Deserter allowed back

[DCCS Todd Holcomb]

Good evening all,
I'll try to keep this short. How does everyone feel about DESERTER JENKINS being allowed to visit his "home Country"? My issue is he deserted plain and simple and even admitted so because he didn't want to go to Vietnam, but even after his admission, was courtmartialed and spent only a fragment of time in the brig. Now we are allowing him to come back, even if it is to visit his 90 something year old mother before she dies then he wants to leave ASAP. HE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT FAMILY 40 YRS AGO!!!!!!! I say he should not be allowed back he gave up his right when he turned his back on the U.S.. That's my opinion but it doesn't help with my following question.

This infuriates me as well as leaves me wondering, what kind of precedence is our military leadership and politicians setting?

What am I supposed to tell my subordinates when they ask about this, and a couple have? I have told them that these decisions come from paygrades way higher than mine and I don't have a good answer for them but will try to find one. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm completely lost on how to give an honest answer:confused:

This almost P!$$3$ me off as much as the bleeding hearts that don't want another TERROR ATTACK but don't think we should torture those that may have information to stop one, and now the bandwagon wants to shut down GITMO.....B.S. I say :mad: :mad:
I gotta go but I'll look in tomorrow and see if anyone has any good advice on how to handle this with juniors.

Todd

[MSTCS Jerald P. Motyka]

Gee, Todd, what do you REALLY think? :D

I guess the only thing you can fall back on is that eventually, everybody gets forgiven. He was given a sentence via Court Martial, and he served that sentence. It doesn't really matter that you and I don't think it was long enough... that isn't for us to decide. The convening authority (with input from WAY up high, I'm sure!) decided to slap his wrist, and he served his sentence. He paid his debt to society as the law demanded.

Now, as a gesture of goodwill, the US has agreed to let him back in the country to say goodbye to his dying, 91 year old mother.

To forgive is divine - and since he has paid his legal price, that is all that there is left to do with him. We don't live in a land of vigilante-ism - or he would have been strung up by people who don't care about the legal process. He had a change of heart and gave himself up. In return, we had mercy and gave him a light sentence. Unless we are a society of hard-hearted bastards that hold grudges forever, it is up to us to forgive him.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Howzat? My conservative core is screaming in agony right now... and I don't necessarily believe what I wrote above... but this is how I presented it to my guys. Yes, it is 'politico-speak' all the way, but it may be the only way we can do it fairly for our people.

Meanwhile, I go home and b!tch and whine to my wife... and wonder if I would get in trouble if I backed over him in a GV...

Give it a try! (the SPEECH, not backing over him!!!) :D :rolleyes:

[YNC Josh Braarud]

I'm one of those "bleeding heart" types, so here's my spin on it...

I'm a firm believer that if you did the time, then you should be given a second-chance in society. We, as a service, give second chances all the time. If we didn't, I bet half the people on this board wouldn't even be here to post. I know I wouldn't. Tell that to your junior personnel.

Sure, desertion is a pretty nasty crime, and rightly so. However, things were different back then. There was still a "positive" spin to the Stalinist agenda back then. We knew little as a public about the horrors committed in North Korea or the USSR. There was still a sizable portion of the American public who thought it was a decent alternative to the capitalist system. Also, Jenkins was a draftee. We've all met people who hated being in the Coast Guard. Imagine what they would be like if they weren't a voluntary enlistee? While another war was spinning up? I'm not saying that I'd desert, but I understand what some of the motivating factors are. He has his dishonorable discharge and spent time in the brig. If someone deserted their unit and was caught here in the U.S., they'd get the same thing. It's not a deportable crime, unless he wasn't an American citizen.

I love this country immensely and realize that freedom isn't free, to use a phrase that so needs to be retired*. I also admire the idea that we are a nation that forgives people who paid the price. At least he admitted he screwed up, served his time, and has stayed outside the spotlight. That should account for something.

If you really want to get would up about something that's screwed up in America, how about this one? Regardless of what you think about the guy, and what the verdict was, do you think anyone in their right mind would play a Michael Jackson song at a sporting event? So, why is it okay for them to play Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2"? Seriously. The next time you're in a stadium that plays it you should get everyone to walk out. If you're an accused child molester, you're the scum of the day. But if you're convicted of having and making child porn, we'll still ensure you make money from your music career. Yeah, that's fair.

By the way, my opening statement is not meant to start any political debate or a flaming email campaign. It's just a view from the other side of the spectrum. There are a couple of us in the Coast Guard.


*Like "facilitate," "skillset," "think outside the box," "value-added," "synergy," and "accountability management." We get it. Please stop saying them.

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Ask yourself this question- "Should his mother be allowed to see her son (the deserter)? If not, why not? What did she do wrong? Why are we punishing her?

I think he should absolutely be allowed to return for a visit with his mother. It is an act of compassion to the mother and will do nothing to instigate further desertions.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I by no means, have ever been accused of being anything close to liberal. But if you did the time......regardless of the crime, your debt has been paid. He did a fraction of what he was sentenced to, but all of what was required of him.
Todd, you can tell your people that times were different, but scum is scum. Everybody pays, one way or another. Many people who dodged the draft and headed to Canada never spent day one behind bars. The minute that the President gave them a pardon, the vast majority returned to a country they refused to support and defend, and continued to bad-mouth it and our system.
Josh, some people get away with things because the public isn't aware of the facts. Ignorance is bliss. Hollywood was trying to rally support to allow a child rapist back into the country so he could be presented with a directing award. People still pay money to see his movies. There is another actor/director who married his "daughter" and people still can't stop praising him.
There will always be great injustices in our justice system. Let's just be thankful that the guy did ANY time at all.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Just so long as they don't try to let him vote, carry a gun, join the local PTA, or anything resembling the rights afforded the rest of us.

