The Chief Petty Officer's Academy

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

The district CMC sent out an email today, pointing out that a number of E-7s and E-8s in this area have not attended the CPO Academy and encouraging them (us) to do so. My question- how would this school benefit someone like me? I have 10 years as a Chief/Senior Chief and am working on my second OIC tour. Doesn't that give me all of the tools I need in my bag?

[ETCS David Kroll]

Hi Dennis,
I've been watching the threads lately and to be honest, kind of sitting off to the side. Now come on, are you serious, do you honestly think your so senior, so full of knowledge that you don't need any more? You know it would benefit you, it is just a hassle working it into your schedule, and for that I understand. If nothing else Dennis, you could help spread your vast storehouse of knowledge on to the new Cheif's. The CPO Acad is a refresher for alot of us but it does have alot of good information. It also works as a good place to network, hey you could promote this site to your class! That is reason enough to go isn't it! lol
I truely enjoyed it while I was there, I had been a Chief for only a year so yes it maybe did teach me more than it would you. But they can teach an old dog new tricks, trust me.
It kind of like the CCTI, don't knock it till you've been through it.
Dave

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Dave,
To answer your first question...yes.

[ETCS David Kroll]

Dennis,
I guess I also kind of look at it as a step every Chief needs to take to better themselves and help them fall into the role as a leader. Do you allready know alot of the information they will pass, of course you do. But there is a chance you will learn something, and an even better possiblity that someone will learn a thing or two from you and your experiences.
Again this is like Jo's essay about the "taste like fish". It is good? Is it bad? Does it leave a foul taste in your mouth? You won't know unless you try it.
Come on, You've got 20+ years in the CG, a college degree, and your writing a book. Share your knowledge with the new guys/gals!
Dave

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Dave,
I spent two weeks at the CPO Academy before personal issues forced me to withdraw. There was no opportunity to express my opinions during class time (in fact, it was discouraged), and after-hours interaction was generally geared towards avoiding the same topics discussed throughout the day. The school doesn't want the benefit of my experience.

The school is oriented towards the new Chief. If there has been a change, I'm not aware of it. I hardly see how team-building exercises, videos of motivational speakers, and practicing the admin that is part of every XPO's job is going to help me. I've been building teams (crews), motivating people, and writing up award recommendations for awhile, now.

Am I being arrogant? Possibly. But, would you expect me to attend another senior enlisted school if I had already attended the CPO Academy? I perceive my experience to be the equivalent to the training being offered. Prove me wrong and I'll submit an application tomorrow.

[ETCS David Kroll]

I forgot that you did go for awhile. But anyway, just like any training or class or even a conference, alot of after hours comraderie goes on. People learn from you, good or bad you will have influences on these people. I still recall people I went to class with, some bad, and some good that I still look up to. The networking is also a good thing. But at the point you are in your career, I'm not sure thats applicable.
So, are you saying you've tried the fish and didn't like the taste? Our are you honestly saying, you just don't see the importance of tasting it?
Dave

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I'd be willing to go to a service academy geared toward E-8s/E-9s. In fact, I think there should be a mandatory one. However, as it stands....

Let's see if anyone else has an opinion on the subject. CPO Academy- worthwhile or not for an E-8/E-9?

[BMCS Jerry Greer]

Wasn't there a recent message with quotas in the "other" senior enlisted academies?

The CG's view could be a bonus to a class of "others"! I believe they are open to only E8s and 9s.

I agree with both of you, it does seem that the CPOA might not be appropriate for experienced Senior Chiefs. It was a great experience for me, the networking was the best. I was a reservist wearing anchors for 1 month, it was exactly what was needed to help me with my transition to Chief.

However, maybe there does exist the need for a senior academy, in-house, of a shorter duration. This would allow all of us to "take a bite", at one time or another.

This thread is going to be a good one.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Dennis,

I received the same email. I have a couple of questions/comments for you.

1. Do you encourage (or promote positively) the Academy to new E-7's?

2. You mentioned going to an academy if there was one geared for E-8/9's. The email says that the USN academy is for E-8 or E-9. So, are you going to put in for it?

3. Do you think CG Chiefs get value from attending another services academy?

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Deane,

1. I do. I think it's a great thing for new E-7s.

2. No.

3. No. Hence, the answer for #2.

[BMCS Nick Pupo]

Dennis, I do remember us sitting on the smoking deck after class a couple of times discussing different issues while we were attending the CPO Academy. I dont remember when voicing opinions during class was discouraged. If it was then I ignored it, ask anybody who attended with us. I also remember a couple of specific times that I let my opinion be know, even if it was discouraged.

