Straight from the source.......

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ready to answer questions straight from the school.......
Ian, I'm going to say no to the "Cats and Hats" question because I have no idea what you're talking about.

We were told that we could be the first class in the last three years to not send someone home for exceeed their MAW. I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Also told that they figured each seat cost over 6K, so we really can't afford to be leaving any open.

Did the orientation, and it's funny that the issues people bring up effect all rates, all areas of the service, and are the same in the CG, Air Force, and with our international student. And I'll bet they hear the same things every class.

Day one, and it's already very different from what I expected.

[ASTC Ronny German]

Have a good time.....I did!

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,

Take note of what you already already have knowledge of vs what is being taught. I'm curious if the senior E8/9's should warrant a curriculum shift.

Thanks....John

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

John, from what I'm seeing the things that will being discussed are universal for leadership and relationshps. The way it's being presented is more of a way to examine your self in all aspects of your life. I don't think anything is paygrade specific. If anything it would be age resticted, like you can't teach an old dog........... But we have some pretty old dogs teaching it. And they are able to sell it, because it is something that has/is working for them, and they believe in it. They also say that the cirriculm has changed with the need.

Also the Air Force has changed its ribbon policy,...... it's now all or none. And my rack is quite the topic of conversation. 26 that I've "earned" by being at the right place............

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Master Chief, do you have to go with the Air Force Standard on that one? I'd just stick with the top3/choice of 9/all option if I were you.

Good luck, and enjoy!!!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jerald, you lost me.......... I'm saying the Air Force is now all or nothing. I will always go with the CG standard, and I will always wear all of them. As long as they keep giving them to me, I'll keep wearing them. And I would never wear my top three, because the three that mean the most to me are My LOC, the Sea Service, and Good Conduct.

Also the Air Force stopped giving Good Conduct.

And we lost three after weigh ins. The strange thing is that I wouldn't have thought that it was the three that it was. Make sure the you're well within the standard before you make the trip. I think getting the orders ealier will help with that.

And as we talked about this earlier, they do try and over book the seats to allow for those losses........

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I'm confused as to how Chiefs are showing up overweight? I assume that their commands are not weighing them prior to going?

[ASTC Ronny German]

It's October...........I thought everyone in the Coast Guard gets weighed this month? Then why the suprise when they weighed in at the academy? Could it be that units are not doing it correctly?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'd go with the not doing it correctly. The tools that they use here are all approved for use, and the people are trained to use them. And again, there's no ..... well you're close, so we're going to let it slide, like you might get at the unit.
If you're over by five pounds or less, or 1% over on body fat, you're allowed to stay and lose the weight during the course. More than that and you're heading home. Then you can apply for the next available class.

[OSC Brian K. Brandon]

I'm here at the Academy with Stu, and I'll have to second him on the unit's most likely not doing weigh-ins correctly. I usually have to get measured, and today was no diffferent for me. I've had my wife measure me following COMDT instruction, and every time she gets a different measure than my unit's YN1. It definately depends on WHO is doing the measuring. As a side note, my wife always measures me with a higher BF percentage than my unit's YN1.

I was never told what my percentage was today, but it would be interesting to compare the Academy's measurements to what my unit's YN1 measures.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The other thing that was talked about on another thread with that scale that uses the electronic pulse............... that thing is way off. And they even tell you not to rely on it because it depends on a variety of factors including how hydrated you are. But one of our classmates registered at 33% on the scale..... and laughed it off. He said that he always tapes in a 20 %. They take everyone who exceeds their MAW in another room to tape them, he came out and said ....20%.
Everyone that I talked to here says that they went for a medical screening before they came here. Everyone was weighed. I have to go with the units aren't doing it right. And if they think that they're doing anyone a favor by giving someone a little.......... they're not. Five pounds or 1%, or you're sent back home. Here's hoping the January Class is the first in three years........

[BMC John Phillips III]

When I went the scale said I was carrying 40 lbs of fat (figured out by % and actual weight), which for me is totally not possible. Anyway, I was under the % both ways.

I think one possible problem is that the YN's are being told to go up with neck size and down with waste. I say let's just go with actual size, no rounding. But that's just me.

Brian, welcome to the board and good luck at the academy.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Enclosure 5 of 1020.8E makes it pretty clear to me on the procedures!

What does the YN/Unit gain if you let someone slide on this that later on has a heart attack, stroke or other health issue that could have been taken care of with proper weight management?




The Coast Guard will follow these Percent Body Fat Measurement Procedures as standard methodology to determine if a member’s percent body fat exceeds the screening standards for maximum allowable weight. Commands must follow these guidelines and procedures carefully when measuring members.

