Why are the Boatswain Mates most vocal?

[BMC John Phillips III]

I was just looking thru the Members List and I was curious who had the most posts (BMCS Slesh - as if you had any doubts). Then I noticed the top 6 are also Boatswain Mates, the 7th is an SK, but with this post I tie him lol! OK, so to my point, why are the BM's more vocal than other rates? Any ideas?

Seriously, cause I know that opens the door for a lot of rate jokes. :cool: Well, at least make a serious reply before your joke ;)

[PAC Darrell Wilson (Ret)]

Real answer- cause BM's have always been loud and vocal. You guys have a lot going on.

MY own answer- cause you guys have nothing else to do, you might as well spend time on the computer while I sit on my iceberg here in the frozen north of Alaska and do it all :D

[BMC Ken Gouge]

I'm proud to be the first BM to answer (that's what we do :) )

From our time as Seaman we have been "groomed" as leaders. (no other rate has as many people placed under their charge). Part of that training is preparing us for OIC positions.

We were taught to "look it up" from a young age so that we would learn the answers. Why? Because our Seaman don't only want to grow up to be BM's. They populate most of the rates in the Coast Guard (including the engineering rates) and have questions that need answered so they can make their career decisions.

Once we advance to E-6 we are supposed to be ready to become an XPO. The school for that position (OIC/XPO school) is only 2 weeks, and that is for one of the most all encompasing jobs in the Coast Guard. My point being that you should already know the stuff and it is a refresher course.

Coxswains have to know alot about engineering and casualty control (MK, DC, EM stuff as well as some ET stuff on the 47) and survival equipment(AST)

As an XPO we are responsible for being the second most knowledgable at the unit in BM stuff, as well as being responsible for Admin(YN) Supply(SK) Armory(GM) Galley(FS) and medical stuff(HS), public relations (PA) not to mention work-life related issues.

As Officer in Charge we have to know enough about all of that to make a final decision and put a signature to it.

In short, we have alot of areas that we can be opinionated about, and as a BM I fully expect the next post to both agree and disagree with me and remind me of some things I forgot... :D

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

And here is why I think BMs are more vocal. The majority of the threads revolve around BM issues. And look at the numbers for each rate....BMs out number any other rate.

Now if you did a % of people in a rate as to the number of folks that are Chief or higher, I would say that the PA % is way higher than the BMs that make posts.

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

BM's also being in leadership (XPO CO etc.) positions more than most other rates also have to deal with more personnel issues than say an ET which tend to dominate this room not exclusivly however. Even though I am a supervisor at an ESD I only have twelve people including my ESDD. Luckily I have an excellent shop with motivated performers. A big difference from a BM3 or BM2 and the number of people they supervise on a 378 for example.
Then again it does make me wonder, on the four ships I was on I never saw a BM without a coffee cup in their hand so how do they type? :D

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

The top two threads (Leadership, Policy) are core parts of what BM's do and are part of creating (policy). Not to diminish the importance of other rates, but OIC's and XPO's have to excersise leadership in ways that other rates don't, as well as create policy for their individual units. The only other rate (that I am aware of) that may require a person to administer a MAST that could have a serious impact on an individuals career is (ET). All rates and all Chiefs must take their leadership roles seriously and I think most do. However, there is just an additional expectation with BM's and ET's that are OIC's or XPO's. I would also say that it would include MK's that are assigned as EPO's.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I agree with all.

Pat, we need only one finger tp type, the other hand holds the coffee.

I also believe it is because we(BMS) care and are not afraid to voice our own opinions.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I tend to agree with most of what is said on this topic. If you want to stereo type people just because you’re a BM doesn’t mean you are the only rate that manages a large amount of people. On 225's the engineering department is larger then Deck, and on 110's it's a MKC that is the chief everyone answers to and mentors the JO's. I'm not saying the MK rate is the only rate that does this just an example of what other rate do.
As far as what Burt said about the BM's “I also believe it is because we(BMS) care and are not afraid to voice our own opinions.”
This I’m sure is true but you’re not the only one’s that care and as you can see by reading my post that I am also not afraid to say what’s on my mind. I just happen to have the luxury of sitting behind a desk at a job that doesn’t quite yet have a job description which allows me to visit quite often. I just have to put my 2 cents in and support my fellow MK’s that are busy keeping the boats running and repairing everything that the BM’s break (stereo typing here). After all if the MK’s weren’t out there fixing the boats what would the BM’s have to do?
Relax just poking some fun here. We all could not do our jobs without the other, just adding some humor. ;) :D
I applaud what the BM’s have done in regards to this board and happy to be hear to participate in the mess. I just wish more people felt the same way. When I first joined there were around 50 members and now look at us. BZ guys. Now where are the other 3,500 chiefs? :confused:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I just have to put my 2 cents in and support my fellow MK’s that are busy keeping the boats running and repairing everything that the BM’s break (stereo typing here). After all if the MK’s weren’t out there fixing the boats what would the BM’s have to do?

Art...I think you're confused. MK's are onboard to "Fix" or "Help" when the plant isn't meeting the expectations of the OINC.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

LOL True but when the plant isn't meeting the expectations of the OINC it’s because you are requesting the ship to something it wasn’t designed to do or its because the prop is wore down, bent, chewed up or missing because you just ran aground.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all :)

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Ok, John, this makes 114 :D :D :D

[BMC John Phillips III]

Good Call Ron!

I think all the replies are good points. I do agree with the posts, but I guess the boats in me, that thinks we should have more participation from the other rates.

Another observation I have made is that the most vocal of the BM's are OINC's/XPO's, granted the percentages of BMC's that are in those jobs are high.

I guess it goes back to the how do we motivate chiefs to be more active in the mess.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

After all if the MK’s weren’t out there fixing the boats what would the BM’s have to do?

