Sector Corpus Christi's "New" Policy on CPOA Attendance

[MKC Harold Whitt]

From an email this morning From the CO of Enlisted personel concerning an opening in the April Class:

Folks,

Maximizing the CPO Academy graduation rate among the Sector's entire Chief's Mess is one of our Commander's high-priority goals. Strongly consider forwarding to TQC the name of any CPO under your supervision (not already a graduate) for attendance in this class. We recognize there is never a good time to send a key leader TDY for 33 days, but we consider this investment vital to achieving our Command's Vision and Goals. The command has directed that all CPOs complete the Academy by the end of next calendar year (2007), and a schedule for completion should be part of the IDP discussion between each CPO and their supervisor.

The command has also directed that it be informed of any proposed CPO Academy class cancellations for CPOs within the Sector. Our goal will be to find the section or unit a suitable backfill so that the cancellation is not necessary. Proposed cancellation notifications shall be forwarded to at least Master Chief Glover and I.

Please contact myself, Master Chief Glover, or LTjg Carabin (Sector training) if you have any questions.

Regards, msc

What is your take?

Harold

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

From what I can see of the statement, it is good to the point of "The Command is directing".

To "strongly encourage" speaks loudly enough as to the Command's desire. But to "direct" makes it an order that must be complied with.

I know for a fact that the Academy staff does not want CPOs who are being forced to be there, who are there to "punch the ticket" for E-8, or who don't want to be there.

The Command in Corpus seems to be wanting to do the right thing by supporting the CPO Academy, and supporting the CPOs in attending.

I think Sector Corpus' intentions and motives are right, but their escalation to an "order" can cause problems both at the Unit level and at the Academy level.

Having said that, I am a graduate of Academy Class 129 and I am a firm believer that all CPOs should go through the Academy. I am also a firm believer that the Coast Guard should adopt the NCO leadership courses that the other services have at the E4 and E5 level.

v/r

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I think that is is kind of a shame that it has come down to this at Corpus, or anywhere else in the Coast Guard for that matter. I am well aware of many people's reasoning for not wanting to go. Most of them has something to do with the whole "group hug" mentality. My response to that is, yes, there is some of that. That is the way the whole Nation has gone in the last generation or so. I did not go to the CPOA several years ago to participate in a group hug. I went because I was a Chief and that's what is expected of a Chief. That should be enough reason for anyone to go. It is "expected of a Chief". And you know what? I put a great deal of effort into it and I got a great deal out of it. Check your attitude at the airport and go because that is what is expected, not because that is what is "ordered".

[BMC Mark Lewis]

I have not gone yet and unsure if I am going to go. I plan on retiring in 3 years. Let someone that has more time left go.

[MKC Harold Whitt]

Please, Do not get me wrong I plan on attending I want to go, I even put it in my Sector Mandated IDP......

but after an 8 month deployment to the middle east , then a PCS to a whole 'nother country (South Texas) from California where our base of support (Family and friends), A new life altering promotion, and dealing with jobs - duties I never had before......
I am just personally NOT ass on fire hot to go TAD for 5 weeks....

and the Pre Req's can you imagine filling out the cool looking
Unit Performance Factors Profile for a Sector that just formed ....!

I could be smothered in the collapse of paper that would result in the mining of all that data

I know several Chiefs that want to remain or retire as just that...A Chief..
make Chief and move on at 20 !!!. In fact that was my goal in life, my wife has convinced me other wise, though she had the help of a few Chiefs too....

I would surely hate to attend a class with alot of folks who dont want to be there.

If there is such a push for it then why not get the MCPOCG and Commandant to change the policy and just say if you make E-7 you will go to this course .......but after something like your first 8 to 12 mos on the job,,,, I wouldnt even feel comfortable in the room much less be able to contribute anything meaningful to discussion if I were to attend in the next 6 mos

Harold

[BMC John Phillips III]

I know for a fact that the Academy staff does not want CPOs who are being forced to be there, who are there to "punch the ticket" for E-8, or who don't want to be there.

Having said that, I am a graduate of Academy Class 129 and I am a firm believer that all CPOs should go through the Academy. I am also a firm believer that the Coast Guard should adopt the NCO leadership courses that the other services have at the E4 and E5 level.

v/r

Eric, glad to see you here! It's good to see a fellow classmate posting. I wish more of them would.

