" behavior.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Me thinks that we are getting a might to.. Pardon the term... "Anal” we should enforce the regs evenly and consistently. P

I can see where you're coming from, but I am not talking about pet peeves. I am talking about people at other unit's not adhering to Coast Guard policy. I realize someone is going to throw out it's our responsibility to correct these deficiencies and trust me I do when it's appropriate, but timing and situations are what they are and sometimes all you can do is look and shake your head.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about what I was asking.

So far, pet peeves aside, I am seeing people noticing the same or similar violations. How can we correct this?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

So far, pet peeves aside, I am seeing people noticing the same or similar violations. How can we correct this?

We can only control those things that we're in contact with. If we all do that, everything else will work itself out.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I will buy that, but it seems to me that the people wearing mirrored sunglasses or hat pins or whatever else they are doing -have to know - what they are doing is wrong. If not someone at their command certainly does, but why is it happening so often? Is it that people are viewing these "rules" as small or minor? insignificant even? I am just curious what others think...I have my own theories.

[AMTCM John Long]

Is it that people are viewing these "rules" as small or minor? insignificant even? I am just curious what others think...I have my own theories.

How about some folks struggle with leadership transitions and don't like being viewed as the bad guy. They have a hard time identifing their roles. They struggle with "when to be buds and when to be business". I went thru that years ago. Enforce the rules equally and fairly on everyone. The folks will know where you're coming from and will respect you for that.

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

The reason policies are not being applied equally is because they are not by individuals whom should be enforcing them.

This is not new. While the CMAA aboard a WHEC, I directed some engineers to leave the mess deck because they were dressed in their dirty coveralls. They whined and left, but came back still dressed in the coveralls and told me "their Chief" told them they did not have to do what I told them. "Fine," I said, and told them they could do what I told them or sign a bookin' chit.

I had a talk with the chief later. Another incident envolved two JOs who were student engineers. We had one of those loadouts ongoing for a patrol and I kept finding people hiding out for the working party. About this time, these two officers, without hats and dressed in coveralls, stepped out on deck. They leaned against the rail watching the working party. I strode up behind them and told them to get in the line.

They studdered and stammered for a few minutes and then declared themselves officers and they didn't have to do the work. I told them to prove they were officers. They wore no insignia, no hats, and when asked for their ID cards they couldn't produce them either. After about an hour of humping vegatables and dry stores for the cooks, I turned them loose. They never forgot the lesson. If the SNs and FNs had to follow the rules the officers were going to as well. The XO thought it very funny.

Equal application is the key. Consistency. The mechanism to get this through the Coast Guard is the CPO Academy. Every person who goes there should come away with the same concepts to pass on to others.

As far as hats, yep, the flat bill does look dorkey, but it is a fad an it too will pass. In the 1970s when the CG used the navy flat front ball cap it was nearly impossible to get a cruve in the bill. You had to soak the hat in hot water to soften the plastic and then work on it. Sorta like putting that bell in the white hat. (Airdales called them wings).

The way to solve the bill situation was dissapproved. The eight-point hat would create a uniform method for wear. We had them in Vietnam and served very well including those people who used to heavily starch them and stretch them over a coffee can.

The best ball cap was the 1960's navy one. You could roll it up and stick in your pocket when you went inside. It also had a nice curve to it.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Mark, by pet peeve I was not voicing my opinion. Check the regs, your boots must be blackened. Even though it was recently "shot down" by the uniform board, they did not remove any reg stating that you can wear pins on the back of your ball cap, they simply denied a request to have a reg saying that you can.

"Unit Ball Caps Are of the commercial ball cap type in the same approximate colors as the issue ball cap. Rear mesh panels and adjusting tabs are authorized. Unit name, location, and hull numbers may be permanently affixed to the front face of the cap allowing room for the required rank insignia or CG device as on the issue ball cap. No additional lettering, logos, or artwork is allowed. "

I know that it is commonly accepted to have "OIC, XPO, EPO, ..." embroidered on the back of caps, as well as "plankowner". I beleive it was mentioned in the old uniform regs, but I find no mention of it in the current version except as you see above.

A pet peeve, for me at least, is an infraction of the rules that when you see it really bugs the crap out of you. Doesn't mean it is just a personal dislike.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I probably have more pet peeves than most.

One of mine is the use of personal cell phones. If it wasn't issued by the unit, I don't want to see or hear it. Nothing pisses me off more than when we're at quarters/muster and someone's cell phone starts ringing. Not a good day.

Another pet peeve is the wearing of support bracelets (i.e. cancer awareness) in uniform.

I could keep going...but I won't.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Another pet peeve is the wearing of support bracelets (i.e. cancer awareness) in uniform.


I think the only ones authorized are the POW/MIA Bracelets

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I think the only ones authorized are the POW/MIA Bracelets

Medical alert bracelets are also authorized.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I think the only ones authorized are the POW/MIA Bracelets

That is certainly the way it was prior to my retirement..

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I probably have more pet peeves than most.

One of mine is the use of personal cell phones. If it wasn't issued by the unit, I don't want to see or hear it. Nothing pisses me off more than when we're at quarters/muster and someone's cell phone starts ringing. Not a good day.



Man, I hear that. That whole cell while in uniform thing drives me nuts. I told my folks to leave them in the car when they come in to work, because I don't want to see them.

