Getting people to certify for OinC.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Seeing as how the COMDT is so supportive of Enlisted Commands and so few BMCs are certifying.....I have to ask.........

[BMCS Bill Gheen]

Just wanted to publicly announce my position as second question from the top.<O:p</O:p

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I would add that it should also be required to have one qual, Afloat or ashore, for advancement to E7 and both for advancement to E8 and both afloat and and shaore for CWO.

[BMC John Phillips III]

I said keep it as it is because for me, making Chief was ahead of certifying on my list of things to do. Do I think you should have to certify to stay a Chief? No, we need chiefs to fill billets that I don't want to (see anything big and white, been there done that). I have said in the past I can't see why any BMC wouldn't want to be an OIC, but to each his own. As far as making warrant goes, I am not as close to the process for screening as I will or should be, but I would think that a certified 1st above the cut or Chief would place higher than one that wasn't, but that's the JP3 system of score keeping.

[BMC Jeffrey Zappen]

I concur - One for E-7 and both for E-8 and CWO!

My 2 cents....

Jeff

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

JP3, as far as scoring for Warrants.....you'd be surprised. I was only on the list once, but I knew a bunch of the people who placed higher than me and didn't have an OinC certification or a DWO letter.....and they weren't surfman either.

[BMCS Bill Gheen]

Stu is right. Your making CWO has no relation to your enlisted qualifications. The boards don't weigh-in the OIC thing at all. Of course if you have an OIC certification, your not even eligible to compete as an MSS CWO. The whole application for CWO process is a big steaming, stinky pile of crap if you ask me.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

A minimum of one for E-7, a minimum of both Aloat or Ashore for E-8. CWO's should meet the E-7 requirement.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Bill, stop beating around the bush....what are you trying to say ?

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I couldn't vote because my choice wasn't there. I agree, one for E-7, both for E-8, and Warrant (since they can take Command) should at least have the minimum.

I don't see how you could even add your first choice though. Do you really think they should take E-7 from someone because they change the requirements after the fact??? I know alot of BM2's, BM1's and BMC's that would have to research when they made rate, and when the requirement changes happened regarding Coxswain Quals, Nav-Rules passing and DWO passing for E-4/5/6/7 as BM's. You would have former QM now BMC's being kicked back to BM3 because they never certified as coxswain.

If it is changed to a requirement for E-7, that still keeps present E-7's from making 8 without it, but raises the bar for future E-7's. That is the goal is it not? If you couldn't make BMC without it, you would have no problem getting people to show up for the board.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Ken, I think "raising the bar" is exactly what it would be for. OIC is part of a BM's career path. To be a BM and not aspire to be an OIC is, in my opinion, aspiring to be mediocre. Those that are anchor wearing BM's that don't have an OIC qual would be "grandfathered" in from an appointed time. They would then be ideal candidates for those staff jobs that nobody wants. (Stu, do you like how I put "raising the bar" and "grandfathered" in the same paragraph? I could not help getting in that little jab) This would then ensure the future of BM's filling needed enlisted command positions. I for one, think that the bar should be just as high for CWO's as well.

[BMC James M. Clark]

Boy, what an opportune time for me to vent...

I saw on another thread the fact that there are BMs out there that don't want to sit for the OIC review board. I didn't believe it, figured it must be some sort of misunderstanding, or parallel universe, anything but that. Not in my wildest dreams...

So today I'm sitting down with a couple of BMC hopefuls (legacy BMs, mind you), reviewing how to fill out an IDP (which were on the market how long ago, and we still don't know how to fill out?) when I mentioned that an excellent long term professional goal (they evidently don't have any) would be to pass the OIC review board. They both looked me in the eye, and with a straight faces, asked me "what if I don't want to be an OIC?"

After the AED was disconnected, I pushed and prodded said BM1s, and I couldn't get a decent answer as to why they wouldn't want to be an OIC. I've heard the whole "I don't agree with the board process" thing, but they didn't even play that card. They weren't even really that interested in pursuing XPO billets ("well maybe, but I'd prefer not"). All they wanted was to hang an anchor on their collar.

