Weight Standards - Standard Coast Guard Wide

[BMC Candace Lewis]

I posted this in the CPO Mess part of this board and several folks said they would like to see it in the "open".

The weight standards at the CPO Academy are the SAME as in the rest of the Coast Guard.

On opening Sunday, a Tanita scale is used for initial weight and BF%. The weight is equal to the mechanical scale in acurracy. The BF% is measured by sending an electrical current through the body and is fairly accurate. There are instructions for proper hydration that come with the Tanita scale, for more accurate body fat %. The information from the Tanita scale is used for a student's Personal Wellness Profile (PWP), along with their information from a 1.5 mile run, push-ups, sit-ups, sit and reach and student done tape measurements. Additionally, if the weight (and weight only) on the Tanita scale is over the students MAW (info we obtain from their height and wrist measurements in direct access and using the charts in the Coast Guard's Weight Manual M1020.F ) we then weigh them on the mechanical scale.

The CPO Academy enforces and utilizes the SAME procedures everyone should be using. We use an accurate mechanical scale for the weight. If the student is still over their MAW, we tape them according to the CG Weight Manual, in the locker rooms (for the students privacy) with 2 staff members present. If the student exceeds body fat, they are sent home.

The procedures are not a secret. No magical scale is used. If a student's weight is in question the CPO Academy follows the Coast Guard Weight Manual. Just like everyone should.

:eek:
For anyone concerned about their weight or even near their MAW, before you go to the CPO Academy review for yourself the Coast Guard Weight Manual and YOUR Direct Access information. Unfortunately, some people's Direct Access MAW is WRONG. These people come to the Academy thinking they are within standard, but are not. :eek:

On the BF% Accuracy the only truely accurate way is to due an autopsy.

I have been on staff at the CPO Academy for the past 3 years and am looking forward to getting water beneath me again with an XPO assignment!!!! Enforcing the standards, something we must do as Chiefs, requires difficult decisions. We do not ever want to send anyone home, but we must uphold the standard.

The Chiefs mess is a powerful group / tool. If we as Chiefs do not like the standard it is not for us to "bend" the rules, but to have the initiative and backbone to create a new standard.

Candace

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

Candace,

This is a very informative post. Thanks for writing it. I think it clears up some questions that prospective students have.

R,

[AMTCM John Long]

"If a student's weight is in question the CPO Academy follows the Coast Guard Weight Manual."

Hey Candace,

Just a little confused by the above statement. In the first paragraph ("On opening Sunday") you discuss initial weight and BF%. Does everyone get checked or just the ones whose weight is in question?

Thanks.....John

[BMC Candace Lewis]

John,

Everyone gets checked.

The main reason is for information for the student's Personal Wellness Profile. A large part of our course is promoting wellness. It goes hand in hand with personal growth and awareness, which are essential to being a good leader.

One arguement I have heard from a former student, who got a lot out of the Academy, is we should keep those over weight because, we can give them the tools to improve themselves. However, it is against Coast Guard Policy for people to be sent TAD who are over their MAW. So, once we know someone is over, by having done a weigh in for the Personal Wellness Profile, we must follow the instruction / standard and send the person home.

Candace

[AMTCM John Long]

Thanks Candace. I went in the 1998 timeframe. If I remember correctly, everyone was weighed for the PWP. Over weight members were not sent home. The instructors we had would work with the individual members pointing out unhealthy lifestyles, setting up a fitness and eating program, offering encouragement, etc. Several of the instructors would stay after normal working hours and work with a few of the members.

Anyway....I don't have a problem with the weight standards being enforced for all. However I'm see a disparity with the messages coming out sending folks back home if overweight. Do you know why the CPO Academy will send a message and the other training commands do not? I'm a big advocate of one rule for everyone. Either all training commands do it or none of them do it.

To be transparent....I have thought of discussing this with the MCPOCG one of these days.

Thoughts????