As far as your orignial question. Do I think it would be a good idea for you to attend. I dont have an opinion on that cause you know better than I what is good for you. However, if you dont attend the CPO Academy, I do recommend one of our sister service Senior Enlisted Academy's. My reason for that is this. Im going to speak on the AF-SNCO Academy. It offers not only the normal leadership subjects, but a much more indepth look at leadership styles. Additionally, the Joint Forces briefs and guest speakers were a valuable part of the class. If you havent already, take a look at the AF-SNCO Academy website and look over some of the other subjects. Last question, what do you base your opinion on that a sister service academy has no value to CG Chief's?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Nick,

Great Post.

I attended the AFSNCOA in 1999 when I made chief and have no regrets. The AF E-7/8/9's have as much to gain from our presense at their academy as we do from being there. I recommend it to anyone that is even considering it.

If anyone has questions, feel free to give me a call or email.

Deane Smith
(503) 240-9358
dcsmith@pacnorwest.uscg.mil

[MKC Christopher Longaker]

I gotta agree with Nick on this although you may want to check your calendar on this date because this is a real first in history.
The CPOA has something for everyone not everything for everyone. I guarantee you this, you will come away with something valuable. That may be that most of the things there you didn't need but you will find something there for you. When I attended my attitude was not the best and I fought most of the lessons there because I felt like 16 years of service was enough and if I hadn't learned it by I didn't need to learn it. Not so sorry to say I actually learned valuable lessons and more importantly met some really good friends both in the AF and the CG. One of the instructors at the CPOA summed up best for me. All we do is give you the gift of knowledge. You can take it, use it, put it on a shelf for later use or throw it away. That choice is yours we only offer the gift.

[ENS Craig Dente (OSC)]

I'm sure that you've said this once or twice -- you get out of it what you put into it.

The CPO Academy was an awesome experience for me. It was a five week period of mandatory self reflection, and a great opportunity to become friends with some very admirable people. I wouldn't trade my experience for anything. That being said, I think that it is tailored to children of the new guard. I couldn't see some of my old guard Chiefs from back-in-the-day tolerating the CPO Academy.

Anyone who goes to any senior enlisted leadership academy should come out with something. If they don't, that means that they weren't ready to open themselves up to the experience. Granted, there will always be a degree of silliness, especially if you've been in a senior leadership position for a long time. The curriculum encompasses so many different aspects of your professional and personal self, it is impossible to not gain anything. If you can look past the silly stuff and seek a valuable experience, you will have one. If you get stuck in the weeds, you will remain there.

If nothing else, it is an excellent opportunity to meet some outstanding Coasties.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Proud graduate of Class 110!

I completed the CPO Academy last year and they clearly stated that this is for the newer Chief with less than 2 years as a Chief.

I think the larger issue seems to be that there isn't really a consistent building block of ideas and leadership development throughout the course of the typical Coast Guardsmen's career.

We throw people into positions of leadership without really knowing if they are fully up to the task, ie: Leading Seamen, Boat Coxswains, etc. (I think this is an issue of Juniorityand is a common theme on some of our boards) We just throw people up there and give them trial by fire, if they come out with little or no scars, they must be decent leaders, right? Wrong!

I think we need to have consistent leadership building blocks throughout our careers, perhaps smaller leadership academies along the path toward advancement, so that by the time you reach the CPO level, you are not re-hashing the proper format and wording of an award recomendation. We could use the CPO Academy in a more academic fashion, build upon the theories of leadership and even joint forces studies. Maybe complete CAPSTONE Research projects that could be implemented into Coast Guard doctrine.

Some will say that we have leadership training in the form of LAMS. I went to the LAMS Roadshow course some years ago, and quite frankly had a hard time trying to digest what they threw at me in a week. Some portions of the CPO Academy are Super LAMS and that is OK. At least with the CPO Academy, you have time to digest, talk it over and get clarification during and after class.

Some will say, I hold leadership training at my unit. That's great, but can you honestly say that it is the same consistent training that goes on at a similar unit in another part of the Coast Guard? No, you can't!

I support the idea of going to the CPO Academy, I support consistent formalized leadership training throughout our careers. A classmate of mine in Class 110 said something that summed it up very well.

"Going to the CPO Academy helps me become a better person so that I can help my people become better people."

The CPO Academy is a tool, much like the lifevest or 9MM, if we train with them and use them properly, they have a much better chance of helping us out when we need them.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I agree that we need a "Building Block" approach to leadership. All we have to do is look at what the Air Force does. They have 3 mandatory leadership schools.

