COMDT's Vision

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

We just had the COMDT down and I'll try to let you know what's on the horizon.
He plans on doing some realignment from the headquarters end. All of those Gs and Os and Rs will be replaced by a numbered staffing systems. They will be looking at other restucture that might include combining the MLCs. Creating the "DOG" which will be a deployble operational group that will fall under a Flag Officer and have all the MSSTs and the like under one roof. There is new interest in creating a law enforcement competency that would allow people to stay in a law enforce field throughout their career, instead of pushing people to meeting their desires in Border Patrol or Customs. There is going to be a restructuring of our filing and accountability standards to bring us online with the "post-Enron" era. They're looking at removing those SK from the unit level, and the units responsibility that came with them. Imagine a time when the unit won't have to worry about keeping those files or doing reconsciliations.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I had the oppritunity to ask ADM Allen last night where the CG was headed with ATON. Got a very well planned answer but the short of it was we will not be losing the job. He stated that Katrina enabled us to prove why the CG needed to keep that responsibility and will keep it. He told me that fixing the "small aton fleet" was one of his priorities, most notably the Western Rivers. He would like to use off the shelf replacement for ATON assets not devolope new CG Assets.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I have a problem with removing SK's from the units.

How am I suposed to support a unit where I dont know MY customers. Where is the ownership. Back in an office I order stuff to be sent to the unit. If they get I never know unless they call me and let me know, wait, that is what SK's are for. So now someone at the unit will be tasked with forwarding shipping information. Oh, and lets hope that a big order or part that is damaged in shippment. Will that POC at the unit know how to properly document the damage?

At the unit if something gets messed up there is accountability. If they go to a system that removes the SK's, all they can do is complain up the chain, no telling if that Supply person that actually messed up gets called out for their mistake.

hmm, I dont really like the sound of all that. SK's need to be at the units to allow their customers that direct line to supply to get the job done. It is all about customer service and that is a big part of the SK Rate.

[PAC Jamie Devitt-Chacon ret]

I had the oppritunity to ask ADM Allen last night where the CG was headed with ATON. Got a very well planned answer but the short of it was we will not be losing the job. He stated that Katrina enabled us to prove why the CG needed to keep that responsibility and will keep it. He told me that fixing the "small aton fleet" was one of his priorities, most notably the Western Rivers. He would like to use off the shelf replacement for ATON assets not devolope new CG Assets.


Didja tell him about "Dirty Jobs"?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

That's great news Burt. I hope they concentrate on the WLR/WLIC fleet because they need it. Not developing a new fleet is also a good idea, they are very good platforms for what they do. They could use a few more HP, but maybe that will come.

Jamie...I should see ADM Allen next month and if the opportunity arises, I will ask.

[PAC Jamie Devitt-Chacon ret]

Heck, why not??!! Right to the top. I bet he watches it.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

SK's need to be at the units to allow their customers that direct line to supply to get the job done. It is all about customer service and that is a big part of the SK Rate.


Ron, completely agree, we're going backwards losing the support petty officer at the unit. If I understand correctly I will have to call Sector and say, "I need a stapler". The SK there will say, "Why do you need a stapler?" Some JO will say "We bought your station three staplers two years ago." I might finally get a stapler after jumping through hoops. Right now I can say, "My stapler broke, order a new one." A day or so later I have a stapler, back to real work.

Sounds alot like the FUIRP thing we just went through, someone wants better control over the money flow. We had used unit funds to buy gedunkulator valves, they came and took the gedunkulator valves because we hadn't used them in six months. They said, "If you need a gedunkulator valve, use CG PART system and one will be sent to you." Then you find out that CG PART will only be around for a year or so. If you finally need that gedunkulator and its thirteen months later, bang, you have to buy another gedunkulator. Now I've paid for that part TWICE. My original valve is probably now in some DRMO and a civilian is buying it for a third of what it's worth. I completely understand the concept of FUIRP and it made a huge difference on some cutters (tons of parts gone and better fuel efficiency), but at the small boat unit level it didn't make that big of an impact. Another local OIC followed around the contractors pulling parts out of the box and said "I paid for that, you can't take that, your stealing my parts!"

Master Chief Slesh said, "There is going to be a restructuring of our filing and accountability standards to bring us online with the "post-Enron" era. They're looking at removing those SK from the unit level, and the units responsibility that came with them."

My budget is under 100K, I get audits on almost everything and the whole point of the SK at the unit was to bring up the accountability standards. I don't think I could scam even a part of that money without getting caught.

My SK does the property, some of the XPO's admin load, the medical and dental scheduling. We would defintely be worse off without him.

That's my five minute rant, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dave, the whole point of bringing things under one roof, is that you won't even know that the audit is being done. And it won't be on your shoulders anyway, because it won't be your unit's money. They're looking at a time when you'll be able to call that SK and say I need that valve and it will be sent to you. You won't even pay for it once.
And the bottom line is, this is going to happen. The CG is bringing down the entire DHS. We're the last ones to get on board with this. The FUIRP showed that units had parts the they weren't even aware of and had parts for equipment they no longer owned. The took stuff the units had hoarded for three, five, or seven years. It wasn't like you purchased something one day, and they took it off of you the next. And I'm not sure who has access to purchase from a DRMO, but once it shows up there, no other unit wanted it in the first place.
And Ron, I understand that customer service is a big part of what you do, but your customer is changing. How many large units,.....I'll say again,....large units, do you know that fail almost ever MLC compliance inspection that they go through ? Our accounting practices aren't cutting it. And change is in the air.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

How many large Units.

How would you define large please. MLC large or Sector Large. Or, lagacy, MSO or ISC large.

MLC, ELC, HQ, Area, they dont get inspections.