Blew my mind away. Anyway, the question in my mind, I guess, has anybody heard a valid reason for not pursuing an OIC qual?

Oh, and if that's the way we're going to play it, I'm all for requiring at least one OIC qual code prior to sitting for BMC. And for those that are already BMCs, who aren't trying to qualify (and I stress the trying, especially for legacy QMs), its time to dust off your First Class crow.

Now, secure from venting. All hands return to Station's work.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

James...Very well put!

I have never heard a valid reason. I've heard a lot of reasons for not pursuing an OINC certification, but not a valid one.

[BMCS Mike Ellis]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I actually sat down with one of our four BM1's today to discuss his career plans. He came to me last week and wanted to prepare for the board. When I unloaded four 3.5" three ring binders full of study material I used last year, he thought I was crazy. But anyway. This particular BM1 is someone I respect immensely. I actually look up to him in many ways for his methodical, thorough approach to running his department. He's certainly not a glory hound, just an honest BM1 (prior QM) who in the past has stated that he had no desire to compete for XPO or OIC assignment in the future. He has 7yrs TIS and 2yrs TIG. Today I was able to ask him about his change of heart. Here are a few key points he made.
-Fewer people today see OIC positions as desireable billets.
-OIC RFC's and the myth that an OIC can "get fired for anything" are contributing factors.
-OIC's themselves may be touting that notion and scaring folks away.
-No one he knows wants to go through the trials of an XPO due to the workload. (Keep in mind, he only has D7 experience.)
-People today aren't interested in assuming this amount of work and responsibility when they can go ET or IT, do a fraction of the work and retire with the same pay. (His words, not mine. Hold your fire.)
-Folks are just plain scared of the board and see it as an insurmountable task.
My take is we need to do a better job selling these positions. I also realize that today's generation isn't as impressed by positional authority as before. Thoughts?
Mike

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

James, have to go with you on this one. I think I remember another thread that discussed a "Not recommended" for an E7 not willing to at least attempt to sit for the qual. Just one would do. I think 2 for E8, that would work. I have to stress....at least get the qual. Does not mean you need to take the job? Should you? I would say definately yes, it is very rewarding and challenging.

CS

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jim, if no one else has told you today...I love ya. But maybe it's those little jabs that have your job on that on the "second and final".......? Deane's probably right.

Chris, if you look at the list of some of our most senior E8s and E-9s, you'd see some people who have held certifications for many years and haven't sought an OinC position......in many years.

Mike, you're right. We do need to do a better job selling these jobs. And we're back to making RFC information public knowledge. If they knew why people were actually relieved, ...those rumors and myths might go away. As far as insurmountable.....we all passed. Standardizing the board might address that ? The thing that gets me....is seen as undesireable. For a BM. I remember back as a BM3 thinking how differently I would run the show if I were in charge. I don't know how you could be career orientated as a BM and not think about getting your own unit. The freedom of becoming coxswain and having your crew do things the right way.......... I don't see how people don't want to be the person in charge. And the horror stories about the board...........What bothers me is those stories aren't first hand accounts, which I could understand. They're not second hand accounts either. It's the I know a guy who heard about this guy who wnet before the board and........stories.
It isn't about raising the bar. It's about meeting a service need. Our service changes all the time. We have to change to meet those needs. And I'm not going to side track this conversations......I leaving to start another thread.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Or its the guy telling the horror story who is a 6-8 year BM1 and has been a golden child but failed his first attempt and is now bitter. What are the valid reasons. I loved being an XPO, ashore and afloat. I love being an OINC better. all cop-outs!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I find it hard to believe that any BM would not desire an OIC position. I made E-6 on my first enlistment. I then had to decide if I was going to stay in the Coast Guard, or go back to college and fly airplanes. After discussing this with my then (now ex) wife, we opted to stay in the CG. I told the detailer I would re-enlist if he would put me on the Point Charles as XPO. He did, and I did...

After completing 3 years as an XPO on a WPB your (at least my) normal desire was to be an OIC... I lucked out and got a SAR station as a BM1.. From then on, it was one after another.. WYTL as a boot Chief, WLIC as a boot E-8, and a few WLR's as an E-9....

