TANB Night Nav

[BMC Mark D. Emerson]

Here is something that I have have questioned and I was asked about it today and thought I would post it for discussion in here. The current TANB does not have an operational RADAR should night hours be required on them? I know in the past we have always run the non-standard boats at night but now it says you need an operational RADAR. Thoughs

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

I voted no. No radar. No operation at night. Same goes for fog, projected fog, or heading towards fog. No radar, no operation. Just my opinion. Now, up until we retired the last 30 ft Surf Rescue Boat a few months back, we were doing just what I stated above I would not do.

I don't recall ever seeing you must have an operational radar regardless, hell I would have quit running that boat at night.

The operation of a boat without radar at night was something that was dealt with on a case by case basis. Full moon, no clouds, and a fully operational Color Garmin GPS plotter, fully self-contained unit and yes the 30ft would take off up the coast 15 miles.

What always made me laugh was the distance off shore we could go with or without radar. I could run 15 NM offshore with the 30ft anytime up to 15ft seas without a radar. But I could only go 10 miles offshore up to 6ft with the RBS fully loaded. Things that make you go hum. :D we could run North and South the entire AOR, way more than 10 NM but as long as it was not offshore it was all good. I know, I know, not a lot of container ships running close to shore to watch out for just something I find funny.

Luckily, we were able to put something in place to get a "waiver" to operate past 10NM for the RBS. Especially on those flat days when the rec boats are out chasing tuna, or trolling for salmon 12-15 NM offshore. If I have to keep the boat, I might as well use it...our harbor patrols seem to go so quickly... :D

CS

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I voted no as well. Without a radar, I think that it's unsafe. There is an instruction written about not requiring night hours for TANBs less than 21 feet.
I just don't see the need for it. We don't work AtoN in the dark. The current TANB is only used in sheltered waters. When and where would I need to travel at night ?

[BMC Hank Macchio]

I voted no as well.. I recently went through this discussion with the gentlemen that wrote the BOAT Manual. My question to them was in regards to the BOAT Manual and the Non-Standard Boat Manual.

The BOAT Manual states that we do the required hours both day and night and associated drills per boat type. This is all well and good procedure and many of us have been doing this for years, but when you read through the Non-Standard Boat Manual it states in the restrictive discrepancies (page 5-8) " Radar inoperable, if so equipped (for night operation or less than one mile visibility).

My question to them was when the sunsets, does my TANB go into a restrictive catagory and therefore do I need to complete night hours on the TANB? Or do I need to request a waiver everytime I operate at night?

The answer I recieved was less than informative but I was referred to the BOAT Manual to apply for a waiver to the Chief of Operations in my District to never operate the TANB at night. I do not plan to do this but I have come up with an alternative. I intend to submit an ECR to have a radar installed on my TANB since I am not due to receive a new TANB until sometime in 09'.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

NO!

I told the RFO guys(yes Ian back when I had a TANB) we were never too far from a boat ramp to get out before dark. Hank has a point and I would argue it till someone told me to get underway then CASREP the boat for night ops due to no radar. Of course the new TANB has one.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

I need to ask a question. Does any of your Sectors ever count on your boats doing PWCS if they go to MARSEC 2? Just wondering since I know they are arming the ANTs. If this is the case, do they expect you to operate at night? I am thinking of a port similar to Boston. If there is any chance you could be used in that capacity, then it makes more sense to me to have the night hours on the boat so your prepared.

If the answer is no, then I agree there is no need to have night hours and night recerts tasks for the TANB.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I voted no as well.

When I got to Colfax there was a TANB here, but it did not fit at the unit with the ops and AOR, so I got rid of it. I do have a 20' KAHN that is labeled as a UTL that we use, and it has no radar.

Due to our AOR, the hazards we operate around, and all but 1 of our Aids being unlighted I submitted a memo to HQ (Boat Forces) requesting a permanent waiver for night hours. The memo was sent through the COC, and was approved pretty quickly, and now we not only don't have to do night hours for currency maintenance, the letter states we cannot get that resource u/w at night. Getting that waiver depends on where you operate, the missions you might be tasked with, and how well you can articulate why you need it.

Burt, I'm just pickin with you man :D

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I know Ian.

Here is my "asset" that D17 Chief of Staff, Adm Glenn gave me. So I have a boat!

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

That is so cute!

[BMCS S. D. Peters]

Burt glad to see you are getting some use out of your boat :)

I voted no. I had this same fight with my TANB and kept getting the answer that they never needed a radar in the past. My reply was " Boats used to be wooden and you sailed or rowed them too!" After stating I was going to casrep my boat for night ops since I did not have a radar and was puting my crew at risk my persistance paid off. A standard SINS package was purchased and installed along with a nice tee top. (I have an non standard 23ft classified as a TANB). My reason for fighting for the radar and top is that although we donot work ATON at night in Alaska that only leaves us about 6 hrs to transit; work a light and return home. We have to transit at night just to get to an aid and have time to work it. Plus the WX can turn in a blink of an eye and go from clear to no vis in a matter of minutes. Do your ORM and if it puts you in the red and you feel it is unsafe push it up the COC and hopefully they will get it changed. The new TANB does come with a radar but until you get it I say it is unsafe to operate at night with out one.

[BMC Eddie Lawrence]

Ok, going against the grain here for sure. Yes, night hours should be required on a TANB. (if Steve Craddock is reading this he is laughing his ass off) How many of us ever ran a case at night on a boat without a radar? This subject has been broached so many times it's rediculous. I see a lot of people, good meaning people, spending lots of time trying to figure ways out of the requirement. I know, I was one of them. But then it's like lets just do this and be safe about it. I was doing it a long time before it was a requirement and i'm still around so guess that says something! Lots of good points made so far like do your ORM. If your in the red, keep it on the trailer! Also as said earlier, this will fix itself in the near future with the arrival of the 26'ers! Bottom line is do it, cause the requirement aint goin away!

Now slap me around for a while. I am getting cantankerous in my upper youth!

[BMC Mark D. Emerson]

Upper Youth????? don't you have to be in your 40's to be upper youth :) ?

My area is very large and I manage the night hours and crew endurance factors, ORM, GAR Weight v. Gain, ETC... The trend of the Coast Guard is to perform everything safely, and evaulate it prior to doing it. The New TANB has a RADAR, Just look in CG Magazine the guys are standing behind it as it is underway.

My reasons for running at night and having my crew do the same is 2 fold:

1) If the weather turns, the light won't work the boat only runs on 1 engine, they get diverted when night comes they are prepared.

2) Verrifying my AOR at night seeing what the mariner sees, with the ICW, Ranges it is the best way to see what is working, not working or is doing a bit of both.