Origins of the MK rate

[MKC Wayne Cox]

I was recently asked by a PCPO if I had any information on the origins of the MK rate. I'm curious myself now. Does anyone have any info?

Wayne

[MKCM Keith Livingstone (Ret.)]

The MK rate was created back in 1974 ... a merger of Engineman (EN) Boiler Technician (BT) and Machinists Mate (MM)

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Wayne,
This is what I found when I went thru CCTI. I believe it came from the force managers web site. One of those Google search things.

“MK Rating
About 1972 or 1973 the age of the steam powered cutters was winding down. The 327’ Secretary Class stayed on till the early 80’s if I remember, but the 255’ Lake class was on the way out rapidly. The Machinist Mate (MM) and Boiler Tenders (BT) were going the way of the dinosaur. The MK rating was the offshoot of the merger of those ratings with the Engineman (EN). If I remember, some of the steamships had an EN aboard to care and feed the MSB’s and E-Generators. The MK’s with a MM or BT background were still kind of thrown onto the 327’s but as more cross training developed they eventually became on happy, although a bit odd, family.

I don’t have the actual answer as to what thought process at headquarters (oops, I just implied that there was thought at the puzzle palace!) went into the decision to give us the title “MK”, but I am proud to wear that title and thank God that I am not an MT. MT was taken by the Navy for its missile Technicians, as was MR for Machinery Repairman.

That is the exact answer I have, and have had for many years. Now the tech has the K sound, hence MK. So, we went with that.”

That’s the best information I could find on the MK rate. Hope it helps

[MKC Wayne Cox]

Thank you both for the information. I had heard some of that word of mouth before but when I was asked about it it made me wonder about the origins, what the thought process was, behind the mergers. It makes sense with the decom of the steam plant ships. Thanks again.


Wayne

[BMC John Phillips III]

I can't believe all of the responses have been serious ones. Talk about missing a perfect opportunity! ;)

[MKC Wayne Cox]

Me either :D

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

MK = MeKanic

Happy JP3? Now we are set up for the "BM" joke.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

MK

Monster Knuckles?

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Jim,
Would that be the one that goes "If you can't make rate, go boatswainmate"? :D

Or maybe it's the one about the origins of "Coxswain". You know it's Latin in origin so lets break it down. "Swain" means "Lover of", and "Cox", well we all know the meaning of that... :eek: :eek:

Craig

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Dammit JP3, now you see what you made me start? LOL

I have to admit, those are some pretty good zingers. I was thinking in more clinical terms myself though.

[MKCM Brett Ayer]

Jim,
Would that be the one that goes "If you can't make rate, go boatswainmate"? :D

Or maybe it's the one about the origins of "Coxswain". You know it's Latin in origin so lets break it down. "Swain" means "Lover of", and "Cox", well we all know the meaning of that... :eek: :eek:

Craig

Craig:

This is the kind of thing you come up with when you spend too much time on ATTU. it does things to your mind. Now get off the internet, get back to work, and leave the rats alone :)

Wayne:

If you need something more, I can go down to the Historians office and see what I can dig up.

Brett

[MKC Craig Thorngren (Ret)]

Brett,
Our kill count for the month of November is now 41... We don't use the blow guns like we did back in 88, we just have a dunk tank and drown them...
As for "get off the internet" this falls under working with the Chiefs Mess in my EER. :)

Craig

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I feel the same way Craig. I’m in the Chiefs Mess doing Chiefs business
BM= Big Monkey
GM= Giant Monkey
EM= Enormous monkey
MK= Monkey Killers

[MKC Wayne Cox]

Thanks Master Chief, I contacted the historians office and their response was that they had no information on the rating mergers. I was merely curious after I had been asked about it myself. My neighbor is a retired MKC that I found out was an EN before the mergers and he had a little insite as well. As I said, just curious.

Thanks again

And for the passengers in the peanut gallery, you have your own pages to goof off on ;)

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Sorry Wayne I couldn’t resist putting in a plug for the MK's
Does anyone know how we would go about gathering some info and maybe putting it on the intranet. Someplace like the MK Force note page of maybe adding it into a short 10 to 15 min lecture in MK "A" school.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

A bit of information on the engineering side, from 1915.
1915 - 1920
The Engineroon ratings Were the Machinists Mate / Oiler & the Watertender
1920 - 1948
Machinists Mate and Watertender were still the main ratings. In the 1920s a rating of Engineman was established, following the USN, but this was for the internal combustion engines and were not considered as highly trained as the Machinists Mate. The Engineman was dis-established in the 1930s.

In WW2 the rating of Motor Machinists Mate was established to handle the internal combustion engines.

All the engine room ratings started as second class petty officers. The grade of Foreman First Class was the same grade as third class petty officer in the other ratings. In 1944 the rate of Machinists Mate, Watertender, and Motor Machinists Mate third class were created.

In 1948 a major re-organization of enlisted ratings created the present day structure. Two letter abbreviations were established for the trades. The Engineman (EN) rating was created from the Motor Mach & some Machinists Mates. The eight toothed gear face was chosen as the specialty mark.

The merger in the early 70s as mentioned earlier combined the Machinists Mates (MM), Boilerman (BT) and Emgineman (EN) into the Motor Killer (MK) on today.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/BosunDana/USCG1916.jpg

[GMCM Bill Wells (Ret)]

Dana,

The MoMM was around well before WWII. There were also, dare I say it, Aviation MoMM as well.

I have spoken with some of the real old guys in the past who were MoMM. When transferred they not only had to carry their sea bags, mattress, blankets and pillow but their tool box as well.

The first warrant engineers were Chief Oilers. It believe they did everything in the smoke hole.

The three ratings you mentioned were merged because steam was dying out in the CG. However, most MKs stayed at the jobs they were doing until all the steam ships were gone. The former ENs were glad to get an older BT on board the diesel ships. The BTs handled the evaps for water making. They essentially became water tenders again.

Don't forget they were all left arm rates.

[CWO Dana Lewis (QMC) (Ret)]

Correct you are Bill, I keep forgetting about the earlier Motor Machinists. I think it is because I keep thinking of the specialty mark of the propeller with the single blade up, and the letter M O on either side. The earlier mark was just the propeller. Surprisingly, OILER is still an engineroom rating on merchant vessels.

I found some crew photos in the CG Museum NW from the '20s & '30s, and they identify some crew as Eng 2c, which must have been that old engineman.

BTs were an interesting bunch. Even on the 378s when they first came out there was a BT1 aboard.I remember on one Ocean Station some piece of machinery was down. From the crew mess on a 255' you could look straight down to the engineroom main control.

A slug of the engineers were hunched over something, I dropped down and just asked how things were going. The Warrant Machinist, elbow deep in sludge, looked up and said, to the effect, " I'd like to make an obscene jesture and comment towards this particular piece of machiney, but we here in Main Control would never stoop so low".

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

When the rates were merged there was little,if any cross training. As a MM that never sail aboard a diesel boat after the merge my 1st set of orders was to the North Wind as Chief in charge of B-1 engineroom, any 3rd class fresh out of EN school knew more than I. As Dana can tell you I knew more about semaphore than diesels. Never did learn to like those rock crushers!!!!

Jim