I too find it odd that people would not aspire for these positions. As with anything else, you get the good and the bad.. The responsibility & the glory... should things go right, you reap the rewards, and consequently, if they go wrong, you are the one held responsible & accountable...

No decision in my mind....

Wray... :cool:

[BMC John Phillips III]

I find it hard to believe that any BM would not desire an OIC position.

WLIC as a boot E-8, and a few WLR's as an E-9....

I too find it odd that people would not aspire for these positions.

Especially that one! I guess it's a good thing that not everyone wants them, that would mean less for me!

(2 WLIC's and looking for more!)

[BMC Chris Gempp]

I am sitting for my final board today..Ready to move on to bigger and better things

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Good luck Chris, I'm sure you'll do fine. What certifications are you sitting for?

[BMC Chris Gempp]

M/M ashore and afloat.

[BMC MICHAEL BAGLEY]

I'm sitting for the Aton Ashore qual this go around. I was wondering if anyone had some study material for the lastest and greatest in Aton. I have contacted the NATON school for some material....hopefully the send it. I contacted Mr. Hayes at the Command Cadre school and he sent me the newest CD. I plan on visiting the local Aton units and the ones I come close to in my travels with the PACAREA TRATEAM. I'm not asking for anyone to just hand me material... Just looking for some help and guidence.

Thanks in advance Honorable Master Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, and Chiefs,
Mike

[BMCS Mike Ellis]

Mike,
Come see me at the ANT. I've got several pages of notes from the ATON manuals. It's all still current to my knowledge, I wrote them when I sat in 2005.

Mike

[BMC Jason Brennan]

WRT sitting for the board, I'm one of those new E-7's without the qual. I'm preparing for this fall go around. I should have sat this spring and I have 101 excuses why I didn't. None of them are good ones and I'm not happy that I let another member influence my decision not to sit. I am busy with my XPO duties, and learned my lesson WRT preparing. I called my CMC who was putting the pre-board together and "copped out" the last day before I had to submit my package, lets just say his reaction was not very supportive of me not sitting. (For the record I had all intentions on going to his office to let him know, but I was underway and not able to pull in).

WRT the information given to me a couple of days before sitting were:

I was not ready regarding the knowledge aspect (i.e. reservists, CGMA, how the budget is prepared at the headquarters level). I was not prepared like I should have.

That if I don't go in there thinking that there is not one question the board could ask that I won't get wrong then I'll basically get fish-hooked and drug around the room. (In my mind that seems a little unrealistic)

I was also told that there have been a lot of members that after failing their first board were unable to recover. He said that going in front of the board is not like taking the SWE to see what is on it and pressing your luck.

Through all the smoke and mirrors my question to OINC's is: Is sitting for the pre-board knowing you might not be 100% ready (knowledge based) good professional development or a waste of time?

IMO even if I feel that I'm not 100% prepared for the pre-board, sitting for experience is a good thing (of course with the intent to pass). I'm sure that a lot of advice is given for improvement, and then you put the board behind you and shift focus to your next opportunity in 6 months. I have all the confidence (not over confidence) with my leadership skills and ability to deal with personnel issues. I'm an XPO right now and deal with most of the issue's as is. I know how to reference manuals, and many times even when I'm 99% percent sure of what the answer is I double check my self to ensure I didn't leave out a "shall" or "may" etc..

As some might very well see, I'm new at this "conversation via computer thing" I hope I was able to state my case clearly. I know that because communication is only 8% words spoken that this format takes the other 92% out of the equation. I've looked over this damn post three times now and have a headache...ready for incoming.:cool:

[BMCS Eric Guerette]

Jason,
If you wait until you are 100% ready you will never sit. I honestly believe that the day anyone thinks they know everything there is to know about something, is the day they stop learning. You will get stumped by a few questions, it is how you handle the "fish hook" that matters most. I left the pre-board with a list of things to touch up on, everyone does. I also left the district board with a list of things to touch up on and the certifications. Go when your ready to be an OIC, not once you have memorized every manual.
Eric

[YNCM Doug Squires (Ret)]

Jason:

Having been a member of a pre-board (Group S. Portland) and a member of the OIC Review Board (5th District) I can tell you the folks sitting in that room are looking for every opportunity to help you succeed.