Airman Leadership School - E-4 and Below
Non-commisioned Officer Academy - E-5 & E-6
Senior NCO Academy - E-7 and Up

Each piggy-backs off the other. The Coast Guard needs this approach.

[BMCS Nick Pupo]

Dean, dont forget to mention that the AF now has a "Chief's" Academy. granted its only 2 weeks long but they never stop teaching or learning about leadership. The AF also has the 1st SGT's Academy which I believe is 4 weeks long. I think thats why the CG started the Gold/Silver badge class set up for the end of the year. We are following the AF in that aspect. Im currently waiting until the msg comes out to solicit for the AF-NCO Academy, Im going to suggest to my E-5's & E-6's that they put in for it.

[BMCS Gary Chalker]

[QUOTE=BMCS Dennis Endicott]The district CMC sent out an email today, pointing out that a number of E-7s and E-8s in this area have not attended the CPO Academy and encouraging them (us) to do so.QUOTE]

Dennis, the D8 CMC sent that out? :confused: I find that strange, as the instruction clearly states that is is only for E-7s, regardless of advancement date. Also, I recently submitted a STTR, had orders in Direct Access, only to be told, "No, only E7s" and orders were cancelled :eek: . D5 CMC made some calls and got it straight from MCPOG that we (E8s) can't attend, but may be able to down the road. Ironic as there were 7 billets available for that class starting 18 September. Seems to me that if billets remain unfilled for a class, an SCPO should be allowed to go. Yes, I'm sure it is geared to the boot chief; seems we could also allow others to attend if they want, and, if billets are available. ;)

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Gary,
There does seem to be some conflicting information. The email I got stated that there were 30 unfilled seats in the last class. Don't know why they wouldn't allow a senior chief to attend that wants to attend. Maybe one of the CMC's could answer this for us...

Steve, where are you buddy?

[BMCM Steve Cantrell]

Until Gary was told that he could not attend, I was not aware that a SCPO or MCPO couldn't go. However, if you read the instruction (COMDINST 1500.15F), it clearly lists the priority of who gets to go....(1) Those advanced to E-7 after January 1999 (2) E-6s above the cutoff for E-7 advancement, and (3) Those advanced to E-7 before January 1999. I guess you could argue that if you had advanced to E-7 in 1998 and made E-8 in 2001, you fall into # 3, but I don't think that it was written that way. If you read the course description, it states that the course is designed for newly advanced CPOs to help with their transition into the Chiefs community by developing the leadership, communications, and administrative skills required to become an effective CPO. Now I read that as the class is geared toward and only available to E-7s and E-6s above the cut. I know when I went back in 1997, there were a few SCPO/MCPOs in the class and they were allowed to come because there were vacant seats.

If the CPOA curriculum is geared for the new E-7s, then I would have to agree that a SCPO/MCPO should not attend. I have not read the requirements for attending another service's courses, but would have to assume that they are close to ours.

[OSCS Jimmy D. Belcher]

This goes almost like a previous thread of should a person attend CCTI? I have 18 years in and feel as I learned a whole lot more at the Academy than I did at CCTI. To me it sounds like arrogance thinking you cannot learn from others. This is just my opinion but junior people can have some very good input and have went thru experiences that you may not have been threw.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

How many ways do I need to learn how to skin a cat?

Could they give me some new approaches? Sure. Add those to the numerous ones that I've already compiled throughout the years.

The bottom line is that I do my job very well and I explore leadership issues constantly (remember where we are having this discussion).

I talk to and learn from others (junior and senior) constantly. I still don't believe that the CPO Academy, especially geared towards the new E-7, is going to add significantly to my tool bag.

And, yes, I am arrogant. It's a job requirement.

[BMCS Shawn Vredenburg]

This is going to sound incredibly arrogant, but here goes.

I went to CPO Academy almost 5 years ago. I was on my way to my first OIC job. I learned very, very little from the class. However there was one good lesson I learned about positivity. That one lesson made the five weeks worth it for me.

There was one other BMC, and a couple of MKC/S's. I don't think they learned much from the class either.

IN MY OPINION, the CPO Academy doesn't teach much that a BMC/MKC doesn't already know. I say this because of the increased leadership roles that BM/MK's are put (early in their careers) they have already learned much of the lessons. Chiefs of the other rates seemed to learn a lot, but I won't speak for them.

Another good thing about the CPO Academy is the networking you get. I still contact several Chiefs I met there.