CPOA...Did you vote?

[CMC Isherwood]

Since receiving the latest issue of Scuttlebutt from the CPOA National President YNC Jon Ship, a letter from the CPOA President and then a bulk email from the immediate past National Vice President, I have had MANY Chiefs ask me, “what was all that about?”

With out publicly expressing my personal bias, I have included the three pieces of correspondence for you to draw your own conclusions.
(1) Paragraph from the Scuttlebutt,
(2) Letter from the National President,
(3) Rebuttal letter from Past National Vice President BMCS Charlie Womack.

(1)
New National Board of Directors: At this Convention, one of the major changes that came from it was the passing of National Officer's Resolution Number 2 – “Reorganization of Board of Directors”. This resolution was adopted and changed a 45 person BOD to a seven person BOD. There are a lot of changes that have to come about in our organization due to this major change; however, it was for the overall betterment of our organization. The first change as a result of passing this resolution took place at this convention when the two elected Executive Committee
members were moved over to take up two of the three positions that the National Officer’s Resolution Number 2 indicated as “3 elected Directors.” The third position was filled by MKCM Dave Isherwood because he was the third candidate on the ballot for the Executive Committee. I will be addressing this situation in a separate open letter to the membership.

(2)
From: National President
To: Membership, Chapter Presidents, National Officers, and Board of Directors
Subj: National Board of Directors

1. At the 38th Annual Convention, National Officer's Resolution Number 2 –“Reorganization of Board of Directors” was adopted. This means that the National Officers and three elected directors are your new BOD.

2. This was a new concept and we could not hold an election at convention without going out to the entire membership. Others are interested in becoming a member of the new National BOD and must be given a chance through an election by the membership. Therefore, I am holding a special election for those interested in being a member of the BOD.

3. The new BOD did not exist prior to the election of the Executive Committee Members (Jack Crowley and Bruce Garrison) so when it was adopted at convention they did not meet the criteria of the new BOD members and should not be accepted as such without a new election open to all the membership, neither should the unanimously elected third member, MKCM Dave Isherwood.

4. The current three candidates – Jack Crowley, Bruce Garrison and Dave Isherwood will serve as the “pro-tem” new BOD until the election is over and final (a year). They would also be automatically included as candidates for the new BOD election (to serve for three years following the end of the election). Information would be published in the January issue of the CHIEF to solicit nominations for candidates for the new BOD election. The cutoff date to receive nominations in the National Office will be 1 March 2007 (short resumes to identify yourself and why you want to serve). Once received, a ballot will be prepared and published in the April 2007 issue of the CHIEF to have votes returned by 31 May 2007. The votes will be tallied and the winners will be announced in the July issue of the CHIEF. A majority vote of those ballots received will determine the top three winners of those nominations received.

5. I look forward to your thoughts and hope you understand why I have to take the action I have.

YNC J. A. Shipp, SR

(3)
From: Charles Womack [mailto:chwomack@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sat, Oct 07, 2006 10:32
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: B O D Election; Against it

By now you should have the National Presidents letter for a special election. I believe this action is wrong and very unnecessary. It will cost us. It adds pages to the Chief Magazine and that increases cost and postage, plus the return postage. This action severely undermines the Vote and Confidence of the Membership, The Board of Directors concept, and the Convention Process. I ask all Chapter Presidents to inform the membership, become knowledgeable about the issue, provide feedback that reflect the wishes of the membership.

The National President has stated in an email "what the sitting BOD did at convention was wrong." If any part of the process was wrong, then the entire process is wrong. One cannot have it both ways. We cannot have the "pick and chose" method nor allow a dictator style of governing. The BOD could not vote on or pass a resolution changing the By Laws nor any action pertaining to such resolution. It requires a membership vote in accordance with By Laws Section IX. This vote included how the three Director positions were to be filled. During the 38th Annual Convention in accordance with Section IX a quorum was present and previous notice was given. All directors ran for office (the same as the officers did) and all received votes. They are elected! Business done!

The B O D is the governing body, not the National President. The National President does not have the authority to hold this special election. There is no provision in the By Laws for it. Therefore, action of this sort must come from the B O D (D C Code 29 301 18 The affairs of the corporation shall be managed by a board of directors). If calling a special election is not a B O D responsibility, then what is. The National President has made this decision and taken this action completely on his own. In his letter he states "Therefore, I am holding a special election for those interested in being a member of the BOD." By our National President stating "I", it does not look like the action of even the National Officers much less the Board of Directors.

The membership elects their convention delegates to be their voice at convention. They fully understand business for the good of the organization will take place and they not be there. Thus we have delegates. As we do in my chapter, we trust our delegate to make the right decision over issues that may arrise during convention. Delegates and Members go to convention to take care of the organization. As stated above the reorganization vote was a membership vote. The membership elected the two E C members who were to become B O D members and as published the third was nominated from the floor and the entire membership registered as attending convention, voted. The membership that chose not to show up and vote fully trusted their fellow members to make the right decision and they did. 2/3 vote for the resolution which included accepting the two E C members to hold B O D membership (as previously published on our web site) and by unanimously voting for the third member. (also previously published on our web site)

Possible Solutions:
1. The preferred solution is for the National President to withdraw his letter to the membership. Accept the wishes of the membership as expressed during the 38th Annual Convention. Therefore we need the membership to send email to the National President telling him we accept the action of the 38th Convention and there is no need for a special election. Email of this caliber should be addressed to the entire Board of Directors.

2. The B O D meet and rescind the special election action.

3. All Chapters take appropriate action to uphold the decisions of the 38th Annual Convention.

Again, All three directors ran for office (the same as the officers did) and all received votes. In essence the only thing that came from convention was their confirmation.

Respectfully Submitted
Charlie Womack
Silver Lifetime Member 025120
So, I ask again, did you vote?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

For those that are active in the CPOA, please ensure that your Chapter takes this for action. Become educated on the issue and make your Chapters wishes known.

I don't believe that we should be operating this way. I'll stop talking now...

[MKC John Shearouse]

For those exact reasons is why I am no longer a member of the CPOA. They have a hard enough time following the rules. When I was a member I was a member at large so I had no real voice any way. I got tired of it and no longer saw a reason of being in. For those of you, who are still a member or want to become a member I hope it serves you well. With me it did not.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Its things like this, that make me want to pull my $2.00 allotment -- I don't feel like I'm getting anything of value out of this.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

"Growing up" in the Coast Guard I was "brought up" to respect the Mess, to believe that they were invincible. That the backbone of the Coast Guard was the chain of the anchor.

I was taught to revere the CPOA, to recognize its power and strength, to recognize how unified they were as a group and to stand in awe of the influence that it held as an organization.

Today, now a Chief myself, I wonder what happened? It seems to me that we are "broken" to some degree. I can't quite place my finger on it.

I am an active member of the CPOA, I am a strong supporter of the Mess, I am the Mess Treasurer for my unit, I am actively involved in CCTI functions as well as any other functions that we do as a Mess..

But...

It still seems broken... maybe it was always broken? I don't know. Maybe it wasn't as unified as I believed it to be back in the very early nineties....

Can some of the "old dogs" enlighten me? Was it ever really that strong, unified, powerful. Was there really a time when it wasn't so seemingly broken?

Am I off base? My heart is in the "old school".. my mentors were "old school"... I'm all for good change.. but whatever has happened to the greater Mess seems to have been a detrimental change.

Back then, Chiefs were always Chiefs! CCTI was practically mandatory! Chief's calls were definately mandatory! (and Chiefs actually showed up), there were ACTIVE Chief's clubs and they were a blessing to the community.

I'm sure I'll get blasted by some.. but these are my honest thoughts.. what is happening to us? What has happened to us? How do we fix it? What are the steps?

v/r

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

The Did you vote question is paramount in this discussion. In the above and from others I receive personally, we complain and look for ways out instead of being proactive and seeking a better way.

People have been seeking change in our organization for years but our vote rate is less than 10 percent and since those who participate at the national level is less than 2 percent the knowledge factor for elections is whose name is recognized rather than knowledge about the candidates. The result is the same people keep getting elected and nothing changes.

"If you want more of what you got, keep doing what you are doing".

Questions:
What is the vision of the CPOA? unfortunately I have never heard our leadership describe one.
What goals will we meet this year? I have seen no action on anything accomplished at this years convention.

Now, the President wants to throw out what was decided by the membership and do it his own way. These are the kind of battles we are fighting instead of trying our best to provide value to the membership.

I am guilty of not serving our members. I ran for President but did not clearly define my vision. Instead I wrote my resume in a political tone and no one noticed it was any different than the others. The result, might as well keep who is already there.

Veterans organizations such as ours are important to the military members. We need a voice on capital hill. The Coast Guard having a well defined peace time mission and our Chief's holding higher levels of responsibility than our counter parts makes this organization the RIGHT ORGANIZATION FOR THE COAST GUARD CHIEF PETTY OFFICER, past, present and future.

The Chief's are the forefront of Leadership for the Coast Guard. So why do we wait for someone else when it comes to our well being.

Deane, don't stop talking, Start and keep on talking loud and long.

Eric, Steve and John, don't not be members, be members who are proactive to ensure we are doing what is right for our membership. Productive activity will grow any organization just as sitting back and waiting on others will destroy one.

In Service
Charlie

[CMC Isherwood]

Thanks for the input Charlie, unfortunately in my two positions (PACAREA CMC and CPOA National Membership Chair) it is not "right" for me to PUBLICLY profess my personal opinions regarding this particular subject. However, the rest of you Chiefs out there are not constrained by these same perceived conflicts.

If the CPOA is important to you, PLEASE get smart about the issue at hand and let your opinions be heard. The CPOA National Officer's email addresses can be found at http://uscgcpoa.org/1-cpoa/officers.htm

Your voice does count!! "If not YOU, then Who?"

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Charlie,

I'm most likely not going to pull my allotment and you and I have had some good conversations on the phone about the CPOA -- Since you are just getting into this board, this is a part of a post I made 2 years ago about this very subject, and is even more relevent in light of the posts that started this thread.

You alluded to some of this in your post, there is no vision from the top of the organization.