Thanks for the reply....John

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

However, it is against Coast Guard Policy for people to be sent TAD who are over their MAW. So, once we know someone is over, by having done a weigh in for the Personal Wellness Profile, we must follow the instruction / standard and send the person home.

Do you know why the CPO Academy will send a message and the other training commands do not?


And a Quote from M1020.8F: (My Bolding added)

2. If a member in receipt of resident training orders is found to have been overweight and over fat as of his or her last semi-annual or subsequent screening, he or she shall not attend resident training unless a subsequent weighing confirms compliance with MAW standards (and that compliance is so documented per Paragraph 2.J).

3. If a member is found to exceed both MAW and maximum body fat percentage upon reporting to resident training:
a. and his or her probationary period (based on the provisions of Paragraphs 2.F.4 and 2.F.5) would be less than the length of time required to complete the course of instruction, he or she shall be permitted to remain at training. The member will be placed on weight probation per the provisions of Paragraph 2.F. above; however, training commands are not required to allocate time for fitness enhancing activities during the academic day for students. If the member fails to achieve his or her MAW and/or max body fat percentage within the assigned probationary period, the member shall be processed for discharge in accordance with Paragraph 2.G.
b. and his or her probationary period would be greater than the length of time required to complete the course of instruction, he or she will be immediately disenrolled with a fault disenrollment and reassigned by CGPC (if an “A” School Student) or returned to his or her unit (if a “C” School Student). The training command will send a message to the previous unit, copying Commandant (CG-122, CG-132), and the Flag Officer responsible for that unit, notifying them of the disenrollment;

Ok. Now here are my comments.

I continue to be a student of the 1020.8, dissecting and digesting each paragraph. One thing that still gets me is the confusing use of MAW and MAW Standards. MAW as we know stands for Maximum Allowable Weight. The MAW Standards stands for not only weight, but percent of body fat too. You have to be over in both to be non-compliant. So, Candace when you say "someone is over their MAW" up above, you should say "MAW Standards".

Now with that said, according to the instruction, if a person reports to school and happens to be over their MAW,(and Candace you are right, a student shouldn't be allowed to even depart their unit if they are not within MAW Standards, but you guys are there to catch the ones that do) they should be checked for percent Body Fat as you do at CPO Acad and then if they are over Body Fat and Weight, it is decision time. Once again, according to the instruction, if the person is just a few pounds over (within the timeframe of your class which is what, 4 to 6 weeks?), then they are allowed to stay, put on the program and given the chance to lose the weight. If they are more than that, it is back to your unit you go and a message should be sent by all training commands. I think one reason for the message is as a heads up to the parent unit that this person should have not been sent in the first place.

To sum it all up, Candace, I think you guys are doing a great job and it is up to each student to ensure they report within standards and ready to work, both physically and mentally. Keep it up.

John: According to the instruction, every training command should be sending a message. Let us know what Skip says...

Sorry this is long winded. Today is weigh-in day. Woo hoo!
R,

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

But wouldn't it be fair to say that if you're over your BF% you're well over your MAW. And by well over I mean more than the 4 to 6 pounds. Wouldn't they have to figure out what percentage of body fat the person would have to lose to meet the MAW standard ? And if they're within a couple of % do they get re-measured ? And if you measure people at different times of the day, couldn't you get different readings ?

How many people are sent back from each class? I'm all for enforcing the standard, but how many open seats are there in each class because the parent command is either measuring the wrong way, or not enforcing the standard period ? And what is said to these commands when the person gets sent back after a weekend flight across the country ?

[Bosn Robert Wilson (BMC)]

Chief,
Please clarify the below quote. Are you saying that you take everyones measurements at the academy regardless of what is in DA? If so, why?

Unfortunately, some people's Direct Access MAW is WRONG. These people come to the Academy thinking they are within standard, but are not.