[YNC Josh Braarud]

Just so long as they don't try to let him vote, carry a gun, join the local PTA, or anything resembling the rights afforded the rest of us.

Fully agreed. I forgot to add those things.

[DCCS Todd Holcomb]

Jerald, I'll borrow your answer. Then maybe the GV........

Senior Chief Slesh & Josh, Believe it or not I to agree "if you do the crime then do the time" your debt is paid. (I still don't like it)

Times were different then and yes we do have people who were pardoned after running to Canada. I also agree we all deserve a second chance and I definitely wouldn't be here if not for a second chance, or third and so on......but I'm not a deserter. there's a difference between a 2nd chance for the nonrate(or whoever) who came in late, or missed a car payment, or fell asleep on watch and what Jenkins did. There are people in the brig right now who will be doing a lot more time for lesser crimes(their poor mothers). I know, I know punishment was awarded and he paid his debt!!!!!!!!

Senior Chief Endicott, His mother shouldn't be punished, she has done nothing wrong. Didn't he by virtue of his actions begin the punishment for his mother?Will it instigate further desertions? I guess only time will tell.

Ken, 100+% behind you on that one.

I liked Jeralds answer and as said will "borrow" it.

You all make sense but I don't agree with the punishment. So if our soldiers, sailors and airmen, who are in the Gulf--- not "might" be going, start walking off and spend 40 years in Dubai, or many of the other countries in that part of the world, and then decide to come back we should let them after 30 days in the brig?

Would Jenkins have ever turned himself in if his wife had not been sent back to the south? Did he ever want to come see his mother over the past 40 years, before he and his wife were seperated by politics? Why not come forward then. People say he has suffered enough by having to live in that society, B.S. that was his decision.

Right or wrong, I feel the way I feel!!!!

I don't know the whole story and as with everything there are 3 sides, I don't know the right one. Fortunately for him it wasn't my decision or place to know the right side of the story.

Yes he may have been drafted but I didn't realize the UCMJ differentiated between "desertion as a volunteer" and "desertion as a draftee".

Shipmates, I appreciate the input and I'll pass on to my juniors the relevant parts.

Todd

Todd

[MKC Tony Balcer]

Todd:
ROFL! I think they should let him back in! Then hang his sorry ass for deserting!
MKC Tony Balcer

[DCCS Todd Holcomb]

Todd:
ROFL! I think they should let him back in! Then hang his sorry ass for deserting!
MKC Tony Balcer


RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Actually, I believe the Democratic party is looking for a new candidate, maybe he should inquire...

I had a SA that wasn't getting qualified at the station, was given extra break-in watches to assist in that. She felt she was being harrassed and decided to forge leave papers and hop a MAC flight to her home in Hawii.

After 30 days, CGI was put on the scent and returned her about a week later. The whole thing took place after we entered Iraq, so we made every attempt to have her listed as a deserter instead of UA/AWOL

She was sent to Group while being processed for discharge, and they loved her. Qualified her in THEIR comm center and wanted to send her BACK TO US after a slap on the wrist!

Sometimes there is no acounting for the judgement of some that are not at the pointy end of the stick...

Ken

[BMCS Dennis Endicott ret]

Ken-
That's why I don't advocate transferring problems. Unless there was a compelling reason to have her at the Group awaiting discharge, she should have remained at your unit.

[YNC Josh Braarud]

Actually, I believe the Democratic party is looking for a new candidate, maybe he should inquire...

Not of that caliber. ;)

[MKC Tony Balcer]

Dennis:

I totally agree with you. I have seen at least 5 people either sent to a Group or Dist. for "discharge", only to run into that person at the PX two months later. Then they inform me that they are no longer at the Gru or Dist, but infact have been reassigned to a completely different unit. IMHO that's BS! By the same token, I have also been at a unit that rcvd one of said people. He is currently being processed for discharge (again!). The funny thing is (or sad) they sent him back to the Gru!
Makes me slap my head sometimes!
MKC Tony Balcer

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Todd, I don't agree with the punishment he recieved. I think that deserters forfeit EVERYTHING. How can someone claim rights that they, themselves are not willing to fight to defend ? But, I didn't make the laws, or sentence him. And you're right about the having to live with himself BS. If he had a conscience, he wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Neither he, nor his mother, suffered nearly as much as some of the other familys' whose sons and daughters did their duty. If he would have thought about his mother before he deserted we could all be talking about something else. Still he paid his debt to society. He could never have done enough time to satisfy me.

[BMC Ken Gouge]

Dennis,
The Group CO made the call on that one. 3 hour drive from group, and he wanted her nearer the paperwork. The comm-center idea was theirs because they needed something for her to do all day. I had a LT CO there, and I don't know if there were other considerations for sending her to Group (I was a BM1 at the time and not privy to such things) other than the good order at OUR unit. Her laziness and atitude was a drain and a morale problem for the section she was in.

The good news is I think she ended up being discharged for unsuitability anyway.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

One problem with sending people to the Group is that they start comparing the person to the rest of the "refugees from the island of misfit toys" instead of against the standard that we should hold all of our people up to. Another problem is that the person sometimes improves because they are now in the environment that they wanted to be in, in the first place. That's just postponing their eventual discharge. What happens when they get sent back into an operational unit where duty and a little responsibility comes back into play ? Well, Ken just answered that one.