How involved should we be????

[BMCS Joe Wright]

Over the years I have seen, heard and have been directly involved in conversations about how involved we should be in our members' personal lives.

I have heard - "The Coast Guard is just a job" - "It's MORE than just a job" - "Don't get involved until they make you" - "Get involved early to save paper work later"

Who is right?

It is a question I do not have the answer to. I will offer this - I have enjoyed my time on ships more than shore units becuase thier seems to be less personnel issues (we have all heard that before, right). My theory is because on a ship I am more directly involved with the crew and able to supervise more directly. When we are underway I am not being pulled away for meetings or phone calls or going home in the evenings. I am on the ship supervising.

With that said, how far can I take it? If I have a member that is struggling outside of work, but does fine at work, how involved do I get? :confused:

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here, Joe. If we start involving ourselves in the private lives of our subordinates, we will also have to begin accepting responsibility for the outcome of that involvement. Do you really want to be a contributing factor to a young petty officer deciding to leave his wife and three kids? Or explain to your spouse why you have time to give financial advice to SN Gooblatz on a weekend, but can't take the time to go shopping with her (that might just be my problem...)?

This service already saturates a member's personal life with rules and regulations. I don't think most of them/us want the extra involvement.

As for the spell check comments...there is book available at your nearest Walden's that alphabetizes all of its words. It's called a dictionary.

[MKCS Paul Miller]

As the "Chief" You are a personnel manager. :eek: Your rated technical abilities and requirements were met when you made 1st class. It is your job to pass on to those who work for (with) you, guidance. Be it guidance on their technical aspects, military life, or personal life. This guidance is not "Ok, here is what you need to do", it is providing the resources available, resources they may not know about. I believe I am a fairly good Equipment Mechanic, but I am NOT a very good People Mechanic. Therefore, only a fool would try to fix something they are not qualified to do. Would you yourself follow someone who lead you using only position power? :( or would you enjoy more, working with the person who actually cared about you and your situations? :rolleyes: You as the supervisor need take the time to identify what the barriers are in your people and remove (as possible) those barriers that are keeping them from getting motivated or staying focused. Will this take a tremendouse amount of time and effort? :confused: Yes it will. But look back on your own career, and think of the person who you truly enjoyed working with, I willing to bet it was because they cared about you (the person). This way of thinking can be very contageous. Let's bring the "Chief" into a new light, a LEADER not the old salty barking dog.

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

As a Chief I feel I have a responsibility to take care of my people. Does that mean that I get personally involved with my people, yes sometimes it does. When a member that is in my Division has a death in the family, I do all I can to help that member by offering information they may not know. When a member seems to have some anger issues I offer help via Worklife and EAP. Sometimes they want to offer up more information than I need to know. None of the young people of the Coast Guard joined to have a firm fathers hand guiding them through. I try to pass on to all of our people that sometimes people make bad decisions, and sometimes bad decisions lead to disciplinary actions. It always depends on the situation. I pass on information that has happened to me personally, by learning things through experience, ( Hard Knocks). I just try to pass on information that will lead them to making good sound, informed decisions if thats whats needed. I dont mingle in there personal lives, unless asked. I do feel they know Im the Chief, and Im here to help. Im not just here to task them and take administrative action.
As far as a spell checker goes, make you post in MS Word then just cut and paste. Thats how I do my evaluations since there is not a spell checker in CGHRMS either.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Hello all, I agree with most of the remarks posted with the exception of some of the comments made by senior. It is our job and responsibility as the chiefs to help out our young members. We don’t have all the answers but we should have the knowledge to know how to get the answers or be able to send them in the right direction to get the answers/help our people need. If our people are happy in all aspects of their life the better they perform at work. The people here on the ship know they can come to me with what ever problems they have and I’ll do my best to help them out. Do I go looking to medal into their personal life’s? Hell no. But if they ask I feel its my job as a chief to help them weather its like Keith said using my experiences or sending them in the right direction to get the help they need. Not everyone has the knowledge and experience that’s why we the chiefs are here. It’s our job to help shape the junior people in the Coast Guard. It’s amazing how well your people will perform for you if you show them you care about them as a person. Yes we do have do bark at times but not all the time. After all chiefs are leaders not followers. :) So lets lead

[BMCS Joe Wright]

Thank you all for your input so far..........I agree 150% with everything you have said so far.

Let me put out a scenario for us to throw around:

You have a class "A" performer (one f the hardest working people you have ever known).....out of the blue (and I mean - out of the blue) they come in saying they are leaving thier spouse........work dosen't become poor, but thier is definately a decline....buys a new vehicle.....gets some tatoo's.....and then has maoney issues. Now at the begining of all of this they were offered assistance from the usual sources (Chaplain, EAP, work-life, etc.)......but they declined!!!! Now this is where my question picks up.....how involved can or should I become. This member is currently facing NJP charges for doind something stupid. In hind sight I wish I would have forced this member into getting help at the beggining.....but could I have done that??? I have since directed the member to get help...at this point I do not know if they have yet or not, but I am going to follow up.

