Qualified vs recommended

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'm just asking because the XPO list came out. I know that some people got jobs even though their command didn't recommend them. And others didn't get jobs because they weren't qualified, even though they got raving Command endorsements. And by not qualified, it's stuff like no DWO letter. So which would you rather have .......... in a perfect world.

[BMC Scott Coder]

I would have to go cautiously with someone that is not recommended, but qualified. Here are my reasons.

a. When a member is marked or recommended by a supervisor there is alot that goes into it, including personal bias.

b. Perhaps there could be personal conflict between the command and the member. I have seen this happen in a few cases when a member is willing to stand his ground because he was right in the letter of the law, it just happened to go against a command decision.

c. If this member has a slight attitude I feel that I could get that member on track quicker and easier than trying to teach the responsibilities and duties of XPO to the member.

and finally, maybe this guy/gal just needs a fresh start and a true sense of responsibility to get them jump started. I guess I would have to see the whole picture and background of the person to make the right choice.

Good question

Scott

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

See I can't give any amplifying information, I have to remain vague, but add ...... in a perfect world. I saying you get the call from the Command and they tell you they have two people........ one is fully qualified for the position but they're telling you that he shouldn't be considered for it. The other person is missing (?) something.... but they're telling you that, given the chance, this is the better person for the billet.

[BMC John Phillips III]

a. When a member is marked or recommended by a supervisor there is alot that goes into it, including personal bias.

b. I have seen this happen in a few cases when a member is willing to stand his ground because he was right in the letter of the law, it just happened to go against a command decision.

c. If this member has a slight attitude I feel that I could get that member on track quicker and easier than trying to teach the responsibilities and duties of XPO to the member.

and finally, maybe this guy/gal just needs a fresh start and a true sense of responsibility to get them jump started. I guess I would have to see the whole picture and background of the person to make the right choice.
Scott

In a "perfect world" A and B doesn't happen. I mostly agree with C. As far as needing a fresh start, my only objection is that I am a big performance then reward guy. I don't really agree with rewarding as incentive to perform. So I wouldn't be good with the fresh start thing. My feelings are if the person doesn't like it where they are or are having conflicts, they still have an obligation to do their job to the best of their abilities before moving on. It's like a straight path from a to b, no back doors or side stepping to get to c.

Now to answer the poll, I would take the guy who is recommended for the reason that if I go out of my way to recommend a person even though they are not qualified? I am putting extra faith and confidence in that persons abilities and would not set them up for failure. However, not everyone thinks like that and unfortunately there are people out there that won't step up and say, this person is not ready to perform in these jobs and might actually recommend them thinking they wouldn't get the job because they are not qualified. So reality is there is no perfect world, can we revise the poll and make a 50/50? Which is funny cause I used to have a guy that I called 50/50, you asked him a question and he'd guess yes or no so he always had a 50/50 chance of being right.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I would have to know where the guy that is recommended is coming from. There are people out there that talk a good game, suck up, brown nose etc.

Unfortunately those people tend to get good recommendations depending on where they were stationed. There are some who have "canned" recommendations, change the name/date and press send... I would like to read the recommendation and see the specifics about why this guy is awesome.

I feel qualifications are important. You could either get a BM1 who has been at a station, coxswain/BO qualified, and ois ready to show up and be your XPO... OR - the former QM that is a helluva performer, but will have to begin with Comms Watch or Boat Crew and go from there. While he may have had a shining recommendation from his Command, he is gonna take a lot more time before he can actually give boards, gain total respect from the crew...

For Cutter XPO's, the qualifications are pre-requisites. For Stations, not so much. I voted qualified.

Edited to add: Isn't a command endorsement required for XPO???

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

It's required to screen, but after they've screened something could have happened where you no longer want to recommend them for certain jobs.

And as far as sucking up to get the good recommendation, couldn't the same be said about getting the qualification ? Haven't you even gotten someone and wondered who qualified this person the first time around ?

And look at this from the other side..... we've been complaining about people who aren't willing to say "Not Recommended". How much stock are we willing to put into it when someone actually said, this person shouldn't get the job?

And let's not make this a QM scenerio. Read down that list again, lots of legacy QMs doing consecutive tours. How many of those legacy QMs have you heard of getting RFC ? I haven't heard of one. There's always going to be people who want to do the job and people who don't....... regardless of rate/rating.

And for the person who was standing up for the letter of the law scenerio.......
I think that I was always that person. But there are ways to stand your ground that are right and others that are wrong. I could say that I've always stood up for what's right...... I couldn't say that I've always gone about it the right way,........ and keep a straight face.

[BMCS Nick Pupo]

Stu, based just on a member putting in for a billet they were not qualified for and going from there. I would have to say I would not want that person. However, if I had a chance to review their experience and maybe even talk to the person then I would base my decision on that. So in short would I be conducting a quasy interview, yes but in this case I think it fits for filling that job.

As far as the recommended or not being recommended for a job. If a member received orders to my unit but was not recommended for the job, what would I do. Good question. I would want to talk to the command that did not recommended him/her and find out the reasons why. If I felt it was still necessary not to have the person then I would make a call and convey my concerns to the AO. If however that still did not stop them from executing their orders, I would play a good Coastie and help that person succeed if they showed they wanted to.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I would take the person with the recommendation and does not have some of the quals.

If folks are getting XPO jobs after not being recommended by their cmd, something is wrong with the system. Yes, there is the occassional case in which a good mbr may not receive a recommendation due to a conflict with cmd, but I would say that is the exception and not the rule. By I would much rather have the mbr with the strong recommendation, and then train them to get up to speed.

