New Recruits

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

I've heard over and over again, that today's recruits just do not have the work ethic, character, or enthusiasm as recruits of yesteryear. I say hogwash. I see supervisors, from E-4 to E-9, that just don't want to invest the same time and effort that their supervisors did in past years. And, to be blunt, I see it more in the E-7 to E-9 paygrades than anywhere else. I think that the closer to retirement we get, the less we care. Anyone care to dispute it?

[BMCS Joe Wright]

I am with you on this one Senior!! It is amazing how well these kids will perform given the opportunity, responsibility, empowerment, and most of all pride. Like all of us they just want to be a part of something better. As always thier are some bad apples out there, but for the most part....give them the mentoring that they need and want and I wouldn't trade my guys.

[BMCM Steve Cantrell]

You're absolutely right Dennis. On only very, very few occassions in my time as an Officer in Charge have I had a new SA or FA show up at my unit that was not in a sharp uniform and spit shined, called everyone sir or mam and was damn excited to be in the real Coast Guard. It's what happens in those first few weeks that shapes them into the bad apples and we, as Chiefs, must keep a close eye on their attitudes and point them in the right direction. But there are those that are nearing retirement and don't really put much effort into the process of shaping the future. :mad:

[MKCS Paul Miller]

My friends, the recruits do not develop poor attitudes alone. They are "Enthusiastic Beginners" being sent into a demanding role with a pack of wolves who had to learn it the hard way at the University of Hard Knocks in the Independent Study Program. And by golly if I had to go through that and learn it that way, then so will you mentallity. Don't focus on the new recruits attitude, focus on the crew and how they are treating that "New Guy", qualifying that "New Guy", teaching / guiding that "New Guy". People do not become discruntled, quit or get out, because their immediate supervisor payed them too much complements, encouraged them, or treated them like a competent adult. Remember "Dominos"? That last domino did not fall all by it's self quite a few events happened first that caused that domino to fall. What is causing our new Sharp, Spit Polished Enthusiastic recurits to fall? :confused: Let's Start There.

[MKC Mike Reilley]

Hey you! Yes you..... Did you come into the Coast Guard with the intention of failing?!? Well I haven't met anyone yet who has. As a mateer of fact I have never seen anyone graduate from boot camp and say to themselves-or others. Watch me screw this up! It doesn't happen that way. Somwewhere along the way our people become disenchanted. Well so did I when I was young. So what changed? A BM1 I worked for pulled me aside. Gently persuaded me to understand at 17 years of age I really didn't know everything. But guess what, neither did he he offered. He offered some sage advice. "If you don't like it, change it. If you can't change it then change the way you think about it." It's called adaptability. We grow, we learn, and we adapt. Not everything goes as planned or how we would like. That is life. How we cope and deal with those changes is a mark of our professionalism. See we don't do a job. We live a profession. Our organization is bigger than ourselves. That is what we need to instill in our junior members. It is that pride and tenacity to be the best at what, and everything ,we do that seperates us from the mediocre or the average. Just remember- average is just as close to the bottom as it is to the top. Never strive for average.

[BMCS J.D. Cole]

I have been surprised by the quality of the last few recruits that have come out of Cape May, 2 have degrees and have my recommendation for OCS. I have to think hard to remember my last less than quality recruit....

[DCCS Keith Wilbee]

Likewise I am billeted for eight E2's/E3's. The education level of our new members is quite high. Ive been in my current job 2 years, and have sent three to OCS. Others are actively enrolled in the tuition assistance program to get the degrees. I have nothing but good words for Cape May.

[admin]

Just cannot help myself as to add a little something on this subject.
I must agree with Senior Chief Endicott Hogwash.

This same thing was said in my days, having been the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

I have the opportunity quite often to visit ships and stations, mostly on the west coast and to my pleasure, see a degree of professionalism and courtesy in the vast majority of young sailors today. In many cases even better trained then the old guard of my day.

There are always the 10 percenters which is in all walks of life including the Services. Fear not, you are still doing a great job and those of us that went before appreciate that.

Keep up the good work

Semper Paratus / Memoria Semper

Ken Laesser EMCM (ret)
Class of '74

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

OK, so we all agree that there is nothing wrong with the recruit coming out of Cape May (at least no one has argued otherwise). But, what about the second part of the beginning post? Do senior enlisted just not care to mentor these young people? Are we too close to retirement to care?

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Well Dennis I think that there are those who are to close to retirement to care. But there are those of use that pride in turning out good performers and work hard to make sure our young coasties are mentored properly. I hate it when a command sends a so called problem child away to another unit. I love the challenge to turn that problem child into a model coastie. To give an example I had 3 young third class report aboard and the EMCS said man I feel sorry for you your going to have your hands full with those 2. I agreed with him and had to spend many of frustrating days keeping track of them. But by spending the time into making sure there started doing things the right way it had huge benefits. One of them turn around somewhat and is now a good MK1 and the other turn all the way around and is a great MK2. I saw this MK2 about a month ago and he told me even thought we didn’t see eye to eye at first and that they had plans to throw me overboard. After a few months of learning he understood where I was coming from and what was expected from him and that now he takes those same traits to teach those that work for him and tells those younger guys where he learned them from and the respect he has for me. We have to earn that respect. It made me feel good to have someone come up to me and say thanks for helping make me a good coastie and I’m using what you taught me to help make the guys that work for me good costies.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I think this could also fall into the "juniority" thread posted elsewhere. I don't think it's the recruits, and for the most part I don't think it's the old crusty sailors.

