Reserve CCTI Participants

[BMCS Dave Considine]

I had an e-mail discussion this morning about Reserve Chiefs attending CCTI. We had another Reservist drop out citing "Too busy at my civilian job to get everything done".

Anyone else out there have a solution to this problem? My solution is to have the Reserve PCPO go through the booking (or whatever you call it at your mess). They then complete the CCTI process with THE FOLLOWING GROUP. i.e. start in Fall, complete in Spring or start in SPring and complete at the Fall CCTI.

Upsides:
They have enough time to PROPERLY complete their hat boxes and books
They have enough time to visit the AD Chiefs at the units (since they have six months)
They don't place uneccesary strain ontheir civilian jobs
They get to interact with two sets of AD PCPO's
They get to visit the units on their PAID duty weekends, I would definitely be here to meet them if they came.

Downsides
The entire process goes from 5-6 weeks to 6 months.

Just my thought, I will see the MCPOCG in the near future and may bring it up with him for his thoughts.

Dave

[BMC Ralph Williams]

I think that it's a great idea.

Bottom line for me, Doesn't matter if it's 6 weeks or 6 months, just that they complete the process.

my .02

Ralph

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

The only reserves I have ever seen complete the process were on Title 10. So it was not really an issue.

I guess it all depends on when they are drilling and where. If they only drill on weekends, then meeting AD Chiefs could be difficult. Some larger units are not "Open" on the weekends. However, they would have a two week drill in that time if they time it right.

Here is a thought, start the process off so that when they do their two week drill that is the last two weeks of their CCTI. Correspond that time frame with the AD PCPO's in order to maximize that last two weeks for exposure. That would also get them some good time with their AD PCPO's.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Ron

The only problem with the two week thing is that most operational Chiefs rely on that two week period for their recerts on boats, weapons quals, etc. A reserve Chief needs more than two weeks to stay qualified, and with CCTI on top, I don't see it as possible, plus getting all the reserve Chiefs to get their two weeks at the same time is next to impossible.

Dave

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

We did it all the time in NYC. Not to be the bearer of bad news, but some of the Reservists were more active in the process than the Active Duty guys. Oh,...... before and after they were initiated.

What I would suggest is setting a standard. Implement some required PQS that everyone needs to complete. Those that complete it can go thru and those that can't, don't care enough to be initiated anyway. Hold weekly status reports with the member and their sponsor. The people that really want to go through the process will find a way. Those that don't probably spent too much time searching for excuses.

Under the where there's a will there's a way logo.......... We have an Active Chief from somewhere in CONUS that doesn't have a Mess nearby. She's going to take a couple of weeks of leave to come down here and go through the CCTI. Her brother is going to sponsor her. She already has my vote for someone who knows what it means to be a Chief.

Dave, you can do what you want, and I know that you know that........ but if you make too many concessions for people going thru the process, what kind of participation can you expect from them once they're done with it? Active Duty guys don't get to do all of the stuff during work hours, a Real Chief shouldn't expect to either, whether they're a Reservist or not. Have everyone rise to the standard that you set. You'll find some Reservist who look you in the eye and ask if that's the best you got ?

There isn't a job in the Coast Guard, Reserve or Active Duty, that doesn't give you enough time to be a Chief. And the CCTI is a voluntary process. If you don't have the time, don't go thru it. The saddest part of the whole process is that the people that don't want to go through it, are the ones that need it the most.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I'll draw wisdom from another thread and bring the "suck-it-up" factor into play. I went through as an XPO, right before an MLC Compliance visit. I went through with a reserve SKC who had just gotten off title 10 and was just getting his feet wet in his old job. It can be done, but if we get too far into this it might need to go "behind the closed door"

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Master Chief and Ken - you both have great points. I went through CCTI as a Reserve, my wife was nine months pregnant, and I went through the OIC review board one week after the CCTI (As a reserve, left the hospital to go to the district board, then returned to the hospital and picked up my wife and new daughter) and I know it can be done, BUT I also know some reserves who are the type of reserves that do it all, hold boat and LE quals, work their tail off when they are on duty etc etc etc and the CCTI nearly cost them their marriage, work etc.

