Smoking or non...?

[MKC Chad L. Royer]

The county I live in is trying to pass a bill to banish smoking in all public areas (bars, restaurants, office buildings). Please vote and give your opinion for better or worse.
I could strangle the people they depict at town meetings as defenseless, or scared to come out of their homes for fear of dying from cancer from second hand smoke. I have a word for those people, you have a choice; don't sit next to someone whose smoking, sit in non-smoking area. Don't take away my freedom or liberties just because you're dumb enough to go into a bar and expect people not to be smoking in there.
I look at it like this... some governments would like to make up our minds for us and lawyers and frivolous lawsuits are to blame ex. hot coffee & McDonalds (coffee is supposed to be hot), suing tobacco companies for you being ill (duh... printed right on the box), suing casino for losing your house and job because your a compulsive gambler, take responsibility for your actions don't make someone pass legislation because you don't want to be held accountable for your actions.
Do we really need words like “caution contents are HOT" on the lids of our coffee, or "do not let children play with container when empty" on plastic bags....NO S^%T people, if you do and you die then there might be one less person sucking up my BTU's.
Sorry, I get worked up over this topic and idiots in general. My favorite bumper sticker… “So many stupid people, so few comets".

I for one am a smoker, my girlfriend dislikes it, therefore I’m sure I will eventually be pestered or forced one way or the other to quit.

Chad

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

The reason common sense is longer around or being used is lawyers killed it.

Obituary of Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, by the name of common sense.

Common sense lived a long life, but died in the United States failure on the beginning of the new millennium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were lost long ago in bureaucratic red tape. He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes, factories, helping folks get the job done without fanfare and foolishness. For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits had no power over Common Sense.

He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, and that life isn’t always fair.

Common sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it’s okay to come in second.

A veteran of the industrial revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technical Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including body piercing, whole language, and “new math.” But his health declined when he became infected with the “If it only helps one person, it’s worth it” virus.

In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of well intentioned, but overbearing regulations.

He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero-tolerance policies.

Reports of a six-year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition.

It declined even further when schools had to get parental permission to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parents when a female student was pregnant or wanted an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, Churches became business, criminals received better treatment than their victims, and Federal Judges stuck their noses in everything from the Boy Scouts to professional sports.

Finally, Common Sense threw in the towel when a woman failed to realize that a steaming hot cup of coffee was hot and awarded a huge settlement.

As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic, but was kept informed of developments regarding questionable regulations, such as those for the low flow of toilets, rocking chairs, and stepladders.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.

He is survived by his two step-brothers: My rights, and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Author Unknown

[HSC Chris Fly]

Sometimes people are not smart enough to make the right decision for themself so somebody has to step in. The main reason I will never give money to the AMA (American Motorcycle Association) is because they support the right to allow certain states to NOT mandate helmet wear. This is rediculous! There has NEVER been a finding that said a helmet was detrimental to your health, quite the opposite actually. Think about someone expalinig to your family that although you died of massive head trauma that might have been prevented if you wore a helmet, it's ok becuase you were exercising your rights as an American citizen! Hmmm, there's a reson EVERY military base requires a DOD approved helmet...
OK, I'm off my rant now! :) I just feel sometimes the government must make choices the overall good of the population, you can't always count on people to do the right thing. Besides, how many times is the smoking section right next the non-smoking with only a wall of plants seperating them! Yea, that does a lot of good!
Chris, stepping off the soap box. :D

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I voted yes. Smokers in general (not All) are inconsiderate…Cigarette butts lying all over the place and they have no consideration for those that choose not to smoke. Just one example of many-- I hate when I walk out of the airport and have to walk threw a wall of smoke. If you need a smoke that bad at least walk far enough away from the entrance so that pregnant women, kids, people with health problems and people that do not smoke don’t have to breath in that nasty health damaging smoke. If smokers were a little more considerate then there would not have to be laws banning them from smoking in certain area’s. It’s just as much my right not to breathe in smoke as it is your right to puff away. When I met my wife she smoked and that was ok because it was her choice and she was considerate and smoked out side. Then she became pregnant with our first child and I gave her a choice quite smoking or I would leave and when the baby was born I would fight for custody. She doesn’t smoke anymore. In the Coast Guard I think they should ban smoking just like being over weight. It’s not healthy just like being over weight and it detracts from the appearance of the uniform.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Oh man, here we go again with the weight thing! :)

Seriously, I asked a question during an advanced LAMS class about marking someone lower in the health and fitness category if that person smoked. I was told I couldn't mark them lower. Doesn't seem right to me, all the evidence points to being a smoker as an unhealthy activity but still we are not allowed to lower marks for smokers.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Chad,

I voted Yes.