All lower commands do. And I can tell you that every command that I have been to and has gone through an inspection has passed. I was at Airsta E-City for a CFO Inventory Audit and we pass that also.

sigh, I know it is going to happen. I understand the BIG picture. I will however miss that one on one with my customers. Now it will be just takeing a phone call.

I would love to type more but this is truly not the place.

But, we all know, when the word comes down, we will make it happen, we ( Chiefs ) will make it work. That is our responsibily. sigh, like it or not, "Times, they are'a changin'"

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

By large, I would have gone with Sector. Every unit I've been at has passed also, but that's not what I hear when it came to the Activities, Group or Sector.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

If that is the case, thats truly sad. But with centralized supply, would they be a Headquarters Unit? Most Headquarters units dont get compliance inspections.

I also have to wonder, what part of the compliance inspection are these units failing to bring their whole score down? Is it one area or the whole thing? I guess in the big picture it does not matter, if they fail they fail.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Well he just released his first 100 days message, and I think that he mentioned AtoN enough to make Jim Madsen happy...........

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Wow...

Here it comes..

Step 1: Centralize MLC
Step 2: Remove SKs from units
Step 3: Add SKs to a large HQ type unit to provide for all outlying units
Step 4: Downsize SK Billeting structure, reduce personnel cost to CG
Step 5: With centralized SKs, realize the loss of expertise that comes with transfers of military personnel
Step 6: Civilianize the SK workforce, phasing out SKs from the large central office
Step 7: CG has Finance and Logistics branch made up entirely of civilians

~wipes his brow, I'm glad I'm at the end of my tour~

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, under the not for nothing title.......

But...... I've served with SKs in the Messes that I've been a part of, I've had Sks as neighbors, and I have SKs that I consider my friends...... though they would tell you differently.........

That being said, I've only ever been at two units that had an SK assigned to it. Love what you guys do for us and all,.... but you've always been a phone call away in my career. I know that I don't know everything that you do for me or my unit, but as long as I can call and get what I need, I don't care if it's a local or long distance call. And I'm not singling you SKs out, the same two units are the only ones that I had a YN at as well. Only had two units with GMs. Never sailed with an RD or an FT.
So if the COMDT thinks that centralizing all of the SKs is going to make my life easier, sorry, I'm selfish, and I'll drop you a line.

And I don't recall him mentioning phasing out SKs and replacing you with civilians, but , if that's the way things turn out, there's always room at the end of the bar next to the QMs, Boiler Techs, Sonar Techs.................

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

And one other thing if I may add... IF the SK's jobs are civilianized, that would mean there are GOVT jobs available for people with knowledge and experience in the arena of being an SK. Not only will you probably get paid more, you will not have to transfer every few years and you will be eligible for a 2nd retirement.
Doesn't sound all that bad to me.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Yeah.. not bad for us and the end of our tours.. but for the new guy.. standby for heavy rolls.. it is the new guy that I'm thinking of!

Anyhow, I'm going so far away from government jobs when I retire it won't matter.. watch for me on HBO..

v/r

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

The way its going we will all be civilians one day . We just went thru A76 and lost 20 military billets that were changed to civilian billets.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I guess I'm a little out of the loop here, so I've got to ask. If I'm understanding you guys right, they are going to take finance and supply from the small units, and if I need anything I'll call the SK (wherever they may be)and they'll take care of it?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

That's what the COMDT's saying. Everything for you would be centrally located, and someone else would take care of all your money problems and keep the books.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Man, I can't wait for that to go down. I know we will lose a little freedom on the purchase side, but think of all the headaches we'll get rid of. The money we'll save on Tylenol and Motrin alone could buy more PPE.

Oh, wait a second. It'll probably go to deep water.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Ian are you saying your SK at your unit provides you with headaches more than support??

v/r

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Eric, my SK is my XPO. Our support SK's are 400 miles away, and other than PES reconciliation do very little for us. I have the same issue as most small units in the CG...My XPO spends a lot of time doing supply and finance, when he could be U/W, trng the crew, mentoring, ect...

Anyway, my point was that those headaches (job) would go up the chain to people that are payed and have the time to do it. It would take away some of the stress, and let us concentrate on what we're supposed to be doing.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

It's not the SKs that give you the headaches,...or the heartaches. It's the money and documenting it. Again, I don't have an Sk at the unit. The XPO does it all. But it would be better for us if someone else took care of all of that, somewhere else.......... I'd like to be able to call someone and have them send me what I needed. I'd like to be able to do all that without worrying what I had left, or if I did everything right. I want all the stuff, and none of the grief........

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

I can agree with you Stu to a point. Less headaches and heartache is a good thing. Provided that when the move of those services occurs you don;t lose control over your money. Meaning that you are waiting for someone elses work schedule and their approval for your purchase request and the like.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Gentlemen,

You WILL lose active control of your books if and when this happens. Most everything you order WILL be micromanaged to a level that it doesn't need to be and often your requisitions will be questioned by people who have no idea what your mission is.

I think this is a very bad move on the part of the Coast Guard. Not because I'm a storekeeper mind you, but because from experience, I can forsee REAL headaches that will come as a result of these changes. NOT for the SK, but for the UNIT!

Ultimately it is my job to support my unit/s as the case may be. This change will do little to truly support you and much to micromanage what you do. Remember you heard it hear first.

As far as the SK being the XPO, I thought the SK was supposed to be the SPO? If so, it is specifically written that he is NOT to be doing all that "high speed, low drag" operational stuff SO THAT he can concentrate on the books so they aren't a headache for you.

~puts on his flak jacket as he knows the BMs will probably chime in.. some in agreement and some in disagreement~

v/r

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

As far as the SK being the XPO, I thought the SK was supposed to be the SPO? If so, it is specifically written that he is NOT to be doing all that "high speed, low drag" operational stuff SO THAT he can concentrate on the books so they aren't a headache for you.