The boards are tough - they are meant to be. We would rather have you make your mistakes at the board, and go away to study some more than to go out there and fall on you big rusty sabre.

In a nutshell what the board is looking for is if you have the basic sets of skills and knowledge that will help you succeed as an Officer in Charge. Plus do you have the judgement and good sense to make it as an OinC.

I remember one of the D5 Boards, we had a BMC come to sit for the board - each and every question asked was technically correct for 1975, problems was it was 1987! Use of Force was out dated, Rules of the Road had changed.... well, you get the idea. And he was ticked that we did not certify him!

We had a young man come before the board - he just wasn't ready. Many of his answers lacked the working knowledge of the programs that were needed, and his confidence was very low. We told him what we thought, and told him what he needed to do to come back and be successful. We saw him again at the next board, and he blew the board away. Although now retired, he had a very successful ten years as an Officer in Charge before retirement.

So as far as not surviving a second attempt at a board - that's pure BS.

I'm not sure who was giving you the advice, but, being "fish-hooked and drug around the room" - unless the precepts of the boards have radically changed, there is no room for that sort of thing.

Good luck with your board. Study hard, and take it serious. And if you don't make it, listen to what they tell you - it will help better prepare you for the next board.

[BMC MICHAEL BAGLEY]

Chief Ellis, Thanks you have a deal. I 'll call and set a date with you. Maybe I can get underway and watch you set a couple of TRLBS. I know nothing of these new LED Lanterns... I hear they are great.
Mike

[BMCS Chris Swiatek]

Good luck to all of you getting ready to sit for the board. I'll tell you all the same thing I tell everyone, Take it seriously, but remember that it's just a bunch of people in a room asking you questions...the real challenge is taking over your first command. You've all been through boards before, OOD, Cox'n, U/W DWO, etc. The only difference is the range of questions.

Your never going to be 100% prapeared for the board but your true indicator is your gut telling you that you have the judgement and leadership to lead a crew.

As for the poll, I agree with the one cert for E-7, 2 for E-8 and ABSOLUTELY for CWO. The CWO screening process should, in no way, be a substitution for the OIC screening panel.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Those with the most desire and motivation will attend as soon as they can.... the rest will procrastinate for what ever possible reason they can come up with..

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Dave Considine]

As for the poll, I agree with the one cert for E-7, 2 for E-8 and ABSOLUTELY for CWO. The CWO screening process should, in no way, be a substitution for the OIC screening panel.

From the RFMC BM Force Notes it looks like this may come up in the near future:

BM RFMC comments:
On the BOSN side of the house I argue for requiring at least one Officer in Charge certification as a prerequisite for CWO(BOSN). This would

1) immediately raise the level of qualification for ALL BMs and
2) immediately raise the level of qualification for BOSN.

I have never been impressed by someone who tells me they don't care to participate in OIC board certification because they are "going Warrant." And it is consistent in my mind that if BM is the Coast Guard's Command enlisted rating then CWO(BOSN) should be the Coast Guard's Command warrant specialty.

Any further discussion on the matter awaits the arrival of the new BOSN Specialty Manager, CWO4(BOSN) Baker, later this year.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I failed my first pre-board. It was however, a great learning experience. I came back 6 months later, much better prepared and knowing what to expect. Passed and got my cerifications that I wanted. Remember that it is OK to say, "I don't know". Think about your answers before you give them. Then be concise. The longer you run on with your answer, the more they think you are fishing. If you have had previous experience with a circumstance in which you are being questioned, share that and what you did. A great part of the board is you leadership and judgement in circumstances in addition to your knowledge. Remember that there are subject matter experts in the form of YN's, SK's, HS's and such that are stationed at Sectors that are there to support you as an OIC. In addition to them, there will also be other OIC's in the vicinity that can also be a source to draw upon in an unusual circumstance. You won't know everything and if you come accross like you do, the board may question your willingness to seek advice and counsel. It was my experience that it is better to say "I don't know, but this is where I would look and this is who I would call" than to try to wing an answer. Be confident in what you do know and sure about your actions and intent when you don't know.
Good luck to all.