When I can open up a copy of the newsletter from the Fleet Reserve Asociation, the Navy League, the NCOA, the VFW or any other organization, it is very clear what their position is regarding legislative issues, where is that in our organization? We use that as a sales point to get people to sign up, "we are your voice in Congress" If that was actually true, nobody asked me what I thought about any of the issues and I sure have not seen anything like that come from our organization.



From 2004:

I think that the organization is valuable in its purpose and its activities to support the local communities, both inside and outside of the Coast Guard. Particularly valuable is the junior members seeing the CPOA members working on community service projects.

How do we get more people involved? That is a good question.

Part of the issue is "What is in it for me?" For $24.00 a year, members get a national magazine that always seems to be late, and a card with their name on it. So they have to ask, what is in it for me? And on the surface, the answer appears to be, "Not much!"

Some newer members may be intimidated by the "old-timers" (I think I just poked a big stick at a nasty hornets nest). If all they see is the same old people doing the same old things, they may not be so inclined to participate.

In today's Coast Guard, we have increased OPTEMPOs, deployments and more importantly, family obligations that will be far more important to us when the Coast Guard and all that is associated with it is a distant image in the rearview mirror. Little League games, birthday parties, school plays and other important things in our lives are the things that many of us miss because of our choice to be part of the Coast Guard. While we can't just quit our jobs and spend more time at home, we can limit the things like CPOA that can also impact on our time at home with our families.

So to wrap up this rant and hopefully stimulate some discussion, I see the solution as:

Show the value of the CPOA! Make it worth something for the member their spouse and their families.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Charlie, well said. I became a member at large following my CCTI. I know very little about the CPOA, and honestly never thought of it as a lobbying force like the FRA.

If in fact it is, "The Chief" newsletter should reflect that. All that happens when I open the cover is that I feel guilty for not doing more community service. I see some old faces of people I served under in the past and wish I could have dropped by whichever award ceremony they were at to say HI and see how they are doing.

I didn't vote. I didn't receive anything saying I needed to vote. I probably wouldn't have voted if I received one, because I honestly thought it was an "honorary" thing where they just organized the next years convention.

If you want us up in arms about issues, then please advise us what those issues are. I can write letters to my representative even while underway.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I think the main thing here is that it was done at a convention. No Membership vote was taken. Do I understand that right. So, now, with that said, if we now have a BOD of 8. Who represents our local Chapters? How do we know that our local concerns are being brought up? What will National do for our local Chapters? Do they do anything now for our local chapters?

Lots of questions, not many answers.

Also, I looked at the minutes from the convention. I could not find a motion to change the BOD from 45 or what ever, to 8. How was this change implemented? Did I miss something? I have to admit, I don't know as much as I should or would like to, about the bylaws for the CPOA.
:confused:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Just to try and answer a couple of questions, the motion was National Officer Resolution #2.

The organization is to be managed by a Board of Directors. That is the law. We as an organization could not manage a large Board spread from Honolulu to Key West and have the Board indeed run CPOA. Many time Chapters would not keep National informed of when they held elections and changed officers. Under the old system the Chapter Presidents were the B O D members whose responsibility it was to attend convention and represent their membership. Since I started attending convention in 1995 I think the most actual Presidents we have seen is about 15. We have had as many as 52 chapters. Not a good showing. Yes the By Laws allows representatives for the Presidents and Proxies, but these should be the exception not the norm.

In my research I found (compared to other Veterans Organizations) we had a very large B O D. For example and I do not know the membership numbers other than the F R A is much larger that CPOA their Board is 9 members. TREA is about the same. In other words a group of people who can effectively manage CPOA.

The annual convention should be a membership meeting where the membership is represented by delegates for the purpose of telling the Board of Directors and National Officers the direction WE AS MEMBERS want our organization to go. It then becomes their job to manage that direction.

We not have a National President that believes he is above the Board of Directors, above The Membership and believes he has carte blanche and can ignore the By Laws any time he wants. This simply is not true.

As for the membership not voting, the resolution and supporting documents were published on our Web Site and the resolution was published in The Chief, twice. It was also discussed and publication was provided to the 37th annual convention. First we had to reorganize, then we had a plan for filling the first three spots. By reorganizing we no longer needed the elected Executive Committee members so we simply make them the first two members since they were elected to serve in a similar capacity anyway. Made perfect sence. The third would be nominated from the Convention Floor and elected by every delegate. (every person who attended convention had the right to vote)

In essence all three were elected by the membership, The first two were elected Executive Committee members and we changed their title and duties in order to successfully fill the first three spots. The third which came from the convention floor was Dave Isherwood who also ran for one of the Executive Committe spots. Even though he lost the election (under the old organization) he received votes from the membership voting in the National election as was the obvious choice for the third spot. I believe the membership has spoken loud and clear.

We must send a message to our National President we do not support his one man rule.

I must go now, (attending the Bertholf christening) and will address vision another time.

Respectively,
Charlie Womack

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

In my last post where I say "We not have a National Pres..." should read "We now have..."

OPPS

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

There has been a long standing debate over the Board of Directors as to who they are or can be when it comes to deciding the afairs of the association. The raw idea that they are the Presidents of each Chapter is a good basic start. But to try to enforce a rule that they must be the ones, and only ones who can vote at convention is bull, but there are those "in power" who wanted that. It costs money to get to convention and just how many chapters out there can foot the bill for their President/BOD member to travel and stay there. Most chapter choose to spend their hard earned money doing good in their local communities.

So didn't we create those 2 former Executive Committe positions so that the National Officers could condust business outside of convention in the best interest of the association and act as the BOD? Or didn't that pan out with the lawyers and our charter? So why is now having 3 new National Officer positions any different? Other than it will now cost more of the national budget for them to travel all over the place. And not just too convention.

There have been too many questionable things happening in the asociation over the past several years. We have elections but sometime the full results never come out, just the nemaes of winners. Too many ballots are ruled not valid in the process for many stupid reasonsand the same crowd of people stay in power. Why is it that numerous past National Presidents, some Gold Life members no longer support the association at the national level?

We can all join and vote as some in this thread call for, but I suspect that nothing will change unless there is some outside oversight of our process and practices. The National CPOA is slowly dying, but at least the local Chapter continue to do good things in the interest of the association. What was the last thing anyone can remember that National did that improved anything for anyone other than those in power?

BTW, I still haven't seen my issue of The Chief. But I only get them about half the time no matter how many times I contact the national office and ask why it never shows up. Maybe thats another reason that no one votes, they don;t get the ballot until after the fact if even at all.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Why can't CPOA business, especially at the national level, be done electronically? Why are we conducting business like it's 1977? You're right that chapters don't want to spend money on sending representatives to a convention, so why not have all national business done on a discussion board like this one?

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Dennis, I brought this very same topic up at our last meeting. A MCPO there stated that 3 years ago at a Convention this "Electronic" way of voting was voted down by the membership that was present. One reason was that many of the older members are just not computer friendly. Well, this may have been the feeling 3 years ago, but now?

I proposed at our Chapter meeting that National do an electronic vote for what ever issued they need. But also get the local chapters involved by allowing the non computer users out there to come buy the local chapter on a given day and vote. Then the Chapter officers could seal up the boxes and FedEx/DHL then votes to national. That way, you have the best of both worlds. For those that complain about not being able to come and vote, well, cold as this may sound. I'm sure they have a family member or friend some where that would allow them use of their computer to vote.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Ron one issue with a past election was the mass mailing of ballots by a Chapter. Seems that there is "rule" somewhere that says each ballots needs to be individually mailed.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

hmm, well then, give them two options and a dead line. Internet vote, or mail it in. Still, not that hard and would be faster. Unless there is something in there about a time frame for voting or sending in votes. But that could be revised.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings Again

Something to clear up. There is no 3 additional National Officer positions. The National Officers, that is the Pres, VPres, Sec, and Treas, along with the 3 elected directors are now the Board of Directors. There is a lot of legal reasons for reorganization of the B O D.

The convention will now be a true membership meeting, with the members being represented by delegates (currently listed as the Chapter Presidents). Now this is what should happen.

The convention delegates decide the direction and policy the organization is to take during the year. (we used to use this as our B O D meeting, which was not the preferred way to do business)

The Board of Directors should manage the implementation of the programs, projects, policy, etc the delegates voted on during convention. The B O D should consult on matters that arrise between convention. These are listed in the new By Laws if they ever get published. Mainly, Manage the budget, Chartering/Revocation of chapters/branches, discipline and items not requiring the approval of the membership. All subject to the ratification of the membership.

The Officers are the overseers of the Day to Day business of the association. Paying the bills so to speak. Looking after the property, representing CPOA at various meetings functions as may be needed. All subject to the ratification of the Board of Directors and the Membership.

Business can be conducted electronically. We need to catch up in the electronic age, as we have had issues concerning signatures. That currently requires someone be there or a whole lot of mailing.

Convention is a must. To open it up on a board such as this, we would not have a way to validate who is actually on the computer at the other end. There is still a lot to be said for Face to Face meetings. Once a year is not very often.

Now what is actually happening has already been said in the other post. Our National President has run amuck. We need the membership to stand up on this one.

As for the old E C and the new organization of the B O D they have been and are being misused. Example: this special election ordered by the National President. This is clearly a B O D issue. Yet the Pres, completely on his own, has said it is his decision. He has now decided the 2008 convention. Another time he did not read the By Laws.

Problem: Less than 10% of membership (or at least what was counted) participate in the election. Less than 2% participate in the governing of the association. Effectively speaking 98% of the membership are not familiar with the candidates nor know who is doing what at the National level, so "name recognition" gets elected. For the reasons Bruce mentioned, I recommend elections be held at convention. Less cost. Knowledge of candidates. Requires majority vote instead of plurality vote.

We do need to get into the 21st century, but without change in the leadership, it will be a slow process.

Charlie

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Conducting business in the electronic world? Wow what a concept!

When we get to a point that we don't have to run a note in the Chief reminding people that dues are now $2.00/month since what, The 35th Convention? We will be able to move forward.