I think you misunderstood my comment Eric. I do not have an SK on board the unit, and the nearest one in my food chain is 400 miles away. The XPO (BM1) is my SK. This is nothing new or a recent change. It was like this during my two tours as XPO, and many years before that. I just believe there are much more important things our senior BM's could be doing other than Finance and Supply. As I stated before, about the only thing SK's at the Sector level do for me is reconcil PES and tell me when an FTA comes in. All other things are done by my crew.

I also see where your coming from on the micromangment side and I agree to the point, but I truly believe I would rather have that then continuing to run like we are now. The XPO at a small unit is not only an SK they're also a YN, GM, HS, OS, and depending on how bad the cook is they could be the FSO as well. All of this usually ends up coming before them actually being a BM. If the CG is having a hard time meeting requirements or passing audits, then I say by all means send the all finance and supply up the people that are trained to do the job.

Kind of got on a rant there, but hopefully you get the point.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

You are right Ian, I did misunderstand to a point. Meaning that my understanding was that an SK1 is billeted at most CG Stations nowadays and I thought you were stationed at one that had an SK1 there. Why I assumed that I don't know... ~shrugs~

However my comment is to the stations that have the SK1 billet. That SK1 is not the XPO (obviously) but further that the SK1 is NOT to be operational as per the SPO billet instructions.

All that to say that I think the Coast Guard would be wise to have an SK at the smaller units. That SK function is to have their ear on the deckplates of the unit and the knowledge and expertise to get things done on the supply side of the house. This would relieve the burden from your BM1s out there who are your XPOs and have more operational type things to do than to be spending time doing SK work.

However, if the Station has the SK then the SK should be doing SK work as his PRIORITY; not being watch qual, cox qual, messcook qual, radio qual, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Which is where the CO or OIC or NCOIC of the station needs to make sure that the SK is freed up to do his task. That is how and why the instruction was written that way.

Trust me when I tell you that the minute the smaller units begin losing SKs you aren't going to have the freedom to order, or freedom of budget that you do now.

As an old crusty Master Chief told me when I was a second class.. "ALWAYS fight to the death to keep a billet" There is great wisdom in that statement.

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, they can only micromanage if they're allowed to. The COMDT said "envision a time when you will be able to call someone up and have the parts you need sent to you." He didn't mention that someone would question every call that we, at the units, make. The system is designed to help the operational units. To remove one of their burdens and allow them to focus on their primary mission. I think that all the angles will be addressed before its implemented. Will it include growing pains....... of course.....but all change does. I can understand why an SK would be more skeptical of the practical applications,....... but when someone tells me that I can look forward to the day when I will never have to think about being audited............ it's the gift horse in the mouth thing. I don't care where the money is, I just want some when I need it.

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

I have to agree with Eric on this one. I think it would be a mistake to take away the SK's from the small units. I have done the XPO(SK) thing and I did not like it. Now I am at a unit with an SK and love it. There are definately growing pains. My SK billet is an E5, well....in my scenario our first SK stationed here was an SK2, had independant duty and was all over this stuff. I checked often on the books, just because it seemed to be going to well! Things were perfect though.

Now...new SK shows up, not an SK2, but an SK right from school. No worries, he'll get where he needs to be and probably will be a better SK from it. Bottom line, myself and the XPO and U/W more often, deal with different issues, etc. Just my two cents

CS

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Chris, they're not talking about simply taking your SK away,...... they're also taking away what he does. No more Purchase Orders, no more brown sheets, no more tracking down quotes, .......... Think about how much time your XPO spends doing these things, even if you have an SK. Now think about what he could be doing........ You're still checking the books.....often. Wouldn't it be better if you didn't have the books in the first place ?

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Master Chief,

Very respectfully if your unit has an SK, and your XPO is spending an inordinate amount of time doing Purchase Orders and tracking down quotes then your SK is not doing his job and your XPO is being mismanaged.

The "brown sheets" or PRs will normally need to be done by the division/department requesting the supplies or services and that will not change whether you have an SK or not. But POs and RFQs? Free up your XPO and tell your SPO to "step up to the plate"

v/r

[BMC Ken Gouge]

The COMDT said "envision a time when you will be able to call someone up and have the parts you need sent to you."

He also didn't mention the part where you can't say "SK1, look at this broken thing, I need a new one just like it, but not broke"

If we lose them, we have to do it by phone and e-mail and having the wrong part brought to your cutter via helo while underway because someone thought they knew what you meant... We just had a bunch of guru's come and take nearly ALL the spare parts off our cutter so that we don't have to manage them. Sounds good in theory (I guess :confused: ) but I hope we don't end up drifting around the ocean with broken things awaiting parts.

Per the SPO instruction, they were also to take over YN type admin functions and property management. Some people didn't like that though and started making their SK's get qualified watchstander, boat crew etc.

edited to add:
I think the property thing (at least once a year) and some of the mind-numbing admin paperwork is as big a headache as finance.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Quote: Per the SPO instruction, they were also to take over YN type admin functions and property management. Some people didn't like that though and started making their SK's get qualified watchstander, boat crew etc.

This is a deviation from policy to make your SK get qualified to do all of the things the instruction specifically says not to.

My understanding, unless I am wrong is that the unit does not have the authority to violate policy based on individual needs.

I agree with you Ken on the fact that with the SK present, you have someone who has their eyes and ears on the deckplates of operations. If your SK is free to do what he is supposed to be doing and thereby taking the burden off of your XPOs and the like, then it should be "win-win" for the unit.

But as I stated earlier, there is a reason the instruction on SPOs was written that way.