1. For men, determine neck and waist circumferences in accordance with sub-paragraphs A through E below. Determine body fat percentage by comparing the neck and waist circumference measurements with Chart A.

a. Use a standard tape measure, NON-ELASTIC (metal, cloth, or fiberglass). Apply it to body landmarks with sufficient tension to keep it in place without indenting the skin surface. Record measurements to the nearest half-inch. All measurements will be taken on bare skin.

b. Measure height without shoes to nearest half-inch. Instruct members to stand with feet together, flat on the deck, take a deep breath and stretch tall.

c. Measure the neck circumference at a point just below the larynx (Adam's apple) and perpendicular to the neck’s long axis. Member should look straight ahead during measurement, with shoulders down (not hunched). Round neck measurements up and record to nearest half-inch (i.e., round 16 1/4 to 16 1/2 inches).

d. Measure the abdominal circumference at the navel, level to the deck. Arms are at the sides. Take measurement at the end of member's normal, relaxed exhalation. Round abdominal measurement down and record to nearest half-inch (i.e., round 34 3/4 to 34 1/2 inches).

e. Determine percent body fat by subtracting the neck measurement from the abdominal measurement and comparing this value against the height measurement from Chart A.

[ASTC Ronny German]

I'd go with the not doing it correctly. The tools that they use here are all approved for use, and the people are trained to use them. And again, there's no ..... well you're close, so we're going to let it slide, like you might get at the unit.

Exactly my point. Units are not sticking to the standards. It's either you ARE within the maximum allowable weight standards or NOT. If the member is not within the standards they shouldn't be allowed to slide.

The other thing that was talked about on another thread with that scale that uses the electronic pulse............... that thing is way off. And they even tell you not to rely on it because it depends on a variety of factors including how hydrated you are.

These scales are a good tool over the long term, meaning if you use it once a week over several months, you can tell if your body fat has changed.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Everyone in the marching band is out of step except for the CPOA? That is what it sounds like to me.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I wouldn't say everyone, only the units that keep sending people who don't meet the standards. We have people that are dancing that line. They knew it before they came and they knew it before they weighed in here. They weren't worried because they knew their units were doing things the right way.
And I have to believe that some people knew that they were getting a break from who taped them at their unit. But no one here is going to give anyone a break. The teach the standard, and they enforce the standard.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Stu,
is there a trend with unit types for those that exceeded? I am just curoius iof the Academy tracks to see if they get repeat non-complyers(that is not a word huh?) from the same unit oir unit types.

Burt

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Burt, I asked and was told no, they come from all over the country.

Freddie I'm answering your comments from another thread. The CG is going to start holding HQ accountable. Once it gets to the point of cutting orders people will be going. If their unit can't afford to lose them, and again we had sitting OinCs of cutter go after 9/11, those units will have to request the person be released from the orders.

We have several people in my class that are planning on retiring in the next two years, some said next year. You can say no, once you're retired. Until that time you need to live up to the requirements set down for you.

Let's go selfish. You're getting out in two years....... take the CG for everything that you can. This course will give you 6 upper credits and 3 lower credits towards your degree. There is a staff on call to assist you in finishing that degree. They will give you the bullets to sell yourself when you create your resume. You can show your next employer how you've already finished all of the training that they're looking for. They'll give you the opportunity to improve your personal life. They'll give you the tools to improve all of your personal relationships. They'll give you the tools......... Use them where you want.

And don't worry about the physical aspects of the academy. I'm old and my bones are brittle. The only one pushing me to do anything here was me. The staff was constantly warning us about not letting our twenty year old ego over ride your forty year old body. None of the physical standards are graded. They only want to show you ways to improve yourself. That somehow seems to be a re-occuring theme around here.

It's your Academy. It's your opportunity. You'll make money while you're here. You want to fight it, fight it. But think for one minute about what you're really fighting for.

Knock knock..... who's there ?...... opportunity .........No one's Home, go away....

[OSC Brian K. Brandon]

Stu is once again right on the money here. I'm not in the greatest shape, but I am still completing all the physical parts of the Academy. My purpose here is to improve myself and become a better Chief. Part of that improvement is physical fitness and overall health. The Academy is here to give me the tools for self-improvement.

JP III: Thanks for the welcome. I've been "lurking" here for quite some time, I feel as if I've gotten to know some of the more vocal members already! It was good to finally meet Stu and put a face to a name I have seen on this board a lot.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Stu,

Has an open invitation been given to your Academy class? As active as you are on the boards, I would think so.

But I'd ask you to consider taking it a step further and giving the site to the Chief of the school. Is it still MCPO Niece? Perhaps they could give out the site to each class as a resource?

Just a thought!

Hope you really enjoy your school! Make sure you take some time out to go into SF and get yourself a sourdough bowl of chowder at the pier! Nothin better!

v/r

[MSTC F Bizzell]

Master Chief,


The CPOA had me at hello. :) I am definately going to attend. I just see some merit in both sides of the arguement.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Interesting post Stu. I think I will have to go back and look in the archives. If I recall, you must have had quite the epiphany there at the CPOA.

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

If you're over by five pounds or less, or 1% over on body fat, you're allowed to stay and lose the weight during the course. More than that and you're heading home.

Stu,
The way I read your post is if you are over weight OR over fat, you go on the program or go home depending on the amounts. Shouldn't be over weight AND over fat? I mean a person can be 6 lbs over weight, but only 22% body fat, which is WITHIN standards.

Just wondering.
R,

[OSC Brian K. Brandon]

Since Stu is too busy enjoying the pizza/beer/wine party tonight, I'll go ahead and respond. (Just kidding Stu)

This is my take on what was passed by the instructors:
If you are over your MAW then they measure you. If you are within your body fat percentage then you are good to go. If you are over your MAW by more than 5 lbs AND over your body fat by more than 1% then you are cut. That was the way they explained it to me.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, Yeah and I don't know how, 'cause I never saw it...... but I guess some people can be well over their body fat and still within a couple of pounds of their MAW ??? But the standard is you can lose one pound per week or 1% per month.... so depending on the length of the school that you're in, you can be retained.