I'm sure that was the situation with some of the QM's when the merger came about, but that is part of the price to be paid with change. I would hope that most of the time it worked out.

[BMCS T. D. Ellis]

I voted for the recommendation and not qualified and here's why.

My perception is a number of OinC fills in the last couple of years where COMDT has filled billets with unqualified but recommended people. If my perception is wrong on this please let me know. I am not sure if this is an official policy but that seems to be the rule so until I here different, that's what I will do.

Personal experience:

Two years ago I went to HQ and did the grip and grin with the Detailers. They stated I needed to put XPO at Stations on my EADC. I want to stay afloat for the rest of my career but I listened to them and put Stations 21, 22, 23, 24 & 25 on my EADC with the comments on my Dreamsheet that I wanted to learn from either a CWO or an MC to learn how to do the XPO job right.

A month later the Detailer called me and told me I had a choice between 2 110's and 2 175's. I hadn't been on a black hull in 9 years but wanted to get back into the fleet. I took the 175 and haven't gotten as much time on deck as I wanted (not BDS qualified) but I am told my XPO abilities are good and that was what the CO wanted me to focus on.

Now I did not hold all the qualifications on the EADC but I did get an excellent recommendation from my CO and I did get an extension here because I screened positively for command afoat but was stupid enough to only put down one 87 on my EADC (stupid, stupid, stupid...). Such is life.

Now, of course, I need an OinC ashore qual and am working on getting a Cox'n letter so I can take the E-9 SWE. Does this make me unshoppable? I don't think so. SHOULD I have gone to a Station or an ANT instead of here? Probably. My point is I fit the profile of not qualified but recommended but I seem to have done well which I guess is why I voted that way, subconsciously and coincidentally in accordance with the unwritten policy I experienced.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If I ever called someone and recommended a person for a position, any position, the person receiving the call is someone I have a degree of credability with them, either personal or reputation.

That alone would represent a lot of faith in the person being transferred to go a good job ... to the receiving command. That happened to the last person I recommended ... and the receiving Division Chief stated they would welcome anyone who received training from me. [Damm, let my head swelling subside].

Ok, back on topic ...

In alot of cases we are dealt a set of personnel from HQ and we make the best of what we receive, however, if someone went the extra step of calling me and giving someone a personal recommendation, I would certainly call the detailer asking for that individual.

In the pre-com stages of my last unit the PEPO's last unit failed to get him to extend to accept the orders and he decided to get out [he wasn't on the unit for more than 90 days]. I informed the MK detailer that I wanted someone with the MK22 qual code and I will make sure he get's his MK-01 school and become EPO qualified. I got a PO2 who was making PO1. I did talk to his EO and was quite satisfied that I was receiving someone with excellent potential. I did suprise the PO2, to say the least, when he received orders to attend the EPO conference prior to him setting for on the unit. His current EO was very accomandating to my request for that TAD. The PO2 didn't believe stuff like that could happen.

If someone I knew, and it's happened many times in the past, called and recommended someone, it will be well worth it.

I've had a PO2 EPO that the OIC of the nearby SAR unit would have gladly accepted.

I'd take the chance. It's a hell of a better bet than we normally get ... with all the other transfers. :)

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I voted for not qualed but recommended. Reason? Simple, I got an XPO Alfoat job without pocessing a DWO letter and did great. I was Qulaified DWO in 2 months, and took the cutter on a patrol when the BMCM was on leave 6 months into the tour. Why did I get the job, donno. My E-resume had the three XPO afloat jobs that were open that year and ANY afloat unit I could get a letter at. Thats exactly what I told the AO when he called. I would take any afloat unit. So it worked for me. Any person that wants a particular job does better than someone that does not want that job regardless of qualifications.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

In most circumstances, I would lean toward the recommended person. The "qualified" person would need to "re-certify" anyway. I would prefer someone that is a little green that can ripen into the job, then someone that has soured and may not bring the value I am looking for to the unit. I think it is better management over the long haul to give the hard charger the chance and cut the dead wood. Maybe the dead wood just needs a change of places and faces to re-charge his batteries, but that is a chance I would be reluctant to take unless his quals were something that my unit was in desperate need of.

[BMCS Mark Stauffer]

I voted that I would take somebody that was recommended over qualified. The person obviously received a good recommendation because they were hopefully professional, knowledgable and a good hard worker. If that person received the recommendation then it shouldn't take them long to get qualified. I would have to tread cautiously because there are some instances where I would reverse my decision. One instance would be a person recommended but couldn't pass the DWO exam and going to a cutter. If the person can't pass the exam then their recommendation isn't doing me a bit of good.

Several questions would have to be posed about why a person wasn't recommended. Was it a conflict between the CO/OIC and the person looking for the recommendation? Did the person do something to lose the trust? Not having an inside scoop on why a person wasn't recommended raises a bunch of questions.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Mark, even if there was a conflict between the CO/OinC and the XPO....... someone did say, Not Recommended. I would go as far as to say, even if the XPO was right in taking a stand, he went about it in the wrong way. If he didn't like the decisions that were being made and objected, fine. But once he's told to carry out those decisions he has an obligation to the unit. If those decisions were deemed unsafe or against COMDT policy, he should have used another avenue to resolve them.
If an XPO has a conflict with the CO/OinC......... no matter how right he is, ...he's wrong.