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric you're not getting it. I'm taking it that you have never been at a unit small enough to have an XPO. It doesn't matter if you have an SK attached or not, the unit is still responsible for the books. The XPO still needs to verify what the SK is doing. The unit still has to answer for the money. Find me a unit that would keep that responsibility if they didn't have to. It would be like having a checking account that you never had to balance. You just keep calling the bank and they keep paying your bills. As long as you can show that you need it, they keep paying. I don't need to go into the bank and talk to the teller, I just use the ATM......and if they have a drive thru, even better.
Eric your win-win is a lose-lose for me. Under the COMDT's plan I walk away care free. Under your plan I still have the books and what ever issues another person on my PAL brings.

Ken, how much of the stuff the they took during the FUIRP, have you needed. Speaking of the documenting thing, they should have only taken what you had sitting on the shelves, unused, for three, five, or seven years. And they didn't throw it out. It's centrally located somewhere. Where, I don't know, but it isn't collected dust here, and another CG unit doesn't need to order another one, because they can use the one I never did.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Master Chief,

I understand where you are coming from. I guess it comes down to deciding whether you'd rather have the deckplate SK that can truly understand your unit need and the freedom of purchasing and budgeting that it allows coupled with the headaches of checking the books and any personnel issues that MIGHT come along with it.

vice

Having no control over the budget, no freedom of spending, no immediate understanding of unit needs at the deckplate level and loosing the extra billet (body), but at the same time not having to deal with any personnel issues that MIGHT come as a result and having to check over the books.

Me I take the former... every day of the week. Make me a believer Master Chief.. why in the world would you want to take the latter? I'd like to hear multiple BM types chime in on this with an honest perspective. There seems to be disagreement even among your own rate on this. Great topic!!

(Note: edited for clarity)

v/r

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

I thought having an SK2 or an SK1 at a Station was a good thing. Doesn’t having the SK free up the XPO to do more important work, like saving lives?

If it works, why mess with it?

What if I need a part, I know what it is and I know I have a local supplier that will get it to me. If the centralized SK is tasked to get it for me, how will I know I will get actually what I need and when I need it. Maybe I can save the CG money by having a better understanding than some SK parked in an office 500 miles away?

The one thing that no one, not even SKs, will miss is reconciliation.

When I was at the MLC one of my jobs was to help units prepare for the property portion of the Compliance Inspection. Most of the time the units got passing grades. Why? Because they paid attention to what was required of them to pass. The units that just did not care failed the inspection.

If the SK rating is centralized, who will take care of property? The already overworked BM1 or BMC? A civilian?

Where will the SKs be stationed? Support Centers? ISCs? MLCs? HQ?

I’m sure SKs will look forward to the day when they will no longer have to go to sea, since under this plan it appears their function will be shore based. Doesn’t that remove another body from the cutters and more importantly, take away the chance to experience what its like to go to sea?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, you lost me again...... where did I wind up with no control over the budget and when did I ever have freedom of spending. I'm looking to the day when I have no budget to control, and I've always had to be able to explain ever purchase you ever make. I'm also at a loss of when I had an deckplate SK who understood my unit's need. I'm also not losing a billet that I never had it in the first place.
If you're asking me if I want them to send me an SK to take the burden off of my XPO, I'd say yes. If you ask if I'd rather just give up all the documentation and have someone else handle all my money needs, I'll go with that.

Ray, it's not working. It's working on a CG level, service wide. When you hear the COMDT speak on the matter he will tell you that we need to change the way we do business, because we are bringing the rest of the deptartment down. We need to change the way we do business. And you keep addressing this like I have an SK at my unit doing the things that you do. I don't.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Yes Master Chief, that is EXACTLY what I'm saying. I didn't know I was being so confusing, and for that I'm sorry I'll try and be more clear.

The SPO idea is to have an SK1 billet or SK2 billet at each of the smaller CG units to do EXACTLY that, take the burden off of your operational types.

The SPO idea started with the larger stations and if it works was originally intended to spread out to the rest of the smaller units in the Coast Guard. Meaning those units that don't currently have an SK were supposed to eventually get one based on the Station SPO prototype program.

At least this was the thought at the inception of the program. I'm not sure if with the New COMDT and his vision if this program is going by the wayside.. which is what it sounds like.

The only downside to having that SK at the local unit level would be twofold:

1. That you would still need to verify the books (the SK's work)
2. Any personnel issues that the particular SK brings to your unit (which would happen with any billet/person)

Does that make more sense? Or am I still confusing you?

v/r

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Eric, I'm getting the impression that you think there are SK's at a lot of small units which is not true. There is a list of units (STA's) that have an SK, but this is nowhere near the norm, but is the exception. The unit's that don't include some STA's, ANT's, Inland Tenders, River Tenders, Construction Tenders and 87's (chime in if I forgot any folks). Yes, there is a small % of small units that will lose an SK if this happens, but it is not the majority.

[CWO Chris Sparkman (BMC)]

It doesn't matter if you have an SK attached or not, the unit is still responsible for the books. The XPO still needs to verify what the SK is doing. The unit still has to answer for the money. Find me a unit that would keep that responsibility if they didn't have to. It would be like having a checking account that you never had to balance.

I guess I need to see exactly what the policy would be. As I read MC's above statement I agree, who would keep that responsibility if they didn't have to.

But....what would the procurement process be???? I'll agree if the procurement process stays the way it is. Supervisor creates PR, forwards to me, I forward to XPO who apporves and gives to the SK to buy. wham bam, I get what I need. No questions ask. ?

Now....if we have to submit a PR from the supervisor, to the XPO or myself, who then must submit it to the Sector/Group SK, who then submits to thier Funds Official, who then approves, or....sends back asking for justification.....then hell no!

If this is all about accountability, then I can't see the first option working. Ordering the way we do, but not having any responsibility for the books?? The way we're doing it now, there are check and balances. In my opinion, if units are sending PR's to the Sector/groups and I'm the Approving official on the other end, then I want to know what/where/why, etc.