I guess for me it's the Uniform Regs that I see the most violations of. It never fails, you go anywhere in our service and you see somebody out of uniform, or walking around with their hands in the pockets. And you can bet that I address it on the spot. What amazes me is half the time I see it, it ends up being something authorized by the local command. I must have missed the day at OIC School when they said "don't worry about that COMDTINST, it's just a guideline. Go ahead and make your own policies."

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

That is certainly the way it was prior to my retirement..

Wray... :cool:

Welcome to the board Wray.

[AMTCM John Long]

Welcome to the board Wray.

I was waiting for someone else besides myself to speak up.

Greetings to Wray and Bill.

Sorry, back to topic.................

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

I have to agree with the "unit" T-shirts and sweatshirts. At most units that they are authorized it doesn't take long before they replace the proper uniform, which is usually left at home.

And Deane I'm with you on the cell phones. I have written a cell phone instruction to cover basically what you said. And by the way they don't float too well, just remember to take out the battery first.

And in the interest of honesty, the one I break everyday. The insigina on my ball cap. Yeah I know bad Chief, guess I'll have to change that soon though.

And welcome Wray, great to see ya here.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

And in the interest of honesty, the one I break everyday. The insigina on my ball cap. Yeah I know bad Chief, guess I'll have to change that soon though.


I'm with you on the insignia thing Bruce...to include my parka.

How many of you break the policy on how to formally/informally address personnel? I know that I do and so does probably 90% of the CG.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

I didn't put it on my parka, but I do have an OinC Alfoat insignia below the anchor on it. I find it make it easier when it's hanging up with a bunch of them. It saves me from checking for something in a pocket and no one else is too likely to walk off with the wrong one.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Man, I hear that. That whole cell while in uniform thing drives me nuts. I told my folks to leave them in the car when they come in to work, because I don't want to see them.

I will third that personal cell phone peeve. I have actually put in my standing orders some flexible rules about the use of cell phones, but I made it pretty clear that they should be disruptive or distracting in the work place. Leaving them in the car is probably a good idea, but so far we haven't had any issues.

This was more of an issue for me on cutters. Where people would leave their cell phones unattended and their obnoxious annoying ring tones would be going off. UNSAT.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I didn't put it on my parka, but I do have an OinC Alfoat insignia below the anchor on it. I find it make it easier when it's hanging up with a bunch of them. It saves me from checking for something in a pocket and no one else is too likely to walk off with the wrong one.


Maybe something to consider for Uniform Board 42 -- SIGH -- I wish I had an insignia

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Maybe something to consider for Uniform Board 42 -- SIGH -- I wish I had an insignia

Your lack of an insignia says it all...

[BMC John Phillips III]

can you imagine this in a fine pewter?

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Hey if they can authorize an insignia for the CG Band so the MU's have something to wear I guess that on for the PA's isn't that far of a reach. Afterall aren't there more PA's ot there than MU's.

And if we keep going everyone can look like a third world country General soon enough.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Hey if they can authorize an insignia for the CG Band so the MU's have something to wear I guess that on for the PA's isn't that far of a reach. Afterall aren't there more PA's ot there than MU's.

And if we keep going everyone can look like a third world country General soon enough.

Ain't that the truth... in my opinion the CG has gone way overboard with insignias & ribbons.. they are rapidly loosing their value and meaning.

While it is nice to earn them, putting them on can be a pain in the A$$.... although all rates do not have an insignia, is that so bad? Everyone gets a pay check... What's the problem?

Wray... :cool:

P.S. Thanks to all for the "Welcome Aboard".... now we need to get BMCM Gary Keen here.. He and I go back a long time.... I'm sure he will have some interesting posts for all to read & comment on....

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I was thinking something like this:

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Steve,
If you came up with that on your own, you have WAY too much time on your hands :D

[HSC Chris Fly]

Steve,
If you came up with that on your own, you have WAY too much time on your hands :D

Well, he is a PA what else does he have to do? ;) :D
Chris

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Steve,
Any guidelines to go with it (permanent vs. temp)??

How about temp after first five pictures published, permanent after 100...

Something tells me you've opened yourself up to a whole lot ribbing with that little design... This is going to be interesting.

Craig

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I'll confess, I didn't come up with the design, it has been floating around the rate for awhile, origins unknown. I just had to counter the "merit badge" that JP3 posted.

Requirements:

Temporary: advance 3 ranks within 1 first tour out of A-school without taking a SWE. Also authorized for Unit Collateral Duty PAOs who succesfully attend the COPAC Course

Permanent: Be able to point out all errors in the Public Affairs Manual without actually opening it up and reading it.

There is no Gold for Officers

[BMCS Dave Considine]

A few years back there was a good Yeoman Pin logo floating around, I think it had crossed staplers with a paper clip background. I must not have kept the e-mail.

The PA one would be even better if you had the liitle camera be able to take an actual photograph, with todays technology they should be able to make that happen. Either that or squirt water when someone looks at it.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

The PA one would be even better if you had the liitle camera be able to take an actual photograph, with todays technology they should be able to make that happen. Either that or squirt water when someone looks at it.

I'm on board with the squirting camera, if it actually took pictures, I couldn't wear it in a secure space.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Sorry if this is off topic, but a few years back this was going around the e-mail spaces. Kind of in line with JP3's merit badge. Ribbons that aren't out there (yet).