A couple of these guys are also Police Officers, Environmental Police and some who just have really good jobs to support their families. They are in no way slackers. The CCTI process should be the "complete deal". Unless you can make every PCPO meeting, go to all the units, you aren't getting the best bang for the buck. I agree with Master Chief in having a PQS or some way to keep controls on what people are doing, and expel the slackers. We do use a PQS up here. I know there are as many slackers as hard working guys. Don't let the slackers ruin it for the hard chargers, who put in the effort, but would have had a more enjoyable experience and learned more by having the extra time.

I was the bull PCPO, I was called in all the time by the Chief of the Mess and had to answer up on everyone's progress. All the PCPO's kicked the ones that were slacking behind, pulled them up, and helped them complete the process. I know the reserves would have benefited more by having the extra time and working with two groups of PCPO's.

I guess because I spent three years in the Reserve I feel I know the pressure that the CCTI process, qualification demands, and all the other required things we ask of the reserves puts on them. The last few CCTI's the reserves I saw go through had books that could have been alot better, never made it to meet all the AD Chiefs, and didn't get that gleam in their eye at the dinner. Is the answer to revert them out of the process, no - make the process work for them. We as Chiefs fix problems, if the reserve Chiefs aren't going through CCTI because of the reasons I've stated, then I believe we have a problem. Asking them to "suck it up" is irresponsible of us as mentors to new Chiefs.

I will send you the PQS we use in Boston and Cape Cod that the PCPO's have to get signed off. We rely on the sponsors and the book review panel to ensure they are signed off. And yes, there were some reserve PCPO's who did a better job then some of the AD people (I like to think me), I would hold their sponsors responsible for the AD people not "sucking it up"

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dave, the CCTI almost costing someone their marriage is really disturbing me. If someone's marriage is that unstable, divorce might not be that bad of an option.

And I would say reverting someone out of the process is the answer. As Chiefs we should set and enforce the standard, ....uniformly. There should be nothing in the process that can't be completed by someone who wants to apply themselves. If they really can't do it, don't. Wait for a time in your life when you can devote yourself to the process. People that half step thru it, only get half out of it. The people who put more into the process are going to get more out of it.

Dave, the fact that you went thru the OinC review process as a reservist floors me. That's a mountain to overcome. The CCTI pales in comparison.

Me, I went thru the CCTI on crutches. I limped around the base toting a monsterous book and managed to get more signatures than the other eleven PCPOs who had twice the time to do it in and two good legs. Of course I had a better attitude and a better sponsor than they did.

You are right about the responsibility of those sponsors. When you raise your hand and say you'll sponsor someone into the Mess, keep up your end of the deal. You're molding our future.

[SKC Jaime N Austria]

I have been a reservist for the past 22 years. I went thru AD CCTI one year ago with 16 participants, 15 Active duty and me. Being an intiated Chief has been one of my life's goals. My Father was 28 years active duty Navy Senior Chief who has passed on. Since this was so important to me I decided to take unpaid leave from my civilian employer to participate in all the events. I did not miss any event.Sure it strained my Family finances, but my wife was very supportive, she comes from a military family. MY command also authorized drills to participate in CCTI, it wasn't a lot money, but it showed support of the CCTI process. I'm grateful to my LT.If you're a reservist and doing CCTI events without drill orders I beleive the CG will not cover you in the event of an accident, etc. Anyways, I do not believe there should not be a separate reserve CCTI. If the vision is there, the price is worth it.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Jaime, I am in no way saying to do a separate reserve CCTI, just an extended one over the six months for those who can't dedicate the required time for the six weeks, start with the AD group in the fall, end with the AD group in the spring. You were lucky to be able to take the unpaid leave. Most of the reserves I know up here have strained relations with their job after the Title 10 recalls after 9-11 (some were gone up to two years). Everyone's situation is different.