I don't know....maybe I'm missing the whole bubble on what is going to happen. I'm all for the FUIRP thinking, absolutely the best thing that could have happen, but not when it comes to the basic unit procurement needs. I did this as a small unit. Submit the paperwork to the parent unit....ahhh, what a bunch of crap that was!

I do know that the SK at my unit has helped tremedously. Property, admin, Collateral duties, these are just of few of numerous other things that the SK performs at my unit. He by no means just makes mail runs and make purchases. He also by no means has any operational responsibility, no comm watch, no crew, no btm.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Ian,

No, I realize that many units do not have a dedicated SK. The plan originally was to see how it worked with the SK1 at the STA and then if it worked well to begin to re-align the SK billeting structure to provide for SKs at the units that don't have one billeted. (Meaning taking them out of the larger SECTOR type units and sending those billets to the field.. SK2 and SK1 billets) That is how the program was originally discussed.

Chris,

Sounds like you have benefited a great deal from your deckplate SK. But it also sounds like he is doing what he was sent there to do and you haven't burdened him with other taskings that are not part of his purpose at your unit. To answer your question.. yes that is exactly what this vision is headed toward.. you dealing with SKs hundreds of miles away and their approval chain.

~glances around~ I'm surprised more of you aren't up in arms over this... Again, I'm leaving the rate and going into Recruiting again so it won't affect me.. I'm in the process right now of closing out my final fiscal year... but I will be thinking of you guys.. when this change comes.. ~braces for impact~

v/r

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I agree with Stu. Sign me up for the plan the COMDT wants to start. My ISC has more SK's than most of us need and we just found a 4k error(-) in the reconciled purchases. Fix that problem so the blame is not on me. I bet, if as an OIC, I spent 4k more than i have, some one will be questioning my abilities; but what will happen to tose same SKs? It is broke, and hopefully ADM Allen can fix it!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

But you're the one saying that it's going to be an approval nightmare,...... that's not what the COMDT is telling us to look forward to. He wants us to look to a time when you can call someone up and tell them want you need, and then you get it. All of the burden is taken off of the operational unit. You tell them what you need, and they get it done. They do all the paperwork. They get you what you need. You're acting like they're looking at making our life harder, where I see it as them making my life easier.

I can understand if you are questioning whether or not it will be that simple, but that's what being advertised. You call an SK and tell them what you need, and they get it done. You know there are agencies out there that actually run this way.

This boils down to how we have viewed things in our career. I've spent alot of time in AtoN. At the end of the year we close out our books. They freeze our accounts. But I know that there's still money out there somewhere. If I have to respond to a discrepancy, the money will show up. If I have to repair something, the money will show up. It always has. It always will. If we go to this new system, and people try to second guess my every move, and micromanage, it will only work up to the point where I can't respond to that first Aid. Then they will be told from someone on high how they need to respond to requests from operational units. Faith, is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. I have faith in the system.

The COMDT is making his rounds. He can put your fears to rest. Just a little faith......

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Master Chief,

Appreciate your biblical quote from the writer to the Hebrews.. and I too have faith. But my faith is not in promises that are not founded in facts and evidence. You are correct in saying that is the promise.. "A day when you can tell them what you need and then you get it" sounds great. Now had God Himself given this promise, I would believe and not doubt.

But God didn't... the Admiral did. How many promises from "on high".. how many programs from "on high" have you seen come and go that caused more confusion and backpedaling than forward progress for our beloved service?

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.. from my Recruiting Office in Albuquerque...

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, it isn't an Admiral....it's the COMDT saying it. And I haven't seen any programs that came down from on high that didn't produce results. The confusion is usually caused by the people unwilling to except the change. How many policies have you seen this COMDT send down, from any point in his career, that weren't meeting our service's needs ?


And since you're bringing God into it, he has made you many promises, so relax. Give unto Caesar .... it's all going to work out.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Respectfully Master Chief, as far as bringing "God" into it. I'm not the one who quoted from the New Testament. I was just responding. When you quote His Word, you have already brought Him in to the conversation. I'm glad you did though, it is refreshing to see His Word quoted. Faith is something very special.

But back to topic, I don't want you to think that I'm down on Admiral Allen. Let me say very clearly that I am NOT against the Commandant or his policy! I am very pleased to be a part of the Allenguard. He and MCPO-CG "Skip" Bowen are an exciting, dynamic and "hands on" kind of team. I honestly can say that already they are making visible headway. I look forward to the changes that they bring. Honestly, I can't say I've ever been this excited about our most senior leadership.

My comments have to do with the expertise that I bring to the mess from my specific rating and the challenges we face in taking care of our customers from a distance, in having unit's requisitions micromanaged to the point of frustration.. for you our customer.

Master Chief, we are on the same team, we both want the same thing. I want to provide you with the BEST possible service, with the LEAST amount of headaches. I want to free you to accomplish your operational mission!

But just because someone "promises" that you should "envision a day" does not make it so. I'm not resistant to the change, I think there should be MORE change, I just feel that the direction of the Admiral's coming changes are the wrong direction, and that the customer (YOU) would be better served with a different avenue.

Yes.. I see why, and where they are going with this. It all revolves around the Almighty dollar. This all stems from the failure of the Coast Guard to meet the CFO Audit. I believe if we continue down this path, we might actually eventually pass the CFO Audit, but in the end we will be doing a disservice to YOU the customer and consequently to the American people who are OUR customer.

I suppose we can agree to disagree agreebly, but in the end whatever the COMDT decides will happen, and the Coast Guard will continue to function.

I would like to envision a day when you simply were told here is your $300,000.00. That is all you get for the year, use it however you like, go to Kinkos if it makes you feel good. Here are 5 credit cards for your unit buy whatever you want whenever you want, but don't exceed your budget. There are no rules, no Federal Aquisition Regulations, no Anti-deficiency Criminal Laws, no rules whatsover.. go and do whatever you want.. just spend no more than we give you. Have fun and next year we'll give you some more money to spend. But THAT will NEVER happen.