The following is taken from CIM1020.8F:

"Since wrist size and height do not change appreciably over time, wrist size and height generally need to be determined once at the beginning of an individual's career. The Service will use this measurement as the basis for future weight screenings. If the individual screens as overweight, his or her height and wrist measurements may be verified."

The reason I ask is that over a 6 month period I was given a different MAW on 4 different occassions, one of the them being the Chiefs academy. I would hate to think that as a command I am being second guessed on how I measured my people. Thanks.

r/s,
BOSN2 Robert Wilson

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

But wouldn't it be fair to say that if you're over your BF% you're well over your MAW. And by well over I mean more than the 4 to 6 pounds. Wouldn't they have to figure out what percentage of body fat the person would have to lose to meet the MAW standard ?

Stu,

You make a good point. This would most likely be the case most of the time. I guess there are some body compositions out there where it wouldn't but from what I have seen, if you are over fat, you are way over MAW.

I think you get 1 month per %, and they are supposed to take the longer time when putting you on the program. I would be interested to see some statistics on how may people have been sent home.
R,

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Robert this has been a topic for discussion for some time here. It is not something that that CPOA decided to do on their own. Because of all people being over weight but under body fat % but looking like they could loose 30 pounds be cause a Yn3 did the screening or the numbers were fudged so they could make their weight and not have to go on the weight program then get orders to a school and low and behold the school weighs them properly and finds the truth and wont fudge the numbers and following the instruction, sent people home to try to get the commands to take a more active and responsible role in the weight program. I know exactly what your talking about I have been 72” with a G frame and a max weight of 213 and people soft until this last Monday. I go to get weighted in they tell me I have shrunk an inch and my wrist are smaller and my max weight is 205 (at the Academy my max weight was 213 and Candace was one of the instructor that did my weight in and from what I saw they do it the correct way). ALCOAST 286/06 states that screen weights are no longer valid and members will be screened everytime.

Re: Don't forget Chief's.....the screening weight is no more
________________________________________
"If I have a PG7 saying that I am under 25% body fat, is that good enough?"

No. The Pg 7 is one of the things they did away with. See ALCOAST 286/06, Para.2.E

or you can go to the new manual....COMDTINST M1020.8F

If you're over your MAW, then it's onto the tape for a body fat % check.

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

So did you shrink an inch? Who is getting it wrong? That is why I know the instruction. If someone is doing something wrong, I will point it out.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I could see people shrinking an inch over the course of their career, but I would have thought that almost everyones wrist size would have increased in 20+ years. Before I put someone on the weight program or sent them home from school, I think I'd check their heighth and wrist size again. Measure twice, cut once.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

It didn’t bother me at the time and did really have an effect on the outcome and enough of the other members were giving them a hard time and I did think my 2 cents wouldn’t have added anything to what was already being said to them. They were really trying to do it right but with out the proper training I find it hard to find them at fault. They had the instruction in had and was reading out loud each step they were doing. But that lies the problem, improper training which has been brought up in other threads.

[AMTCM John Long]

Reference body compositiopn differences.....

I just got back from some r-n-r in Kodiak. We stayed with one of our long time friends. The hubby is a PT kinda guy. He was telling me he is over on the BF% but under on the MAW. Small wrists I guess puts him over on the %

Joe,

Did you notice the screening sheets used today? The ODU allowance was only 3 lbs. I mentioned to them their screening sheet was incorrect. I should have checked the other uniform allowances but got tied up with the ODU error.

John

[BMC Mark D. Emerson]

With the MAW and BF% being used as the standard for all shouldn't the BF% get added to your profile in DA not just your MAW and current weight? Thoughts -

[BMC Candace Lewis]

Chief,
Please clarify the below quote. Are you saying that you take everyones measurements at the academy regardless of what is in DA? If so, why?



The following is taken from CIM1020.8F:

"Since wrist size and height do not change appreciably over time, wrist size and height generally need to be determined once at the beginning of an individual's career. The Service will use this measurement as the basis for future weight screenings. If the individual screens as overweight, his or her height and wrist measurements may be verified."