I just would like to see those specific Reserve Chiefs who are in a situation where they can't dedicate the time and resources during a six week period go through the CCTI and have the time available to do it right. Those reserves that can do the six week CCTI without compromising their civilian jobs and finances, all the more power to them! The ones that have put off going through may have the chance given they have extra time. I don't feel we should put new Chiefs into a "suck it up and do it" situation.

Also, how did I miss your name on the "Airmen Thread of global names??"

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I agree with Stu and Jamie.
Everyone has a busy schedule and the one’s that have gone thru the process make the time. That is what part of it is about. Learning to manage your work load with the time you have. Setting your priorities. If you’re (you’re or you referring to the one going thru the CCTI) wife is having a hard time with it then you’re not explaining the importance of what you’re doing and what it means to you. My wife is not and has not been in the military and she supported me and not once complained that I was out in the garage working on my hat box or in another state for the weekend working on my book cover, doing my community service excetera excetera. She was prod of what I had accomplished and new what it ment for me to go thru the CCTI and was really impressed with the dinner ceremony and after party. ;-). I also flew my mother up to Alaska so she could attend the dinner. It was worth it for me to spend the money to have her there. It all comes down to; Do you really what to go thru the CCTI or are you doing it just to say that you did. We as chiefs are not suppose to make excuses we are suppose to find the solution and charge forward by setting the example.
Solution to their problem
I’m sure that where ever it is that a reserve drills on the weekend they can spend a few hours after drilling and use a CG workstation and phone (shop to built a hat box) to complete some of their PQS and what ever else they need to.
They should also seek advice from their sponsor to get ideas on how they can complete the task at had.
Net work and communicate with the other PCPO’s for help and suggestion for completing the CCTI.
Don’t make excesses FIND THE SOLUTION with what time and assets you have or like Stu said do it another time when you’re not so busy? But is there ever such a time?

This also brings up another question. Is there a written guidance/instruction on what the roles and responsibilities are for the sponsor? If there is where can I find it?

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Art

I will send you the Sponsor Guidelines we use via global, I don't want to post online (nothing sensitive, just want to keep in the Mess).

In regards to your post, again I have to say that a generalization of everyone's particular situation (or motivation) is impossible. My wife was 9 months pregnant and was very supportive with me going through CCTI, it is doable, most of us have done it. We all made sacrifices to get there. There are reserves out there that simply cannot take six weeks out of their jobs, personal lives etc to do this. Is the answer to say, "Oh well, guess your screwed." To me, no. If we can accomodate these individuals by extending the CCTI process for them then let's do it. I would rather have them go through the CCTI then not bother to go through. I don't think a Reserve who says, "I can't take three days off next week to go do community service or participate in a team building exercise" is making an excuse, I think it is a reality.

Here is an e-mail I received from a reserve unitiated Chief, one who was active duty for 8-9 years, is a great Chief and someone I think should go through the CCTI sooner rather than later. I know a reserve MKC who finally went through at 31 years TIS, he wished he had done it earlier.

"This is my biggest concern, not having the time to properly go through a process that I will remember for the rest of my life.

Because I just started in my new position at ********and have to go through a lot of organizational training, I felt as though I would not have enough time to give everything I can to the process, so I put off going through this fall in order to make time for the spring. I'm not sure this makes sense, but I can tell you this, I am extremely busy at work and take it home alot.

Bad thing about me putting off until the spring is the earful I have gotten from a couple of retired Navy Senior Chiefs (one being the president of ******** business center, the other being the head of *** Security, my big big boss), and one retired CWO ****, who works at another facility in my department.

I want to be initiated. I want to have my special day, but I do not want it to cost me a job I worked extremely hard to get.

Anyways, if this can be done, I do believe more reserves would complete the process, and get more out of it."

