Is the pool of ATON OIC candidates short?

[BMC Scott Coder]

I was just certified ATON Ashore and Afloat at the last PACAREA OIC Review Board. I was not screened for command this year because I just reported aboard MSST 91109. Is the shortage of ATON folks still dangerously low? If so where has the shortage been, Ashore or Afloat? With the presept preventing non-tour complete people from screening, can we expect the continuation of non-ATON certified OIC's to fill in the gaps? Can some senior BM Chiefs take a hack at this?

Thanks BMC Coder

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

The biggest shortages I know of were AtoN ashore. And though you may not be tour complete, you should always have an up-dated E-resume submitted. From my understanding of the Roadshow people, when they poll to fill a billet, it lists everyone who has requested it. They then select someone from that pool of candidates. Remember that you hear "needs of the service" all the time. Sometimes the "needs of the service" can also meet your needs.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Still is and still wil be Scott. Stu is right, E-resume aspa. Cll the detailer too, that never hurts. I think we still have a few recalled-retirees working at some units, all ATON. Good Luck!!

[BMC Scott Coder]

That was my plan. When the updated expected vacancy list comes out on the 18th, that e-resume will be submitted. The MSST is a good job, but far from the career track I was trying to stay on. I feel a strong dedication to the people that work for and look up to me, but in the end, I need that OIC job inorder to meet the standards I have set for myself.

Scott

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I attended a "roadshow" yesterday and talked with CWO Korst (BM ashore West). If you don't "screen" during the regular panel, you can still be screened "in house" by the assignments staff. The screening panel just takes a big work list away from the AO's. I short toured at my last unit to get the fantastic job that I am at now because of "needs of the service". True that when a job is polled, everyone that put in for it will come up. It will also have your tour complete date next to your name so they will take that into account. However, if your's is only one of few names, you may be the one that gets the job. It is certainly not going to hurt to fight for your career path. Remember it is YOUR career.

[BMC John Phillips III]

That's great info Jim, thanks for sharing. We will be attending the road show here, but on the 27th, leaving 4 days to get my resume in.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott (Ret)]

I didn't screen for OIC afloat ATON and I still got this job (OUACHITA). It appears that the screening process doesn't seem to be as critical as advertised.

There was also no reason why I shouldn't have screened. It seemed to me, at the time, to be a very arbitrary process. This particular unit is also very much in demand.

In any event, I would recommend to everyone interested in a particular job to put it on your e-resume regardless of your screening. You can't get something that you don't ask for.

Also, even though we are filling the OIC aton afloat jobs, we are doing it with the same people over and over again.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Please clear something up for me Dennis. Was it that you didn't successfully screen, or that you didn't put in to screen ? Because for the last couple of years, I've seen everyone I know who has put their name into screen, show up on the list. Arbitrary...pointless, seems like the right terms to use for the process. It used to be that they only screened to get between 150 to 200% of the projected billets. Lately I've seen fifteen or more people successfully screen for 2 or 3 projected vacancies. And sometimes it still goes to someone who wasn't of that list. I'm just curious why we still have a screening process ? If you're certified, you're certified. Seems to me like a boondoggle. And you're right, these jobs are being circulated to the same people anyway.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott (Ret)]

I put my package in and did not successfully screen. Now, I was an E-7 at the time of the screening and made E-8 after the process had concluded. But, there was no reason why I shouldn't have screened at any level. I had punched all my tickets and have a great record. I screened successfully for ATON and MM ashore. They just didn't seem to want me underway, even though my tour previous to the one I was sitting in, was XPO afloat.

I called my detailor, asked him what was up, and he told me that he'd be making that final decision. So, I applied for what I wanted, process be damned.

Frankly, it was a little embarrassing. It was like being picked last for dodgeball...again.

[BMC Scott Coder]

I was a little upset that I did not screen also. I submitted my package as directed, but was told that the presept memo prevented me from screening due to my rotation date. I was getting calls from my peer group asking what happened. I contacted the AO, and he stated to submit an e-resume and I will be screened by the detailers.

I know this may sound selfish, but I seeked this certification so I can better myself while leading people in the ATON field. I am attemting to MAKE MY CAREER, but it is hard when so many things are out of our hands

scott

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Dennis, that amazes me. I am more confused about this system than I was this morning. I now have no idea what goes on in that room. The year it happened to you might have been a year where they actually screened people to decide who was best, and something in your file didn't sit well with them. I have no idea. But I know people who have screened for positions that they were not certified for. Position that they hadn't put in for. I know a guy who was not recommended for future commands from his CO, and then that same CO as a board member, signed off on screening him across the board. As more people tell me their stories, I'm sure I'll understand things less tomorrow, than I do today.
Scott, it's not selfish. It's your career and I hope that you get to do what you want with it. Take some comfort in the fact that the Detailer is going to do what he thinks is best anyway. Find good allies, and work to get the things that you want.