[MKC John Shearouse]

After reading these post I find myself glad that I left the CPOA. I wish I did not feel that way but the CPOA is sarting to sound like my grand parents when they fought. LOL. I do hope they get it all repaired so they can move on.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Okay Charlie, point taken the 3 new position are not National Officers, but the Board of Directors. But don't their position still cost the asociation? Are we not paying them travel for meetings with the National Officers? Or for travel for them to meet with their chapter charges?

The one thing I can't find in all the reading on this issue on numerous fronts is why are we having another election for these positions? And there are 2 sides to that answer, but what are they?

And since there is a movement to stop the President from "running amuck", just how would we do that? Just where is the Paul Harvey story on this....

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

I am going to try to not be so long winded.

We paid for the N O's (4) the IPP (1) and the E C (2) in the past. (7) We now have 4 Officers and 3 Directors (7).

We eliminated the IPP as a National Officer. The By Laws now read:
7. Duties of the Immediate Past President The Immediate Past President is a distinquished and honored position, as S/he has just completed a term as National President. S/he shall remain at the call of the current National President and Board of Directors.

The Board of Directors (if used properly) should be able to conduct their business electronically between conventions. A pre convention(within 24 hrs) to finalize their annual report to the membership and post convention meeting to go over the minutes and distribute the work load from the membership mandates is necessary if all is to be done right.

Why the Special Election. The Pres say's the way we filled the first three positions (the elected E C simply becoming board members, and the third being nominated and elected at convention, as was published, was not legal.
Dave Isherwood was nominated and elected by the convention. Dave was the third member on the National Election Ballot and everyone thought the obvious choice. Off the record he did not want Dave on the board. (that is what I think is the real issue) I asked the Pres a question during a barrage of emails between he and I that he has yet to answer.
"What really made the action of the sitting B O D to not be legal"

I asked for the correspondence between CPOA and the Attorney to which I have been led to believe there is none. All he has said is "he did not feel what was done to be legal, and our attorney agrees with me. That is enough." I asked what was violated, his response, "our By Laws" but as you can see he didn't mention what section.
The Pres decided, all on his own, without consulting the Board of Directors nor even just the officers. All by himself, who is "tired of people second guessing his decisions", that the B O D was wrong and the "he" is going to fix it. This one man rule is the real issue with most everyone.

There is a move, it will take some fight, to repair and move on. Move on with a vision, Move on doing what is right for our membership. Stop the politics.

How do we stop him First, communicate to him (copy the Board of Directors) that we the membership will not tolerate dictatorship rule in this organization, nor will we tolerate his complete disregard for the Board of Directors, The Convention delegation, and the Membership. After that the discipline section of Roberts Rules.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Going back to Dennis Endicott's post "chapters do not want to spend money sending someone to convention".

This is the very excuse the President is using to be the lone decision maker.

On many occassion I have heard him speak of the fact the real B O D is not at convention. I will give you two examples:

The first is a quote from an email sent to me:
"I am not accepting anything until it is correct. I have a job to do and part of that job includes carrying out the wishes of the membership, not the people that show up at convention and think they can do anything they want and the National Officers have to carry it out. The action of the sitting BOD was wrong and that is why I am correcting it." (note "I" am...)

The second is in his Shipps Scuttlebutt in the current edition of The Chief.
(the paragraph labled "Commentary".)

You decide what all this means for yourself. My opinion: he is telling us unless everyone get's involved he will do it his way. In other words he is only listening to the "silent majority". People are involved, as he ask in every edition of the Scuttlebutt, so why isn't he listening?

[MKCM Keith Livingstone (Ret.)]

Very interesting discussion ..... I haven't received my issue of the "Chief" yet ... so I'm ignorant of what is going on here. But after quickly reading through this - sounds like a good buddy system is being forced into place.

I've attended many conventions as both primary and alterante delegate. I have observed on many occasion the intimidation of younger ( read inexperienced ) seated delegates by other seasoned members. Which in my opinion causes those members to clam up in a shell and watch the bickering, leaving the convention frazzeled and wondering what just happened. The seasoned delegates should be teaching and nurturing those who will follow ... not intimidating them to a point they lose interest.

If the National President is running amuck .... this needs to be stopped!

I'll be waiting on my copy to show up in the mail - mail seems to come by pony express out here in the country.

Keith

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I am truely blown away by some of what I call double talk. This is fact, From 1969 to 2000 the CPOA had a nation wide BOD consisting of the president of each chapter who met annually and gave direction to four (4) national officers who then carried out those directions period.....In 2000 it was decided by a few to have a executive committee to help run things between conventions, What was their purpose? to make changes to BOD orders between conventions. ( That is illegal ) The EC idea didn't work so they came up with another bright idea, Lets call them the BOD, (wow) NO's resolution #2 was born. So whats the problem? 1st now we have seven (7) doing what for thirty -one (31) years four (4) did. and this BOD is still illegal.

The BOD (chapter presidents) are elected by the membership of their chapter, and the law says that they cannot give up that responsibilty, they can appoint a committee and that committee can be called a BOD but that group must include at least two (2) directors, this committee has none. This group is always junior to the group that appointed them , the chapter presidents and may not change any action taken by their seniors. Any reading of the law will prove this to be facts. All these national officers have tried to do since 2000 is to assume the power of the board, thats illegal and why we have laws to protect our members.

Jim

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I just got my latest edition of "The Chief" and it looks like this will be my last edition of The Chief. Mobile Chapter Resolution #4 passed at the recent convention states somthing to the effect that in order for your vote to count, you must be in attendance at the convention. There is no longer an "absentee" vote. I am sure glad that we are allowed to vote "absentee" in our civil election processes. Can you imagine how many servicemembers would not vote if they had to travel to their home state to cast a ballot? If I have to travel to wherever the convention is held in the United States in order to cast a vote for elected officers of a National organization, I don't need to be part of that. There has been way to much bickering and BS that I have seen just on this site about National that I have no confidence in it anyway. This is just the last straw so to speak. As the saying goes... All politics is local. So is the effectivness of the Chief's Mess. Local. That is what will continue to get my support.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

All politics is local. So is the effectivness of the Chief's Mess. Local. That is what will continue to get my support.


If the local chapters get enough support they should have no problem raising adequate money to send a representative to convention. I have paid my own way, and, had my local chapter pay to send me. That was a nice thing about the conventions moving around the USA... Sooner or later there would be one in your part of the country... Look at the bright side, the 2008 convention will not be held in Las Vegas previously announced.....

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Wray, we if we all work hard enough then we should be able to earn enough for 1 of our chapter members to go to convention and vote. So one chapter equals one vote? If they pay for that priviledge? Funny I used to think that voting was a right.

I'm kind of sorry that I paid for a life membership as it makes it hard to just stop paying dues, which is what the membership should do until this resolution is recinded.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Bruce, I too am a "Life" member... I didn't things would sink to this level. The CPOA, while I was on active duty, seemed pretty strong.. lots of participation and excellent leadership/communication... it doesn't seem that way any more... :( The sad part of that is it also doesn't appear anyone cares. To me, that means, as an organization, the end is near....

Wray... :cool:

[AETCS Scott Wood]

Bruce, I too am a "Life" member... I didn't things would sink to this level. The CPOA, while I was on active duty, seemed pretty strong.. lots of participation and excellent leadership/communication... it doesn't seem that way any more... :( The sad part of that is it also doesn't appear anyone cares. To me, that means, as an organization, the end is near....

Wray... :cool:

Wray, I think the decline began with WIIFM. I'm pretty sure I was introduced to this philosophy at the CPO Academy in 1996--it now pervades.

There used to be a 'brotherhood' but I don't believe it exists on a wide enough scale for the CPOA to survive. Too many of the younger Chiefs today just don't get it.

Do a search on WIIFM... you'll bump into to stuff like this:
<dl><dt class="ItlTermContinueCell"> WIIFMs send a not-so-hidden message </dt></dl><dl><dd>Using WIIFM tactics helps to create or sustain a culture of WIIFM. When we give too much emphasis to WIIFM (and it doesn't take much) we send a secondary not-so-hidden message that acting in one's own self-interest is always acceptable, which implicitly endorses many other behaviors that damage the organization. A WIIFM culture is at a great competitive disadvantage compared with one in which employees are motivated not only by WIIFM, but also by a desire to advance the group.</dd></dl>We teach it, we brought it upon ourselves. Our young learn quickly... what 'parents' allow in moderation 'children' will do to excess.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

During a lot of the post about CPOA I continue to be amazed by how many just say "I quit".

Finding a better way, seeking solutions to problems, was the goal of the Mobile Chapter. We worked to bring new ideas to the floor, and in this forum all we seem to get is a lot of grief about it.

Research, Write, Edit, Rewrite, Approve and submit resolutions, ideas, and solutions is the answer. Our organization is the right association for the CG Chief, past, present and future. Under it's current leadership we have a very hard road to hold until the 2009 convention. Coming together as CHIEF's is our need. Quitting and trying to get others to do the same if a step in the wrong direction.

When asked during the convention, how can CPOA better serve the active duty Chief of today, CMC Isherwood stated we must become RELEVANT. I have heard this for the past couple years now. Instead of people on this site telling us how to become relevant they tell people to quit. Does the CG use the word "Relevant" to mean if it is not already relevant, then just blow it off. Don't waste your time trying to make it relevant. I would be very surprised if it does and I do not believe that is the intent. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have done considerable research into the election process. CPOA was the only organization I found who held ballot elections to the entire membership. This was discussed in the convention thread also. Problems with the old way: Of 9000 members, only 800 ballots was counted. The President (who was running for office) disallowed some ballots. Elections are won in CPOA not by what you do but name reconizition alone. No accountability. A change had to be made.

I was surprised the resolution passed. When submitted, we knew it had to be put on the floor for the reason of at least getting people thinking about it or having a committee study it or it pass as is. It Passed. Even more surprising was the low amount of debate. Many of our attendees are members of multiple organizations and are aware of the process we chose.

Challenge: If you don't like it then come to Houston in 2008 and get the resolution rescinded. HOWEVER, If you come to get it rescinded you must also bring a new solution.

Positive Attitudes, Positive Thinking, Positive Ideas and Ideals, is what it takes to grow our organization.