[BMC Harley Matlock]

I would like to provide my experience with my first (failed) pre-board. (MM afloat )I am on my third XPO tour. I am not bitter that I failed my pre-board, I did walk away experiencing an emotion I had not felt yet. I started like every other young pup, cutter small boat coxswain, station watchstander, 41 coxswain, OOD, U/W OOD and so on, never having failed any one of those boards then to be at what I considered the top of my game and fail so miserably was quite a shock. I sat before 2 O-6's, 1 O-3, one MKC, one BMC(MM ashore), one CWO, one work-life rep and one BMCS (every qual known to mankind). I started out well (squirming in my chair a little, but not too bad) I solved the maneuvering board problems easily, then I started to falter when asked about what my idea of military readiness was(I assumed the question was about training and maintaining a military war type readiness, not realizing they were asking me about my CG Central medical and dental readiness) It then spiraled downhill from there, forgetting what a safewater buoy was and the limits of station smallboats(as a possible On Scene Commander, I should know this) or some of the many hats that a Sector commander wears, or a few of the X factors to consider when executing a SAR case. I never realized I was so dumb. I wasn't asked about procurement, galley, weapons, drydock or storm evasion. I will sit for my board again and be better prepared, now that I have fallen off of the horse I will get back on again. I realize that I did not seek out as much help as I could have and will correct that for my next one. I just wanted to share my experience with you.
I can see how some BM's would never go back. I hope to sit successfully and get an OIC job someday.

[BMC MICHAEL BAGLEY]

I'm right there with you Chief Matlock. I will never give up. They will get tierd of seeing me after awhile....hahaha.
Mike

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

I just voted so I can see who voted how. Also so I can complain....

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Now ain't that just like an ET ;)

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Harley we all get shocked when we are told that. I was but I refused to give up. Instaed of shock, I got pissed and realized I was damn good at my job and I had to prove it. Every board is different. The make-up of the board determines how it goes. I wrote some questions down when I did not know the answer, esp if I felt I should know it. Then, if I rememebred in the middle of the board, I would tell them I knew it and address the person that asked it. Pausing and not jumping to a quick answer, unles it is yes/no, shows the board ou are using your cirtical thinking skills. But, dont pause too long just a quick pause to take a breath and asnwer the question.

Does anyone other than me think Pre-boards are harder?

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

Sorry, I meant for my above post to be in the "changing of the guard" thread... Don't know how it got here... My bad.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I think that my pre-boards were much harder than the D-7 board that I went through. The Group board that I went through was full of warrent F&S, warrent PERS, 1 BMCS, and a few other Chiefs and O's. I felt like I was getting grilled on all kinds of obscure things from various ratings. When I got to the D-7 Board, it was an O-6, a civilian (work life), a CWO ENG, our current MCPO-CG, and a bunch of Master Chiefs with surfman pins. I was told to relax and simply answer the questions to the best of my ability. I was put at ease. Much more so than the "square your corners and wait to be invited to sit" that was the group board.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Every board is different. The make-up of the board determines how it goes. I wrote some questions down when I did not know the answer, esp if I felt I should know it. Then, if I rememebred in the middle of the board, I would tell them I knew it and address the person that asked it. Pausing and not jumping to a quick answer, unles it is yes/no, shows the board ou are using your cirtical thinking skills. But, dont pause too long just a quick pause to take a breath and asnwer the question.

Does anyone other than me think Pre-boards are harder?

Burt...I think your board was one of the finest boards ever...

My ACTNY Preboard was harder than the D1 board.

My D13 Preboard was about the same as the PACAREA board.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

When I went to my board there was no "pre board"...

The only problem with this 'pre board' stuff is where does it stop? I have seen Groups and Training Centers conducting their own 'pre'-pre board.... how far does it go?

I can see it useful to a degree, but if an XPO is doing a good job, good marks etc, wouldn't it be natural to assume he know his $hit and would probably do well on his board? Likewise, one that is new, or struggling with his assignment would be likely to require more TIS before he/she went to the board.

