Slopiey e-maels

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Ifuond thiss on anothr post an it struk mee as somthing im concrnd abuot.

"Here's one reason a degree might be a useful tool for our senior enlisted - excerpted, unchanged, from another thread herein, written by an E-7:

"Ron I noticed that also. A new ship and the ribs are already showing? At least from the picture it looks like very poor workman ship. The ship looks like it’s already ridden out several huge storms already. I’m sure we will except it has is. I have been threw a pre-com and shocked at some of the crap we except. Some of the things I’ve seen. Just a few examples, there were Fire Main(and other systems but fire main is pretty important) valve’s plumed/installed wrong to were you couldn’t open the valve all the way (we had to cut handle so we could open/close Fuel and cooling water valves) they only time you could pump the bilges with the install system was when their was several feet of water in it, we had to hook up additional suction pumps to pump waste oil of the ship because the install system didn’t work. Paint not dry after several months because they didn’t mix they paint properly, out fit items missing, and who do you think fixed all the problems? That’s right we did. On some of the warranty issue they sent us the parts and they ships crew fixed the problem. I couldn’t believe they actually signed for the ship. I know if I were spending that kind of money on something everything would be working right before I signed. It all came down to politics and OER’s. We got X amount of cutters out on time. Things that make you go Hmmm."

I apologize to the chief from whom I took this to use as my example, but regardless of your specialty, at E-6 you might be, and at E-7 and above you most definitely will be writing recommendations, evaluations, awards, training programs and/or technical guidance for a diverse, possibly even service-wide audience. Communication is the key to effective leadership and management. Clear communications lend toward credibility. Conversely, sloppy writing does not."

I have noticed that some of our posters do not have a grasp of proper spelling. A poster could be making a wonderful point, a point that is lost due to spelling errors. If we are posting at work, spell check is available in Word.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'm guilty of the above. I type faster than I read. I proof read what I thought I wrote, as opposed to what I actually put on the page. Should my competency be based on my ability to spell or the grade level of my writing ? That's up to the reader to decide. This isn't a memorandum, an award, or an evaluation. It's a post on a web page.

If you choose to disregard a valuable point because you don't appreciate the poor spelling or sentence structure of the person who posted it, your well within your rights. But who is really losing out ?

I would rather look past the flaws and examine the context.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Ok, I will try to put a positive spin on this thread too.

The CPO Academy recognizes writing skills as one the areas where Chiefs are lacking and dedicates an ample amount of time to effective writing.

Any Chiefs out there that believe their writing skills need to improve and haven't attended, now you have another reason to put in that ETR.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Ray,
I have to disagree about the whole degree thing for our senor enlisted. Unless of course the CG will offer me two years paid to go and finish it. We have been accepted for years without it. Next thing you know we will have to have a Masters or something to make E-8. We don't have to have a degree to relay our experience to our commads, and take care of business. If we all had degree's why not just become an Officer. Go to OCS, make more money. If thats what your after. When have you ever wrote something that your Command didn't rewrite anyhow? Although some should take an english class, like I was told. I still mistype things. I didn't use to take the time to proof read them, or let someone else do it before hitting the magical send button. Just like talking, once it's out of your mouth, it's hard to take back.

[MCPO Francis Jennings]

A related (and perhaps more concerning) problem that I see is the inability to draft a concise, properly-written document. Surely you've seen the long rambling e-mail that encourages you to search for the authors true intent. Some spelling errors I can oversee (although they do detract from the effectiveness of the note), but a poorly crafted document (likely one of many that you receive every day) simply ends up at the bottom of the "to-do" list, regardless of the importance or urgency.

I've learned a few rules. First, use the ABCs, of proper correspondence- Accuracy, Brevity, Clarity and Completeness. Second, put your bottom line first. The first sentence or two should describe the issue and action needed. Don't make the recipient read four pages just to find out that your note should go to some other person (As an example, read my first sentence).

I've thought for years that we don't teach enough proper business correspondence to our Petty Officers. The result is often times an ineffective document; in other words, that's why your EPEF appeal was disapproved!

v/r
Frank

note- Thank you CDR Pat Dietrich- wherever you are- for the admin lessons you taught the young QMC!

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

It is not just e-mails...

I saw a message from HQ the other day "SOLICITATING" for billets. I've seen "BOUYS", among other things.