Jim, I've had several epiphanies both before and after arriving..... but go back and check the archives. ........ I believe my take has always been, if the CG thinks it's that important, they need to make it a requirement. It wasn't really a choice for me...... I had someone tell me a couple of months ago to put up or shut up. Now I don't know if someone wants to call Vegas and ask what the odds of me shutting up are...... but I can't imagine that they would be that good. So putting up seemed like the easier choice..... for me. Now the poor class 138 has to put up with me, but life is full of painful experiences, and this will be one of theirs.

Eric, I've mentioned the site to several people and intend to hit everyone before I leave, but the staff has talked about people focusing on the material at hand, so I doubt that they'll make this site a priority.

For everyone...... my Bob quote of the day...........
When you're green you grow. When you're ripe you rot.
Quick translation...... if you think that you have no room to grow, nothing else to learn, no way to improve,....... you've already begun to rot.

[AMTCM John Long]

For everyone...... my Bob quote of the day...........


That wouldn't happen to be Bob Mowhat???

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

For everyone...... my Bob quote of the day...........When you're green you grow. When you're ripe you rot.
Quick translation...... if you think that you have no room to grow, nothing else to learn, no way to improve,....... you've already begun to rot.

Never heard that before, but I like it.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Now the poor class 138 has to put up with me, but life is full of painful experiences, and this will be one of theirs.

If anyone in your class needs some counseling or ways to coap, feel free to give them my name or number.

JP3, 3 years removed from working for BMCM Slesh and still recovering. ;)

and you all thought the 3 stood for the third! :p

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

I've already stated that I enjoyed the Academy and I would even go back! It was a great experience.

However, I did feel at times that it was the "Advertising Agency for Bob" and at times it felt like a "New Age" seminar....

Don't get me wrong.. I was blessed to go, (am even wearing my class shirt today for a Chief's event) but sometimes it just felt "icky" for a lack of a better word. :cool:

v/r

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I would even go back! It was a great experience.

However, I did feel at times that it was the "Advertising Agency for Bob" and at times it felt like a "New Age" seminar....

I was blessed to go, but sometimes it just felt "icky"

I would go back...Great Experience...I was blessed to go...it felt ICKY?

How can it be great and icky? I guess I'm different, if I have icky experiences...I tend to shy away from them again. I've never sat through Bob's motivational discussions but have sat through plenty of others...never felt icky. Even if I didn't love the content...I always walked away with something.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Hook line and sinker.. I knew someone would bite at the "icky" comment.

But it is true Senior. I take the good with the bad, I was blessed to go and would definately go back through someday if afforded the chance.

But my honest opinion was that some of the "new ageish" stuff felt a little "slimy or icky". Don't know how better to describe it.

I too did walk away with something from Bob's stuff.. don't get me wrong.

And I guess we are different. I've felt pretty "icky" after some Coast Guard ops I've done (aka Hurricane Katrina response, AMIO, Oil Spill response, crossing ceremonies et al) but I'd do them all again in a heartbeat!

But icky is a good word.. I like it.. and I like using it to describe that new age stuff that permeates most "motivational" teaching.

v/r

[BMC John Phillips III]

I would go back...Great Experience...I was blessed to go...it felt ICKY?


Eric and I being classmates, I think I can kind of explain what he's saying. Eric, correct me if I am wrong. I don't think it's so much what Bob was teaching as much as it was the format in which it's delivered. They have a group of people sitting around while he is doing his thing. They focus back and forth on the people's reactions to what he's saying throughout and it kind of has a mind numbing effect. As much as I hate to say it, maybe they could have used a more attractive audience to capture reactions from. Better yet he could have been giving his seminar to a bunch of Coasties (or other uniforms). I think that might have made it a less "icky" experience for Eric.

Overall, you walk away from Bob's seminar thinking and feeling more positively about life in general and I think that makes up for the ickiness.

Here's another bob quote, "Help others get ahead. You will always stand taller with someone else on your shoulders."
Bob Moawad

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'm not getting a "new age" theme from a man in his sixties. He's quoting the founder of Mickey Ds and ancient greek philosophers..... I wouldn't label it as new.
And I'm not knocking anybody's use of whatever word they want to use..... but after Brooke Shields used "icky" in a national shampoo comercial....... it made the list of words I would stop using.

John, it is Bob Moawad. Part of the curriculum does have the course during the first week of a five week course. The instructors do seem pretty passionate about it because it has worked for them. But it's like everything thing else here. They tell you to look at it, and decide what you do and don't want to use. It is kind of interesting that lots of people are willing to dicard the message because they don't like the messenger. And the message is really radical......... look at your life, decide what's important to you, and decide what you need to get what you want out of your life.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Again...I've never been to the CPOA and haven't had the pleasure of sitting through Bob's discussions...but, I have to say it doesn't sound new age or icky to me.

Again...never been...never heard the guy.