Sometimes "micro-management" can be carried a little to far...

Wray.. :cool:

[BMCS Dave Considine]

During the last board I had a fellow Chief come from one of the cutters come to the station for some advice, due to fact it is a LANT unit (and operational commitments) he didn't have a chance to go to a preboard. I think it is a definite disadvantage to not go before the pre-board - BUT - this guy was definitely prepared and passed the District board.

Can't remember the previous thread that discussed this, but at my unit I took the good advice and have structured all the comms, crew, coxswain, and engineering boards in a formal manner similar to the OIC board - it works. People approach the board more prepared and treat it with more respect than before.

At least for the BM's, when they do get to the OIC boards they will have had some practice sitting in the hot seat. So in theory they will have been through several "pre-boards".

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Dave,

Does your unit hold a "pre-board" prior to the "real" board?

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Another thing that helped...... years ago, the detailers would look at your assignment history, and try to give you assignments that would help your career, and make you a more well rounded Boatswain's Mate... After a tour at a SAR station, you may go somewhere that had AtoN responsibilities, be it ashore or afloat. This too helped at the boards....

I have always said the best way to help yourself advance, other than the test is to stay operational... At least it worked for me...

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Burt Ford]

[QUOTE=BMCS Deane Smith;20978]Burt...I think your board was one of the finest boards ever...QUOTE]

How right you are Deane!

My Pre-boards were harder. All of them. My last baord, which Deane was a member, was short. It was right when the PERSMAN was changed to the current form for someone who holds OINC quals already.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Mine was the exact opposite. I went through the pre-board and District board twice, and both times the District board was much harder than the pre-board. I did really well in my first pre-board, and was nowhere near prepared enough when I went to District. I made sure I was more than ready when I went back the second time.

I think pre-boards have historically been hit or miss, depending on where they were at, and are highly recommended on the message when it hits the streets. Whether they are doing us any good or not I guess is a matter of opinion.

I think some of the responsibility lies with the person recommending you as well, to help ensure you are ready. Personally, I thought the pre-boards that I went to were to short, very rushed, and the folks running them really didn't have a good format to align with the district board.

One year Burt and I went to the pre-baord together, and I don't know what happened...I think they just didn't like him:D

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I know what happened I failed you did not. And you are right, I do think I was not liked. I was pissed before I ever walked through the door and you know why. It was a terribly run board. It was not very well planned. I say that after helping out here, you cant go into a board as a member without preparation. I passed the following fall though but did not go to D8 because of a hurricane and I had orders to come here.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

It was a terribly run board. It was not very well planned.

Roger that! That was a SNAFU from start to finish.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

The next one was a tad better but not much. D17 andPACAREA put on very professional boards.

[BMCS Curtis Dewey]

since the poll is closed....i would of voted for option 3.
i think what people fail to realize is that not every BM is cut out for command duty. I personnaly dont see that as a bad thing. certain traits necessary cant be taught, its almost inherent.
yes, BM is a command rate, but when that 19year old decides to become a BM do you think all are striving for that? You ask most junior BM's and they think the BM rate is cool cause they drive boats and carry guns, and dont sit behind desks. Then they advance, make great 2nd's, 1st's and then Chief.

I have been a board member for at least 8 group/sector/district boards and have seen quite a potpurri of candidates, knowledge is one thing......if it was only about knowledge shouldnt we make it a written test? attitude/confidence/presence/bearing etc. can that stuff be taught?

now the warrant deal....no they shouldnt have to certify to make it, but to be assigned a CO job, they should of held the qual in their previous life.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Curtis how is Georgetown? I helped open that new station as a BM3. Shortly after HUGO came through.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Curtis, nice to see you crawled out from under that rock you were hiding under. Now all we have to do is have admin update you to a BMCS.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

it is done Bruce. I did it earlier!

[BMCS Curtis Dewey]

no rocks around here Bruce...maybe at the 3 jetties in my AOR.
more like, finally came off that redfish flat..............
finally figured why this poll was closed, i guess if i wait a YEAR to visit and vote it dont mean much

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

Getting certified? I can only speak for myself. It was a personal choice I made. I had nobody breathing down my neck. I was told it was what I was to do. I sat for MM Ashore because it was what I knew. I studied on my own, use questions from the past, read the manuals and sat on my A$$(ha, ha:D ). I guess it was more a personal thing than a forceable thing. If it was a requirement for advancement, it would have made that personal choice a little easier.