Isn't there a spell checker in CGMS? I always use spell checker in WORD before I draft a message or for any official correspondence, but a bulletin board? I try and catch them and when I do, I fix them but here, I just giggle and move on.

tde

[BMC Ralph Williams]

Maybe the times are a changing.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/11/nz.text.ap/index.html

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Ray,
I have to disagree about the whole degree thing for our senor enlisted. Unless of course the CG will offer me two years paid to go and finish it. We have been accepted for years without it. Next thing you know we will have to have a Masters or something to make E-8. We don't have to have a degree to relay our experience to our commads, and take care of business. If we all had degree's why not just become an Officer. Go to OCS, make more money. If thats what your after. When have you ever wrote something that your Command didn't rewrite anyhow? Although some should take an english class, like I was told. I still mistype things. I didn't use to take the time to proof read them, or let someone else do it before hitting the magical send button. Just like talking, once it's out of your mouth, it's hard to take back.

I also agree that forcing someone to get a degree is a bad idea, I would rather leave it up the individual, make it a personal choice.

I'm not perfect, I know I make the occassional spelling error, however, creating The Anchor all these years has made me aware as to how important it is to have writings that are concise and easy to read, with a zero tolerance for spelling errors (thank goodness for Word and spell check!!)

I have to shake my head when I read messages from HQ that contain spelling errors, who proof reads those things anyways?

[ETC (FT type) Ed Shank]

I think some people are taking this a little too seriously. There is a huge difference between EPEF appeals, awards, etc. and posting on a discussion board on an internet forum. I put a lot of time into professional items, whereas here, I might actually react and write more openly and honestly without trying to appease everyone with proper grammar and spelling. I do review what I post but this is a discussion board. If you are in the mess and someone says me instead of I do you stop them and correct them? Do you dismiss what they said because they didn't speak properly? I hope not. This is a written discussion, if you are going to ignore a point, or dismiss an argument based on puncuation and grammar then that would be the reader's loss.

As far as word being abailabe at work, since I only have a half hour a day for personal use of government owned equipment, I think I would skip drafting my reply in word so I can move onto other things I want to look up.

[BMCS Bill Gheen]

Is pelling a problem? Yes, and we created it.

Lord Cromer in a poem published in the Spectator of August 9th, 1902:

When the English tongue we speak,
Why is "break" not rhymed with "freak"?
Will you tell me why its true
We say "sew" but likewise "Jew"?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
"Beard" sounds not the same as "heard";
"Cord" is different from "word";
"Cow" is cow, but "low" is low,
"Shoe" is never rhymed with "foe,"
And since "pay" is rhymed with "say,"
Why not "paid" with "said," I pray?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
And in short it seems to me
Sound and letters disagree.

http://www.spellingsociety.org/index.php

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I fit into the writing challenged group. I make spelling and grammar errors even using spell checker. But I look at what the intent is meant to have been and not pick apart the writing skills by the individual. I have more important things to worry about. We all make mistakes/errors. I do agree that writing skills are a plus and that was a plus at the academy. But why wait till then. I would rather see more courses offered at a earlier point in ones carrier so when we pin on the anchors we already have the knowledge. Just because you have a degree doesn’t mean you know how to write. Instead of concentrating on making a degree mandatory how about spending that money in “C” school/courses that would more benefit our members in doing the job they are required to do today and not what they might do when they retire.

[ETC (FT type) Ed Shank]

Man O' Man. I bet you were making a really good point Art but you mispelled career and put carrier instead. Guess I will just have to skip what you were saying and wait for someone else to hopefully make your point with the proper spelling, grammar and punctuation.

I'm kidding, however apparently according to this thread people would actually do that.

Excellent point about offering a writing course prior to E-7. I know the old correspondence courses had a section on effective writing in the beginning of them. No one read it of course since the EOCT didn't include it, but it was there. I don't know the answer other then get over it when it comes to a discussion board, and have people proof read your official correspondence.

[MSTC SJ Natale]

Sloppy e-mails..I don't really care. Everyone should use spell check, that is a given. If its "official" information and grammar, syntax, and any other proper word usage should be adhered to, the information should probably be sent via a different avenue other than e-mail.

Now having said that. I do realize we are working with a technology (electronic mail) that should be utilized to its furthest extent. It sure speeds up information flow. Maybe the correspondence manual could include more direction on the utilization of electronic mail as "official" correspondence.

Until it does, I wont judge too harshly on "slopiey e-maels". But that wont keep others from doing so.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I hvae the Sepll Check turned on for my e-mails.

When I'm on a roll, my fingers move faster than my brain can process. I think we need a spell check function on hear! :D

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Well, for what its worth, the FireFox browser has a plugin to do just that. And the Opera Web browser also has a built in spell checker.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Ron, I am getting the feeling your a stockholder in Firefox!

[PACS Steve Carleton]

When the CG has Firefox on the SWSIII, I'll be able to enable it (yep, limited to 30 minutes a day)