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,

Bob was there for me also. Not sure if the presentation has been updated though?? Could be a copyright/licensing thing and we're using the original material???

Anyone remember "Ray's Hetrosexual Dance Club"? I don't know if it ever showed at the CPOA but that was a copyright/licensing presentation.

John

[AETC Joseph Adams]

I don't recall a "Heterosexual Dance Club" but the academy was a great experience for me. I just graduated with class 137. 138 is in session now. That first week is a long one, starting out on Saturday an all, but the weight standards there are "By the book" They use a level when measuring your height so I lost 1/2" from the procedures the YNs here have been using. 1/2" equalled 6 lbs off my max allowed, so I was 8 lbs over but under in body fat. The lone Coastie we lost due to weight ran the mile and a half in 11 minutes so I guess being fit doesn't help the equasion any.
All in all, I recommend it. Also, do it now while you can still pick the dates. It will be manditory Coast Guard wide soon. It is in Pacarea frm what I understand.

[AMTCM John Long]

"Heterosexual Dance Club"

Today I was trying to recall where I watched it. It might have been Civil Rights training. The gest of it was how perceptions can be wrong. If the memory serves.....it was a long Saturday Night Live skit that the CG bought the licensing rights to. It had a bunch of straight men who danced with each other, talked about their home problems, etc. Without looking at the name of the club (Ray's Hetrosexual Dance Club), one would think it was a gay club but it wasn't.

I did a Google and seen their is a movie called Ray's Hetrosexual Dance Hall. Not sure what the deal is with that??

[BMCM A Burnett]

Stu,
Hope you enjoy it. probably a little climate change. Glad you went. From what I hear there is a real big push to make it a requirment. I enjoyed it Hope you do to.

Sonny

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Sonny, I'm out here with Deb Ghanayem, who might just be the president of your fan club.
Week one is down, and it has been enjoyable. It's good to get back out and see that we still have alot of good people in the Guard. It's also good to hear what other people are doing.
And I could give you a list of some of the people that you could get the chance to interact with, but I'll just drop a couple of names that I've been able to talk to in the first six days............ We've been given the opportunity to talk with both the CO of the training center here and the LDC out in New London. I've met CMC Isherwood and VADM Wurster, PACAREA.
For all those people saying, "I wish the Coast Guard would change "this or that"......" We are taught how to properly format those suggestions and get them directly to the people that have the ability to change the policies, without needing your Command's approval. You'll create a memo out here at the Academy, and they'll get it to the people who need to read it.
"Our" Academy offers alot, but people still need to take advantage of the opportunities presented.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

So Stu, based on your CPOA experiences thus far, I guessing that you are enjoying it and finding some value in having attended. Based on your prior stated opinions I have a question or two.

Would you still have gone if it hadn't been an upcoming requirement? And do you wish that you had gone before even though it wasn't a job requirement back then?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Knowing what I know now......... I would have gone before I had a my son. I really wished that I had gone when I first got stationed in NY. I could have sent the wife home and done five weeks standing on my head......

And I put in for it before I found out it was going to be a service wide requirement. I was being called out, so it was going to be a self imposed requirement for me anyway. I wasn't joking with the "put up or shut up" comments, I was actually told that. And it was reinforced thru a third party, so I put in for something designed to help me become a better person without realizing what the course was.

And to head off the "making someone a better person defense": week one, active listening, blood test, increasing human effectiveness, fitness assessment, formal introductions training, basic presentations/introductions to public speaking ........

[BMC John Phillips III]

Not sure about the rest, but I know that the public speaking is just a refresher for you. Everywhere you go you are a public speaker, even in private ;)

[BMC Ken Gouge]

With the shift away from Trops/towards ODU's brought about by our new boss, I was wondering if anything had been addressed there yet.

Thanks

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Addressed....... and opted for not doing it. They decided to stick with trops and the combo cover to keep the Chiefs highly visible around the base.

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Good, we don't build a box to put our ODU's and ball caps in. We build a box to keep our Combo cover in. It should be worn at the CPOA. It is the symbol that represents us most.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

And the Junior Enlisted Personnel know when the see the white combo covers coming that the Chiefs are on board.

Two real quick funny story from Class CX:

A group of my classmates and I were departing the galley after breakfast one morning, about 5-6 of us, as we were walking along, a very young enlisted Coastie is about to pass us and we can watch his eyes start to get as big as wheel covers, he makes eye contact with each of us as he utters, "Morning Chief, Morning, Chief, Morning Chief, Morning Chief, Morning Chief," as we go along. we all stop and return the greeting. I don't think he ever saw that many Chiefs in one spot.

Sitting in the galley at lunch time, another class mate and I, Al Haley are sitting down to lunch and an OS A-School student realizes there isn't enough room at the adjacent table with his fellow students. He begins to look panicked that he is going to have to sit with the Chiefs. His fellow students all star to gerin and give him a little ribbing thathe has to sit with the Chiefs. We strike up a converstaion with the young man, chatting with him about class, his goals etc. After that day, every time I saw that young man either in uniform or out while we at Petaluma, he went out of his way to say good afternoon to either myself or Al.