[BMCS Burt Ford]

A few years back, I asked the detailers about this. Here was what I was told. If you screened for command, you qualified for that(those) position(s). What was done in the process, was 150 and ideally 200% more than were needed were placed on the list as "best qualified". They were looked at first for the job as per current processes for assignment. Then after names on the "best quailified" list were exhausted, they went to those who did not make the "published list". But like Stu said, if you are qualified and recieve a favorable endorsment, why the process??

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Burt, the list that just came out has 12 people screening for 2 positions in one field and 29 people screening for 4 in another. 11 people screening for 0 available billets. Now if there are no projected billets available next year, why screen anyone for them ? And if you're going to "screen" people, couldn't they limit the field to lower than 11 ? Couldn't we have found the three best people to fill a billet we aren't going to have anyway ?
I could get behind a system that was geared to select the best qualified people for the job. I would probably disagree with some of their findings, but I could get behind it. What I don't get, is where is the screening ? If you have less applicants than you have positions, by all means, "screen" them all. But lets limit the final number in other areas to 150-200% of our projected billets. Screening no more guarantees you a OinC billet than not screening prevents you from getting one. Let's at least have the list represent "someone's" view of the "Best Qualified" candidates.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Stu,
I have looked long and hard at both the screening results and the projected vacancies while trying to second guess the system and guage the odds of me being short toured (again) in the event I make BMCS. The one variable that I don't see mentioned is the fact that people screen for multiple positions. For instance, there are 11 ATON afloat BMCS jobs "projected" and 13 screened. Of those 13, 11 of them screened for MM jobs as well. If they are picked to fill on of those, then they drop out of the pool for ATON, and vice versa. All the screening process really does is take that initial bunch of record research away from the detailers, giving them more time to complete their puzzle. If they exhaust their list, then they have to do the record research themselves to see if you are "qualified". Somewhere in that "search", they might find something that disqualifies a candidate. If everyone that screens, makes it, that tells me that there are no hidden skeleton's in the closet.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott (Ret)]

I'd be interested to know if everyone that screens makes it as well. How can we find that out?

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Stu, I am unable to view list. Currently coaching Little League BB for the state tournement(could be in Portland oregon next week if anyone wants to come). Wasn't it passed in the last year or so that whatever you were qualified for you would be automatically screened for? That would be the answer for screening BMs for positions that are not open. I know, still doesn't make sense. I m with you, why screen them? I think those that qualify for al positions are going to go where we are short, ATON. Either way, I am not a fan of the process either!

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

If I knew anyone on the board I would have called to try and get that inside skinny, unfortunately I don't. As far as the pool goes, the people who are advanced, then short toured and didn't screen will still probably be given OinC jobs if they they ask for them. With the 87s being two year billets, strange things begin to happen. Last year there were many more candidates than vacancies, and this year it appears to have flip-flopped. At my last unit I advanced to 8 six months after reporting onboard and was still full toured. My sister unit up the river had their OinC make 8 and he was transfered the following year. Two out of the three OinCs that filled those billets are now poised to make 8 after reporting onboard this year. It will be interesting to see what happens to them if they make it.
After talking to the Detailer, I was informed that the retired recalls were going away, and that they weren't looking at letting people stay after thirty. Where we still appear to have shortages in the OinC positions, we have all the 8s and 9s that we are allowed. This "might" account for why they are letting some people retire without fighting to keep them around.
And not to sound paranoid but, I still think that there is a faction out there that is looking for ways to end enlisted command. The harder it becomes to find qualified enlisted people who are seeking these positions, the easier it becomes to make them JO billets.
Jim, you'll make youself crazy if you try to figured the odds on something that no one has all the pieces to, trust me I know, trust me I know, trust me I know. I'd just contact the detailer, the take what he gives me with a grain of salt, trust me I know, trust me I know. I hope he gives you exactly what you're looking for. I like to see people rewarded for outstanding service.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Okay, this is the word that I got. There were more people who applied, than successfully screened. The two big show stoppers being, something in their record that raised a flag, and people who submitted their names, but weren't scheduled to transfer during the screening parameters.
All of the records were reviewed and some people screened for more positions than they requested, because their record showed that they were certified for more.
I'm also being told that I am paranoid and enlisted commands aren't in danger. I was told that there are more OinC jobs now than at any period in our past. Some jobs have gone to Warrants and JOs where some of their jobs have gone back to enlisted billets. One of the problems is that the number of E-8s and E-9s (and JOS for that matter) are limited by congress. The number of Warrants is only limited by the amount we can afford to pay. With more 87s coming on line, we need more OinCs. With more 87s and Stations than ANTs and black hulls, we have more certified MM people than we have certified AtoN people. We have more certified people seeking MM platforms than we have looking at the AtoN billets. Even the people seeking both, are listing the white boats and Stations first.
Bottom line remains, If you want a job, have an updated e-resume on line. When that billet is polled your name will come up. Even if you didn't screen, the detailers can screen you in house. If you don't have an e-resume listing that job, you're the only one who knows that you want it.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Stu...thanks for the information.

Dennis...I wonder what raised a flag in your record that kept them from screening you?

I'm wondering how many certified & screened ATON Afloat people are actually putting in for the WLR's? Is this the hardest OINC job to fill?

[BMCS Dennis Endicott (Ret)]

If there was a problem with my record, they would not have screened me for anything. They screened me for ashore.

You wonder what red flag was in my record....

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Great info Stu. I wonder if that changes with the PCS of the CAC and AO? Seems that is different from a couple years ago when I asked. I think the detailer was CWO Mullinax.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Yeah, but Dennis, I was told that the same "flag" would have been raised once the Detailers screened you in house. I think that you might have been an omission, typo, or vendetta. If there really was something there, I don't think that they would have given you a unit other people were asking for. I don't understand how someone could come off a successful OinC tour, be recommended by their command, and not successfully screen.
We have the Chief's Mess meeting with the roadshow guys tomorrow. I have questions that need to be answered. The problem is, I always seem to get the same guys, and they're not from the BM side of the house. I'll let you all know what is passed.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Well they weren't the same guys, but they also weren't part of that inner sanctum of in house screening. They gave us the link
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cgpc/epm/epm2home.html
and told us that their slide show and hot word could be seen from that site. They said that money isn't a fact when it comes to transfers and short touring people. They implied that many reductions in rate and relief for causes were the result of poor Command recommendations in the first place. Bottom line from them on the subject was, if your people aren't ready for that responsibility, don't say that they are. Your Priority and Command's recommendations take precedence over how close you are to your desired billet and the close of moving you there. And people who accept advancements should expect to move. They said that there is nothing against homesteading in any CG Manual. And people who don't have a current e-resume on file and are scheduled to transfer will be called as soon as the people who do recieve their assignments. Translation....if you didn't ask for something, you get what's left. If you asked for two billets, you'll be called before someone who didn't submit, but after someone else may have gotten what would have been your number three pick. If you're the only person asking for a billet, you might get it even if it is your last pick. 01 Aug is around the corner, let the games begin.

[BMC John Phillips III]

Does everyone know where they are going? Happy? Sharing? Just curious. I know what you're thinking BMCS Slesh and the answer is NO.

[BMC John Anders]

Slates were finished on 2 Sept. Has anyone received a call from the AO yet?

[BMC Scott Coder]

Was offered and excepted OIC of ANT Venice. Not a choice location, but it is our responsibility not to turn down these jobs. Now the next step is to check on the status of the ANT and see if anything is salvagable, not likely. Looks like all of my aids will be new and on the same service rotation, makes it a little easy.

[PACS Steve Carleton]

Scott,

Page 22 of the 19 August issue of Navy Times has a picture of your sign in a pile of storm debris and a boat piled up. Not sure of it's exact location though. :D

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I got my #2 Pick - CGC OSAGE

[BMC Matthew James]

Scott,

That good news on the ANT Job...I'm sure you'd rather be rebuilding your AOR than playing commando games. Let me know if you need anything.

BMC Matt James "Tsunami"

[BMC Scott Coder]

Matt,

It was the best phone call I have received from an AO. I think that this will be a huge challenge with it being my first OIC job combined with a majority of my crew homeless, displaced and seperated from their families. I am looking forward to helping my folks and the locals rebuilt their lives and the lower Mississippi. Hope all is going well for you at the MSST, for me the program will not be missed.

Scott

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Well Scott, I think the the answer to your original questions was a resounding yes. This year saw people short toured to fill ANT OinC vacancies, people not yet certified receive them, and people over billeted allowed to stay in them. Good news for everybody but those looking to extend past their original tour. I've heard of at least four people (three ashore and one afloat) who were denied extensions and I haven't found out who got their jobs yet. I only know of one guy from the multi-mission side of the house who asked for and recieved his extension on the cutter. AtoN needed people like you to seek these jobs, and I'm glad that your back on board with us. Let me know if you need anything, before or after you get there.

[MECS Scott Pugh]

Congratulations Scott...

There is a life after tactical boat operations and it is much better.

[BMC Scott Coder]

Thanks to all for the congrats. I had a feeling that I would be receiving a phone call this summer for a ATON OIC job, and I am thankfull that I did. When I got the orders to the MSST I was left scratching my head, a certified ATON ashore and afloat guy with alot of ATON experience going to a WHAT? I hope that this will be the last time I am forced to leave the community.

I am certain that all things are meant to be, and in 10 or 15 years I will understand why I was supposed to be at the MSST. The only reason that has come to mind is it has inabled me to recruit for and talk to junior people about ATON. I hope that I will be able to make a positive impact on the great folks that work for me here. I appreciate the importance of the mission, however it seems to me that the MSST is a confused program without an true identity or a place to lay its head at night. I wish luck to my replacement and I hope I can leave him/her a better shop then the one I found.

Scott

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Welcome to the board Scott Pugh.
Congrats Scott Coder. If you need anything from me, let me know. Two of my guys just left ANT Venice AOR fro Hurricane relief and said the building are in pretty bad shape. They have been riding the ANTs 55'.

Burt

[BMC Scott Coder]

Burt,

If you can get any other info from your guys that would be great, ie. status of the sity of Venice and the road down there. I spoke to the XPO about 2 weeks ago but he had no information concerning the damage. BZ to your folks that sacraficed their time to a great cause. I am sure I will see the fruits of labor first hand next summer.

Scott

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Ok guys whose going this time around? Are we going to send some great candidates?

[MECS Scott Pugh]

Thanks for the welcome Burt... :)

Sector Buffalo just had our OIC College, we are still working on the pre-board prior to the D9 board.

Scott

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

More evidence is in. I won't be getting released from rate because they need people with the AtoN qual. So as soon as Scott gets down here, I'm off to Natchez.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I'm confused. A month ago they said they had plenty of qualified candidates for OIC. Now your saying they are in need of ATON qual'd folks. They tell people making 8 that they can stay in their 7 jobs, but were in such a need for 8's we're already advancing off next years list? I just find it strange, and maybe I'm missing something.

Stu, is that word official? They're not going to let you stay down there?

[BMC John Phillips III]

I am even more confused than you Ian.

Now I know Venice was hit by the hurricane but did they close down the job completely? I read back a little on this thread and it says that Scott got orders there and then in another a year later he's getting orders to ANT PR. Scott? Anyone?

For the sake of offering something inline with the topic of discussion, I sat on my first OIC Sector Preboard, there were two candidates. Only one asking for Aton. It was a case of his command suggesting why not go for all 4. I asked the member why he was applying for ATON and that was the reason he stated, that and that he was looking at a specific ANT (geographic reasons). I asked one question we moved on. So I think the pool is small, but not necessarily short.

I think if more people knew how good ATON was, we wouldn't have any shortages, we'd be over... but then again, I don't mind having more ATON units to chose from come rotation time.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

I think if more people knew how good ATON was, we wouldn't have any shortages, we'd be over... but then again, I don't mind having more ATON units to chose from come rotation time.


Roger That! Feel the same way.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

This E-resume season has thrown me completely out of whack. As a Senior BM, I used to be pretty confident in my ability to answer career counseling questions presented by my folks, including e-resumes and Command Cadre questions. To tell you the truth, now I haven't got a clue. My XPO asked me questions and advice about his career decisions, path and e-resumes. I tried to answer the best I could, and in the end told him he needed to just call the detailer. What I wanted to tell him was three things:

1. It depends on who you talk to.

2. It depends on what day it is.

3. It depends on which way the pendulum is swinging this week.

And none of this even includes that OIC screening score.

Now, I could be the only one feeling this way, but I seriously doubt it. If anybody has any idea's or advice I'm listening.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Ian, yes very official. I'm not really shocked about it though. I was preparing myself for this once I got the orders. I thought I was already being told to get ready to pack. And I can't complain, I'm getting something that I asked for. The boat looks great and maybe I'll meet Burt when he comes to relieve me in a couple of years.

[BMCS Ian McVicker]

Well, we'll be working together. My ANT is about an 1.5 hours from Natchez on the Red River. Our AOR's meet, and we're secondary for each other in a couple areas.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

It will be good to be able to put a face to the name.......

[BMC Scott Coder]

JPIII,
True, I did get orders to ANT VENICE the day before KATRINA hit. I was excited about going, but some issues with my son came up (custody battle)and I was unable to relocate. Long story, but because of the storm damage an uncertainty of available resources in the area I had to cancel my orders. I was not willing to be GEO for another tour. It made my very sad because ATON is where I want to be.

Now that I am going to PR things could not be better. I am very excited and hoping to get with stu after his CPOA graduation and work on a change of command date.

I am getting full custody of my son and we will finally be a family again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Things are finally looking up and we are all happy to be going back to PR.

Scott