I don't completely agree with the staff not wanting CPO's who are there to punch their ticket. I believe more so that they just don't want CPO's there exhibiting that attitude once they are there; bringing the rest of the class down. I was one of those that was pretty much there to punch my ticket. I went in with an open mind though and I found it (much like the rest of the class did) to be a great experience! I can't guarantee that every class that goes through will "get it" (as Master Chief Niece said) as much as ours did, but I can guarantee anyone who attends with an open mind will come out a better Chief for it. I am pretty sure you will agree with that, right?

I totally agree with the second paragraph I quoted you on!

As far as the Sector getting involved goes, well I guess if that's what it takes.

MKC, retiring should not keep you from attending, I promise you if you go, you will find it worth while. Don't worry too much about that Performance Profile sheet, use your network and get one from someone that's already done the research. Of course you need to get your personal life in order beforehand, that's expected, but I encourage you to go when you can.

JP3

[BMCM Bruce Bradley]

The CPOA should remain a choice and I totally disagree with a Commanding Officer mandating it. Sound like OER fodder and nothing else. Would this CO go as far as to mandate the CCTI also? I doubt it. Or require all CPOs to apply for CWO? I very highly doubt that too, but I had a Group CO a few years back who tried that one. Now I believe that all Chiefs should attend and participate in both the CPOA (or any of the service schools) and CCTI, no excuses. But as long as Commandant considers it a choice then it needs to remain so.

The reasons that Chiefs attend doesn't matter, to lead the group hug or to punch that ticket. They made the choice (see that choice thing again) and are getting exposure to not only the current flavor of leadership training but the invaluable network that continues to make Chiefs strong.

CPOA Class XL
USAF SNCOA Class 01-E
USA SMA 2004 (oh yeah I turned that one down)

[MSTCM C Stevenson]

Strongly consider forwarding to TQC the name of any CPO under your supervision (not already a graduate) for attendance in this class. We recognize there is never a good time to send a key leader TDY for 33 days, but we consider this investment vital to achieving our Command's Vision and Goals. The command has directed that all CPOs complete the Academy by the end of next calendar year (2007),

The delivery isn't smart. It makes no sense to dance with the strongly consider it thing when the command has, at the end of the day, directed it.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

The command has directed that all CPOs complete the Academy by the end of next calendar year (2007), and a schedule for completion should be part of the IDP discussion between each CPO and their supervisor.

Two things.

First, what's going to happen if a Chief doesn't go by the end of 2007?

Second, am I reading correctly that Chiefs are sitting through an Individual Development Plan?

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Eric started off with some very good points. The arguments that follow are also good points to consider.

There is no easy answer for this. But I do have a comparison/question.

Is "Fork and Knife" school for CWO's mandatory? That is a major jump in one's career as well as the jump from E6 to E7.

If it is, then why not make CPOA mandatory.

In my humble opinion:
LAMS should be mandatory for all E4 and E5, and reworked for those paygrades.
SPOLAM should be mandatory for all E6 and it should be taliored for an E6.
CPOA should be mandatory for all E7

I know that not all would agree with me on that but there it is. I for one dont think it would hurt to set up our advancement process so that when someone is above the cut, they must attend the required course BEFORE they could "Pin it on". For those times where Time will not permit that, well, work it out. They should be going very soon afterword. I know I know, the reality of that for a small service like ours it way down the line if ever. Folks would argue the whole advanced while underway thing. Then the "We just returned from a 2 1/2 month patrol!"


Harold, I fully understand your whole, "Just got back and want to relax" attitude. Turning around and departing for 33 days can be rough on a family that just got back together. Any command would need to take that into consideration before making its decision to send someone off.

It could be done. It would not be popular at first. But like anything give it time and we would just do it because it is the way things are done.

Remember how much greif was out there when we started, UTS, Direct Access or maybe CMPLUS for cutters. Now we look back and simply understand that is the way things are done.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem with it. It is a good course and ultimately everyone who comes out gets something out of it.

I think the Command down there is showing a comitment to the Chief's Corps and to the Junior Enlisted personnel by srongly encouraging CPOs to attend.

If a Sector Commander steps up and says I'm backing it, then other Sector Commanders around the Coast Guard should take notice of this and follow along. I would also like to se a Sector Commander or other senior leadership strongly encourage junior enlisted personnel to attend the LAMS Resident and or Non-Resident Course.

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Senior,

I think it is a great course and like I said before. I think SECTOR Corpus' motives were in the right place. I just think they made a mistake when they made it a direction vice a "strongly encouraged" statement.