So I am glad that the School is keeping the Trops/Combos, it definitly sets a great example.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Sorry for the confusion, but I didn't mean at the Academy. I meant the guard as a whole. When they authorized ODU's for Offices, that message said there would be more to follow, and there hasn't been yet.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ken, I don't understand your question. It's authorized it in the office, what are you looking for ? I took the "more to follow", to mean more changes to follow.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Sitting in the galley at lunch time, another class mate and I, Al Haley are sitting down to lunch and an OS A-School student realizes there isn't enough room at the adjacent table with his fellow students.

Shows you how much things have changed. When I was at the academy (129) there were tons of "A-schoolers" wearing flip-flops (or shower shoes) in the galley, so many that I couldn't say anything to them. Then one weekend I ate brunch at the galley (in civies) I sat down and saw one of them with shower shoes and pajama bottoms on. I called him over to my table as he got up to empty his tray and asked him if he knew that shower shoes were not allowed in the galley, he said, "No." I added, "Yeah you might not want to wear pajama bottoms in the galley either." Since I wasn't in uniform he didn't recognize me as a Chief, but I did bring it up to the FS's that their dress code was being very loosely enforced.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Stu, sorry for the confusion. I don't recall the original wording of the message, but I took it to mean further direction about the ODU's. Whether it was that or other uniform changes, it would still be nice to know what's upcoming.

Also regarding uniforms - They just sent out a "reserve uniform" guide (magazine) that looks pretty much like the most up-to-date uniform guidance there is up to and including the P.U.C. It still lists the winter dress uniform as authorized. I (maybe mistakenly) had thought that it wasn't and (since it is the sharpest uniform we have) would like to know the most recent guidance.

Lastly, is the Combo Cover still authorized with the ODU uniform like it was with the working blue?

Thanks

[BMC Ralph Williams]

Ken,
we just had an all hands with ADM Allen, he said there would be an ALCOAST coming out soon on some of the changes from the Uniform Board. One he authorized was the untucking of the ODU blouse, but would be phased in after all the surplus was thinned down.

Ralph

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Ken,
3.C.1 Combination cover is not authorized with the ODU and was not authorized with the working blue.

I believe the winter dress (CPO) is still authorized. I still see it being worn and it is still listed as a uniform in the Uniform regs.

[OSC Brian K. Brandon]

We just had our mid-course feedback today, and not to steal Stu's thunder, but the ODU's and Winter Dress were both brought up.

According to MCPO John Neice the ODU's will never be worn at the Academy by students while he is there. Same goes for the combination cover, it will always be a part of the Academy uniform. He said that he would have to get back to us about the option of wearing the Winter Dress uniform.

So far the Academy has been different than I imagined. It has given me a lot of insight into myself and my personality. I understand better my strengths and weaknesses, and where I need to improve as a person.

If anybody is on the fence about attending the Academy, I highly recommend going. As MCPO Neice is fond of saying: "Maybe I drank the cool-aid, maybe I'm just a zealot."

Feel free to chime in Stu.... The fish is yours.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Brett, the Combo cover was authorized with all uniforms for E-7 and above. It is not authorized for ODUs, and was an issue for some Chiefs when we started wearing that uniform.

We just finished week two. Lots of writing instruction, memorandums,awards......... We also covered personality types, conflict management, stress indicators, strategic thinking, and of course team building exercises.

Good stuff and good times being had by all.

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Well, I guess I never knew the combo cover was authorized with the old working blue. I never saw anyone wear it, and the uniform regs say the combo is authorized with all uniforms except the ODU and working blue. Either way, the working blue is out so it's a mute point. But I can chalk this up to learning something new everyday.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Brett, a friend of mine wore his with EVERYTHING. And by everything; I've seen him wear it with the hot weather uniform, in a mustang, and everything in between...........

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

BMC Dobbins wore his combo cover every day I knew him also. We were on the Boutwell together back in the late 80's and he also worn one of those brown leather jackets. He would be standing there across from us on the flight deck for muster/quarters in his work uniform, leather jacket and topped off with his combo cover.

Jayare

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

Was it actually authorized, contradicting the uniform regs, or were the Chief's just not told to not wear it?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The uniform regs authorized the Combo Cover for all uniforms, for E-7 and above. That was why we built the hat box. The Combo Cover was seen as the symbol of the Chief.

[BMC John Phillips III]

in a mustang, and everything in between...........

in a mustang in the dead of winter in the small boat, chin strap down. First and only time in my career I have ever seen someone use the chin strap on the combo cover in a practical situation. Don't forget with the light blue shirt and the kilt while underway. Glad there were no step ladders onboard.


So far the Academy has been different than I imagined. It has given me a lot of insight into myself and my personality. I understand better my strengths and weaknesses, and where I need to improve as a person.

If anybody is on the fence about attending the Academy, I highly recommend going

I will second that Brian, I felt the same way.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Anyone stationed in Boston in the last 5-6 years will also remember a MCPO that wore the combo cap with everything, and usually with sneakers!

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Although ODU would be nice to wear, I'd hate to think of how many bags you'd need to get all your stuff out there when you go. Sounds more like you'd need to do a partial DITY just to get back and forth, as I don't think you could leave back any of the dressier uniforms.

Stu keep having fun. At least you don't have to survive the early morning step-arobics with Trish. She made you pay for giving her a hard time in class. I'm just glad there was no video cameras in there, it was ugly.