I used to smoke a pack and a half a day. Today I'm a non-smoker.

That however is irrelevant.

My point is simply this. Your poll asked, "Should they ban smoking in certain areas?" The answer to that question is yes in my opinion. But with limitations.

Although I am a non smoker, I firmly believe that the only places that the Government should ban smoking is on their OWN facility to whatever extent they deem to do so. Whether that be a base, a post office, etc..

However the Government should NOT be allowed to ban smoking on YOUR property. Meaning, in your home, your business, your land, etc.

If I OWN a restaurant and I CHOOSE to make it a smoking restaurant, then that should be my RIGHT because it is bought and paid for. The Government doesn't own my property! If you don't like my smoking restaurant, then tough GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Likewise, if I OWN a restaurant and I CHOOSE to make it a NON-smoking restaurant and you want to smoke, then tough.. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

It SHOULD BE THE RIGHT of every American to dictate what happens on their OWN personal property unless it violates the law. It SHOULD NOT BE THE RIGHT of the Government to dictate what happens on an individuals personally owned property.

Yes, I know that there are many who would disagree... but these are my thoughts.

v/r

[MKC Chad L. Royer]

Sometimes people are not smart enough to make the right decision for themself so somebody has to step in. I just feel sometimes the government must make choices the overall good of the population, you can't always count on people to do the right thing. :D

Chris,

It's called thinning the herd, the strong will always survive. Live and learn. Or you won't live long.

Chad

[MKC Chad L. Royer]

Eric,

I agree, I should have worded the question better. Your thoughts above are right on.

Chris,

Sorry, but I quoted only parts of what you said.

Chad

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

I'm not trying to "hi-jack" the thread. But on principle it is on the same lines.

I disagree with Chris. If the Government wants to make it mandatory for you to wear a helmet then when you are on the base you wear the helmet.

I personally would ALWAYS wear a helmet. But that is MY decision. If you OWN a motorcycle and you are NOT on a Government installation, then you should be able to let your hair blow in the breeze if you so choose. It might not be the brightest idea, and yes you might die.. but you die having made your OWN decision.

Where does the Governments control of the people stop? Pretty soon you won't be able to have a beer in the fridge because you might actually drink and drive.. at least it lends to the probability.

Oh wait.. that would be prohibition all over again... didn't work the first time.

What if the government decided that because STDs are an epidemic that is out of control, ALL people who choose to be intimately involved MUST BY LAW use protection. I wonder who the regulating body would be?

What if the government decided that driving over 75 mph was NEVER allowed. Therefore ALL automobile manufacturers MUST put governors on their vehicles which prevent them from doing over 75mph. Is that ok too?

Where does the madness end? Just how regulated do we allow ourselves to become and at what point do we cease as individuals to have rights because the Government deemed it in OUR BEST INTEREST to do something.

I'm sure it is in OUR BEST INTEREST to not have a Double Whopper with cheese and bacon. Maybe we should ban that too?

v/r

[BMCS Dave Considine]

I voted "yes". I am a recovering smoker who smoked for 18 years, have quit for six, and originally (right after quitting) thought they should allow people to smoke in bars etc.

Now that I have been in States where the ban is in effect, I have to go the other way and support the ban. Now that I have my sense of smell back, I notice how bad my clothes smell when I am in a place that allows smoking.

My parents live in Ireland and the ban there has been effect for over two years. I never thought they would be able to do it, as it seemed like over three quarters of the people in Ireland smoke. It is really nice now to go to a pub in Ireland and leave not smelling like an ashtray.

The local VFW also just enacted the ban. They seem to be doing fine and that was another place I thought would never be able to quit smoking inside.

Plus isn't it nice to get a breath of fresh air when you go outside to smoke your cigarette??

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

I voted YES.
Why is it "Dumb" to expect to go into a bar and not have to be around smokers? There are lots of bars like that now and getting more every day. I don't smoke but I am a club manager up here in Kodiak and that is my active duty job. I have been running the Golden Anchor for the last 3 years and I wouldn't want to work there if smoking was allowed. Even those so called non smoking areas in a resteraunt don't help. You are still breathing the same air. It's not like the smoke knows to stay on this side of the room and not go to the other side of the room.