Charlie

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

I have done considerable research into the election process. CPOA was the only organization I found who held ballot elections to the entire membership. This was discussed in the convention thread also. Problems with the old way: Of 9000 members, only 800 ballots was counted. The President (who was running for office) disallowed some ballots. Elections are won in CPOA not by what you do but name reconizition alone. No accountability. A change had to be made.


So we now go from name recognization alone, to chapter strong-arming? Basically the chapter that now puts the most feet on the floor at convention can push it's delegates into office. So with that Charlie, what are Mobile's plans for the future of the association?

And in all your research into the voting activities of the other organizations, none of them allow for proxy voting but a person with feet on the floor at convention? The delegate that attends from a chapter is no longer allowed under this new system to speak or vote in the interest of the chapter's members? One voice and one vote equal the interest of one person.

And no I don't choose to quit, but I am thinking seriously about turning my back on the national debacle. Maybe it's time for local chapters to sever ties with national and go it on their own. After all aren't all politics local anyway. And now that we all aren't smart enough to make informed decisions about our elections choices unless we pay to vote by traveling, attending and staying at a convention. If all the members of a chapter put not only their annual dues but also 10% of what it would cost them out of personal pocket to attend convention into the local chapter funds, think of how many great things that chapter could do to support the local Coast Guard members and community. After all isn't that what we are supposed to be doing anyway?

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

So we now go from name recognization alone, to chapter strong-arming? Basically the chapter that now puts the most feet on the floor at convention can push it's delegates into office. So with that Charlie, what are Mobile's plans for the future of the association?

And in all your research into the voting activities of the other organizations, none of them allow for proxy voting but a person with feet on the floor at convention? The delegate that attends from a chapter is no longer allowed under this new system to speak or vote in the interest of the chapter's members? One voice and one vote equal the interest of one person.

And no I don't choose to quit, but I am thinking seriously about turning my back on the national debacle. Maybe it's time for local chapters to sever ties with national and go it on their own. After all aren't all politics local anyway. And now that we all aren't smart enough to make informed decisions about our elections choices unless we pay to vote by traveling, attending and staying at a convention. If all the members of a chapter put not only their annual dues but also 10% of what it would cost them out of personal pocket to attend convention into the local chapter funds, think of how many great things that chapter could do to support the local Coast Guard members and community. After all isn't that what we are supposed to be doing anyway?
Well put Bruce, I did choose to quit, now I'm a member of the low country Chiefs mess. About sixty members in the mess and is really on the move. They put on alot of social functions (which is the reason I joined the CPOA years ago) Last month we had a cook-out with music & a golf tournament, there are always activities. The mess is also very much involved in the community, Chiefs to the rescue.

This new election process for the CPOA is one of the dumbest ideas that I have ever heard of, I thought chiefs were smarter than that, these days the convention goer's can't see the forest for the trees.

Jim

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Scott... thanks for the WIIFM info... That makes perfect sense to me, for the decline in CPOA membership.... It is a shame this was introduced, or supported by the CPO Academy. It would be a pretty sad world out there if everyone looked at everthing in that light...

Here is a link for others to take a look at...

http://www.chacocanyon.com/pointlookout/030813.shtml

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I logged on to Direct Access just moments after my last post and cancelled my $24.00 per year allotment. The only way to get through to the folks that passed this "Chavez-like" bill will be for them to lose support from those of us that ARE "members in good standing". The new definition of a "member in good standing" is going to be one that is a full dues payer and one that is willing to spring for the cost of travel and lodging from his residence to the convention site each year. IF the powers that be want the CPOA to be relevent at the National level, then they better let their members have a vote, even if it is absentee. People that want to run for elective office at the national level better get their message out to the members. The simple fact is, I have yet to see anything that National has done for it's members or anything else. All I see is an annual convention with lots of playground bickering. It is the local chapters that are always highlighted in The Chief. If I am going to pay dues to National, I do want to know what it is going to. Break open the books and show me. WIIFM? Yes. At the National level. The rubber meets the road at the local level. That is where the good is done for the junior members and the community. This change in voting ability was National's way to telling me that I am irrelevent. If I want to be relevent, I will have to travel from Alaska to Houston next year to cast my 1 vote. That is not the organization that I joined several years ago. That is not an organization that I want to be part of. WIIFM? Ask the folks that voted for that proposition. That is the most selfish WIIFM thing that I have ever seen in that organization. Leaving CPOA for that reason was my choice. I just posted that to let others know what is going on and they can make their own choice. I was not trying to sway anyone. If the CPOA want's to be RELEVENT on the National level, then they better get busy and let the masses know just exactly what it is that they are doing.

Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I logged on to Direct Access just moments after my last post and cancelled my $24.00 per year allotment.

Yes sir, that is a "voice of reason"... :rolleyes: What would that do to the CPOA if others followed your lead? Come on Senior Chief, get in there and play ball with them, show 'em how to really play ball... don't take your ball and go home.

Wray... :cool:

[HSC Chris Fly]

I'm not far from taking my $24 a year and giving it to some CFC charity. At least there I know it's doing some good, not just funding some old carmudeon's yearly gripe session that's called a convention.
Chris

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Chris, have you ever been to a CPOA Convention?

Speaking of charities, here is a great site for those of us in Florida to ck on management / overhead costs of various charities. Especially important at this time of the year, enjoy!

http://www.800helpfla.com/

Here is another site for all:

http://www.charitablechoices.org/checkout.asp

Wray.... :cool:

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Wray, here is a news flash for you... My "voice of reason" was silenced at the last convention. While I have sat back and quietly questioned what my dues to National was going to, I said very little. Now that my vote is not worth anything to the organization at the National level, I have no reason to support it monitarily at that level. Until I see something good that National has done and is doing with all the dues that are coming in, they won't be getting any more of my money. My resources are limited and I must manage them as I feel they will do the most good. I am simply interested in results. I am not interested in sending some National officer to Las Vegas for a party. I see results at the chapter level. That is where my support will go.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Jim,
I did not know you attended the last, or any convention. Have you written the President (Shipp) a letter and told him of your concerns? Has your local chapter written one as well? I certainly agree about sending a National Officers to Las Vegas for a party. However, the truth is, the National Officers have and will attend every convention regardless of where it is at. I also do not know exactly where the funding comes from to send them there.

Chapters do wonderful things, and their results are much easier seen than those of the National Offices..... but as with most things if you don't see results you should question, rather than withdraw.

Jim, you along with the other active duty Chiefs will make the CPOA what it is.. or isn't. I hope you all make the right choice.

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Wray, there is a line item in the budget that cover travel and per diem costs for national officers. Although there is a line item max amount, under the new national administration system they (national officers) can amend that amount. So bottom line, we the members pay fo their travel and fun, almost totally and without limit.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

So bottom line, we the members pay fo their travel and fun, almost totally and without limit.

I certainly have a problem with "without limit".... Don't they make their expenses known and published? Receipts?

While they "can" amend the amount, have they? What justification did they have for doing so, if they did?

Lots of un-answered questions... Perhaps Kevin or Charlie can throw out a few facts here.. I for one would like to see them....

Wray... :cool:

[HSC Chris Fly]

Wray,
I have not been to a convention and really don't think I want to go to one. I'm pretty sure I've gotten the geist of what goes on from what I've read here. I realize not everyone is an old carmudeon, but there's enough for me it seems.
Chris

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

You know Wray, I tried looking on the national web site and there is absolutly nothing about money or the budget on there. Even the budget committee chairman doesn't have an email address. I do remember from past conventions I attended that when we were building the next year's budget model being told that what we presented and what was passed by the membership could be changed mid-stream between conventions by the officers if a need arose and they voted for it. And one of the biggest line items then was for national officers travel. And now that they run everything and make all the decisions for us uninformed minions I can only imagine what is going on.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

A whole bunch of talk and displeasure and still not one new idea or solution.

For years we held on to a Board of Directors who would not show up at the annual meeting and fulfill their responsibility and obligation to the association.
We reorganized and now have a managable Board that will meet the requirements of law and the IRS, along with a meeting of delegates to direct and pass along your desires, provided you tell them what they are, and those of us who worked their butt off to get it right have been accused of all sorts of things including breaking the law.

During the past several elections we spent dollars to get everyone a ballot only to have less than 10% returned, to a system that would allow someone running for office to have the power to disallow ballots. We worked on this issue so we would have some accountability and now people are calling us names (see post 35 "Chavez like"). And something that never happened thank God, What about a tie. We would have to spend the money to get over 9000 ballots to it members to only have 800 returned. Talk about a waste of money!

Some have admitted they have not been to nor want to attend an annual meeting, but are up in arms over their vote. If everyone had used their vote and voice wisely over the years, then we would not be having this conversation, would we?

Everyone is complaining about the leadership and what they are not doing, however the Pres is on his 4th consecutive term as a national officer, the Vice is on his third, The Secretary was on his second, The Treasurer is on his fourth. Someone please explain how the old system was working so well, please!

Just who are you complaining about anyway? The National Officers did not pass any resolutions. They wrote 2 of which both were defeated. Some members who believed change was past due submitted an idea, the delegates from the Chapters (your vote) debated and eventually passed the election process. A process that is the most accepted by organizations world wide as the proper way to conduct elections and is the preferred method according to Roberts Rules. We allow everyone who attends convention to vote during elections. Most organizations do not. They only allow the delegates who hold a voting credential. I found one organization where a committee produces a slate of officers, (1 name per office) and that slate is simply ratified at their annual meeting. (talk about no vote)

In the Convention thread I was asked about Members at Large. A veterans organization of which I am a member "in good standing" I am a Member at Large. The By Laws for that organization states "Members at Large are not eligible to hold elective office or vote" and I still fully support what they do for us. We are not going out on any limbs, nor trying to be dicatators, but we need a workable, managable and accountable way to grow and improve our association.

Your voice and your vote will be heard at our annual meeting, only if you express it. If I as a delegate, was instructed by the chapter members how to vote that is how I would vote. That delegate is carrying your vote, only if you tell the delegate what that vote is.