And I'm closing in the 10th anniversary of my graduation, with Class XL (12/12/96). A good time was had by all.

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

Lastly, is the Combo Cover still authorized with the ODU uniform like it was with the working blue?

Thanks

No. Only the ball cap is authorized.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Stu-
The last person that I talked to at the CPO Academy said that the instructors weren't thrilled with this discussion board and wouldn't endorse it. Has anything changed?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Well, Dennis, interestingly enough, your name did come up......... but you are kinda legendary.......
There are members of the staff that are members of this forum, some post, others do not. We also have some that read the posts but don't want to become members.
I haven't heard anyone knocking what we're doing, but I would probably be the last person that would hear the complaints anyway.

I have heard some negative things from other people that I've met out here, but no one from the staff. I still get a kick out of how someone could be bashing the site. People that don't like what's being said here, but don't want to sign on and set the record straight.......... and keep coming back to read the posts........ and complaining about it...... and coming back to read the posts.......

[AMTCM John Long]

I have heard some negative things from other people that I've met out here, but no one from the staff. I still get a kick out of how someone could be bashing the site. People that don't like what's being said here, but don't want to sign on and set the record straight.......... and keep coming back to read the posts........ and complaining about it...... and coming back to read the posts.......

Stu,

That's a good point. I am not sure how someone could bash the site. It's benign, non-flamming and open. You don't see too many secrets around here. It's all transparent.....what you see is what you get.

I don't get it???

Of all folks, I'd like to see the all CPOA staff become members here. They could bring alot ot the table on certain issues. In fact....I wonder if the CPOA should be the primary sponsor/promoter of the site? Hmmmmm???? :cool:

John

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I've always hoped that the CPOA would either promote the site, or develop one of their own. Either way, there should be an endorsed discussion board generated by somebody.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

We have be moving slowly toward that goal. With some of the more recent posts from some fairly influential people, I think that we may start getting more "straight from the horse's mouth" answers. Some people are starting to see this site as a quick venue to reach the masses.

[AMTCM John Long]

We have be moving slowly toward that goal. With some of the more recent posts from some fairly influential people, I think that we may start getting more "straight from the horse's mouth" answers. Some people are starting to see this site as a quick venue to reach the masses.

Another thought.....IMO...the site has to:

1. Add credibility thru HQ/CPOA endorsement (nice to do)
2. Be transparent (have to do)
3. Be factual (have to do)

John

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I've been thinking about this for a few days, maybe I'm coming off the Runner's High, who knows --

How about a Gold Badge Section for te Badges to post their musings and information? We can set it up similar to the CPOA Chapter section or Rating Boards, one sub folder for each District Gold Badge.

I'm just not too sure how interested they are willing to get into one-on-one discussions on various policies and procedures.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Steve, I like that idea. I vote to make it happen for those powers that be.

[BMC Ralph Williams]

I like that idea too. :)

[BMC John Phillips III]

How about a Gold Badge Section for te Badges to post their musings and information? We can set it up similar to the CPOA Chapter section or Rating Boards, one sub folder for each District Gold Badge.

I'm just not too sure how interested they are willing to get into one-on-one discussions on various policies and procedures.

It is a good idea, but I can see the cons (or are they called deltas now?)

Anyway, you are gonna have a few people saying things they probably shouldn't and asking questions that probably don't need to be asked of the GB's. Then you will have people getting their panties in a wad when the answer they do get doesn't suit their needs.

Look at that, I half way to getting one of those jobs.

Well those are my thoughts against. Now if you want to just make a posting board where the Gold Badges can post things they want to pass, people would always have the option of commenting on it somewhere else on the board. Hopefully most would have the sense to know that if a Gold Badge is posting it here they have already explored every avenue, had high level reviewers and considered all of the repurcussions of whatever it was they had to pass. But then again we are Chiefs and we can be bull-headed at times.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

JP3,

Good input, before I kick it off, I'll consult with MCPO James when he returns later this week.

[BMCM Bill James]

I'm not against the idea of a CMC board. Rather than one board for each, how about just one for all? Some CMCs may post more or less than others, and I don't want to see comments about their abilities based solely on how often or even whether they come to this, or any other, site.

Are you thinking a DISCUSSION board, or a place for us to just post info?

Anyone can ask me any question they'd like, and I'll answer it to the best of my ability, and in a manner appropriate for the venue & audience (i.e., you'll hear more in private than in public). If the question is about a certain policy or procedure, then I'd feel comfortable answering only for those in LANTAREA...if somewhere else, I'd refer you to the correct CMC or other POC.

I'm trying to get a LANT CMC website established - so far, all that's happend is that what WAS up (my pic, bio, e-mail & phone) have DISAPPEARED!! Maybe I said the wrong thing to the webmaster or clicked the "unsubscribe" button. I need a website to, at least, contain all of the "all hands" info I crank out - much of it can't get through to u/w units due to file size and sure enough, just as I delete something, I'll get a request for it!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Finished week three........ Ethics training, Leadership Seminar, Unit Performance Factors, Award Writing, Degree Planning, Memorandum Writing, Writing Essays, High Ropes..........

And another overall benifit of the CPOA .......... of the 18 rates that we have in the CG, 17 are represented in our class.......... Steve, not knocking PAs .......... but you guys couldn't have sent us just one ?

[BMCM Bill James]

You have a MUSICIAN in the class?!? Take a picture - they're rarer than PAs!

I hadn't realized we'd dropped to so few ratings...here's the latest list of 17 from the recruiting website (notice MU isn't listed):

Deck & Ordnance: BM, GM, OS
Hull & Engineering: MK, EM, DC, ET, IT
Aviation: AMT, AST, AET
Admin & Scientific: FS, HS, MST, PA, SK, YN

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Yet another benefit, the CPOA is going to furnish us with a variety of photos from our stay, so I'll have all the evidence I'll even need. And he passed out CDs where he's credited as the Bugler.
During the Unit Performance Factor presentations, half the class heard about the Coast Guard band. Alot of eyes opened to an aspect of the CG we weren't familiar with.
During one of our Chief's Corner Presentations, one of our Recruiters gave us a break down that listed the CG as having 73 PAs and 54 Mus. But the MU breakdown has alot more E-7 and above, ......... and I learned that here. I also learned how that came about, and not from the course, from one of the Chiefs that was affected. Lots of good can come from spending time with a bunch of Chief's that your normal routine would never let you meet.

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

Just curious...

When I went through CCTI, MC Slesh was my sponsor. One thing I endeavored to do, with his guidance, was get at least one signature from each rate in the Coast Guard and even got some Navy Chief signatures. I even got the rare TTCM Reservist signature. I travelled for my signatures and even went to the CG Academy to get MC Downey's and a MUC, MUCS or MUCM.

I did get MC Downey's (long story) and an autographed copy of the Chief's march by the guy who wrote it (an uninitiated Chief at the time, NFI) but was unable to get a MUC signature because, THERE WEREN"T ANY. I hope that has changed.

Can any MU's tell me if this changed?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Tim, don't take this the wrong way............ but it was probably that no one wanted to sign your book because you were a QM,......... and the MUs have a reputation that they want to uphold..............

During MCPO-CG Patton's tenure, he saw that the band was given ten more billets. That created an E-9 billet, three more 8s (making 7 total), and four more E-7 billets (which meant 19(?)total).

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

Why can I never see the obvious...

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Is that a rhetorical question ......... ?

If not, I'll say it's because you lack vision. You can apply the meaning of your choice..........

What probably happened, when you looked at getting the signatures, was that no one there that day was initiated. They only had two members of the band that were initiated over the past couple of years, and both of them just retired recently.

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

Now you're scaring me, you are remembering exactly what was said in one conversation you and I had almost 6 years ago. :eek:

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I have hard times remembering conversations I had six days ago........

But I have learned that you stay true to your core beliefs, and since my core beliefs haven't changed in the past six years........... I'm probably just repeating myself.........

[AMTCM John Long]

I'm a little late on this. Let me touch base on a subject that was discussed a few pages back.

Reference Trops.

Call me old fashioned. When I first came in back in 1981, the trop uniform was a special uniform. It, along with SDB's, were dress uniforms worn for special occasions. Capt Masts, PI's, Awards, Re-enlistments, VIP visits, graduations, getting hitched, etc. Most anything else we used the undress/working blues.

Nowadays, trops have morphed into acceptability as a daily work uniform. By and large, I do not see working in an office or sitting in a classroom (training=work) as an acceptable application of trops.

I think the COMDT is spot on with the application of the ODU's in the office. IMO, he has given it more application and visibility. Lets use it!!!! :cool:

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

John you have to realize that the arguement has been made, probably by each class, and the Academy has its stance. Their stance does have alot of merit. The CPOA class can be identified from across the base.
I don't like trops,...... never have. Light blue doesn't agree with me. But I do act differently when I walk around in low quarters. It's just one more thing that takes people out of their comfort zone.
Trops are here to stay, at least as long as the current school Chief is here. I'd be willing to bet the next one will continue to use it. I'd say it stays as long as the Combo Cover still means something to the School Chief. Once the Cover loses its meaning ................

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,

I don't have problem with the trops.....just the application. Up till the "new guy" reported in up here, it was trops. Just didn't seem right working in the trop uniform. To me, that marginalizes the significance and purpose of the uniform.

As far as the CPOA, if the current view is to work in trops, can't do much about that. Those are their rules and you go with it.

Will the next School Chief change it, who knows?? We didn't know the new Comdt was going to change it till word trickled out just before he began his tenure.

Anywho.......how's the class going? I see you did the high ropes. Did you guys/gals climb the wall yet?

John

[PACS Steve Carleton]

You have a MUSICIAN in the class?!? Take a picture - they're rarer than PAs!


OUCH!!!!!!

You forget, I know where your desk is!

Class CX had 2 PAs, one is now the PA RFMC and the other is yours truly.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

...and an autographed copy of the Chief's march by the guy who wrote it (an uninitiated Chief at the time, NFI) but was unable to get a MUC signature because, THERE WEREN"T ANY. I hope that has changed.
Can any MU's tell me if this changed?

MUC Tom Labradorf is the composer of the CPO March and he he is Initiated and he sends autographed copies of the liner notes.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

John, the wall is part of the low ropes, and is done on the second day, Sunday afternoon.