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, go see him speak. Listen to what he's accomplished in his career. He has less than four years left. If he says he's going to make it happen...... I gotta believe him. His whole life has been CG. How many people can say that ? He has our best interests in the forefront of his mind....always. He isn't going to sell this service or the nation short by meeting the CFO audit at the cost of our missions.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

I hate to bring us all back to reallity here but, the last time I looked at my ID card it said that the Coast Guard is part of the military. Very different than a civilian agency. We are part of the DHS but we should not be expected to act as a civilian agency does. Maybe there is something to be said for being part of the DoD.

People that work for the Border Patrol (for example) have no clue as to what it's like to have to be out in the middle of no where at 0' dark thirty. Broke down, waiting for a part.

Wanna a good, real world example of this? Back at MLC we had to prepare some floating units for an IG audit. One of the units, (I think it was at a 270 out of Boston) called to complain that these clowns at the IG actually expected units that had just come back into port after being away for 90 days to submit to their precious little audit. All the crew wanted to do was to get the hell off the boat and see their families. All the IG guys wanted to do was shine a flashlight where the sun don't shine.

Has any of the operational members (BMs, QMs, etc) ever been through this sort of thing?

Point is, unless they are prior military, some or most sillyvilians have no clue as to what the "real" Coast Guard goes through. I would hate to trade saving a few $$$ for operational readiness.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Master Chief,

I believe that you believe you are right. I also believe that there are pressures on him unlike any that you or I have personal knowledge of.

The pressure on DHS from the Commander in Chief trickles down to the one Section of the one department that is causing the entire Federal Government to single handedly fail the CFO Audit. The United States Coast Guard.

That is a LOT of pressure Master Chief on Adm Allen! I'm also certain that the Adm has the best intentions for the Coast Guard mirrored up to that pressure for compliance. Of this I have no doubt, his heart for the Coast Guard and best intentions I do believe in.

However, while I believe in this senior leadership partnership, I still believe that to centralize storekeepers is a bad move. I've been one too long to know. I've seen the changes, watched the issues, seen them change back to the way they were and flip them back again.. I've watched 16 years worth of this stuff... I've played the SK game, and firmly believe that no SKs were involved in the making of this decision.

Master Chief, out of the 1700+ SKs in the Coast Guard, I bet you couldn't find 20 that would agree that it is a good move to centralize all SKs, and that should tell you something.

I think that whatever comes down the pike, we can "make it work" we can do the best with what we have to work with, but I still don't think it is the right answer for MY customer (YOU) and OUR customer (John Q. Taxpayer).

v/r

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Eric, not a good measuring stick. I better you couldn't have found one QM who wanted to be a BM, but........... that seems to have worked out.
The service changes to meet our needs.

And the Coast Guard might have single handily brought the DHS down in the CFO audit, ..... but ask the taxpayers if they care. We're the Coast Guard. We more visible than we have been at anytime in my short memory. For many we are the one shiny point in the government, the one thing that people can count on. The COMDT isn't going to tarnish that. He will find a way to make it work without failing our missions.

Ray were you joking with this ?
People that work for the Border Patrol (for example) have no clue as to what it's like to have to be out in the middle of no where at 0' dark thirty. Broke down, waiting for a part.

I've towed them in. And they don't do their own paperwork.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Interesting stuff here. I've been on leave a while but if an ET may chime in. At an ESD we have no SK. There is only a single SK1 (active duty) and if the ESU is lucky they can get a reserve Chief to come on active duty for a while. The property, OM&S is all handled by the techs. All members of my shop can do up 30 PR's and the two first class can generate a 42 PR for apporval at ESU. I have one guy with a credit card an I do the approvals. We try to follow the SPP manual and are not always perfect but PR's are done and MILSTRIP's submitted via CMPLUS.
SK's don't fire yet. I would love to have a system where my tech's are not required to deal with any part of the procurement process other than identifying the needed part. Unfortunatly this procedure is not yet in play. Centralized Supply on 378's was less than perfect to say the least. I can speak for other classes of ships that had the system. I do not like the idea of losing SK's. IF as presented in other posts all the paperwork and reporting requirements go away, then great however if I call up or email or click a drop down arrow on a webbased program (God help those of you in isolated areas with slow internet connections) and I'm told I can't get what I want then forget it. DON'T give me an SK but give me an extra ET and I'll train him to be a supply petty officer and the techs will have a better duty rotation.
As far a FUIRP well that process was far less in depth than I expected it to be. The only items that were inventoried at this location (and others near by) were items that we told them to inventory. Basically they inventoried items that was tracked in CMPLUS. Though we had very few items that were hidden for what ever reason, other units had entire Vidmars that were never opened. The only items that were removed were items in CMPLUS with no demand created in the past few years. If your stock of widgetts were not in CMPLUS no no big deal you didn't have to give them up because they weren't inventoried. I have used the Part request tool and it works but I will put very little stock in the FUIRP process actually informing the Coast Guard of what it really has in all those Vidmnars and racks. I think we are getting closer but we have a long way to go.

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

Okay, you got me on that one, bad example.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Ron, completely agree, we're going backwards losing the support petty officer at the unit. If I understand correctly I will have to call Sector and say, "I need a stapler". The SK there will say, "Why do you need a stapler?" Some JO will say "We bought your station three staplers two years ago." I might finally get a stapler after jumping through hoops. Right now I can say, "My stapler broke, order a new one." A day or so later I have a stapler, back to real work.
That's my five minute rant, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Dave, do you have a desk by the window with squirrels outside, is it a
swingline stapler?