They have put in these little "glass bus stop looking" smoking areas about 50 to 75 feet from EVERY building on base here and up here at the club most (not all) of the smokers are too lazy to walk out to it to smoke. They go right outside the front doors and light up and then when they are done they just throw their butts down on the ground or in the grass. There is a LAW that mandates no smoking inside federal buildings and no smoking within 50 feet of the entrance to a federal building but apparently the smokers don't know what that means. :mad: Besides that Milpol can't or dosn't enforce it for whatever reason. :confused: You smokers are giving yourselfs a bad name by this behavier of throwing these butts on the ground. You abuse it you loose it. I will NOT pick up ANY butts off the ground as I do not smoke and why should my janitors have to pick them up after them?

I bowl on a league in town on Tuesday nights and smoking is allowed in an area there but when I come home from bowling my wife and kids can still smell that smoke on my clothes. :(

Jayare

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I voted yes.

I have some very strong veiws on smoking. For once I will not add a lengthy post, I dont wan't to get into a pissing contest on this issue.

suffice it to say I hate smoking.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Ron, I voted yes where food is, cause I can't stand eating and tasting cigerettes, yes you can taste them even if your not smoking. Of course the smell to a non-smoker is pretty awful too. Then again, I hate cigerettes too and I will share my reasons.

1. I am allergic to prolonged exposure.

2. My mother had lung cancer from smoking.

3. I can smell a cigerette from a mile away.

I think people have a right to smoke in some places, but smoking right outside the door where there are incoming patrons is not the best choice. I also share the belief of Robert Deniro in Meet the Parents if you've seen that movie.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Is is the Government that is banning it or is it the Electorate. I believe in California and in Washington it was put to a vote and passed by the voters. To me that changes things. By the way, I voted Yes.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I voted where food was served because it was it poorly worded poll. Don't worry Chad, it took me awhile to word them right also.

And you can lower someones marks if their smoking interfers with the performance of their duties. And you can limit when and where they smoke.

As far as the government coming in to ban things........ I don't like it. They ban cigarettes and promote cigars. What there's no second hand smoke from cigars?

I think cigarettes should be ban from certain places, movie theaters, churches, restaurants, malls, anywhere I have to stand in line....... And smokers should have to pass either an IQ test or compassion test before they allowed in some other places,...... like the beaches I go to. I get that sand extinguishes the butt, why can't you get that the trash cans are where the butts go when you're done with them.

And to keep our bases butt free I think that anyone who is caught throwing a cigarette butt on the ground should get two hours of EMI for two weeks cleaning up the base, or find and report five other violators, which ever comes first. They're causing the problem, let them fix it.

Chad, you're fighting an up hill battle. You might be the most considerate smoker ever, but you're a dying breed.

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Eric Highland stole my post - it should be up to the owner. Hey, if I wanna have a Country/Western bar, is anyone going to complain? If you don't like the music, then DON'T GO! If nobody comes to my bar, then perhaps I will change to hip-hop or rock-n-roll...

It should work the same way with smoking establishments. Don't like it? Don't go.

Regarding the obituary for Common Sense thing... while it can be spun to show that idiots don't seem to know what hot coffee is, there was a whole lot more to that law suit than just that. Some suits are frivolous... that one wasn't.

In closing, if I might offer: Don't insult my intelligence with No-Smoking areas in restaurants.

They work as well as the No-Peeing areas in swimming pools.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

She put the hot coffee that she bought with her own money in between her legs and she drove over a speed bump.
And she sued for 114 million dollars.
How hot was that coffee again ?

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

And to keep our bases butt free I think that anyone who is caught throwing a cigarette butt on the ground should get two hours of EMI for two weeks cleaning up the base

NOW That, is the best dam Idea I have heard in a long time. I'm going to take that one back to our mess next week. It may not float but it will raise some eyebrows.

Hmm, it would not work, buecause at our base most of the civilians are the ones causing the problem. Civ out number Mil at ELC/Yard.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Then have someone clean up the butts and put them in a can with a little bit of water....... and leave that can in their bosses office with a note that reads.......... "Some of your people dropped these and I thought you might want them back."

[BMC Trent Spiroff]

Did someone from my work call this week and complain that I disturbed the smoking world? I about fell over when I saw this thread. Smoking was the topic of the week, as I "violated the rights of smokers" by protecting the rights of the non-smokers. People forget that there are laws and policies.

I like that another CG facility uses bus stops for smoking houses. It was an option I brought up this week and got the "yeah, whatever" look.

T.S.

[ETC (FT type) Ed Shank]

There are a few posts here I am going to comment on.

Someone brought up the helmet law. Why can't we as adults make our own choices? There are states that don't have seat belt laws. Call it the rules of attrition. The state of NH recently passed a law regarding smoking in public establishments. It is up to the owner. Why do we have to tell a pub owner who smokes he is not allowed to smoke in his own establishment?