The Budget Standing Committee Chairman is the National Treasurer Tim Trimble. TNTRIMBLE@peoplepc.com The Adhoc Budget Chairman is Tim Sheffler. avtcm@yahoo.com One can also request budget information from the National Office at cgcpoa@aol.com

No let me see if I have this straight? You do not want any management of our budget what-so-ever except for the once a year passing. So we would not be able to have any surplus since we could not move it to our savings accounts. And nothing unforseen that breaks down could be fixed. And low and behold the power company up their rates? I guess we would have to close. Opps can,t close because we have not spent all our money! Funny how the National Officers have always had the power to manage our budget and make the necessary changes to ensure our smooth operation, until we wrote it in the By Laws. The National Officers no longer hold that power, but it requires the Board of Directors to manage. Now everyone is mad that we know what can be done and what to watch for, and we were happy when it was done secretly and was unaccountable for all those years.

I will say that during my term as V P we did everything we could to best use not only our travel budget, but all the association money.

Enough for now
Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

So with that Charlie, what are Mobile's plans for the future of the association?


I do not know what the Mobile Chapter has planned for the future. I do know we will work on new ideas and solutions. Until the membership states otherwise we are not going to sit back and wait.

As for myself, I plan to continue to work on making our organization relevant. It will not happen overnight, and I don't know if it will happen at all, but I will not quit until the membership tells me to sit down and shut-up! As I said before and will continue to say "CPOA is the right organization for the Coast Guard Chief past, present and future."

Charlie

[MKCM Keith Livingstone (Ret.)]

I have done considerable research into the election process. CPOA was the only organization I found who held ballot elections to the entire membership. This was discussed in the convention thread also. Problems with the old way: Of 9000 members, only 800 ballots was counted. The President (who was running for office) disallowed some ballots. Elections are won in CPOA not by what you do but name reconizition alone. No accountability. A change had to be made.


Why were ballots disallowed?????

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Post # 45 (charlie Womack)

"we now have a managable BOD that meets the requirements of the law"

The DC code is the "LAW" and is the only "LAW" that must be obeyed by the CPOA!!!! Charlie please reference the section of the "LAW" that authorizes a " meeting of delegates", where in the "LAW" are the quorum requirements for a "meeting of delegates"???, Where in the "LAW" can the CPOA combine a "meeting of delegates" & members??? what are the quorum requiements for such a meeting???. If a member wants to attend a convention and vote, how does he become accredited??? (note) There is nothing about either a delegates meeting or a members meeting in the CPOA bylaws, Why???

I keep asking these questions of not only charlie but the national officers as well, its strange that no one can answer even one!!!

MCPO Jim Bridges

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Charlie,

What are your immediate and long term goals that you are currently working on toward making the CPOA "relevent"? How will we know when those goals are accomplished? How can the membership help you in your efforts? In your opinion, what does it mean to be "relevent" at the National level?

These are simple questions that "in my opinion" should be discussed at convention and in The Chief in order to keep members informed and updated on progress and relevence of the CPOA at the National level. The simple fact is, in my time in the CPOA I have not seen anything from National that I would consider "relevent". That is not to say that there hasn't been great things accomplished, just that I have not heard of any. Now that I am asked to pay dues but not have a voice unless I pay much more... That is not right in my opinion and the only recourse I have now, since I don't have an effective vote, is to withdraw the dues that I pay until it gets someones attention that IS considered "relevent".

The CPOA does great things at the local level. I have never doubted that. I am still keeping an open mind about National, but until I get a "warm fuzzy" that my contribution is going toward something that is making a difference, I am no longer going to contribute to a dis-organization.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Charlie, I'd say that many of us disagree with the current direction that the national CPOA is headed. That opinion has been voiced by many in numerous forums. So we can agree that a change was needed in the leadership.

But who made the decision that the direction the Mobile chapter chose to go was the best one? You all think it, so like the national officers who are under fire you get defensive when we question the direction you want to take to association. Your way says that anyone who does not attend convention is not worthy enough or informed enough to vote. Who the hell cares what other orgainzations are doing. We are the CPOA and until last convention we allowed all of our members to vote, just like the country we are all swon to protect and defend. It seem pretty un-American to take that right away from me and then expect me to just sit there and take it.

Well I guess I'll propose a resolution to my chapter that we get our own non-profit number and seperate ourselves from national. Sorry but I don't like the direction you are now taking us and when we go it on our own at least we'll have a say not only in the direction we go but also what our money goes for.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, I'd say that many of us disagree with the current direction that the national CPOA is headed. That opinion has been voiced by many in numerous forums. So we can agree that a change was needed in the leadership.

But who made the decision that the direction the Mobile chapter chose to go was the best one? You all think it, so like the national officers who are under fire you get defensive when we question the direction you want to take to association. Your way says that anyone who does not attend convention is not worthy enough or informed enough to vote. Who the hell cares what other orgainzations are doing. We are the CPOA and until last convention we allowed all of our members to vote, just like the country we are all swon to protect and defend. It seem pretty un-American to take that right away from me and then expect me to just sit there and take it.

Well I guess I'll propose a resolution to my chapter that we get our own non-profit number and seperate ourselves from national. Sorry but I don't like the direction you are now taking us and when we go it on our own at least we'll have a say not only in the direction we go but also what our money goes for.

I have never said and am no where arrogant enough to believe any idea I may come up with or support is necessarily the best way. However no other options were presented, and again in all the talk going on in this forum no one has offered another opinion except go back to the old way.

What direction do you think we are heading?

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

What are your immediate and long term goals that you are currently working on toward making the CPOA "relevent"? How will we know when those goals are accomplished? How can the membership help you in your efforts? In your opinion, what does it mean to be "relevent" at the National level?


Jim

I need everyone to know where I stand on "Relevant". This is a new buzz word for me. I retired during TQM.

First, Find out what will make CPOA relevant to the Active Duty and more recently Retired CPO, and find ways to implement their ideas.

Secondly, As you noted, COMMUNICATE. This will be hard for a while. During my term as VP the Pres stated he did not believe in spoon feeding the membership with information. Meaning if the info is available somewhere then the member can look it up themselves.

Third, Become part of the 21st Century.

Fourth, Create a volunteer National Staff. Having been a National Officer and when looking at how other veterans organizations operate, I am convinced one man and a part time secretrary cannot possibly do everything efficiently. Just keeping up with the administrative matters for 10000+ members takes considerable time. Do not get me wrong, Tom and Connie do a great job, but I can see where it can become overwhelming sometimes.

How can the membership help? They have to get off their butts and become proactive with this issue. Most are sitting back waiting on something to happen. Where people are involved things don't just happen. Someone has to make them happen. If you don't like something do something to change it. If nothing else but send me or better still our leadership ideas, that is big start in the right direction.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Why were ballots disallowed?????

Keith,

There were several reasons given. Some Chapters promoted voting. Made copies of the ballots and had them available at meetings and events. Some were put in one envelope and sent to National. The way I understood it copied forms and bulk mailings were not accepted.

Point being, Those ballots were not sent to the committee. As for myself as the VP at the time I was not asked my opinion nor informed this was happening. The Pres was running for office and should have had the Committee sort that out, don't you think?

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

But who made the decision that the direction the Mobile chapter chose to go was the best one? .

Bruce,
"Who made the decision"
(at the Chapter)
I presented the original idea and resolution. It was formulated after much research. (I did not come up with it off the top of my head) It was debated and met some resistance, and passed unamaniously.

What everyone agreed on, was a change had to happen.

(at Convention)
There was very little resistance. Debate really pointed out the strong points, highlighted accountability and answered some questions by the delegates. The vote was not close as I recall. So the delegates, sent by the Chapters, decided.

"that the direction the Mobile chapter chose to go was the best one"
There were no others submitted, so our choice was pass the resolution or leave it as is.

I note that Cape May was represented at convention by a Primary Delegate. May want to discuss with him.

Charlie

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Charlie,

The president's clear violation of the CB&L 4.1.a should have been enough to have him removed for cause or was he fortunate enough to have himself selected as the election committee.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

so like the national officers who are under fire you get defensive when we question the direction you want to take to association. .

I had originally decided to stay away from this, but after some more thought:

If I did not express my opinion on this issue then everyone who reads this thread would be not be completely informed. So far I am the only one to offer a differing opinion so if you see it as defensive, then so be it. I see it as giving the other side an opportunity to present itself to allow everyone a chance to form a much more informed opinion for themselves.

No one has taken away anyone's right to vote. We have simply changed how you go about casting it. Prior to the convention, you get with your delegate and Chapter members and decide how your delegate will vote.

From Websters
delegate: Deputy, Representative

delegate: Entrust to another (delegated his authority)

delegation: 1. act of delegating 2. Persons chosen to represent others.

Are you active in getting your delegate informed on how the Chapter views an issue?

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

The president's clear violation of the CB&L 4.1.a should have been enough to have him removed for cause or was he fortunate enough to have himself selected as the election committee.

Joe,

The problem lies with proof. This all came to light after the fact. And it would be his word against ours as to exactly what happened and or why. I know what he stated at the 2006 convention as part of his "Town Hall Meeting" which to this day was a complete waste of time.

He was reprimanded during this past convention.

Charlie

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim

I need everyone to know where I stand on "Relevant". This is a new buzz word for me. I retired during TQM.

First, Find out what will make CPOA relevant to the Active Duty and more recently Retired CPO, and find ways to implement their ideas.

Secondly, As you noted, COMMUNICATE. This will be hard for a while. During my term as VP the Pres stated he did not believe in spoon feeding the membership with information. Meaning if the info is available somewhere then the member can look it up themselves.

Third, Become part of the 21st Century.

Fourth, Create a volunteer National Staff. Having been a National Officer and when looking at how other veterans organizations operate, I am convinced one man and a part time secretrary cannot possibly do everything efficiently. Just keeping up with the administrative matters for 10000+ members takes considerable time. Do not get me wrong, Tom and Connie do a great job, but I can see where it can become overwhelming sometimes.

How can the membership help? They have to get off their butts and become proactive with this issue. Most are sitting back waiting on something to happen. Where people are involved things don't just happen. Someone has to make them happen. If you don't like something do something to change it. If nothing else but send me or better still our leadership ideas, that is big start in the right direction.