Eric, under the not for nothing title.......

But...... I've served with SKs in the Messes that I've been a part of,

Not for nothing but ah...ay oh...Of course I already know this, but you just gave away the fact that some of those SK's you served with were in or from NY.

.. watch for me on HBO..////
As far as the SK being the XPO, I thought the SK was supposed to be the SPO? If so, it is specifically written that he is NOT to be doing all that "high speed, low drag" operational stuff SO THAT he can concentrate on the books so they aren't a headache for you.

The SPO idea is to have an SK1 billet or SK2 billet at each of the smaller CG units to do EXACTLY that, take the burden off of your operational types.

Master Chief, out of the 1700+ SKs in the Coast Guard, I bet you couldn't find 20 that would agree that it is a good move to centralize all SKs, and that should tell you something.



What show is that Eric the guy version of Sex in the City? :p

Seriously, I think you misinterpretted that second part, having been an XPO at two units, I can tell you the BM XPO is the SK, the YN, the HS, sometimes the GM, etc... you get the idea? It's harder to imagine if you haven't been at a smaller unit (less than 20 people) but all the jobs still need to get done and while support is there, the XPO is the guy who has to ensure continuity and ensuring that the support knows what the customers are needing. I think it would be better to have centralized system because then all SK's would learn the trends as to what all the different types of units need's are. Ex almost every station is asking for similar stuff when one asks for something off the wall they might have to justify it. Keeps us all honest and ensures money is getting spent appropriately. I don't buy the jumping through hoops bit for that very reason. If its a need, someone else is asking for it and it's been done or bought before.

Damn, see what I get for jumping in a thread after it's 5 pages deep? Ian already hit up on the same things but I Am not revising at this point ;)

As far as SK's at the unit, I don't have one now either. Whenever I need assistance from the SK's I call up the Sector SKC or 1 and they do a great job of giving me all the support I need over the phone! I don't need to ever see them face to face unless it's to get FPD to reflect what my XPO's ledger (more accurate than FPD) says. So with the new plan, my XPO doesn't have to keep a ledger or worry about funds. How do I lose in the new set up? I don't see the negative.

Man, I don't want to seem like I am picking on you Eric, please don't take it that way, but you just praised God then you referred to the root of all evil as the "Allmighty..." :confused:

As for the # of SK's that would say it was a good idea, how many BM's and QM's do you think thought the merger was a good idea before it happened? How many do now? Wow, I really need to keep up with threads better. Master Chief got that one too.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I think I will take the "wait and see" approach. I am 200+ miles from the nearest SK (not including my BM1). I like having access to a credit card so we can buy stuff locally that we may need and can't wait for. My only concern with what has been talked about here, is how long it may take to get the SK that is supposed to support my unit to get the job done. In my past XPO experience, I have often had to go sit in the SK or YN office and physically stay there until I witnessed the job getting done. Not to say that is a common thing, but it happens. It is easy to sit in an office with a bunch of other folks and put stuff in the "in box". Get to it whenever. Go on leave and get to it when you get back...

[BMC John Phillips III]

I just want to add that if we had a centralized account where one group of SK's dealt strictly with one type of unit, like Stations, WMEC's or WPB's etc. That would increase their total knowledge on how to support those specific units and again, see several units ordering the same items or filling the same needs, they could stock pile centralized parts much like we are already doing at ELCs and other type support units. It would be a matter of having 4 or 5 of something on the shelf expecting that one of the units that needs it would be calling. Then again, when a unit asks for something off the wall like I don't know a plasma screen TV, they might have to justify it. I haven't been to any unit's that had plasmas but I sure have visited some :rolleyes:

Also with the way we see Taxes on our budgets and we all always end up scrambling to spend that money that is given back to us at the end of the year, the taxing units could just keep all the money and ensure it is distributed equitably and there is no abuse of funds at the end of each year.

I am sorry, I must be old school, but I try to buy everything using the appropriate sources. At a minimum, I try to buy as many things through GSA as I can. I am not a big fan of Home Depot, Walmart or Best Buy shopping sprees. Unless I can justify items being cheaper there. But I guarantee you I can find just about any item you can find at one of those stores on gsaadvantage.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

In my new quest to correct all things mis-quoted...... It's not that money is the root of all evil,.(except maybe in the Pink Floyd song).......the original quote goes ........"for the love of money, is the root of all evil."

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Could part of the resistance to this be that most SK's have one job, being an SK and most BMs have several? If my only job was to drive a boat and you treid to tell me how to do it, I would be hurt. But, its not and when someone wants to give me more time to drive a boat and less time doing the SKs job, then I give up that part, in a skinny dang minute!

[BMC John Phillips III]

Here is another quote for you Master Chief,

something borrowed (the quote) something blue (our uniforms)
something old (you), something new (me) :D

here is where the new part really comes in:
http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/moneyisthero.html
according to that, you are more extreme. Like I needed a dictionary to tell me that...

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Wow.. JP3 you really know how to stir things up late in a thread... but I'll shoot my .02 cents at ya...

HBO comment: No not Sex in the City male version.. rather HBO Sports. I have been fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time and meet the right people. As a result I have my foot in the door as a Boxing Promoter. I have already worked with many top names, including: HBO Boxing After Dark, ESPN2 Tuesday Night Fights, Golden Boy Promotions, Main Events, Bedford Agency, Top Rank Inc., De La Hoya, Vargas, Lampley, Steward, Leija, Atlas, Buffer, Lederman, Solis, etc...

I have also made good friends with some world champion boxers.. I enjoy being involved in the sport, and was fortunate enough to meet up with the right people to pursue my dreams. That is what I meant by that comment.

SK at the smaller unit comment: I know many of you don't have them, I think my stance on this is clear, we'll see how things shake up. Either way, publicly I will support the decision of my Commandant, whatever it may be provided it isn't illegal.