Getting others to certify. I like to think I take the same approach. I convey that it's in your rating to take command. Give them the tools, all that other blah, blah, blah, stuff. Point them in the right direction, answer when ask, and mentor, mentor, mentor. Encourage them to sit for the board, get the qual. You will know when you are ready. Just because you have the qual, it does not mean you are ready to take the helm.

Now a days an E-6 might only have 6-8 years and goes up for the board. Comes out with the qual and say now what? Well, from the 5 or 6 shipmates I know that were in that situation, they all went on to XPO tours or an Operations job, they put their qual in their back pocket for another day. They held the qual, but wanted more expierence first. Good for them.

I do believe they need to change the requirement for advancement. To what, I don't know? 1 qual to E7, 2 qual E-9. Keep the Surfman stuff for Shoreside BM's, add U/W DWO/OOD stuff for U/W BM's to get to E8. 1 qual for assignment to CWO. Since there could be the chance of some more OIC billets being converting over to CO billets due to the lack of qualified members.;) Again, just thinking out loud.

CS

[BMC Kevin Morgan]

I agree with Curtis. Everyone isn't cut out to be an OIC. Accordingly not every BMC billet is an OIC position. (I believe it's only 25% vice 75% for 8) If you make it a requirement for E-7 what do you do with all of the general duty jobs where being an OIC isn't required. Are you going to take the anchor away from BMC's on all of the cutters, or make them E-6 jobs? It doesn't' make sense. Everything is fine the way it is. I'd be curious to know how many people that went warrant are CO's of a cutter and Station that haven't passed the review board. I don't know of anybody? If there are then they shouldn't have made warrant. A BOSN is the BM rating specialist; they can't be one if they aren't certified in at least one.

People shouldn't be pushed to be an OIC. They either have the drive to be in charge or they don't. If they don't then they can stay an E-7 and enjoy filling out there dream sheets full of 378s, 270s and sector jobs. For me that was enough motivation to sit and get my qualification. That coupled with I want to be an OIC.

People that complain about the Review board process are the same people who complain about the service wide. If you study and put the time in you'll pass. If you think you can go in and BS the board then you won't. I studied for over six months and put in around 3 hours a day studying everything.

What should be addressed are people taking back to back to back XPO jobs that never plan on sitting for the board. I passed my review board before I took the XPO job here at Golden Gate. I can honestly say I'm still learning new stuff everyday. I thought I was ready to take command after I passed my board but the experience that I've gained the last 5 months has been irreplaceable. People that are great performers and want to sit for the board should be given every opportunity to have an XPO job. People shouldn't be able to screen for a second XPO position unless they have at the very least sat for the board. I would be willing to guess that the pass rate for XPO's is higher then those who have never had the job.

Just my two cents.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

[QUOTE=BMC Kevin Morgan;21578]I agree with Curtis. Everyone isn't cut out to be an OIC. Accordingly not every BMC billet is an OIC position. (I believe it's only 25% vice 75% for 8) If you make it a requirement for E-7 what do you do with all of the general duty jobs where being an OIC isn't required. Are you going to take the anchor away from BMC's on all of the cutters, or make them E-6 jobs? It doesn't' make sense. Everything is fine the way it is. I'd be curious to know how many people that went warrant are CO's of a cutter and Station that haven't passed the review board. I don't know of anybody? If there are then they shouldn't have made warrant. A BOSN is the BM rating specialist; they can't be one if they aren't certified in at least one.[QUOTE]

Good post Kevin except what i high lighted. Our biggest shortage is at the E7 level. Do we downgrade all E8/9 jobs that are general duty? Remember every 8/9 has OINC Quals. Your last sentance also answers the first part of your post.

Burt

[BMCS Curtis Dewey]

someone mark the calendar, Kevin agreed w/me;) . Kevin, good to hear from you.
hope all is well at GG.