Charlie
1st I'm hurt, charlie answered all post except mine.
Relevant, What would make the CPOA relevant? This past veterans day I watch the ceremony at Arlington National Cemetary, on the stage were representatives from most all service & veterans organizations, each was introduced. I said to myself if the CPOA is represented there I will rejoin, that would have made the CPOA relevant to me, there was no CPOA rep.

Become part of the 21st century, What in the world does that mean?

I hope charlie will expand his thoughts on #4 as I see nothing overwhelming in managing the national office.

Once members get off their butts charlie, what do you want them to do?

MCPO Jim Bridges

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I had originally decided to stay away from this, but after some more thought:

If I did not express my opinion on this issue then everyone who reads this thread would be not be completely informed. So far I am the only one to offer a differing opinion so if you see it as defensive, then so be it. I see it as giving the other side an opportunity to present itself to allow everyone a chance to form a much more informed opinion for themselves.

No one has taken away anyone's right to vote. We have simply changed how you go about casting it. Prior to the convention, you get with your delegate and Chapter members and decide how your delegate will vote.

From Websters
delegate: Deputy, Representative

delegate: Entrust to another (delegated his authority)

delegation: 1. act of delegating 2. Persons chosen to represent others.

Are you active in getting your delegate informed on how the Chapter views an issue?

DC code 29-301.16 Voting. This section of the law clearly spells out who can vote for a member, nowhere does it authorize a delegate. suppose half the chapter wants to vote for candidate "A" and half want to vote for candidate "B", how would the delegate vote?

From Websters
Proxy: A person authorized to act for another
Proxy: A document giving authority to another

The law allows for proxie voting, the proxie is required to have in their pocession at the vote a documents from each member who's proxy they hold. Bottom line charlie, action requiring a members vote must be done by the member or proxy, never by a delegate.

MCPO Jim bridges

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Charlie,

To me, the National CPOA being "relevent" would mean that there is a stated purpose with clear goals. Whether it is to to lobby on behalf of it's members; to partner with FRA and support FRA's lobbying efforts; to pass the word on current issues pending in congress and developing a stand that is articulable; to support the Coast Guard Chief's in the event of critical need (such as when a member's son was in the hospital accross the country and he had to travel and pay lodging expenses...). These things need to be clear to all members and there needs to be some accountability in each quarterly "The Chief" that comes out. Tell us, the members, what National is doing to meet it's goals. If the answer is "we did absolutly nothing in the last 3 months" then so be it. There will be an election to be had and the members (if allowed to) can vote.

"Spoon feeding" the membership is EXACTLY what the CPOA needs. That should be the #1 purpose of "The Chief". Tell the members what is going on and how their resources are being allocated. If the members have to go around digging up the info, that tends to make me believe that there may be something to hide. The president needs to quit playing hide and go seek with important information that should be at the forefront for all to see.

The budget should be published as well. 10,000 members should bring in a substantial amount of money. I would like to see where it is going. I don't need to know dollar for dollar, but I would like to see a pie chart at least showing what % is going to what purpose. I want my dues to go where I believe it is doing the most good. You yourself said that last years convention with the "Town Hall" was a complete waste of time. Yeah, that makes me feel real good about how my dues was spent.

I agree with Jim Bridges, I would like to know what bringing the CPOA into the 21st Century means. What I am asking for here are specifics. Not broad stroke talking points. National should be just that. There should be something that is being accomplished or efforts being made on behalf of the CPOA on a National level. If you want the CPO Corps to get off their ass and help, then tell us what you need from us. Specifically. I believe that National needs to be involved in lobbying efforts on behalf of its stated mission (whatever that may be). Members could and should contact their respective members of Congress and lobby on an individual basis. We STILL have a vote that counts for our Congressmen.

What I am offering here are specific suggestions for National. I believe that they will make National "relevent". At least in my opinion. They will provide specifics that each chapter can "sell" to new Chief's and help to move the CPOA forward in a productive manner.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I've attached a pie chart I worked on today. I had the same question. Let me know what you think.
MCPO Jim Bridges

[CMC Isherwood]

Quitting AIN’T the answer! If you quit, you have NO say, if you have NO say, there will be NO change. WE NEED CHANGE!

CHARLIE FOR PRESIDENT IN 2009

I have been chuckling reading the uproar regarding convention voting. Only 800 out of the 9000 mailed ballots were returned and counted. Did those complaining now, bother to vote in the past? If you didn’t vote you can’t bitch!

I fully supported the vote at national convention resolution for 3 very basic reasons
1) 800/9000 returned ballots is a total waste of time, effort and funds.
2) Much larger and more productive organizations conduct their elections in this manner. Good enough for them, good enough for me.
3) Sadly, word of national’s activities hardly makes it past the chapter presidents. How many convention attendance reports were distributed by the delegates to the membership that they represented? The word that does get out via The Chief is spun through the National President’s bully pulpit and reflects very little of reality, it’s more of a revisionist’s version. When elections are held at the convention, there will be accountability of the national officers, produce or you’re out!

Take a moment of introspection; Do you personally know anything about what the national officers do or are suppose to do? Have you read the CPOA By-Laws and OPSMAN? Do you see and read the CPOA monthly mail outs? Is this website your only source of CPOA info? And finally, do you think that those who have been taking the time, making the effort and in MANY cases paying their own way to attend the national convention each year don’t have the CPOA’s best interest in mind?

I bring these things up not to patronize or belittle but to highlight the fact that the vast majority of members have a chapter level knowledge of the CPOA. This is a good thing, because currently that is the only place where the CPOA is functioning and productive. And the minority of members that attend convention tend to be in the weeds of the inner workings of the CPOA at the national level. This is a good thing, because they can help properly guide the direction of the organization for the greater good of the membership.

Since I brought up “Relevant” and “21st century” here is what they mean to me;
• Interviews/Editorials/Columns from AD Chiefs in senior positions
• What’s happening around the CG
• Retiree interviews of “lessons learned”, “how it really happened”, or just plain ole sea stories.
• HQ’s Program Managers perspectives
• Legislative affairs information
• Report of activities (volunteer hours/funds raised/activities held etc..) from the chapters in addition to the now posted stories
• National Calendar of events
• Color magazine
• Magazine available electronically
• Emailed national information, monthly mail outs should be directly available to EVERY mbr that wants it electronically.
• Multi level user membership data base (each mbr has access and the ability to update most of their info, each chapter membership chair has access and the ability to update most of the info for all of the mbrs in their chapter, the national membership chair has access and the ability to update most of the info for all of the mbrs in the CPOA, the executive director has total access to the data base)

What are your ideas?

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Those are interesting numbers Jim. I thought the only paid employee was a part time secretary? If that is the case and that is the amount that indidivual is paid... Will that position be open in 2-1/2 years?
What are the "programs" that CPOA only spends 3% of it's budget on?
Do those figures represent total income (including magazine ads) or dues only?
How much of the magazine is paid for though advertisements?

Kevin, I don't think a great magazine and database will make the CPOA relevent on a National level. Where are the efforts to partner with other military lobbys? Where are the PR efforts to shed some light on the CPOA? With a huge portion of the budget spent on employees, where is the bang for the buck?

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Sorry for the double post, but my editing time has ended. Actually, I am not really sorry, it is just an expression.

Quitting is such a harsh word. I am still participating at the local level. I have just chosen to excersize my right to put my money toward other ventures that I feel are more productive. I have offered all kinds of ways to attract my dues back, but I am just one person. It is time to wait and see what happens now. It seems that all National really wants is my dues anyway. I am more than happy to share my opinion with anyone that want's to listen to it and even with those that don't. I am still entitled to that.

I understand Bruce's frustration and he is doing something about it as well. I am not sure that his way is the best way to do it either, but time will tell. The infrastructure is in place at the National level, the system is just broke very badly. It needs a complete overhaul in my opinion. It seems to me that it has become a "club" for many and they have no focus on where they are steering this association. Maybe it will be better to leave it and start fresh as Bruce is advocating. Maybe what is there can be fixed. It will be interesting to see where the next couple years takes the CPOA.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

There were several reasons given. Some Chapters promoted voting. Made copies of the ballots and had them available at meetings and events. Some were put in one envelope and sent to National. The way I understood it copied forms and bulk mailings were not accepted.

Point being, Those ballots were not sent to the committee. As for myself as the VP at the time I was not asked my opinion nor informed this was happening. The Pres was running for office and should have had the Committee sort that out, don't you think?

Charlie, clearly xeroxed ballots should not be counted. I would agree with the President on that one. For years I have received my ballot in the mail, with a number on it. I get one vote, and only one vote. Only those that are dues paying National Members should be allowed to cast their vote.

I find the participation level of the voting terrible. To me it signifies the lack of concern about the organization. I think the CPOA's future is clearly written on the wall. I am very disappointed and would have never, in my wildest dreams expected the CPO's of the future to let this organization die such a slow death.

Kevin has the numbers, or he can get them.. I would bet the number of "active duty" chiefs has been declining for years. Once again has hit the nail on the head stating "Quitting AIN’T the answer! If you quit, you have NO say, if you have NO say, there will be NO change. WE NEED CHANGE!" Unfortunately many appear to be taking the "easy way out".. Perhaps more of the "WIIFM" mentality.

I look forward to attending a convention in the Orlando or Florida area in the near future.

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Those are interesting numbers Jim. I thought the only paid employee was a part time secretary? If that is the case and that is the amount that indidivual is paid... Will that position be open in 2-1/2 years?
What are the "programs" that CPOA only spends 3% of it's budget on?
Do those figures represent total income (including magazine ads) or dues only?
How much of the magazine is paid for though advertisements?

Kevin, I don't think a great magazine and database will make the CPOA relevent on a National level. Where are the efforts to partner with other military lobbys? Where are the PR efforts to shed some light on the CPOA? With a huge portion of the budget spent on employees, where is the bang for the buck?

Good morning Jim

The CPOA has two (2) employee's, executive director & part time secretary.The budget ammount for the secretary is $27,000, The rest is a total of Salary, retirement account , FICA, local travel, convention travel, etc. for the ED.

$5,500 is recieved from advertising

Jim, the budget is posted for down loading, go to convention minutes and click on misc.

Jim

[BMCM Deane Smith]

First, let me say that have I very limited experience with the National level of the CPOA. I've attended only one convention and it was an eye-opener.