Anyways, I think everyone knows how I feel, and I am out of ways to say the same thing. So I'll let it rest.

[SKC Jaime N Austria]

Response to Dave, ref: Lack of Global address
There are a lot of USCG reservists who do not have access to a CG workstation or have a uscg.mil email address. I have wore Coast Guard green for the past 10 years. Starting with the pre-commissioning of PSU 305, Harbor Defense Command 205, and now currently Naval Coastal Squadron 25. I did spent 3 years at ISC Portsmouth, at FOT, that's where I relearned to wear CG blue. It was a challenge just to become a member of this board since I didn't have a uscg.mil address. I had to fax my ID card to prove I was a Chief. There are 70 persons in my unit. 10% active, the rest Navy and Coast Guard reservists. There are two other CG Chiefs who are out of the loop also. Its a shame, we are always the last to know. This is one of the reasons I joined this board. Its bad enough not having a CG work station, but I'm in a Navy unit with a Coast Guard detachment, very little contact with the AD side of the Coast Guard. You know how it is, needs of the service, we are a deployable unit. Scheduled to go to the sandbox, like all CG green units.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Now I see why I missed you, hopefully you know the post I was talking about, it's in the password protected section under Airman Program. You should be able to get a global address, then use CITRIX to log in from any computer. I would look into that. There has to be an IT on here that can steer you in the right direction.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Dave, I would agree that giving reservist a little extra time but not 6 months. Just my opinion I would also agree that a case by case would have to be taken into account and a vote by the local mess. If your mess votes to give the PCPO the extra time then so be it.
I also believe that if you choose not to go thru the CCTI you should have additional PQS to complete.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Art you lost me with this

I also believe that if you choose not to go thru the CCTI you should have additional PQS to complete.

If they're not going thru the CCTI what PQS do they have ?

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Opps what I meant was complete the AQS (articles of qualifications standards) section of the CCTI book. Especially sections 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 10. I remember when I first saw these articles I thought they should be a part of the E-7 MRN.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Art, not all messes use the same PQS, or AQS or whatever. They have generally the same content, but there are numerous variations on how each mess conducts the process.

After reading the posts following my "suck-it-up" post, I felt I needed to clarify. No one is required to go through CCTI. All should wish to. If you really want to do something, you can MAKE the time for it. Anyone who thinks they don't have time for it must not have the necessary desire to complete the process and should wait until it is higher on their "to do" list.

Anyone who has not been through CCTI shouldn't know enough about it to know whether they will have time to do everything. All they need to know is that what they get out of it will be proportional to the time and effort they put in to it.

As far as stress on the home life, my wife and girls actually had a blast watching/helping me complete the process.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

If you really want to do something, you can MAKE the time for it. Anyone who thinks they don't have time for it must not have the necessary desire to complete the process and should wait until it is higher on their "to do" list.

Ken

I still believe that this is fine for Active duty, but not for Reserves, and your generalization that the Reserves that can't put aside SIX WEEKS don't have the necessary desire to do it is offensive to them to say the least. I have been on both sides of the fence. The civilian employer won't allow the flexibility that we can allow for Active Duty PCPO's. In order for the Reservist to fully participate they need to be completing all the tasks and events, meeting the other Chiefs. When will a reservist have the time, when they retire from their civilian job?

I am absolutely baffled (and saddened) by the reaction to this on this site, instead of striving to help the Reserve Chiefs attain this milestone in their career, we are telling them to "suck it up" and "make the time" or else you "don't have the desire " to do it. To me this contradicts everything we learn during a CCTI, I seem to remember a part of the Chief Petty Officer Charge that says "you have a special responsibility to your brothers (and sisters), even as they have a special responsibility to you". Maybe we all need to remember that.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Dave,

You bring up some very important points -- With the Reservists, the Coast Guard is their part-time job. So anytime we make it difficult for them with pay, training or the CCTI Process, they just throw their hands up and say, why bother?