The ones we need to keep an eye on are the newly annointed middle management. Not that some of them intend to be a bad influence, some just don't have the life experience to lead others without a little help. The PO1 that has 4 years in may not have had as many leaders to learn from as the guy 10 years ago that was at 3-4 different units before making 1st.

Ken

[BMC Mark C. Lewis]

I have to agree, I have run into several persons that have advanced to BM1 while at their first unit.

[BMC Kerry Wagoner]

Agree with the above post. I have seen several individuals advance quickly through the ranks. Granted, they have the required knowledge of their rate, but on more than one instance, they did not have the judgement, maturity, knowledge, leadership, etc... of their pay grade.

One should be advanced when they have ALL the qualities needed of the next higher pay grade, not just the requirements of the next higher rate.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

You guys are stating the obvious.

Are you ready to fight your command to block an advancement? Are you ready to go to the wall saying that one of your people should not be advanced?

Remember, we're not talking about a poor performer. We're talking about a young petty officer that just hasn't had the opportunity to gain a lot of experience. He's not going to understand your intervention. He's going to blame you for a career road block.

Are you ready to take on the stigma of being an unreasonable hard-ass? Are you?

[BMC Kerry Wagoner]

Not only I am ready, but I feel who else will do it. As Chief's, who better than us knows what it takes to be a good leader and supervisor. I have not recommended people in the past for this very reason and if the issue arises again, I will do the same.

If by not recommending someone labels me as a "hard ass", then I guess if the shoe fits... :)

[BMC John Anders]

I have withheld advancements in the past. When marks come due and one of my people are not ready for the next paygrade they receive a not recommended mark. This is whether or not they are up for advancement, And of course I explain why and what they need to do to earn a recommendation for advancement.

Quite a blow for an individual since most in the CG tends to fill in the recommended bubble without much thought.

I am also curious as to how everyone treats A-school applicants. In the past, I have dissaproved A-school requests because I felt the member wasn't ready to perform at the next higher paygrade. I treat these A-school requests the same I do as a recommendation for advancement.

The only problem I see with this is that our organization sends people straight from boot camp to A-school. A bit unfair.


"Underway is the only way. Land is merely a hazard to navigation"

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I find it very easy to not recommend someone for advancement. I don't want this statement to be taken out of context or have it sound like I don't care, but part of our job is to look out for the future of this organization. If someone isn't ready, I don't have a problem not recommending them. The key is providing them positive, realistic goals for the next marking period. If they know what's expected going into it, then they will either take the necessary steps or not. Either way, you've done your job.

I spend more time on the Recommended/Not recommended block than any other. With E-6 and above we have to evaluate their leadership potential. If they don't have leadership potential that meets or exceeds the standard for that paygrade, we must mark not recommended.

I don't particularly care about being labeled a "Hard-Ass" or anything else. I will gladly take that label than the one of the OINC that sets his people and organization up for failure.

As far as fighting the command, if you keep good bullets on the individual there shouldn't be a fight. You can't argue with realty.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

It's not whether or not you're ready to withhold an advancement, but will you spend the time and effort needed to give that person the tools needed. I have gone to my Command fuming after having marks changed above my level, and after being over-ridden after recommending an individual not be placed on a supplemental advancement list.

One of the issues is having some young officers as the approving authority on whether an individual has the tools for the next highest enlisted paygrade.

The only solution I have found is to give that person responsibilities of the next paygrade, whether collateral duties or personnel supervision, then hold them accountable for the success or shortcomings. That can be placed on paper, tracked and documented while teaching the member to be accountable. Sometimes it takes getting your butt chewed for a subordinates mistakes before someone "gets it" and begins to supervise on their own.

Reverting to the original thread, if you include our young E-4/5 personnel I think there might be a different work ethic, but we also have a very different OPTEMPO than we had in the day as well. We also have more restrictions, or more rigidly enforced restrictions on how we govern at the lowest level and how we are allowed to discipline without paperwork.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

There is no problem with "juniority" in the CG. Everything falls back to failure to perform at the top. If commands are recommending advancement to members who do not possess the minimum standards, then shame on them.
As far as the quality of the recruits coming from Cape May.......minus some of the problems I have witnessed recently with people who should have never been allowed to enlist in the first place, i.e. members who are $30,000 - $45,000 in debt, missing a collar bone, outstanding warrants (plural), or barred from re-enlistment from other services, the product that they are producing has changed little in the past twenty three years.
I fancy myself to be a carpenter, and base many of my personal life desicisions on the teaching of a Jewish carpenter that lived a couple of thousand years ago. Any carpenter will tell you that your end product is only as good as the wood that you start with. When you start with a rawer product you only have to devote more time to finish with a quality piece. But regardless of the quality of the initial product, if you don't properly store it and protect it from adverse environmental elements, until you can at a minimum apply that first protective coating, your materials are gong to rot, get twisted and warped until there is very little left to actually work with.
Once you fail to protect the product that was entrusted to you, stop blaming the lumberyard. And once you've decided that you no longer care enough to create quality products that future generation can appreciate, stop wasting our resources and take up another hobby.

[SKCM Linda Reid]

Ha! - SCPO Endicott ... in your initial post, you are practically quoting MCPOCG Welch's luncheon speech at this year's CPOA convention!

[BMCS Shawn Vredenburg]

We've gone a little off topic and toward recommendations for advancements. Anyone read the PSC notes where they have changed the interpretation of the Pers Man for recommended/not recommended. PSC is saying that if the person could possibly be ready for advancement by the time it comes around, then you should mark recommended.

I stick with what the written policy is out of the Pers Man. If the member is ready, right now, to assume the duties and responsibilities of the next higher pay grade he/she gets my recommendation. If not...they have to wait.