To me, it doesn't seem like much gets done between conventions. I sat on a committee that recommended several of these ideas that Kevin mention (i.e. electronic mailings, better software for publishing the magazine, etc) and nothing was ever followed through with. It seems this happens a lot. Many things are brought year after year without moving forward. My committee also recommended a review/audit of the ED to see if there were more efficient ways he could be doing his job. I don't think this was ever done. If it were done, I think many changes would be recommended.

Things need to be done between conventions. We need National Officers and an ED that get things done for us. We need some modernization in how we conduct business between the meetings and in our publications/correspondence. It all starts with the ED, that position needs some upgrading in terms of how we do what we do. As Kevin said, we need to move into the 21st century.

Jim...the pie chart is interesting. I seem to recall that we also have at least one part-time employee that helps the ED, so that salary should include that also. That does seem high though.

Kevin...alll of your ideas are great and this is the direction we should be heading in. I think that might take a major overhaul, is our current ED capable of that?

Wray...this isn't an active -vs- retired issue...it's a CHIEF issue.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Deane, you are correct... it is a Chief issue... The reason I keep harping on the "Active duty" is because they are closest to this issue, do you not agree? Once many active duty retire. they live in areas, as I do, where there is no CPOA within 50-100 miles... not quite true for the active duty side of the house....

In some areas, such as Yorktown, I'm sure the retired are doing quite a bit for the organization. Let's not forget, the President of the CPOA is a retired member.

Wray.. :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

With a huge portion of the budget spent on employees, where is the bang for the buck?

Jim,

43% salary is probably on the low side. I just looked at the expenses for a bar and their employees [and employer share of employee wage related expense] was 60%. 60% is the generally acceptable range.

What I questioned was the 19% for the Convention and more importantly, the 13% travel and per diem.

There are plenty of ways to "upgrade" those BOD meetings, one is to have them online. GoToMeeting (https://www1.gotomeeting.com/en_US/pre/pricing.tmpl) offers unlimited web conferencing very inexpensively [under $600 per year]. I know it will prevent those National Officers from visiting different parts of the country, but that would reduce that $34k expense to allow each National Officer to do some face time with each chapter at a local chapter meeting.

What I find humorous is the 1% [$2k] spent on publications, which is the primary delivery vehicle for information. Yes, I think that can be done electronically, in the form of a pdf at the website. I also believe it should be an option for those Chief's that have computers and those that don't, well, they can have it delivered.

I think we need an online chapter for those MALs [this website would be the logical choice and it would be interesting seeing RR's applied.] Right now, that is the largest group without representation. Hell, every member that doesn't attend the convention is without representation. Taxiation without representation comes to mind. Yes, your annual dues is taxiation.

800 of 9000 votes! How many votes were thrown out? How many of those were from members in good standing? How many were duplicate? Why weren't the ballots forwarded to the election committee as per the current bylaws? Sounds like Shipp did what Al Gore couldn't do in FL.

Alot of elections are run on name recognition. Charlie's name is out here and with each expressed view, he's liable to gardner enough votes in 2009, only if he rallies enough to attend the convention.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, clearly xeroxed ballots should not be counted. I would agree with the President on that one. For years I have received my ballot in the mail, with a number on it. I get one vote, and only one vote. Only those that are dues paying National Members should be allowed to cast their vote.

I guess I was not clear. If I were Pres and running for re-election I would stay so far clear of any ballot issues it would not be funny. We appoint a committee for this function and they should have been the deciding body. If they could authenticate fine! If not fine! But the right people would have made the decision

Again, this was done on his own, right or wrong, so that makes me wonder what other decisions concerning the election was made that no one knows about. PERCEPTION

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim M,
An electronic color magazine is the perfect vehicle to deliver the desired membership services. I am told that the ED regularly attends lobbyist meetings on the hill. Yet, we NEVER see any product from those efforts heck, if someone knew how to "cut and paste" they could probably go to the FRA website and publish their notes. PR stuff could be produced timely and viewable; I get frustrated every qtr trying to figure out black and white, blurred faces in the crowd. I will not, nor can I argue about the "bang for the buck" comment. If you add up all the salary stuff for just one employee, you will see that it comes to more than $80K.

Wray,
Nothing in the By-laws, the OPSMAN or on the ballots said that photo copies of the ballots or bulk mailing was not allowed. I know of at least one Chapter that made copies of the ballots available at their regular meetings and collected the individual member filled out ballots and sent them in one envelope. What's wrong with that?

Deane,
I remember your first convention very well. Your look of amazement at how simple things can't get done and your desire to make a difference was not much different from other hotshot first timers. Sadly, that was not the first time that I had raised those issues on the floor only to have them ignored between conventions. Looking through my reports as National Membership chair, I brought those issues up for 5 consecutive years. To address this, at the last two conventions, the President unilaterally changed the convention format so that standing committee reports were not presented on the floor. Oh yeah, for years there used to be an ED review committee, the current national president did away with that too. And....you already know the answer to your question.

At this past convention, the membership in attendance had an opportunity to make significant change during TWO executive sessions. Those present, chose the non-confrontational route so we shall remain status quo until 2009.

CHARLIE FOR PRESIDENT IN 2009

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings All,

By the way, I hope everyone had an enjoyable Thanksgiving!

Jim B: I have answered your questions countless times. I never say what you want to hear, so instead of telling people I have answered, but you think I am dead wrong, you tend to let people believe I have never answered your questions. Go back through the Convention Post and the years of email we sent each other for your answer.

I have never seen any organization including the Chapter level that allows proxy voting during elections. Got some facts? If so I will look into it.

I agree with Jim Madsen and Kevin Isherwood completely
21st Century: There are also some basic needs as well. 1. Go to www.themilitarycoalition.org click on members and then visit some websites. Then go visit ours. We do not offer our publications online. You cannot join online. You cannot pay your dues online. 2. THE CHIEF is all done by hand. As far as I know you still cannot send in photo's via email. The B O D of yester-year authorized the purchase of Desk top Publishing and at last report I do not believe anything has been done. This would save countless hours, be more user friendly, and allow for electronic viewing. 3. An up to date website. Thank you Joe for your efforts, and thanks for making it free, but I believe it falls far short for a National Organization. (see 1) 4. Electronic Newsletters. I get them all the time from other organizations, so why can't our organization keep us informed. I suggested an online store with all proceeds to go to CCCAF. The President replied he failed to see any benefit to the organization, and that was the end of that. (I thought building our College Fund would be beneficial)

Volunteer Staff: Jim B. I will inquire to see if we participated in any Veterans Day activities in D C. This is what I am talking about. Having people in place to do things just as this. Our Pres is in Miami. Working. Probably unaware of the activities in D.C. Our webmaster is in Las Vegas sharing his talents working for the National Office for free. How about a publisher? Someone to just to keep up with Legislative issues. etc.

Our Executive Director works 6 and sometimes 7 days a week. Anytime one of the committees we are on with TMC calls he has to go. (time on capital hill is a premium) He is our publisher. The guy who goes and runs every errand required to operate an office. Continually seeks better and new benefits. Keeps up with membership. Everything any Chapter needs, he does it. Jim you are correct, there is nothing overwhelming about running the office, it is all the other things most people do not know or think about. He currently works for a dicatator, that alone should get him Special Assignment Duty Pay! lol I saw a resolution concerning a pay raise a Executive Secretary of another Veterans Organization, that has a complete staff, and it was in 6 figures. We are getting a bargain.

Jim M. May I share your post concerning being relevant with the Board of Directors. What Chapter was you in so I can get it to the right Regional Advisor.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Nothing in the By-laws, the OPSMAN or on the ballots said that photo copies of the ballots or bulk mailing was not allowed. I know of at least one Chapter that made copies of the ballots available at their regular meetings and collected the individual member filled out ballots and sent them in one envelope. What's wrong with that?

Kevin, the only thing that comes to mind with "what's wrong with that" is the fact that any or several members could stuff the ballot box with more than one vote.. Most elections I have been around only authorize you to have one vote. Doesn't that make sense to you?

I was thinking it was the National elections, but perhaps it was the local chapter elections, such as the Balto Chapter or Yorktown Chapter. The ballots were mailed to you, and they were numbered to insure you only got one vote...


Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Greetings All,

By the way, I hope everyone had an enjoyable Thanksgiving!

Jim B: I have answered your questions countless times. I never say what you want to hear, so instead of telling people I have answered, but you think I am dead wrong, you tend to let people believe I have never answered your questions. Go back through the Convention Post and the years of email we sent each other for your answer.

I have never seen any organization including the Chapter level that allows proxy voting during elections. Got some facts? If so I will look into it.

I agree with Jim Madsen and Kevin Isherwood completely
21st Century: There are also some basic needs as well. 1. Go to www.themilitarycoalition.org click on members and then visit some websites. Then go visit ours. We do not offer our publications online. You cannot join online. You cannot pay your dues online. 2. THE CHIEF is all done by hand. As far as I know you still cannot send in photo's via email. The B O D of yester-year authorized the purchase of Desk top Publishing and at last report I do not believe anything has been done. This would save countless hours, be more user friendly, and allow for electronic viewing. 3. An up to date website. Thank you Joe for your efforts, and thanks for making it free, but I believe it falls far short for a National Organization. (see 1) 4. Electronic Newsletters. I get them all the time from other organizations, so why can't our organization keep us informed. I suggested an online store with all proceeds to go to CCCAF. The President replied he failed to see any benefit to the organization, and that was the end of that. (I thought building our College Fund would be beneficial)

Volunteer Staff: Jim B. I will inquire to see if we participated in any Veterans Day activities in D C. This is what I am talking about. Having people in place to do things just as this. Our Pres is in Miami. Working. Probably unaware of the activities in D.C. Our webmaster is in Las Vegas sharing his talents working for the National Office for free. How about a publisher? Someone to just to keep up with Legislative issues. etc.