A line was crossed with the whole "direction" thing, that made the entire statement an order. Again, I feel that if this order is carried out, you will have problems both at the unit and at the Academy level.

But I do agree that SECTOR's motives were in the right place and their support of the Mess is to be commended.

v/r

[BMCS Curtis Dewey]

Then you get ceratin Gru/Sector commanders who wont let their command cadre be gone TAD/leave that long. Sound familiar NOLA guys? How bout the wording of CO's and the "strong encouragement" to attend before signing off on a warrant app??

[PACS Steve Carleton]

For those of you in the D7 AOR -- Check ALLCOGARDSEVEN 012/05 on the Message Board.

Since Internet Release was not authorized I did not post the text.

What that tells me is that the issue of Chief's Academy Attendance has visibility at senior levels (RADM Peterman is the (P)LANTAREA Commander).

When I went to the Academy, VADM Allen did VTC's with his new job, it will have visibility at mst senior levels, as well it should.

If it is coming top down, then I don't think there will be any problems with Sector Commanders not letting their senior enlisted cadre attend.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Bottom line is- if you haven't been to the Academy, you should probably try and schedule a class that works for you and your command before you get "orders" to go.

[BMC Dave Carrig]

When going through the CPOA last October (Class 129) I seem to remember Master Chief Niece saying that mandatory participation was coming down the pike for all E-7's and above. Do any recent graduates remember that one? There was supposed to be a message coming out on this. I wonder what happened....

Dave

[LT Arthur Nelson (MKC) (Ret)]

I heard the same thing a few years ago. Maybe there was some strong push back, or something legal holding it up before making it mandatory. I think it's a good idea and agree with the CO. At least it shows he's paying attention to the Chiefs Corps and the Chiefs in his AOR. I bet he also has a good working relationship with his CMC.
I would say the CO used "strongly encourage" in place of "mandate, or directing" because right now it's not mandate every E7 and above goes to the Academy.
One thing did strike me though after re-reading this. In Harold's opening remarks, he says "From the CO of Enlisted Personel." If not the unit CO, who is the CO of enlisted personnel? I'm sure he's not talking about EPM-1.

[MSTCM Jerald Motyka]

In the Sector construct, the Commander of the unit is the Captain.

The Commanding Officer of the unit is the Logistics Department Head. The Logistics guru is also the CO of enlisted personnel, so they are the person at the smoking end of the long, green table - as well as the final approving authority on our marks.

Horribly confuslating if you ask me!

[MSTCS Dave McClintock]

Sounds like Sectorizing created some new titles for certain O's to fluff their OER's. Commanding Officer of Enlisted Personel? So my COEP is the LO? Great. New acronyms for everyone!

[MKC Harold Whitt]

Lets not forget the bigger better ORG charts

[SKC Eric S. Highland]

Hey Dave!

I honestly don't remember Master Chief Niece saying that. I do remember though that the general feel was, "If you don't want to be here, we don't want you here; if you do want to be here, you will get as much out of the course as you put into it."

Those were good times. Hope all is well with you.

v/r

[LT Arthur Nelson (MKC) (Ret)]

I hate to ask, but if the Logistics Dept Head is the CO and the Commander is the Captain. Oh hell...never mind. I have my own little universe to worry about.

[BMC Dave Carrig]

Hey Eric -

Yea - he read a drafted message to us all either the last day or second to last day. I'm can't remember if it was a directive from COMDT to make it mandatory for all E-7 and above; or something along the lines of making it a requirement for any E-8's or E-9's regardless of wx or not they had been grandfathered after the cut-off date required for advancement beyond E-7.

I don't know, man. As much as I loved the CPOA - parts of it are still pretty darn fuzzy.... Probably from lack of sleep.... If any future CPOA students go and wind up in room 218 - do all you can to get moved to another room. All I'm gonna say about that....

Dave

[MSTCM C Stevenson]

Sounds like Sectorizing created some new titles for certain O's to fluff their OER's. Commanding Officer of Enlisted Personel? So my COEP is the LO? Great. New acronyms for everyone!

It's not fluff at LA-LB. Being the end point for most enlisted eval issues, NJP, etc. in addition to what the Logistics Chief is responsible for is no cake walk. What is especially cool here is having the O-5 realize he needs the CMC and CPO Mess to carry off his agenda.

[AMTCM John Long]

Don't know if I would have posted what looks like an internal Sector email from the Skipper to the Mess. Hmm!!! Did you get a call from the CMC yet??

Just my humble 2 cents. :) John