The reason I ask is that over a 6 month period I was given a different MAW on 4 different occassions, one of the them being the Chiefs academy. I would hate to think that as a command I am being second guessed on how I measured my people. Thanks.

r/s,
BOSN2 Robert Wilson


The information in Direct Access is unfortunatly sometimes wrong.

I do not know why someone's MAW in Direct Access would be incorrect. Last time I had to tape someone, I could not find their Direct Access reported MAW in the chart at all. Not with any height and wrist combo. All I can do is "guess" the person entering it in direct access, entered the weight the person was when they were found to be within body fat %.

We use a person's height and wrist measurements from Direct Access and compare it with the number from the chart in the weight standards.

If they are over the number allowed on the chart, we then remeasure. We do this for accurracy, not to second guess any command. Someone's career maybe at stake and we do not want an error.

One of the numbers we enter on the Tanita scale is a person's height. I have asked some members, "Why are you an inch taller in Direct Access?" Their reply was, "The YN measured us with our shoes on."


On the Incredible Shrinking Chief: Oddly enough a co-worker has shrunk an inch, due to wearing the heavy aviation helmets. I'm a little more than 5'4" and ever hopeful to grow an inch!
:)

[BMC Candace Lewis]

But wouldn't it be fair to say that if you're over your BF% you're well over your MAW. And by well over I mean more than the 4 to 6 pounds. Wouldn't they have to figure out what percentage of body fat the person would have to lose to meet the MAW standard ? And if they're within a couple of % do they get re-measured ? And if you measure people at different times of the day, couldn't you get different readings ?

How many people are sent back from each class? I'm all for enforcing the standard, but how many open seats are there in each class because the parent command is either measuring the wrong way, or not enforcing the standard period ? And what is said to these commands when the person gets sent back after a weekend flight across the country ?



There is no standard or average # for disenrollment per class. It has gone down since doing away with page 7s.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Maybe the next version of DIrect Access will have us enter the height and wrist size and do the calculations for us. That would take out some of the human error.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Can someone answer this? How true is the statement, for necks round up and for waste round down?

Also for the benefit of BMCM, during weigh ins in April, they checked my height and told me to stand up straight as I could with feet flat on the floor, then they told me I was 5'10". Maybe they were rounding up ;)

Final thought on rounding up or down. I say as soon as you introduce one innacuracy, the entire process is inaccurate. What's the difference between "fudging" the whole thing? Any rounding should be to the nearest half inch, but that's just my opinion.

[AMTCM John Long]

Can someone answer this? How true is the statement, for necks round up and for waste round down?

It true. In the manual, it's in Enclosure 4, page 1 & 2. For the neck, it's recorded up to the nearest 1/2". The waist is down to the nearest 1/2". I think that's fair. It favors the member and relieves the screener from having to cut hairs while trying to get a measurement. :)

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

They also now round your height up to the nearest inch for MAW, but the chart for % body fat still has .5 inch increments.

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

With the MAW and BF% being used as the standard for all shouldn't the BF% get added to your profile in DA not just your MAW and current weight? Thoughts -

Mark,

According to the instruction, your % BF is only checked (and recorded) if you are over your MAW. So if your MAW is below max, they don't need to check your %BF.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

There is no standard or average # for disenrollment per class. It has gone down since doing away with page 7s.

See, I would have thought that it would have gone up. I would think that by going down, it shows that more units are stopping people before they send them off to school, and making sure that they meet the written standard........

[BMC Mark D. Emerson]

The reason I brought up the BF% should be in Direct Access is for the command assignment they look at proxcimity to MAW prior to assignment. So if the BF% was there as well and you are below on MAW then that will verrify compliance.

Also I agree with Master chief, units don't want to get the nasty gram associated with sending someone over their MAW.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Mark,

I agree, that you can be below MAW and over your BF%, but nobody is ever going to check the BF% if you are under the MAW.