As far as marking someone lower in the health and well being section of their marks. The block refers to weight and alchohol consumption. That is the written standard the member must be held too. If we begin to read between the lines and implement our own random policies in the marking system then the system has failed.

The government needs to stop micromanaging our lives. Without the freedom to make our own choices we are no longer a free country but a military state.

[YNC Josh Braarud]

The helmet law is a nonissue for Coasties. Read Chapter 10 of the Safety and Environmental Health Manual, COMDTINST M5100.47. If you see a Coastie wearing a "novelty" or non-DOT endorsed helmet on a motorcycle, you can book them, plain and simple.

I can't stand smoking. I have health issues from the First (or Second depending on what historian you talk to) Gulf War that leave me quite ill when exposed to cigarette smoke. As far as I'm concerned, as a veteran I have a right to a life free from that stuff. Don't even get me started on the "no smoking" sections of restaurants...usually located in a spot requiring the patrons to walk through the cancer section.

Personally, I'd like an actual line painted in a radius from the entrances of government buildings demarking the necessary distance you have to be from the door to smoke. What is it...50 feet?

I had a First Seargent in the Army that lined us up for police call, as you do. He then told all the smokers to form a second rank behind the first. He told the non-smokers to leave every cigarette butt we found and said the smokers had to pick them up instead. He stated that the smokers would have no liberty that Friday afternoon if he found one single butt on the grounds of his unit.

There was never a problem again while he was the "Top."

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Josh, you're bringing back memories of my youth........

Ed, we're not saying what the pub owner can or can't do in his house,.... but his business should have to follow all the zoning rules for the area. If he were a nudist, should he be able to walk around the restuarant or pub naked ? Laws are laws, and every society has them.

And going by the written standard, don't lower someone's marks in health and well being. But mark them accordingly in others. If you constantly have to tell a smoker to get back to work, Monitoring Work. If they smoke where they want, how well are they following command policies and procedures ? If their smoking is affecting those that they work with...... Working with Others. I'm not picking on smokers. I'm saying if their smoking is affecting their performance, there are measures in place to deal with that.

As far as helmet and seat belt laws,......... civilians can do whatever they want to in my book,..... but military people choose to give up certain choices, and those are two of them. With smoking, it is up to the individual......... until that person's personal choice starts affecting others. In a free society other people shouldn't have to live with someone else's poor choices.

[HSC Chris Fly]

As far as helmet and seat belt laws,......... until that person's personal choice starts affecting others. In a free society other people shouldn't have to live with someone else's poor choices.

This is actually one of the arguements for HAVING helmet laws, so we don't have "vegtables" hanging for years soaking up the precious few dollars we have for medicine just becuase they had their "right" to be stupid and NOT wear a helmet. I admit there are a lot of things we do that don't have laws against them, but we have to start somewhere. Besides, I'm thinking that person that wasn't about to have their freedoms trampled on and now has a wife and kids that has no money to speak of and can't make the house payment is a real civil rights pioneer! Hey at least he might be an organ doner I guess....
Chris, shutting now so I don't pi$$ off too many people! ;)

BTW- I do ride a bike and wear ATGATT (all the gear all the time).

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Chris, do you really think that we have precious few dollars for medicine ? Why should we be worried about that person's family, if they weren't ? And while were making laws, why not just make motorcycles illegal ? I understand that we have to start somewhere...... but we have to draw the line somewhere also. We don't make boaters wear ATGATT, why bikers ? How many people who think that all bikers should wear helmets, still drive down the road talking on their cellphone ? And don't give me the hands free arguement, I don't care if they have both hands on the wheel, but I do want their entire mind on the road.

[HSC Chris Fly]

Stu,
You'll get no agrument from me on the cell phone thing, people are idiots! As far as the boater analogy, you can't tell me people on a boat are in near the danger a motorcyclist is in? I agree people should wear their lifejackets, I always wear mine in my kayak. As far as the people's family, I worry about them because the rider was to STUPID to wear a helmet and now he/she has put thier family in dire straights. That helmet might have prevented a brain injury that might free up dollars for more reasearch, which might ironically be used on brain research. I realize some of these are big mights, but there are FAR more traumatic brain injuries/deaths for non-helmet wearers than helmet wearers.
Chris

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I wouldn't say that motorcyclist are at a greater risk than boaters. At least people on the bike have a license to drive. And the ocean moves a lot more than the highway. Opting between a stupid biker and a stupid boater ........... you got me.
And I could argue that the helmet might have been the thing that prevented death,..... but left the person in a vegatated state. There are bikers wearing all their safety gear, obeying every traffic law, that are killed on the highway everyday.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Sheesh Master Chief, you put me between a rock and a hard place here.