I think you have it backwards Art, If we weren't out there breaking things, you guys would be stuck doing mind-numbing PMS :rolleyes: ?

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Now if you did a % of people in a rate as to the number of folks that are Chief or higher, I would say that the PA % is way higher than the BMs that make posts.

Thanks for looking out for the PAs Mike, since this post will number 238 for me, I decided to look at your stats:

Lets see:

70 Enlisted PAs in Rate
1 PACM
3 PACS
10 PAC
10 CWO (INF) -- I included because of the "new" membership rules
6 CWO (INF) LT -- See above note

So if my numbers are correct, and with 6 registered members out of 30 potential members, consisting of 332 posts, with the majority of the posts coming from 3 members.

That would be about 111 posts per "active" participant.
That comes out to 55.4 posts per registered member
And finally, 33.2 posts per potential member

I think the percentages are pretty pathetic, I do, however, appreciate the support.

[BMC John Phillips III]

PACS, I apologize for not placing you in the top ten, my mistake.

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

Steve, its easy to me to point out the obvious, and I know now how small the PA rate is, now that I work with you all....

....and the MST's have there own website, which is why most of us don't post here....because we don't have the same issues that you BM's have. I was once on my way to being a BM, and then got orders to MST "A" school.

Do I regret my decision? NO. Knowing that I would never be an OINC, wasn't a factor. It's the job and what I do, that made me happy with my choice.

Yes, BM's are in the spot light all the time, but I'm glad I stuck with my gut instinct on this choice.

How many OINC's can say that they have a budget of over $400,000 overseeing 3 other units? I just came from a MSO that had an annual budget of $90,000. And we needed additional money to operate! Now, I'm in the position to oversee 3 units supplemental budget (what I oversee is over and above their operating budget).

I know that I don't have true authority over our sub-units, but I have a 51% of the vote to their additional spending! But I'm humble enough to say that they know better than me, what they need and how they spend my $400,000. ;)

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

Ok, Just why did you guys have to bring up the Budget thing?
And just what are you saying that has to do with being vocal? :D


For me, I'm just that kind of person. I cant speak for other SK's but I know some that are very vocal, but because this forum is visible by all they refrain some. Also, I must say I tend to re-word my posts so as to not ruffle to many feathers. It is far easier for me to think on what I want to post than to get my big foot out of my mouth.



Post 115 :D

[BMC John Phillips III]

Ron, I was wondering the same thing about the budget. I don't consider anything in the CG mine (especially not money), except for the CG itself. Everything else, I am just a "Steward" of. :cool:

Mike, I always say it's funny money, I mean has anyone ever seen it? It doesn't exist, it's only numbers. In a side note, I had my name on the MST list for almost 2 years and then I saw the light! :D

edited to add (literally) 116

[SKC Raymond Kurtz]

If I might have the opportunity to add my opinion please. I believe it's a personality thing. You know, the old extraverted, introverted thing. Some people are just more vocal than others. I saw it at the CPO Academy, some guys (all members of our class were men) would just sit in the corner and say nothing, even during the team exercises. Nothing wrong with it, except in my opinion they could have made more of an effort to participate, but that was just their personality.

On this forum I am not very vocal, I know what subjects not to touch with the proverbial 10 foot pole and will steer clear of them. However, anyone that knows me knows that I am opinionated, very much so. And I am very vocal about it, my opinions when it might cause problems, (the know your audience sort of thing.)

BMs just seem to be more vocal, in fact all of the ones I have known, (from the BM3 to BMCM), have all been very vocal, some to the point of being arrogant. All of the good ones were very good at getting their point across without being perceived as being a jerk (a trait I am always trying very hard to emulate.)

[BMC John Phillips III]

You know, the old extraverted, introverted thing. Some people are just more vocal than others.

BMs just seem to be more vocal, in fact all of the ones I have known, (from the BM3 to BMCM), have all been very vocal, some to the point of being arrogant.


Ray, I am an introvert :D

I am not sure if you saw the thread about being "arrogant". It was a good one- the thread that is.

[SKC Ronald Brumble]

I think the reason that BM's tend to be more vocal is because they are put in jobs where they have to be.

In Charge of a boat, duh
They may have as many at 5 to 10 non rates working for them when they are a third class.
They tend to be out there with people more, just the nature of their job.

I mean, lets face it. Next to MK's, BM's have more people working for them at lower paygrades and they have to become vocal to fight for some of their folks. You might be able to toss ET's into that now that you have ESD's and ESU's where there are more of them together. As an SK I did not really have anyone working for me untill I was a first class on a ship.

You might also say that folks that have 3 or more years sea time tend to be the vocal ones. Now, I know that is not 100% correct, but it is close.



edit
117 :D

[PACS Steve Carleton]

JP III,

Thanks for including me in the top ten.

[BMC John Phillips III]

You earned the spot! :cool:

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Steve,
Must have been a slow news day for you to take the time to figure all that out. :D

Jim

[PAC Jamie Devitt-Chacon ret]

Hey Steve, does this boost our percentage? Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

And I have NEVER been accused of being quiet. ;)

Jamie

jamie.chacon@gmail.com

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Jamie,

Every little number will count.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Cant let my number slip since I haven't posted in a week!

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

What is the FS posting count? I think this makes my 6th. I'm catching up. :D

Jayare

[BMC John Phillips III]

Jayare, you are 3rd place among the stewburners! The other 2 are tied for first with 13 :D

[FSC Jayare Parker (Ret)]

Well if I keep this up I should be ahead of them in about another week. I have started comming here more lately and checking things out.

Jayare

[PAC Jamie Devitt-Chacon ret]

Well, then, it looks as if I should post more. Happy New Year to all the "vocals" and "non-vocals" alike.