How do you motivate a Chief?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

We've kind of discussed this in other threads and I thought we should open it up in its own thread.

So, how do you motivate a Chief?

I'm sure that we all know a Chief that doesn't participate in the mess or the CPOA or anything else. How do we get them to want to participate? Are they a lost cause? Do we fire them? Ideally, we get them to participate and be active members of the Chief's Mess, but is that always possible?

I have some thoughts, but would like to first hear what my fellow Chiefs have to say.

[MKC John Shearouse]

I do have some opions on this. I know I do not post as much as others in here but when I have a strong opion I have always stated my mind. In this matter I myself think it has already been decide on how to motivate a Chief. I do believe with the two new marks there will be a few more Chiefs that are motivated. If for nothing else but personel gain. It is a shame (in my opion) that it took something like that to get some Chiefs up off thier bottom side and become more active in the mess. But if it works these Chiefs should start seeing the advantages of the mess and see how being motivated for the common good can help them also.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

I like the idea of adding participation it the mess into the marks. But that still will not work for some that are going to retire soon and don’t really care about their marks anymore. I know what I have to say will spark some debate ( I Hope). I see the new generation of chiefs not taking advantage of what they have earned RHIP. Like, a Chief should stand less duty the a E-3 to E-6, Have better on base parking, use the open brow policy (Not abuse it or not use it at all), and actually take leave and not come into work while on leave. If the junior people see that the Chiefs are standing more duty, always the first to arrive and the last to leave (I know there are times when we do need to stay late to get things done, but not every day), in the office when they are on leave, walking to his/her office from the back 40 because that was the closest parking that wasn’t filled by the E-3’s to E-5’s and in some cases E-6. What do the have to look forward to and when they do make E-7 why should I participate in other things when I don’t get anything in return except more work and less time off to spend with my family, enjoy my hobbies or to just relax. You can make arguments either way like people get burnt out when alls they do is work and as a result have health problems or just finally give up and say screw this and retire. Some don’t feel like they got a new name when they pinned on the anchors and let the people that work for them call them by their first name when not at work. When we pinned on our anchors our first name changed to Chief, Senior or Master Chief to everyone. One of the only exceptions to call a Chief, Senior or Master Chief by their first name would be when you’re in the chiefs mess. OK I guess you could throw the Warrants into the mess also. Once a chief always a chief, right? Hopefully all warrants are ok with this unless they were never a chief and not wise to the workings of our mess. We as chiefs need to put the pressure on those that are not pulling their own weight. Isn’t it one of our responsibilities to keep each other in line. If we would just pull that chief of to the side and say hey I think you’re making the chiefs bad and this is why, please stop. Instead of sitting back and letting them make a foul of them selves and quite frankly making the chiefs mess look like fools. I guess what I’m getting at is by being true brothers and sisters to one another maybe we can help a few get that pride back in what they do and how they act and then once they feel that way just maybe they will start to willingly participate in all aspects of the chief. A way that I think help put some motivation back into the mess was we went to the XO and asked that the chiefs mess review all 4910's before they reached his desk for our input. So far it’s working well. The XO as taking our recommendations every time, weather it’s recommended to be dropped, a 3307, a chiefs mast, or proceed with the captains mast. It has helped regain respect in the Chiefs mess from the officers and the enlisted It has also helped everyone solve the problem at the lowest level possible. (see Stu I believe in using the COC ;) ) I’ll stop here and wait to see what everyone else thinks before I babble any more.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Going back to my college psychology days at the great Washington State University I will tell you this. There are two types of motivation. Intrinsic - comes from within. A personal desire. AND Extrinsic - comes from the outside, such as marks, whips, chains, pokes in the eye... The kind that works over the long term is intrinsic motivation. The person needs to feel like they are part of the team. If it is not for their help, experience, leadership... then the team will be less effective or fail. Common goals need to be set and then everyone needs to be given and assignment in order to achieve the goals. Find out what each persons interests are and try to get those involved in some way with the mess. Why do some people volunteer to coach little league or boy scouts while others are more interested in going to a bar? Find out what makes the individual tick and then start from there. Bring in that special talent to do something for the mess. That should do for starters.

[BMCS Jon Gagnon]

I think adding participation in the mess to our enlisted evaluations is the wrong thing to do. I understand that their are Chiefs that just don't participate in the mess, so be it. There are also Chiefs that have difficulty participating in the mess. My station is 2 hours from the Sector, it's not too bad of a drive for a good cause, however with the new Sector re-alignment we have one unit that is 5 hours from the Sector, which actually is a good half way point for all units. I don't make every mess meeting, I do pay my annual dues to the mess and add do a great deal of mess duties via email. I think adding it to the evaluations is not right.

So how do you motivate a Chief? If it's to participate in the mess, don't force them. Let them be that weakest link on the chain.

BMCS Jon Gagnon
Station Erie

[ETCM Joseph Harold]

Art,

I'm just curious, but what is a Chief's Mast? Is it just a good old call to the carpet or something more official? I just have never heard of it before with that label.

Thanks,
Joe

[PACS Steve Carleton]

WORKING WITH OTHERS
"The degree to which this member promotes a team effort and used partnering with the "CPO MESS" and other internal and external organization in accomplishing goals."

This is the text of the new eval. I am strong participant in my Mess and I hold a CPOA Chapter President position. Does that mean that I should automatically get a 6 or 7? Absolutely not!

I don't want some slug showing up at a Chief's Call or my Chapter meetings, sitting there like a bump on a log just so they can try to get a better mark on the next eval. That is just as bad if not worse than someone not showing up in the first place.

For me, the key part of the description is: partnering with the "CPO MESS" and other internal and external organization in accomplishing goals

Who sets the goal? The Command, the Mess or the Individual? I say all three.

If the command's goal is to be active in the comunity then activities such as Church Lay Ministers, Scout Leaders, Youth Sports Coaches, etc. meets the spirit of what this eval is about.

I think that the Command sets the goal, the Mess makes it happen and the Individual has the responsibility to make the time to carry it out.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

We also use the Chiefs Mast and have pre-XO input on matters such as 4910, Awards and SOQ. I don't think there is a any formal guidance. One thing it does is remind the junior personnel that we are here, we are a team (the mess) and we have the power to influence their careers for good or bad, with their best interest in mind.

It has saved some paperwork so far, and a few trips to the green cloth that would have happened otherwise but weren't necessary.

Back to the topic. You shouldn't have to motivate the Chief. Having marks reflect mess partiipation in general is wrong. In the example of the mess on board a cutter, how is someone in my marking chain going to know what goes on in the mess? Do I fore-go the "what's said in the mess" rule and give a JO bullets on what goes on?

BT
NNNNN

[DCCS Brett Wickett]

OK, I have been reading for quite a while, don't remember if I have ever posted on here. Stay on the road alot, so don't have much time. But I will respond to this thread. I see it as a few different areas. 1. I am not onboard with making it a marking issue, to much like a forced group hug. If you are forced to do something it is not because you want to do it. I agree with most opinions of others on this thread. We too use a Chief's mast so to speak, and we are pre XO for alot of matters. So what do we do, first you have to make the mess a fun place to be, not playing games, but a place people want to be. Second the mess has to have the command support, by this the command is looking at all chief's as one, and all are expected to participate. Place responsibility on all in the mess. Next, typically new chief's come into the mess gung ho and ready to participate, we have to include them in everything. Will this fix the old timers that don't want to participate......NO, but it has to change somewhere, or we simply continue to wonder what we can do over the next generations. And lastly..........this is the big one as far as I am concerned..............STOP RECOMMENDING PEOPLE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE ELIGIBLE. The mess is a leadership position, an E-6 that is not already showing the leadership qualities probably will not participate in the mess, so stop recommending them to a leadership position. Becomming active in the mess starts way before someone puts on an anchor. This is a part of mentoring. Ok now I have posted.......LOL

[PAC Darrell Wilson (Ret)]

I think it was stupid to put that on our marks and I could care less that its there. A LT marks me, what does he know about me in the mess. All he sees is me going to the meetings.
And like Steve said, whats it going to do? Make some chiefs come by force? I dont want chiefs there that dont want to be there.
I have never held much faith in the marks system anyways. I have always been the same person but my marks have always changed depending on who my boss was at the time. Its a faulty system and should be done away with IMO.
Art, I dont even know where to begin with your post. You sure didnt go thru my CCTI. Your impression and my impression of what a chief is is 180 degrees different. If I am reading your post right, you seem to think you can be home having coffee at 9 a.m. while your crew does the work.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Steve make sure you are not confusing CPO mess with CPOA chapters. The mark is very specific. I have also seen LANT and PAC CMCs stae it is for participation in the MESS not CPOA or CCTI.

Jon, I understand your comments. I think this board should count as "participation. Heck there are 90+ chiefs here in Kodaik and myself and the D17 CMC make up the CPO mess for d17 units since all the cutters maintain their own mess. I attend ISC kodaiks Chiefs Call but do not have a vested interest but do offer input.

[MKC Art Bailly (ret)]

Joe; the Chiefs mast is a formal proceeding held by the mess instead of a mast I have a written instruction that the mess uses for this topic. If anyone in interested in seeing it just e-mail me and I’ll end it to you.
Darrel your did misunderstand me. If there’s work getting done I’m there. I’ve been right beside the EM’s/MK’s after 2100 while their doing the EM thing on a cutter or small boat. But if there’s nothing going on I feel I should be able to come in say 15 min to 30 min later in the morning or leave 30 min early when there’s nothing going on.
By BMC John Phillips III
Why would you want to be like the Chief?
Chief is mean, nasty, heartless and cold. Chief will yell at you, bark out orders, and doesn’t care about hurting your feelings. Chief's not very nice. No matter how much you do, Chief will find the one thing you didn’t. No matter how well a job you did, Chief can find a flaw. Chief comes in pretty much when he/she wants and does pretty much what he/she wants and nobody seems to care. Then Chief has the nerve to get angry when he/she has to wait on us. Chief's so old fashioned, he/she cares about stuff nobody cares about anymore-- stupid stuff like polishing boots and shaving! Even underway sometimes he gives you a hard time about it! Chief's seen it all and done it all before. He/she is flat out cocky! I can’t understand why anyone would want to be like Chief.
Why I want to be like Chief.
Chief sees everything. Chief cares about me, and he/she wants me to do a good job. Chief would hate more than anything to see me get hurt. Ok, maybe not my feelings, but after Chief yells at me, I realize why, or Chief explains it to me. I know when Chief is critiquing my work or being hard on me, it’s only because I can do better. Chief wants what’s best for the Coast Guard and me. I have noticed that when were doing good, Chief sometimes shows up a little later than normal. I guess Chief trusts that we can get things going without him/her. Other times, when we are working on something difficult and it doesn't seem like it can be done, Chief is there to show us exactly how to do it. Chief pays attention to details and tries to get us to do the same. Whenever something goes wrong, Chief can almost always guess exactly what happened, even without us telling him. Chief knows that he/she won’t always be around and Chief knows it’s up to us to take his/her place. You know, Chief once told me, the thing he/she enjoys the most about work is when Chief sees someone teaching someone else something he/she taught them. Whenever I have a problem and I need to talk, Chief is always there to listen or to offer me some great advice. It’s like Chief knows exactly where I am coming from. You know, I bet Chief used to be just like me.

[MSTC Michael Schmidtke]

Art, I was with everyone else on your outlook until this last post. You might want to tell people that you are quoting something that was posted, because we all took it as your opinion/outlook (this is the trouble with online mess'es!, not being able to read peoples faces).

All I have to say is that I wish I had your situation. There's been several days/weeks where I had nothing to do after the first 15 mins of work, but still worked the whole day (if you call surfing this website among others like it, work)! Don't get me wrong, there has been days that I left without thinking twice (basically on Fridays), but it doesn't happen too often at my job!

I say this, only because I consider myself pretty observant...Most people that post here, have a lot of time on there hands....me being one of them!

Sorry, I'll let everyone get back on the thread.........

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Burt,

You are absolutely correct that the CPO Mess and the CPOA are two seperate and distinct entities. However, go back and read where it says "other internal and external organizations"

My post on the topic points out that, besides the Mess or the CPOA there are plenty of external orgainzations/outlets that someone can donate their time to achieve/accomplish goals.

An important point is that the CPO Mess and the CPOA have one common factor -- Our members are the same!

Mike,

I've been to the Coordination Center, it's pretty much open brow for everybody there

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The command has always had the same tools to motivate a Chief that they've had for everybody else. Those tools now carry a bigger kick and are therefore used less. If you're having a problem with one of your members,try not to focus on their rank, focus on whether or not they are doing their job to your satisfaction. If they aren't, hold them accountable. Marks, page 7's, poor endorsements, not recommended.........How many of these poor performers have gotten a negative page 7 since they pinned their anchors on ? How many have been not recommended for advancement or barred from re-enlistment (when that was still an option) ? Poor performers only do exactly what you require them to do.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

The problem begins before an individual is promoted to E-7. If you can see that he/she is not going to be the mover and shaker that the CG expects of the the Chief's Corps, then don't recommend hime/her for promotion.

Once they have pinned on those anchors and become a problem, its up to the COTM to take action. In order for that to happen, the COTM must have complete cooperation from the unit commanding officer. Together, the COTM and CO can utilize a number of "corrective measures."

And, one final point...Chiefs don't need to be motivated. E-7s do.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Dennis i disagree with your post. I think first and foremost the CO/OINC should be the first link to hold a E7 acountable. Your CO has more leverage to "compel compliance with the minimum force neccasary". Then the COTMM should be brought in has part of your tools. The COTM cant with hold liberty, cant give new work assignments, cant give EMI(i hope it would not lead to this), does not mark and can not sign a negative Page 7. These are all valuble tools when trying to motivate some one. Now the COTM can help counsel and provide mentoring and other tools but it is the commands responsiblility to ensure needed entries are made if it does not get better.

I do agree that it happened before the member ever made chief though.

A story. i once had an MK1, EPO that got all 4's on his marks. I did not recommend the member for advancement to E7. My group EO said i could not mark with average e6 marks. neddless to say, he was not recommended.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I'd be willing to give the COTM the first crack at this. It may have the same result as a Chiefs Performance Review Board. But it would take the right COTM. Just as it would take the right Command to ensure compliance. But somebody needs to ensure compliance.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I cannot believe my eyes!!! Did Stu just say that he would let the COTM handle this? Is the COTM in the COC? ;) I am sorry for mixing threads but WOW. I am shocked. AND, I agree. Chiefs should be looking out for each other. Good and Bad. A COTM or even a fellow Chief that see's someone is not living up to the anchor they wear should be pulled aside and offered some friendly advice from a fellow Chief before it gets to the point that the COC needs to get involved.

[BMCS Roland Ashby]

So how do you mark a reservist for participation? Do we actually expect that a reservist will take the day off to drive 1-2 hours for a cheifs mess at 1000 on a Tuesday? Should they get paid a drill?

Ok I realize I asked a lot of questions, but does any area have a reserve mess? I my area there are chiefs who drive over 5 hours to drill, so can we expect them to make a chiefs mess during the week?

Thanks - Roland

Note: This is coming from a reserve chief (ME) who travels nearly 3 weeks a month for a civilian job and still WANTS to be an active memeber of the mess. Is it too much to ask that there is a chiefs call a couple times a year on a weekend or evening :confused:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

So how do you mark a reservist for participation? Do we actually expect that a reservist will take the day off to drive 1-2 hours for a cheifs mess at 1000 on a Tuesday? Should they get paid a drill?

Roland...Reserves should be marked against their peer group. In other words, how do they compare to the other rerserve chiefs in their area? If you're a reserve who never participates in "Chief" stuff, you should have lower marks in this area.

In the Portland area I know who is doing what and I know how little some are doing (reserve & active duty).

Yes...you should get paid a drill!

[BMC John Phillips III]

Going back to my college psychology days at the great Washington State University I will tell you this. There are two types of motivation. Intrinsic - comes from within. A personal desire. AND Extrinsic - comes from the outside, such as marks, whips, chains, pokes in the eye... The kind that works over the long term is intrinsic motivation.

Jim, you are exactly right! For those that haven't been to psych class, they teach the same thing at the CPO Academy, it's good stuff. I was just discussing this with some of my shipmates the other day. The bottom line is you can't motivate, (true) motivation comes from within (intrinisic). You can only demotivate.

Deane, I think it's said that you even have to ask the question. There are a ton of Chiefs out there that are into the history and really live the life of being a Chief better than I do and I would never miss a Chiefs Call that I was physically able to attend.

Other things, besides motivation, that are factors is personality types, what's in it for me, leadership (or lack thereof). Ironically, all topics of the CPO Academy. I think we should look at the requirement of having to go. Maybe give everyone E7 and above as of right now 2 years to attend or they lose their privelage of being a Chief. Also, for all future Chiefs, have it be a requirement within the first year of putting on the Anchor.

That's my 2 cents, but with inflation, it probably comes out to about 5. :p

[BMCS Roland Ashby]

Deane good point on comparing to the peer group. I will make sure to use that in the next evaluation.

Has anyone seen documentation that reserves "Should" get paid a drill for attending a Chief's Call?

[BMCS Don Zoll]

Roland,
The CCTI is official CG bussiness, sanctioned by the Comdt. Therefore all aspects of you're participation ARE (not should be) for pay and points. If you are over drilled for the year you may request additional drills. Check with your district reserve coordinator.
Don