I am a militant non-smoker, yet I enjoy my personal freedom to ride my motorcycle with all of my properly approved PPE.

I guess as long as no one infringes on MY personal choice...

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

See Steve, I think that puts you in the majority. Most people don't mind the government limiting the things that other people do ..........

Look at smoking and car accidents. A lot of people attrribute a lot of deaths every year to smoking. Whether or not that was the cause I don't know. But you can't argue the accident fatalities. Now most people who don't smoke wouldn't mind if the government banned smoking altogether. But let the government try and lower the speed limit to 40mph, and watch as the voters hit the polls come election day. They could claim that lowering the speed limit would decrease accidents by 98%, and people wouldn't care. But talk about a 50 ft radius away from second hand smoke, and people applaud.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Chris how would that free up dollars? By people not wearing helmets and becoming a vegetable they have to spend money to the hospital, doctors and drug makers. If people are not buying the services how would they get money? If they chose to wear a helmet and were killed then they wouldn’t be spending an money at all. ;)
I’m all for wearing helmets and when I go riding with my kids and their just putting around of a flat track I still make them wear there protective gear. But if someone else rides without a helmet that’s their choice and they are the ones that have to deal with what ever happens. If I ride buy someone that is not wearing a helmet that doesn’t effect me or my kids but if I walk threw a smoking section to get to my no smoking section of the restaurant or threw the smoke curtain at the entrance of the airport then it does effect me.
Same with the life jacket, when I’m inside my boat I don’t wear it all the time and don’t make my kids wear them when inside the boat but when we go out on deck we all wear our life jackets and If another boat goes by without theirs on it doesn’t hurt me or my kids life the smoking does.
If you read the command philosophy on the Maple’s web site my favorite line is “Common Sense Is Authorized At All Times”. Some people just choose not to use it all the time so we have to make laws to help them out.
I agree with the cell phone issue. Drive, don’t talk on the phone. Ever watch myth busters? They did an episode on how people drive sober, just below .08 intoxicated and talking on a cell phone. They drove the same course and the results were not surprising. The cell phone talking course had the worst results.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'm not saying this to be funny,....... but yesterday I saw a guy driving his motorcycle with one hand, on the cellphone with the other,........ but he did have his novelty helmet on ........

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

I'm one of the bad guys who does smoke. I'm considerate and I clean up after myself. One of the things that annoys the crap out of me though is the trash argument. On my last 378 the XO threatened to secure smoking because he would find cigarette butts all over the place yet there was never the same threat applied to the ships store and I found plenty of candy or gum or soda cans or whatever wrappers all over the boat. As you drive or walk around where you live I bet you can find just as many plastic walmart bags or starbucks cups or anything else laying around. I guess it must be the smokers that leave all that trash laying around.
Allright enough about that issue. Yes I think certain areas should be smoke free. I never liked smoking areas in restaurants, a waste of time. Bars however is a different story. I would bet (not a ventilation guru) that you could install a ventiallation system that would draw out a majority of the smoke and it wouldn't be as noticable. This is a big difference I noticed when I visited Vegas Casino's (no I don't gamble) and the Atlantic City casino's when I got stationed here. The Casino's in Vegas have much better ventilation and it is considerably cleaner.
What's my point? They should have allowed the bar owners to install ventiallation systems that were of a standard set by the state. Instead they simply took the choice out of the hands of the owners of those places. Of course the state still allows smoking on the Casino floors. Can't loose that revenue.
Then again with all the taxes on cigarettes if they banned smoking the price of gas would have to go up. NJ made $800,142,000 off of the tax of tobacco products over the last five years. Maybe that's not a bad idea. It would make me quit and what the heck, I have a Prius.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Well Pat this is just for you. The issue with one of the cutter's that I was on, was the coffee cups. People left them everywhere. The XO was up on the bridge complaining about it one day, and threatening to keep coffee drinking within the messdeck. I told him I would help his efforts by throwing away every coffee cup I found outside the messdeck. He told me that sounded like a good idea. I told him that I would start immediately. Then I picked up his cup, that had been sitting on the bridge my whole watch and chucked it over the side. Then I smiled at him and said, there's one less we have to worry about..........