All of the Reservists I have seen going through CCTI were on ADSW, so it never really occurred to me how someone would complete this process with IDT drills.

I'd be curious to hear from a Reservists who complete CCTI with only their IDT Drills.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Dave, when I went through there were only a few things that couldn't be taken care of nights and weekends. I also had a full time job at the time which did nopt include CCTI prep in the plan of the day. At some point during the process that person should be drilling for at least a few days to get as much of the rest done as possible.

There are usually fund-raising events scheduled (cookouts, car washes) on weekends or after work where the reserve PCPO can take care of things that require interaction with Chiefs who might not otherwise be at work after civilian 9-5 hours. I also think that any Chief worth his salt should make it a point to be available for a PCPO (reserve or active) that is devoting time after hours or weekends. If the PCPO asks in advance for some of my time, it is my duty as a Chief to be available or at least show up for those scheduled events.

If I am missing something here please clue me in.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

If I am missing something here please clue me in.

Nope, it must be me.

[BMC John Marschhauser]

I've been a reservist for 17 years now and managed to find the time to go through the CCTI process last spring. I went through it with 2 other reservists who also took the time off from work and got their family's support to successfully complete the process. We went through with 4 regulars and watched two of them drop out. Everyone has time constraints, but reservists seem to be "all grown up" with respect to time management. It kinda comes with the territory of having a full-time job and managing a Coast Guard career as well. The only concession possibly needed for reservists is let them choose spring or fall. They will all find a way to finish the job and not get fired or divorced in the process. You all understand priorities and I'm sure that you realize that we absolutely can't let our Coast Guard duties get us in too much hot water at our REAL jobs ;) .

Ask anyone if the reserves showed less initiative or drive during the process.
WE DID JUST FINE!

[BMC Daniel B. Wenger]

I just finished my CCTI last Thurseday. We had two reservists in our group. One put the time in, and one scraped by. My opinion is they can most certianly complete the process with help from the AD PCPO's and if they have the right attitude. It is a difficult process for everyone for various reasons. Having a couple reserve shipmates forced us to work harder to become a cohesive team.

~Dan

[BMC Daniel B. Wenger]

[QUOTE=BMCS Dave Considine]Art

I will send you the Sponsor Guidelines we use via global, I don't want to post online (nothing sensitive, just want to keep in the Mess).

Dave,
I don't know if you remember me, I was at NRFTC with TJ Malvesti and helped you find the DC trainer for the safety fair you hosted. Could you e-mail me the sponser guidlines as well. As a newbie and sponser for the spring, our COTM and Master Chief are looking for new ideas and improvments.

Thanks,
Dan

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Hi Dan

On there way via global - Dave

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Not to hijack this thread but I heard word that there will be some standardization throught the Coast Guard for the CCTI. So I have some questions.

1. Do I need a new thread?
2. Is this scuttlebutt or is it going to happen.
3. Is this a good idea? I like the local flavor of the CCTI process myself.

[BMCS J Lucas]

Let's say, hypothetically, that you have 6-7 reserve PCPO's that live 8 hrs from the Sector. They've requested a CCTI in the area where thay all reside away from the sector and were told "no way" by the mess. My question is, would this be a standard response CG wide?

[BMCS Dave Considine]

Unfortunately I think most of the Chiefs on here use the "suck it up" factor in regards to Reserve CCTI participants, so that will probably be the response you will get. My theory is "lets make it work for them", if it means the mess needs to travel a few times to support fellow Chiefs then it needs to happen.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

How many Chiefs in the Mess? Among other factors, I'd be looking at the cost of moving 6-7 reservists to the Mess vice a larger number to the reservist location.

Also, I'll bet you guys can time it to get orders for a drill weekend, thereby having your travel paid for. That won't be possible for the active duty Chiefs.

There is also the logistics of moving the props and equipment used for the initiation and ceremony.

And finally, inconvenience is part of the process for good reason. PCPOs are supposed to work together to resolve these difficulties.

Hypothetically speaking of course.