So the question stands.......I was there for him....I offered assistance......should I have taken it further, or was the fall inevitable?

Thanks for your input......

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

How do you "force" a member to get help???
And, if you do find a way to get him to a counseling session, how do you know your just not making the situation worse by insisting on a course of action that he doesn't want to pursue?
I'm all for providing alternatives, setting an example, and listening when appropriate, but I'll argue, again, that most of us do not want any more interference from the service than is already present.

Having said that, we do build up professional/personal relationships over time that might justify an intervention or action above and beyond the call of duty. But even then, we should wonder if we are really so smart, that we know what is best for another human being.

Joe, I do love arguing with you...even when I agree.

[MKCS Paul Miller]

BMC Joe, You can't be, nor should you be expected to be, responsible for the personal actions of your people. If you show true personal concern for, and provide all possible assitnace to, and follow up with someone (even if only under your charge) who needs it, then that's more than expected of a leader. You will gain their respect, devotion, and... Your willingness to help and provide all possible resources will speak very loudly to anyone :) . If they are not willing to accept that assistance, then there is nothing you can do, you can't force them to get help. You can take a horse to water but can't make him drink. I'm not saying you won't hurt inside as you watch them fail or destroy their lives, :( but if you do hurt inside, to watch your people go through that, then your on the right track, because then you know you care.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I guess senior and master chief said it the way I see it. I have a situation going on right now along the same lines. What I did was I sat down with the member counseled him on what can happen with indebtedness and offered to help him plan a budget to help him track his spending. I lead him to the water and he decided to drink. I created a spreadsheet for him to help him track his spending on a daily basis. By putting in the net monthly salary and creating some formulas he can now track how much he spends daily on each item, how much he has spent to date and how much money he has left for the remaining of the month. If you'd like I can e-mail you this spread sheet. Just shot me an e-mail at abailly@cgcmaple.uscg.mil and I'll forward it to you.

[MKCS Paul Miller]

Good Job "Chief" (Art), That is what it is all about, being a "Chief". Being there to provide your people with the resources to get the job done and or get them back on track. When the resources are/were not readily available, you made one. Very Good. You were there for him when he needed you. He will remember that forever. ;)

[ETCS Robert Kelley]

I have a young member who has gone through some growing pains here. After 8 months afloat and some problems in A School arrived here on the opposite coast from family as an E-2 (could have been an E-4 by then). He reported here as a 20 y/o with an 18 y/o wife and a young child, needless to say not the best starting position. His wife has returned to the safety of her mother's arms with the child but has accumulated enough debt that the member is now in financial difficulty as well. All the suggestions and guidance to resources form Work-Life, EAP, Chaplain, district CMC, and financial counseling have been politely ignored. This marginal performer has had a number of job related difficulties as well. He has had qualifications pulled and numerous CG-3307 entries. Eventually an NJP was needed to get his attention and demonstrate the seriousness of his situation. At the NJP I strongly suggested he contact EAP and try to develop a plan to turn his situation around. In addition I suspended his punishment for 6 months as an additional incentive to change his current course. Since then he has developed a plan to work himself out of this hole. I don’t know if it was EAP or the suspended punishment that helped motivate his changes, or if it was something else entirely but his job performance is improving albeit slowly. It is a difficult position to be in; deciding how much “interference” you should be to a member in trouble, but if this were easy anyone could do it. Ultimately you can lead a person just so far and there are tools in place to do just that, it is just a matter of using them appropriately in each individual situation. In Art’s case the member seems to have gotten the picture early, in my case a little later and in some cases they never do. I believe you can make all the suggestions and provide guidance to help a person while still holding them accountable for their performance, showing compassion and accountability.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Just my two cents...if its even worth that. Problems outside of work are the responsiblity of the individual. Unresolved, their outside problems will probably affect their work and become your problem as well. We have the tools to provide assistance, but the decisions all have to come from the individual. All of the programs that you have mentioned are, for the most part, voluntary. Its that crap in crap out theory. If the individual isn't going to take full advantage of a program by putting forth an open and honest effort.......there is little that we can do until it comes time to hold them accountable. You simply can't help someone who doesn't want help. You can show them the error of their ways and explain things based on your years of experience ........ but only they can make real changes in their own life. NJP doesn't change a person. It may show them the consequences of their actions. They may come around afterwards, they may fall deeper down the hole.
Bottom line....they're adults, making adult decisions, in an adult world. Offer guidance, the solution is up to them.