The smoking ban has gotten out of control. I've seen them banning it in public parks. Back in the day smokers used to ask if you minded if they smoked. Now they scurry away from anyone else and look for the one spot that hasn't been put off limits. And if you travel abroad you'll see the difference in our cultures.

[OSC Thomas Jackson]

Ok, here it goes. I didn't press the voting button, but I agree that there are some places that you should not be allowed to smoke in. However, if built properly, you can make smoking areas in bars and using the proper ventilation, you can force the smoke outside.

As for smoking areas outside. I do not see a problem with them as long as they are covered. I do however, disagree with making a smoker having to hike a block away to get to the smoking area, just because some whining non smoker may get a whiff of smoke blown in the wind.

I do not like seeing people throwing their butts on the ground. One reason they do it, is because there are no ashtrays or trash containers near by. Let's not forget some non-smokers who like to throw trash out of the car windows while driving down the road, or drop gum wrappers on the sidewalk while walking. This is not just a smoker issue.

As for being considerate, when I have a passenger in my truck, I being a smoker, will ask that passenger if the smoke bothers him/her before lighting up. Oh yeah, some cities have banned smoking in the city limits, which includes smoking in your car while driving down the street. This is the most anal law that I have heard of yet. Considering that the people who are complaining about the cigarette smoke are also breathing in massive amounts of chemicals from the exaust that is coming from the automobiles passing them by. If they are really that worried about the quality of the air, they should be whining more about the pollutants coming from those vehicles.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

I'm one of the bad guys who does smoke. I'm considerate and I clean up after myself. One of the things that annoys the crap out of me though is the trash argument. On my last 378 the XO threatened to secure smoking because he would find cigarette butts all over the place yet there was never the same threat applied to the ships store and I found plenty of candy or gum or soda cans or whatever wrappers all over the boat. As you drive or walk around where you live I bet you can find just as many plastic walmart bags or starbucks cups or anything else laying around. I guess it must be the smokers that leave all that trash laying around.

Then again with all the taxes on cigarettes if they banned smoking the price of gas would have to go up. NJ made $800,142,000 off of the tax of tobacco products over the last five years. Maybe that's not a bad idea. It would make me quit and what the heck, I have a Prius.

Point one on the trash issue. I agree, some people are just slobs. I will not litter and teach (taught?) the same thing to my children. I wonder how many people actually teach their kids its not okay to litter. My biggest problems with litter bugs, even worse than the cigarette smokers is those that leave dirty diapers on the ground. Those people are just pigs, disgusting pigs. BTW walking back to the Red Cedar one night with a shipmate, I observed him tossing a milk carton in a pile of trash in a ditch. I said, pick that up. He said, why? Everyone else litters, why can't I? Not a good attitude.

Second point. Okay, lets just ban cigarettes entirely. If they are so bad, just get rid of them. Not gonna happen. Because like you said, smokes are a cash cow to the politicians, they're not gonna cut off a huge chunk of tax revenue.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ray, do you really want to ban things that aren't good for you ? What ever happened to personal choices ?

I don't want to live on tofu and wheat germ.

I'd vote to ban television before I voted to ban smoking.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Talking on a cell phone while driving unless the driver had one of those star trek lookin ear pieces would be high on my list.

[HSC Chris Fly]

Talking on a cell phone while driving unless the driver had one of those star trek lookin ear pieces would be high on my list.

I think someone might have already said this but there have been studies that have found that hand's free devices don't really cut down on accidents that much. The driver is distracted by the conversation, not just the phone in thier hands.
Just what I've read,
Chris

BTW- I still think helmet laws are good! ;)

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Ray, do you really want to ban things that aren't good for you ? What ever happened to personal choices ?

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

You misinterpeted what I said. I do not advocate the banning of legal substances, no matter how bad they are health wise.

What I'm saying os that the politicians at the state and federal level will NEVER ban cigarettes, too many rax dollars at stake. Raising taxes on cigarettes is not about forcing people to stop smoking, its about putting more money in politicians hands.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Second point. Okay, lets just ban cigarettes entirely. If they are so bad, just get rid of them.

Yeah I guess I somehow misinterpreted that. I can't read sarcasm, one of the drawbacks to the written word as opposed to hearing someone speak it. I'll agree that politician have been behind the tobacco issue since it started. Big tobacco has had its lobbyists and campaign contributions going on forever. And now politicians can raise the tax as high as they want and the only ones that are going to complain...... are the smokers.

With the hands free craze, I'm surprized no one ever made the push to stop drivers from smoking.

A smoke free city ? That ridiculous. I wonder if they ban cookouts and BBQ grills ?

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

[QUOTE=HSC Chris Fly]I think someone might have already said this but there have been studies that have found that hand's free devices don't really cut down on accidents that much. The driver is distracted by the conversation, not just the phone in thier hands.
Just what I've read,
Chris

At least they have the chance for two hands on the wheel. To me it's no different that having a passenger in the car and having a conversation. Either way driving and cell phones are a danger. I was just providing an option.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

[QUOTE=BMCM Stuart S. Slesh][

With the hands free craze, I'm surprized no one ever made the push to stop drivers from smoking.



Don't always need a hand available to smoke. With out a hands free headset you have to hold on to the cell phone. I seem to notice that everyone that talks on a cell phone while driving seeks to cock their head towards the hand that holds the phone. I more cases than not those folks also seem to drive towards that side of the road then suddenly jerk back to the center of the lane often over compensating.
An intersting point about this is the fact that many blue suiters require cell phones for their jobs. Guess we need to look at the hands free star trek headsets as an option for them. Hmmm. (not trying to hyjack anything)

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Ban is such a terrible word, lets just tax the heck out of em and that will make people quit. Yeah OK, that stopped prohibition too right. I can just see all the cig trucks getting hijacked more now. It use to be common practice in the Coast Guard that if you walked past a piece of trash, you would stop and pick it up. But now it's the I didn't put it there mentality, or I don't smoke, I'm not going to pick up cigarette butts. By golley if I'm your Chief, you can put gloves on for all I care to take care of our Base and our Coast Guard, and I can assure you that you will be picking up what ever garbage is on the ground, if that is the tasking, and chances are that I will be right there beside you picking up after everyone else that wasn't responsible enough to put it in it's rightful place. I tend to follow the belief that if you dislike what your watching on TV, don't watch it, change the channel. Likewise if your in a smoking establishment, you must be there for a reason. If your health meant that much to you, you would leave and go elsewhere. I have an novel idea, how about we let each other live our own lives, and not be so bothered with everyone elses.

[MKC David Rosati]

I might be a day late and a dollar short but I voted yes. In my opinion, smoking should be banned in ALL areas. Smokers don't even like smoke, how many of you have noticed people chain smoking in their cars with their windows up?????...........how about none. If you like to smoke then you should like to smell it as well so keep your windows up and your butts in the ash trays.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dave, you need to travel up north....... people have their windows up all winter long. They only roll them down to flick the butt in the street.

[ETC Cris A. Seybold]

This is actually one of the arguements for HAVING helmet laws, so we don't have "vegtables" hanging for years soaking up the precious few dollars we have for medicine just becuase they had their "right" to be stupid and NOT wear a helmet. I admit there are a lot of things we do that don't have laws against them, but we have to start somewhere. Besides, I'm thinking that person that wasn't about to have their freedoms trampled on and now has a wife and kids that has no money to speak of and can't make the house payment is a real civil rights pioneer! Hey at least he might be an organ doner I guess....

Chris, shutting now so I don't pi$$ off too many people!



BTW- I do ride a bike and wear ATGATT (all the gear all the time).



From: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/TBI_in_US_04/TBI%20in%20the%20US_Jan_2006.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/TBI_in_US_04/TBI%20in%20the%20US_Jan_2006.pdf)



Out of 16,800 Motor Vehicle deaths from Traumatic Brain Injury (TMI), only 903 where injury to a motorcyclist. In comparison 8,819 where to occupants of cars, 365 were bicyclists, 1,998 were pedestrians. Obviously NOT wearing a helmet increases the chance of TMI and/or the severity but the leading cause of TMI is falls. Falls account for 28% of ER visits involving TMI, *all* motor vehicle accidents account for 20%. Statistically speaking we would have a much better reduction in the number and severity of TMIs by requiring occupants of cars and pedestrians to wear helmets. If we reduced these numbers by 80% (the estimated number of motorcyclists that choose to wear helmets when not required by law) we would save a lot more money than by arbitrarily selecting motorcyclist to wear helmets.



I used to ride all the time, I always wore my helmet and leathers, but I don't see a statistically significant reduction in medical costs by requiring helmet use for motorcyclists.

[MSTC SJ Natale]

Out of 16,800 Motor Vehicle deaths from Traumatic Brain Injury (TMI), only 903 where injury to a motorcyclist

Not that this really pertains to smoking but that is a very misleading statement. I would consider a motorcycle accident to be different or at least should be categorized differently than "motor vehicle" (automobile) accident.

I wonder out of all motorcycle accidents what the differance in injuries received is between wearing or not wearing a helmet. Now THAT would be a good stat to have.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

Well I'm alive today because of wearing a helmet. I was riding my motorcycle home from work back on Aug 2nd 1991 and I was stopped in traffic waiting to turn left into my driveway when a lady was bending down to light her cigerette and wasn't watching the road and she rear-ended me doing 45 miles an hour. An eyewitness said I did 3 backwards flips over her car and landed on my head before sliding and skidding in the road before I came to a stop. That helmet saved my life. One of the reasons I no longer ride a motorcycle to this day. Too many other STUPID drivers on the road that don't watch out for motorcyclests.

You see I got some cigerette stuff and motorcycling stuff in there so I couldn't be accused of hi-jacking the thread. :D

Jayare

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Wow Jayare! I can't imagine. Were you seriously hurt? (Might sound like a stupid question... but obviously you are still in the service.)

BTW I'm glad you are ok!

v/r

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Wow, Reverse 3 somersalts, Degree of Difficulty 3.3.

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

I had a severe case of whiplash and wore a neck brace for about a month. I hit my elbow on the pavement and it swelled up like a golfball was under the skin and had a bruise about the size of a frisbe for a month also. Road rash on my knees and both of my rear pockets were ripped. I had my wallet in my right pocket and my can of Copenhagen in the left pocket so those two items saved me from roadrash on my backside. Messed up my back again too. Exactly 1 year before on Aug 2nd 1990 I threw my back out on a SAR case. We had a boat taking on water with about 9 people in it and 4 were kids. We rescued them and took the boat in tow while I was on their boat dewatering with the P1 pump. Pulling that cord in that tight space threw my back out the first time.

My back still flares up every now and again. I have a collapsed disk at L-5 and every once in a while I get bone on bone from those 2 vertibres touching each other and it is excrusiating at times.

Jayare

[ETC (FT type) Ed Shank]

Not trying to hijack the thread from smoking to helmets, but there are arguments both ways. I went up and over on the highway (a wheelie that goes bad) at about 80mph. I was wearing jeans, a riding jacket, and gloves and boots. The only reason I had a jacket on is because it was chilly or I would have been in my t-shirt. Yes I had road rash that hurt like an sob, but I walked away, picked the bike up and hobbled it home. Went to the work the next day, never went to medical, never lost time. The exception? Yes I was. I think if people stepped back and looked at it from a reasonable standpoint without leaning to extremes, compromises can be reached. I think a combination of NH, ME and FL law would make the most sense. NH a helmet is required under 18. ME, novice riders (less the one year of having there license) are required to wear a helmet. FL, you have to carry $20,000 (I think I don't remember the exact number) of personal injury insurance to legally ride without a helmet.

I realize the military protects a democracy, it does not practice it, but let's let people live there lives. Let them make the choices. Jogging was supposed to be the bomb in the 80's, then they realized it might be bad for your joints, should we outlaw jogging because you might get hurt? Let's stop playing basketball at lunch, a lot of people get hurt doing that...or make them play in football pads with helmets and hockey gloves. Stuff happens, that's the way it is. Choose your life and let other people choose theirs. No one on this board, or anywhere for that matter, can live my life for me. They are my choices, and I have to accept the consequences of those choices.

Anyone can quit smoking, it takes a real man to face cancer. (No offense, although I am sure someone will take it, to anyone affected by, suffering from, directly related to or has witnessed cancer...it's a joke move on)

[CWO Tony Marinelli (QMCS)]

Even though I'm all for personal choice and freedom to endanger one's self in all cases (subject, of course, to the conditions of one's insurers), I voted YES, specifically to "they" in "certain places".

If "they" is a government entity and "certain places" is a public place where non-smokers should expect to be able to breathe clean air and not stink of smoke (or suffer any other direct befoulment by others), then they should, because smoke from tobacco is, fundamentally, air pollution and public areas should be as free from hazards as they can be. Smokers, like other hazardous emissions, should be well ventilated at all times.

If "they" is a private company and "certain places" is within their own property, then they should if they make the choice to do so - and not by force of government. If an employee doesn't want to be in a smoke-filled romm he or she should seek employment elsewhere.

If "they" is a homeowner and ""certain places" is his or her home, backyard or car, same thing. If the innocent children are a concern, there's little that can be done there unless tobacco smoke is determined to be a form of child abuse.

Smoke from tobacco affects everybody within proximity of a smoker. Should I be able to fling my feces at people just because I can buy toilet paper at the store? I'd get my ass kicked.

Incidentally, ex-smoker since 2003. Ain't we the worst?