Our Executive Director works 6 and sometimes 7 days a week. Anytime one of the committees we are on with TMC calls he has to go. (time on capital hill is a premium) He is our publisher. The guy who goes and runs every errand required to operate an office. Continually seeks better and new benefits. Keeps up with membership. Everything any Chapter needs, he does it. Jim you are correct, there is nothing overwhelming about running the office, it is all the other things most people do not know or think about. He currently works for a dicatator, that alone should get him Special Assignment Duty Pay! lol I saw a resolution concerning a pay raise a Executive Secretary of another Veterans Organization, that has a complete staff, and it was in 6 figures. We are getting a bargain.

Jim M. May I share your post concerning being relevant with the Board of Directors. What Chapter was you in so I can get it to the right Regional Advisor.

Charlie
Sorry Charlie, but you did not answer my question, I ask that you reference the section of the law dealing with delegate meetings, combining delegate & members votes, etc.

Jim

[CMC Isherwood]

Wray,
We are not sophisticated enough to have individually # ballots. However, the ballots that we do have require you to enter your membership #, the last 4 of your SSN# and your signature.

With the above requirements, it would be pretty easy to check off the membership #s of the whopping 800 returned ballots to ensure that no one voted twice. I truly doubt that anyone would waste their time to fraudulently stuff ballots, it's just not that important.

The National Officers and the ED should not be in the ballot process anywhere. The independent election committee is formed to prevent tampering or even the perception of such. And Charlie has plenty of upport from those that attend.

Anyone that has attended can clearly see that Charlie is working his butt off for the greater good of the CPOA and deserves to be PRESIDENT IN 2009

Joe,
Linda Reid tried to run the Long Range Planning committee via electronic mtg rooms. It was free to and visionary for the CPOA, unfortunately, it was a bridge too far into the present for our elected leaders. Therefore, it died on the vine. Linda had/has great strategic insight for the long view and tried to revolutionize our way of doing business, that too may have been a bridge too far.

Charlie,
No one doubts that the ED works 7 days a week. If the office would jump to the 21st century 90% of the stuff that takes up 100% of the time could be automatically run and distributed electronically.

Does anyone know how much the postage on an email costs? How about the cost of a returned email?* Certainly can't say the same for snail mail! Hmmmm.... that right there seems like enough incentive to evolve!!!!

My last crack at the 1960s B&W magazine.* Have you seen the CWOA newsletter? It's in color and looks pretty darn good, why can't we get there?!!

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Kevin, Please

"The minority of members that attend conventions tend to be in the weeds of the inner workings of the CPOA at the national level, this is a good thing, because they help "PROPERLY" guide the direction of the organization for the greater good of the membership". Give me a break, PROPERLY GUIDE, nothing done recently has been proper, just one of many examples.

National Officers Res. #2 Reorganization of the BOD

1.Bylaws state that all changes to the bylaws be approved by the membership, that means the entire membership!!!

2. This resolution was voted on during a BOD meeting, there were 22 delegates in their chairs, common sense says there should have been 22 votes total. There were 36 votes cast, who cast the other 14 votes? would it have passed otherwise without these 14 improper votes? Was this a vote of the membership as required by the bylaws? NO

When the lawyer (by letter) told Shipp there could not be 2 BOD's, Shipp made the decision on his own that the new 3 member BOD would be the one used by the CPOA because they had been properly elected by the membership, what a joke!!!!

If these things were proper, please tell us what would be improper, Shipp, Charlie & you seem to think that we all just fell off a turnip truck and can't read, and yes I've read the bylaws, its a worthless rag that like the DC code is not complied with.

Jim

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Charlie,
This discussion board is open to the public for viewing. Feel free to share my opinions with anyone you like. Contrary to perception, I am not trying to undermine the CPOA, but rather make my point known that it is heading into "shoalwater" and will soon go bump in the night. Since I no longer have a vote, my hands are pretty much tied as to anything I can do. I am currently a MAL since I am 200 miles from the nearest chapter. I don't think there is a chapter in Petersburg, AK so who knows when I will be within commuting distance of one.

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim...did you say something? I could swear that you took your ball and quit the CPOA quite some time ago.

As soon as you are a member in good standing, I would be happy to discuss the inner workings of the CPOA with you.

BMCM Mark Allen can help you get set up if you are interested in joining.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Wray,
We are not sophisticated enough to have individually # ballots. However, the ballots that we do have require you to enter your membership #, the last 4 of your SSN# and your signature.

Ballot numbering is not sophisticated... it is just good common sense.... I guess it must have been Balto or RTC that put a numbered sticker on the ballot to ensure only one per person.....

With the above requirements, it would be pretty easy to check off the membership #s of the whopping 800 returned ballots to ensure that no one voted twice. I truly doubt that anyone would waste their time to fraudulently stuff ballots, it's just not that important.

I guess you may be correct... a waste of time, and definately not that important.

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Mass mailings by post card isn't too expensive ... 26 cents each. Actually the price would be 67 cents per ballot. 41 cents for the envelope that the ballot is stuffed in that is sent to the member and 26 cents for the return of the ballot.

Numbered ballots are within the realm of reality.

The reality check is ... the membership database isn't correct, as expressed by a few here. Till that gets corrected, membership voting would be sketchy at best.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim...did you say something? I could swear that you took your ball and quit the CPOA quite some time ago.

As soon as you are a member in good standing, I would be happy to discuss the inner workings of the CPOA with you.

BMCM Mark Allen can help you get set up if you are interested in joining.

If I thought you knew anything about the "Inner Working" of the CPOA I would send in my $24.00, until then I will keep trying to make it the association it use to be, when the CPOA is again in compliance with the law & bylaws I will rejoin. At the convention in St. Louis you had a chance to help bring about needed change, but you "wimped" out

Jim

PS: No need to respond

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Mass mailings by post card isn't too expensive ... 26 cents each. Actually the price would be 67 cents per ballot. 41 cents for the envelope that the ballot is stuffed in that is sent to the member and 26 cents for the return of the ballot.

Joe, there are several ways this could be done for very little cost... Ballots could be inserted in "The Chief" magazine... If, for some reason this could not be done, I'm sure post card type ballots could be mailed out... they would not need to be in an envalope. Non profit, bulk rates are very cheap.

Numbered ballots are within the realm of reality.

Not only in the realm of reality, but usually the norm for reality..

The reality check is ... the membership database isn't correct, as expressed by a few here. Till that gets corrected, membership voting would be sketchy at best.

BINGO! The question is.. does anyone REALLY want it to reflect the correct numbers?

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Wray,

It's amazing that people can produce an online poll where your vote is counted once.

Granted you can get around that by changing IP addresses, but in an election, you can have it tied to your name and membership number as the login to vote.

The downside is if the results are immediatedly avalable, someone can rally the troops to influence the outcome, so I wouldn't allow the immediate results.

The election committee could compare the login information.

I would not restrict IP addresses, as some would vote from government machines or library machines and the chance of the same IP being recorded is pretty good. I would record the IP address, as it can be tracked back to the local area (for challenges to the results).

All of that is a pipe dream because of the GIGO rule ... Garbage In = Garbage Out. The membership database is GIGO.

I hope Charlie produces a video when he runs for President in 2009. Hell, I'll put it on my website and provide a link for all to viewe. I'll do the same for any candidate. Maybe Dennis can provide a forum where the candidates can answer questions from their "consitituents", a virtual town hall so to speak. With today's technology, there is no reason for those running for office to rely on that little bio that was normally sent out. There can and should be direct contact with the voters.

As the constituents become more computer literate, they will gravitate to those who keep them in the loop. That is something Vince did very well with the MCPO CG's site.

Is Kevin the campaign manager for Charlie? :D

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Joe,
Personally, I'm not in favor of an "on line" ballot... as you say there are ways people, if they wanted to, could cast more than one vote.. Would they? probably not... Hell you can hardly get them to vote the way things are...

Once again, in my opinion, post cards used with your member number on it would be the way to go... after all, I believe only dues paying members are supposed to vote.

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

No one has taken away anyone's right to vote. We have simply changed how you go about casting it. Prior to the convention, you get with your delegate and Chapter members and decide how your delegate will vote.

But the one delegate that attends from my chapter only gets one vote, which represents our 300 plus members. And the Mobile chapter for example which in the past sends numerous delegates gets that number of votes to represent its 300 plus members. Like I stated earlier, the chapter that puts the most delegates on the floor at convention will be driving the CPOA.

And yes our chapter could send more than one delegate, but our current practice is that the chapter pays to send ours. So if send mutiple ones, that's $1700 (using this years cost) for each that we can't use helping out the local community or members.


Everyone is complaining about the leadership and what they are not doing, however the Pres is on his 4th consecutive term as a national officer, the Vice is on his third, The Secretary was on his second, The Treasurer is on his fourth. Someone please explain how the old system was working so well, please!

So who is next up then? Being as there is a limited number that attend convention I can only assume that our next officers are coming from those members. Because realistically you will not get elected if you are not there. Or is this whole voting thing a ploy to get more people to attend convention?

And maybe this is a WIIFM issue to a point. Just what does national want from it's members? Are our annual dues enough? If not what else? I thought that if we were all good little Chiefs and worked hard in our chapters so that they did great things that was enough. But it doesn't appear so. The real strength of the CPOA is in what the chapters are doing. So what is national doing to support them? I see and hear alot about all the great "global" things the NOs and ED do for the association. But where is something we can hand our hat on as a victory from their efforts for us? And no Kevin I'm not quitting, but I am looking to refocus my efforts with a group of Chiefs and continue to do the right thing without having to support anyone I don;t choose to. That's my vote, if I still had one for free.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

OK. We've heard all of the complaints, so where do we go from here? How do we get this back on course? Can we? What are the expectations?

Let's come up with some solutions. Is new blood the answer? Who will step up? Will new blood even get voted in if the mainstay don't really know who they are?

What do we need to do to correct this? Standing by for solutions...

[CMC Isherwood]

Wray,
Ballots do come in the magazine, I can't remember if they had a bulk mailing stamp for return though. Needless to say, for those desiring to vote, it could not have been made much easier for them. The ballot returns (800/9000) show that not many were/are interested in voting.

By the way, this low ballot return was not new, it has been steadily declining for the last several elections.

I for one, would like to know the true # for CPOA membership. Anyone got any ideas on how we can figure that out?

Was that you Jim...? Hmmmm....I did not agree with you then, and now that you QUIT it really does not matter.