Having a good time, in a way, it's kind of like this board; a way to interact with a bunch of Chief's your career path would never let you meet. Lots to learn if you're willing to listen...........

[AMTCM John Long]

Do you remember how long it took to get everyone over the wall?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

There were 58 of us and we did it in about 45 minutes........... Though Tim Dickman told me to tell you it was only 13 minutes.......... Did I type that last part out loud ?

[MCPO Francis Jennings]

Class CX had 2 PAs, one is now the PA RFMC and the other is yours truly.

That's the entire PACM work force, isn't it Steve? :)

FFJ

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

They are still teaching Bob? They were doing that when I attended Class 7 in 1996!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Sure are, Increasing Human Effectiveness from the EDGE Learning Institute.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Sorry that I keep turning this thread back to self-serving purposes, but since we've estabished that this is the only discussion board dedicated to CG Chiefs, is the Academy ready to lend it's endorsement and at least mention it to subsequent classes?

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,

Tell Tim Dickman I'm glad he showed up. I kept pushing him to go. Yes, the Tweet Shop can survive without him.

We might of had 30 or 31 in our class. We figured out a way to do it quickly. At that time we supposedly had one of the quicker times. Once set up we could get folks over the wall in under 15 seconds probably.

Back to Dennis's point about the CPOA endorsement. Is there anymore talk of it?

John

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

MUC Tom Labradorf is the composer of the CPO March and he he is Initiated and he sends autographed copies of the liner notes.

Steve,

He wasn't when I got the music from him. I am glad to hear he went through CCTI.

Congrats Tom (belated).

[PACS Steve Carleton]

That's the entire PACM work force, isn't it Steve? :)

FFJ


What is with you LANTAREA Gold Badges, just getting your licks in when you can?

[BMCM A Burnett]

Stu,
Almost done. After reading all this I had to pull out my Bob stuff. Tell Deb I said hi. So are you the prefect Chief now? You get a chance when you get back give me a call.

Sonny

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,
You get a chance when you get back give me a call.

Sonny


He won't have time. He'll be working on his package for the Army SGT Majors Academy! :eek: :D

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

No no no no no no noooooooooooooooo. Five weeks away from the family is fine. And I had my fill of all things Army when I left them back in '86. Let's see if I can apply everything that I've learned out here and work a little towards that perfection before I take away any more training billets from people more deserving that I. Sonny, I'll get in touch with you soon, I have more tales of myserty and amazement to share withcya...........

[AMTCM John Long]

Stu,

Do they weigh you guys prior to departure to see what kind of progress you made?

John

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Yes, you do a fitness assessment the first weekend that you're here, and another during the last week. The only thing missing from the re-assessment is blood work, but those that were identified as having cholesterol concerns were told to do a follow-up at their unit four months after making the changes to their diet and exercise routines.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Wrapping up here, and heading out tomorrow. Week four gave us coaching and counseling, Joint PME, Diversity, Public Affairs, and some strategic thinking presentations. And our last three days gave us an hour with MCPOCG Bowen and another hour with the COMDT. It you can't see the benefit of having two hours to talk with the highest Enlisted Member of the Coast Guard and our COMDT......... you need to expand your mind just a little. You are given the opportunity to express your concerns and ideas to the people who make the decisions in a non-attribution setting. No one looking over your shoulder......... available to everyone in every class. Reason enough to make the trip.

[ASTC Ronny German]

Have fun at the dinner! For me that was the highlight of the whole experience.

[BMCS R. Scott Pugh]

They do put on a heck of a spread for the dinner. I enjoyed the entire 5 weeks, but that seems like it was forever ago.

Scott
Class 80

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Master Chief

I can't believe you have been there five weeks already, seems like you just got there.

[AETC Joseph Adams]

That was the thing I noticed, the first week kid of drug on but after that, graduation day snuck up on you and before you knew it, it was done. The dinner is a great time, the Doubletree is VERY nice. They also have a professional photographer there so if you're spouse is there with you, you can have a photo done. A bit expensive, we just got ours back on Monday and it was worth it.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Stu, enjoy the dinner it's one of the big highlights of the CPOA experience. And much better than the lunch experiment they tried a few years back. So who's the keynote speaker tonight?

[BMCM A Burnett]

Stu, enjoy you deserve it. Glad to hear you got something out of it talk with you soon.

Sonny

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

ADM Pearson, the Commandant of Human Resources was our keynote speaker. The Meal was great, but that wasn't the highlight of my time. I clean up well, but lack certain social skills. I was sitting at the head table right next to the Chaplan. I didn't swear once the entire meal.... a new personal best.
The Doubletree is quite the experience. They put out a great spread, and the rooms are great as well. Words of wisdom for future class presidents..... never eat the cheese cake before you do your speech, and introduce the guest speaker. I could have downed five pounds of cane sugar and had less jitters. I thought I was going to go into diabetic shock..........

[BMCM A Burnett]

I can relate. We had Skip Bowen for our guest speaker at BM"A" grad Friday. Try hacking his bio at 8AM. I am glad he let us adjust it to flow better at that time of the morning. I am glad I didn't sit next to Chaplin. :) .