God comment: Yes I praised God. No I was being sarcastic when I referred to the "Almighty Dollar", I thought that was rather clear. The world sees the dollar as their object of affection my friend.. not me. Master Chief had it correct.. money itself is not evil, it is the adoration of money that the Scripture says is the root of all evil.

Good to have you back on the thread...

v/r

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Another interesting aspect of reducing the active duty folks on the beach is that then the only place they have to go is underway. I've done 3 378's and was a nonrate on a 210 so no big deal in my mind but take a look at the cooks. There is a reason they always have a SRB, same for the old RD's. If you take away an SK's shore billets they will eventually have retention issues. Nature of the beast. Then we start paying out of our operational budget for SRB's and school graduation bonus's.

[BMC Mark C. Lewis]

My last station had a SK for my last year. We had only 19 persons assigned. I am still on the fence of whether it was a plus or a pain. She could not seem to understand about buying stuff for an operational unit. Especially a small unit on an island.

She did not do any operational duties. My XPO and I spent a lot of time trying to teach her how to be a YN, I left before she seem to get a handle on it.

[BMC John Phillips III]

HBO comment: No not Sex in the City male version.. rather HBO Sports. I have been fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time and meet the right people. As a result I have my foot in the door as a Boxing Promoter. I have already worked with many top names, including: HBO Boxing After Dark, ESPN2 Tuesday Night Fights, Golden Boy Promotions, Main Events, Bedford Agency, Top Rank Inc., De La Hoya, Vargas, Lampley, Steward, Leija, Atlas, Buffer, Lederman, Solis, etc...

No I was being sarcastic when I referred to the "Almighty Dollar", I thought that was rather clear.
v/r

Eric, that's cool! I was joking about sex and the city thing, I read later on in the thread where you talked about the boxing. I am a big boxing fan or was rather, my philosophy on boxing is, if you don't knock the other guy out it's anybodies game cause you can't rely on the judges. Anyway, good luck with that! Do you plan on growing your hair out ala Don King? :p

And I kinda picked up on the sarcasm and even though I am not super religious, it may be considered sacrilege to refer to anything or one as the Almighty with exception of God ;)

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Here is REALITY. Stand by, I am now going to vent:
I have a Range light that gets vandalized quite a bit. $8500.00 in damage this FY. I have a few dollars at the end of the year and would like to get a fence put up around the range. It won't stop the bullets, but it will keep the "riff raff" off the aid. I got a quote from a company across the river for $3700.00. A couple more quotes for more $$$. I sent these down to our SK's to do a PO, but because this is more than 2k it has to go out for contract with a formal scope of work and all the other BS that goes along with contracting for a 27' X 27' square fence. ALSO, the bidders must be "registered" in CCR (whatever the hell that is). Now the bids are coming in at around 8K and we don't have that kind of money and we need to be done spending today. The origional bid that I got for the $3700.00 is from a company that put up some fences for ACOE, but apparently is not "registered" so the Coast Guard cannot use them unless the "register".
I know that FEMA is a financial embarassment to the Federal Gov't. It makes me wonder though, where the Coast Guard is falling short in it's financial management. I would guess that it has more to do with property than anything else. Now COMD'T want's to centralize SK's? For hell sake, I think we need to give SK's a little more autonomy, to get the best deal out there. Why spend $300.00 for the same hammer that we can get for $16.00 at Home Depot? We have more freaking people involved in a $3700.00 fence then it is worth. It will now probably cost 8K for the contractor and another 3K in gov't employee time to jump through the hoops and chase our tails. How in the world is centralizing SK's going to make this easier or better for us? Every time we ask for something we are going to get 15 data calls. :mad:

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Preach it Senior!!! I'm so with you on this. Why not allow for that autonomy, with the checks and balances being with the unit level.

In our world, you'd have gotten your fence with no worries.

((Oh and to JP3, no.. I'll probably never grow out my hair a la Don King.. but recently I was in a car with a very influential boxing person who hung up on Don King... while I was with this influential type in the car.. hehehe))

v/r

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Jim,
Buy the fence and install it yourself. It is not hard and it saves all the bull hockey. Besides, it hunting season there right? Need a TAD BMC?

Burt

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Jim,
Buy the fence and install it yourself. It is not hard and it saves all the bull hockey. Besides, it hunting season there right? Need a TAD BMC?

Burt

You are killing me man! LMAO

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Burt, that is just what I am planning to do. The only problem is that it is 2.5 hours from the unit and the ground is all basalt rock. Not fun trying to dig post holes in that. It will be duck season before we get to it, so I will have a shotgun handy just in case. ;)

[BMC John Phillips III]

Answers are never out of reach of those willing to find them. I haven't ever heard that anywhere, so feel free to use it at will.

Oh and Eric, I would hang up on Don King too, but he might have me killed. Sorry, that wasn't called for, but you must know about DK's past.

[BMCS Dave Considine]

JP3

Your getting close to 600 posts, will we see your certificate on Ebay??

Dave

[BMC John Phillips III]

I don't know, I wouldn't post it for me, but I would sign it for someone else to make it more valuable. That last post of mine though, that's pretty good stuff even if I do say so myself. That would have made a good 600th post. But here I go again hi-jacking a thread :D I will go back and delete an outdated post so this one doesn't count towards my total ;)

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Senior, did you check the post FUIRP PARTS search tool to see if they had a fence? :D

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

That is a good idea!!! What I did do, is shake the tree long and hard enough to make some fruit fall. Sure would be easier if we just had a ladder though.

[BMC John Phillips III]

What is it a ladder or a fence? you can't have it all you know!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

He would like to use off the shelf replacement for ATON assets not devolope new CG Assets.

Too bad ADM COLLINS didn't look at deepwater in that light......

Wray.... :cool: