Is this site getting too silly????

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

That was a question asked of me by one of the forum members in an email, recently.

Yes, it has. But, not because you all don't have great topics to discuss or the brass to discuss them. It's getting silly because you discuss all of your good stuff "behind the closed door."

I didn't like the idea of a password protected thread to begin with. That's no secret. But, there isn't one topic "behind the closed door" that couldn't be explored in the open forum. You can't build up heat when you keep smothering the flames.

The second best thing about this forum is that junior enlisted and officers were reading it almost as often as the participating Chiefs. They did so, because we were discussing topics that they could only whisper and wonder about.

I'm not saying you shouldn't talk about motorcycles and hunting trips, or rib each other for an occassional blunder. But, that kind of information doesn't really aid a LTJG or SA who is still discovering what kind of "heart" this service has. Show them your passion...show them your courage...show them their heart.

Oh! The best thing about this forum? You get to hear Chiefs talking to Chiefs like Chiefs...at least you used to.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I thought we voted to not let in the Ret' guys.

:D

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Very true Dennis, good to have you back, you are missed. As for moving things behind the closed door, I'll take the hit for that one. But I'll think twice before doing it again, and I'll refer people who request it to your last post.

Ron, the vote went the other way, and if your post was just for a laugh, you missed your point with me. If your looking for an example of irony, Dennis started this site.... and most recently a post about if this site is getting silly..... and you responded to that post by asking if retirees should post here.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I was initially going to PM Ron, but the more I typed and thought about the jist of BMCS Endicotts post the more I thought I should post it in the open so here it is: (cut and pasted from my own PM)

I totally see the humor in your post about retirees and I didn't think it was disrespectful, I thought it was light hearted humor geared toward someone you respect and admire. I have told people this before, if I am messing with you or giving you a hard time, it's cause I like you, if I didn't like you, I wouldn't mess with you at all.

I will admit cracking a joke in a thread that is asking if we have gotten silly, well that's borderline JP3 :D

Now, in trying to keep with the spirit and wishes of our current moderators or admin as we affectionately know them, let me get back on track.

I will have to agree with BMCS that the best topics are being discussed behind closed doors, but I can't say that I agree that there should not be a "behind closed door." I think it's along the lines of keeping everyone happy cause much like my joke (and I promise it's the best analogy I could come up with) some people don't have a problem with it and some do. Some people would find it perfectly acceptable to have a heated debate between Chiefs out in the open and then there are others who would prefer that we all agreed in public holding hands singing kumbaya and only disagreed in private. My true thoughts are that those same people wish we all agreed in public, wish we agreed on everything all the time are the ones responsible in the accountability thread (see part about feel good society where no ones feelings get hurt). That's just my opinion though. Anyway, I hope I was able to offer some input on your thread BMCS. I will try to add some more meaningful posts to this site.

Lastly, I wanted to congratulate you on your 700th post and a fine 700th post it was!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

And JP3, if Ron had wanted to add a joke into his post I would have been okay with that, but there was no substance to his post. It was posting simply for the joke. Dennis had some fairly important issues that he brought up , and they shouldn't just be passed off by replying with a joke.
And just so Ron doesn't feel alone....... that wasn't the first time you posted on this thread either. Your first post lacked all substance. You admitted that you had no comment, but you wanted to congratulate Dennis on his 700th post. And then you told the rest of us to try and keep the thread on topic, ....though you clearly hadn't. And you deleted your first post....... but not before it was read by at least one person.
The other day I changed the parameters of people editing their own posts. I mispell words all the time. I re-edit my own posts because sometimes after I read them I see where I typed faster than I read. I also read what I thought I typed as opposed to what I actually did. Those days are gone. You now have a couple of minutes to edit your post and then we all live with. I don't care about the typos. What I wanted to eliminate was the ability of people to change what they said. I don't want people to be able to start something and then edit their post so they can say they never said that. It's a discussion board, so discuss something. If you type it, you said it. If you wanted to say it under your breath, don't put it to paper. Once you type it here, it becomes your thought.
And we've come full circle with this topic. This board was designed so people could see CG Chiefs interacting with each other. It was designed to solicit your opinions. If your not willing to express them here, amidst other Chiefs, how willing are you to express them anywhere outside of an actual Mess ?

[PACS Steve Carleton]

I love the heated discussions about policy, regulations etc. We already know people read what we put here.

That said, the purpose of the Closed Door in my mind is to have discussions where people can seek guidance, similar to a "physical" Mess. Describe a problem (not necessarily names) and throw it out there.

When the door is open, we are unified, we don't have to like it, we just have to execute!

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

It was meant as a jab, hence the :D at the end of the post.
Dennis, no offense, I think you may know that.

Oh, and Yes I know Dennis started the site. I called him a couple of times early on to ask some questions.

I like the board, and I voted to let retired members post. I think they can have a very positive impact here.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Ron...I don't think that anyone would debate that your post was a jab. Your missing the point. Dennis made a well-thought out post about what this board means to him and what it should mean to every Chief...

So, then the first post after this one is your "Jab" post. I guess I just don't understand the point of doing that. I get that we poke fun at one another, but can't we not poke fun also? At least after a post like this?

As far as the reference to the "Jab" smilie...that thing just looks like a garbage can lid to me...perception is reality...it's time to close the lid on the garbage can...

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

And JP3, if Ron had wanted to add a joke into his post I would have been okay with that, but there was no substance to his post. It was posting simply for the joke. Dennis had some fairly important issues that he brought up , and they shouldn't just be passed off by replying with a joke.


[.02] When I read the post/joke, it took all of 3 seconds to do so, brought a quick smile to my lips because I "got" it and then I moved to the next post. Not a big deal. The post/joke took nothing away from what Dennis was saying, in my opinion. [/.02]

R,

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, you're making my point for me..... I got the joke also..... the funniest part of it is that Dennis was the most adament about wanting to keep the board limited to active duty Chiefs........... but now the thread has become about the joke/jab instead of what Dennis was talking about. This is an example of how a thread gets hi-jacked.


Edited to add
and I have already trained my eyes to the point where I don't even see those smiley faces......

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I smiled at the joke. But, back to my point...

Quit talking about hurting my feelings and get on with some heated discussions. You don't need to make friends, you need to make waves.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Wow,

I'm almost at a loss for words. Ok, thats not really true.

I will say this. "Is the site getting to silly", yes, which is exactly why I posted what I did. But the beauty of it is you all started a nice little debate. Hmm, imagine that, a good debate about reading to much into something from one little sarcastic remark. I really think that is the funny part.

Every topic here does not have to be 100% serious. And I read most of them and see that most are serious, with a comment here or there. Sometimes it is good to have a few light hearted comments mixed in with things. I see no harm in it. Dennis got it, a few others did also. I posted exactly what I did to see a few things.
1) Who would say something about the RET comment.
2) Who would say it is a derailment of the thread.

I almost did not post it, I read it a few times, added more stuff then took it back off. I thought it might be interesting to see how it paned out. Some read it, smirked and moved on. Some didn’t. I think it is interesting. I got a lot more than I expected.

nice

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Ron...I want to make sure I'm tracking here. Are you saying that the reason you posted the "Jab" was so that you could have your own little secret poll about how people would respond? Is that what you're saying or am I confused?

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

More or less, yes. I wanted to post a quick jab. I thought that it might be short, and typed up a bunch of defending comments and a few other ideas. And then thought, why am I defending myself? Do I really need to, so, I took it out and left it as a pointless little jab that truly had no meaning to the thread.

Most if not all of the active posting members know how the vote turned out and would get the jab and understand it was just that. But I did not realize that Stu would feel the way he did. So, Ok, that’s fine. The board has had some very, hmm, vocal, threads. But all the posts that continued on other topics still went on and were still good reads. In my opinion the forum as a whole has not suffered. We have all learned something from this and other threads.

I tend to not take things to seriously. That does not mean that I can’t, I chose not to. I have enough stresses in my life with four women in my house, one of them a Teen. “sigh” If I don’t use humor to help get through the day then I would truly snap. One of my favorite sayings is “It is the little things in life”. Could be a little smile as you walk by someone, or a polite “Hello” to a stranger. I little jab at a coworker for a quick laugh or a good debate that is not a drawn out argument. However, we have said this before and I know that I have, “You can’t read someone’s facial expressions or get the inflections in their voice from reading their words”. I suck at writing, and I know that my grammar is not the best. Hell if it was not for Spell checker you all would think my 15 year old was typing this. I use humor and sarcasm to much, I know that. However, that is me and I don’t hurt anyone or attack anyone so why should I change. I can be serious when I need to.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Edit
I would like to say that the post that Stu made on the "Sands of time" thread which was quickly followed by Eric were two of the best, most entertaining posts I have read. Both, good, and to the point of that thread and still humorous. I had originaly PM'd Eric and thought is was in keeping with this topic and added this here.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I thought we voted to not let in the Ret guys.

:D

39 letters, 11 words, serious or not Ron has a right to post whatever the hell he want's to because after all he has an equal voice here. I already stated I found it a little ironic that he would crack a joke on a thread that asks are we getting silly, but he proved a point if not only to himself but to a few others that they take things way too seriously. I think Ron and I have similar personalities and maybe part of that comes from the living with 4 woman (in my case 1 woman and 3 little girls). Who knows?

Now as to why I deleted my post congratulating BMCS E, I guess I kinda wanted to see what direction the thread went in before I started posting. I am glad that one or two people got to read it in the <5 mins I had it posted, it shows me that I have a good following. Now that the thread has taken its own direction without my influence, I will answer the question with a little more detail. I do not believe we have gotten too silly, I think we have gotten too sensetive and to further reiterate what Ron said about not hearing voice or seeing expression that's ssssensssative with long s's and a feminine tone. See, that to me was funny but I am sure it won't be to a few. Still wouldn't consider it offensive. And just to show I am and can be sensetive, I cried while watching "Million Dollar Baby." Ok, it was more a case of my contacts bothering me :p

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

The last two posts related the balance of estrogen vs testosterone in their homes to their personalities. I have a wife, 2 teenage daughters and a 12 year old boy. In order to find a little more "balance" in my house, I bought a male dog. My wife had him neutered. So much for balance. So what does that do for my personality?
Silly enough?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ron, I'm all about adding humor, it is a sterling quality of a Chief, and added into the mix, I almost always see its place. But your comment wasn't in the mix. It was the first response to a well thought out post.
And I got the joke, but didn't think it was funny. The joke was off the mark becasue the vote went the other way. I just got done defending that vote on the other site, and when I saw your post, I thought, here we go again. If you had asked Dennis if it was too late to change your vote about letting retirees in, I would have felt different. And if you would have put anything else in the post, I would have felt differently. But to just take the jab.......

I view these threads just like a conversation. If people were in the Mess and talking about an issue, and someone else kept butting in just to crack a joke..... sooner or later you would stare the person down, and tell them to shut up. Or you'd take your conversation somewhere else and wouldn't invite them. And when they walked back over to you the conversation would stop again. I don't want the conversation to stop. I don't want the debates to stop. I don't even want the jabs to stop. ..... But if all that someone brings to the table are the jabs, .........I'd rather they went somewhere else.

Your last post shows that you have so much more to offer us. I'd rather hear that. You want to spark conversation, I want to hear that. You want to pick on Dennis, I want to hear that. You want to defend your actions, I want to hear that. But just the jabs...... don't need it.

Not silly Jim, sad....... sad for you ......sadder for the dog.

[BMC John Phillips III]

The last two posts related the balance of estrogen vs testosterone in their homes to their personalities. I have a wife, 2 teenage daughters and a 12 year old boy. In order to find a little more "balance" in my house, I bought a male dog. My wife had him neutered. So much for balance. So what does that do for my personality?
Silly enough?

Holy cow, that was funny, I laughed pretty good I promise. See the humor I find in that is that I had a son (4th child) and then bought a male dog to bring more balance. I did not allow for the dog to be neutered though, that's the part that I found really funny.

Now if someone else didn't find that funny that is their right and there wasn't too much reading for them to get over it. If anyone has a right to be upset with your silly reply, it's BMCS Endicott, but since your post was in reference to Ron's and mine, and BMCS didn't take offense to those, he shouldn't with yours.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

And John, everyone involved in the conversation has the right to be upset with you. I think that there are times when you look to see how far off track you can take something and still try and justify it.
I know that you think the originator of a thread has ownership of it, but you're......wait for it......you're wrong. Once the thread is posted it becomes public property. We have a responsibility to the originator to answer their question, but the thread takes of a life of its own. As long as the following posts can be related to the topic, everyone involved in the conversation haqs ownership of it. But it's not a game, it's not seven degrees of seperation. You don't have to take any possible outshoot that pops up.
Jim was making an observation about the thread and relating it to his own personal experience ............ your whole post relates to that and then you try to work something else into it.
And again you create an issue and want other people to get over it. You should be able to do anything you want, and everyone else should just deal with it.
You throw off the balance of the conservation. That's not on Dennis, it's on me, I was talking. I become part of the converstion so it now belong to me as much as iot belongs to Dennis, or anyone else who's actually in the conversation.
Ron explained that he was trying to do something with his jab. I'm all for talking about that. But if we're going to see how many people spade or nueter their pets, let's start another thread.

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

I don't know you beyond your 1,322 posts, but I think you are the one making an issue of nothing. This wasn't a big deal to most (?) people on this board, but you keep bringing it around to making it an issue. Dennis didn't seem to find it to be an issue, why do you have to.

I too believe that some people here are way too sensitive. It takes a hard skin to live life and play the boards. Sometimes I just shake my head and move on when things go awry here on these boards.

I believe that all threads have the potential to grow, evolve and mutate. It is just like the flow of conversation anywhere, be it the bridge, the cubicle, the mess or the bar. It happens. Let it flow.

I don't want to use the N word. (No, it is the four letter one with a Z in it), but a Moderator should use moderation, you are not an excessiveator.

Too silly? Sometimes, but so is life.

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Is the board getting too silly? Probably... but it is par for the course for ANY discussion board. When I joined, it was WAY too serious. In a while, it will stop being "silly" and get way to serious again. It's a pendulum thing - and swings both ways.

If a person doesn't like it right now - check in in a month - as I am sure it will have begun to swing back to the serious side.

And Master Chief Slesh, I have to agree with some others... I think you are taking the joke way to seriously. I laughed my butt off, considering the source, the target of the comment, the target's stance on the comment's topic, and the incongruousness of the OP and the comment. It was giggle-worthy.

This is turning out to be just like a regular Mess. Things get serious, things get silly, things get contentious and things get us all lined up, side by side to stand together...

It's life! ;)

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Joe, Dennis didn't have a problem with the joke, but he did want to return to the subject.

As for me being the "one" with the problem, I see it as me being the one posting my objections. It's good to see that so many people think that everyone's voice should be heard, but I should keep mine to myself.

I agree that all threads can grow, evolve and mutate,..... but you have to let them. If I hadn't responded to Ron's post do you think someone else would have ? Or would this thread have died after one response ?

Everybody keeps throwing out thick skinned and sensitive....... the only thing on me that's thicker than my skin is my skull, and I'm being sensitive to the needs of others. I moved those threads behind the closed door at the request of other people. I have 1300+ posts because I respond to the posts of other people. It's a discussion board, and I'm here to discuss.

Jerald, time to wind your calander....... the board has been getting sillier for more than a month, and if all the serious minded people are chased off, only the silly posters remain.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I'm all for talking about that. But if we're going to see how many people spade or nueter their pets, let's start another thread.

You may have been serious or taking a jab here but that is dam funny.

Joe, JP3, that is exactly how I feel. The flow of any conversation will change as different points are brought up. That whole thread could easly now turn into a family thing. Who has what and how many animals, kids, and all kinds of stuff. Then I could easly see it turning into a I hate it when teen's do this kind of topic. (hmm, I might have to start that thread). Stu, you would probably hate me in a mess, Most of the time I'm the one that will sit there and listen to folks and toss in a sarcastic remark to cool things down for a laugh. Then I'll chime in my .2 cents now that I have their attention. Sometimes not. Funny thing is, as I think back on it, I'm the Sec for our local CPOA, and I don't really take a bunch of jabs. That I take seriously, or maybe because I'm to busy writing down what is going on I dont have time to think about jokes. :D
Dam, I'll have to work on that :eek:

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ron, I wouldn't have a problem with you in my Mess, as long as you're adding your two cents. If your two cents is just the sarcasist remarks and jokes, I'd rather you kept them to yourself. There is a time and a place for everything. But I would rather have someone in the Mess who said anything, than the people who sit there and say nothing.

Ron, I've read every post you've ever written here........ I've only ever had a problem with one of them. Jerald, that last line was addressed to Ron in case you missed it.

And in the quote you used I was being serious, that's just the way I talk. I type like I talk. I don't care what people talk about on these boards, but if you're going to go that far from the original topic, start another thread.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Stu, you said that this board has been silly for a month now. Well, how many serious threads have been started in that month? There have been a few behind closed doors. Maybe 2 of which should be there. I think that they have been serious. In order to maintain serious discussion, we need to have serious topics to discuss. We need to have serious threads started. We need to quit bellyaching about people starting silly threads and going downhill from there. We need to "lead from the front" and quit pushing from behind.
Now those are my serious thoughts for the day.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jim, I think that some of us will always be more serious than others. I haven't seen one person who posts often who hasn't added humor into their posts. But there have been serious threads that have started and been shifted almost instantly.
And where you're saying that the serious threads are started behind the closed door..... that was Dennis's point. Maybe someone should start them again out here. I wouldn't move them because some of the people might not have said the same thing if it were in the open. Other people are going to hear me repeat myself.

And I've been getting complains for a while now, and unlike the Nazi some people are pegging me for, I'm trying to appease everyone. Since I can't do that, I'm just going to give Dennis what he was looking for.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

From what I have seen so far, (and I have not had the time to read every post in every thread), this site is not like Fred’s Place (thank G*d!) I have yet to see the sort of backbiting, the downright meanness that inhabits the mindset of the posters over at that site. I used to be a regular at F. P. that is until it got to be so negative and just so outrageous. And, there is no way that a poster could ever be verified as serving our having served in any capacity, BanCCTI is one good example.

“Our” site is supposed to bring something to each other that we are supposed to learn from, maybe have fun in the process. Educational, Informational and Humorational are important traits that we should never deviate from. But when negativity happens (calling no one in particular a “fat slob” (I am guilty of that and for that I apologize)) we lose something. Maybe someone looks at the site, does not join or post because he or she gets the idea that there is nothing different between CGChiefs and Fred’s Place.

No the site is not getting too silly, in fact it has gotten much better since the Admin folks created a separate thread for personal stuff like football, jokes and the like. There is a place for seriousness and a place for silliness. Another thing, some people in this world are like my daughter. When kidded by someone she takes it personally because she doesn't realize that the person is not being mean, just trying to have a little fun with her.

Lastly, if someone needs to be corrected that should be done behind closed doors either on the password protected thread, or by a private message or e-mail. Airing our dirty laundry in public is not a good thing.

Something to think about.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ray I was with you right up until the end. If someone did something that I "knew" was completely inappropriate I would edit it, or delete it and then contact them privately.
But whose call is what's inappropriate ? In order to debate something you need to have people on different sides of the issue. One side is always going to be correcting the other side. Conflict can be a good thing. Confrontation, a good thing. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are good things. Exercising those are a good thing.
People need to see that confrontation is the only thing that ever resolves an issue. If everyone always agreed on everything, there would be nothing to resolve.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Stu, carfull there, that Freedom of speach thing is a dangerous area for any military person. We have to be mindfull of what we say, and I know that is not what you meant. We have freedom of speach, but we have guidlines on what we can and cant do. Our names, rank and association with the Coast Guard are clear on this site and as such you might as well be in uniform. Once again I know you know that but for those that would want to jump on Stu for that "Freedom of Speach" comment I wanted to nip in the bud. (JP3 :D jab, jab )


Edit...
For those of you that can see the little diamond with a question mark and don't know what they are; that happens when you type up your comments in word. Every little ' or " you use does not convert over when pasted back in to the reply block on the forum.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Debate is one thing, open hostility is another. I would never try to stifle someone's attempt at debate, even if they make a point that in my opinion is totally irrelevant and off the wall. There might be value in it somewhere for someone.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

From what I have seen so far, (and I have not had the time to read every post in every thread), this site is not like Fred’s Place (thank G*d!) I have yet to see the sort of backbiting, the downright meanness that inhabits the mindset of the posters over at that site.

Raymond...think of it this way...We're closer today to being like Freds Place than we were 2 years ago. There are more "Silly" posts today than there were 2 years ago. There are more "Jabs" today than there was 2 years ago. Where will we be in 2 more years...or 5 more years. It's just something to think about.

I know that it will never get out-of-control here because we're Chiefs and log in under our real names/titles. But, let's remember that it's up to all of us to protect the integrity of this board.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ron, everyone has to watch what they say. There are libel and deframation of character cases being brought forth in the civilian world all the time. Public figurine have their lives changed by what they say all the time.... ask Mel.
As service members our freedoms amight be more limited.......
And you can't nip JP3 in the bud because he takes it as an invitation........ trust me.

And Ray I wouldn't stifle anyone's attempt at debate either. But I would stifle the unwarranted silliness. And I will continue to edit out the truely inappropriate things that I see. If people wants to debate my definition of truely inappropriate, I'm willing to do that also. But be forewarned, if I'm saying that something is truely inappropriate........... it is. I don't run around half-cocked looking for something to shoot at. I don't mind the open hostility,...... if it's directed at me, or someone whose asking for it. But the open hostility has already claimed one member. And when the open hostility was on another site, I responded to it. I don't like seeing that open hostility aimed at someone or something that can't or won't defend itself.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

At the risk of getting too sidetracked, I have a question. I was looking at the various "forums" today and saw a huge volume of threads. Many of which have not had any posts in quite a while. I was wondering how long something needs to lie before it is moved into the archive forum?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'll take a look at what could or should be moved. The rest of Admin can do the same. I think if some looks like it was resolved (?) , and couldn't provide anything (?) we'll just remove it. If it might provide something, we'll archive it.


edited by admin
Take a look.......

[LT Arthur Nelson (MKC) (Ret)]

I'm baaack... and glad to see some things never change. Retirement life is good here down in Brownsville.
Dennis asked a simple / straightforward question and [it] has snowballed into something non-related to his question.
But, as you can see, I still love this Forum and all the Chiefs posting on it.
I'll keep in speratic touch and posts until my HHG get delivered after my house in completed. I'm now logged on at the public library.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

People need to see that confrontation is the only thing that ever resolves an issue. If everyone always agreed on everything, there would be nothing to resolve.


I was down and out last week for three days with a bum ankle and I'm just now catching up. First off Some people seem to take the particular thread way too seriously, some seem not to care another others, and I'm going to throw myself into this category seem to think that this issues has grown way past the point it ever should have. Seems to me the regular poster's provide positive input on most posts and I am attempting to do so myself learning as I go. I do think that occasionaly the posts on this board seem almost more like a cat fight than legitimate debate or exhanging of ideas. My two cents

Masterchief
To be honest I would subsititue the word communication for confrontation. Confrontation is what happens when communication breaks down.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Pat, confrontation is also what needs to happen when people refuse to listen. If people are unwilling to confront other people, nothing will ever change.
And I don't have a problem with people joking around either. But everything doesn't need to be turned into a joke. I would rather have the people in your category, providing positive input and learning as we go.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Masterchief
I agree. If communication doesn't happen then we have to resort to the old 2 x 4 take them to the Bosun hole and work it out. I just think communication should be tried first. Sometimes on this site it seems to me being thatr it is a publicy view forum that some of these issues should either be taken behind closed doors or via email. Unified in front of all, bring out the gloves in private. Your posts are a great for me to learn from so I know they will keep coming and I'll keep learning.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Pat alot of the threads that people have had problems with lately have started out in private. Things have been said via e-mail, private message and phone. But if someone wants to resolve it here, in the open forum that we are, I'm all for it. That again was Dennis' point in both creating this site, and starting this thread. And this thread, started out as an off line question to Dennis. Dennis didn't respond to that person in private, he brought it here for discussion.
We can't be unified and still have debates. There has to be people on each side of the arguement. What we can show people is that even though we see things differently, we can still be civil about it. We can still respect someone else's opinion, or at least their right to have it. Everyone still has the right to express themselves. And you still have to answer for what you say, no matter how high you are in this organization. And one Chief should always be able to tell another Chief, I think you're wrong, and here's why. One Chief should always be able to ask another Chief can you help me with something.........

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Rgr Masterchief
I still think that some "debates" here should not be out in public. Just what I learned going through the CCTI. Perhaps I should rephrase my post to state personal issues between individual Chiefs should be behind closed doors or via email. Debate is good and keeps us thinking. So let the discussions continue and in my humble opinion keep any personal atacks (perhaps to strong a word, perhaps not) within closed doors.

Thanks once again.