The CPOA National Election 2009

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

How about a thread for anyone who is running to get their platform out there and discuss their vision. And please keep the on going legal debate over at The Great Debate thread (to name just one of them).

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

And after I started this thread I went to the National CPOA web site to check on the nomination requirements and procedures as weel as the election rules. And what a surprise, it's everything from 2007....but I though that was all overturned in 2008 in Houston? The scuttlebutt from the shipp is that nominations opened today. But what do you send, in wnat format and to who?
Maybe those darn minutes from the last convention would help...oh wait we already covered that "oversight".

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Bruce...I'm considering throwing my name in for either Secretary or Treasurer, haven't completly decided though.

As far as my platform? I have a vast variety of ideas...

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

I'm Master Chief Bruce Bradley and I'm running for one of the 3 Regional Advisors that are the National Board of Directors.

[ISCM Mark A. Pearson]

Hello, my name is Master Chief Mark Pearson, and I am seeking the opportunity to serve as your National Vice President.

Currently I am the President of the Yorktown Chapter, and I am a Silver Lifetime Member of the Chief Petty Officers Association (CPOA). I have represented the Yorktown Chapter as a Primary or Alternate Delegate at the last four National Conventions. Prior to being elected Chapter President in 2007 I served for nearly two years as Yorktown’s Vice President. On a national level I have served on the Captain Caliendo College Assistance Fund (CCCAF) Committee, and am now on the National Bylaws Committee.

Everything rises and falls on leadership. The CPOA is currently in need of strong passionate leadership, and if elected I promise you that that is what you will get from your National Vice President. I believe in the Association, and I believe in what we do. Unfortunately belief alone is not getting it done. As an Association we are failing to connect with our newest Chiefs. Active duty involvement in all of our Chapters is falling off. The Association’s very existence is in jeopardy. Our retired Chiefs are invaluable to our Association, but only greater involvement by our active duty Chiefs can save the Association we all love. It is time for the active duty Chiefs to step up and lead by example. If given the opportunity to serve as your National Vice President I promise to be a guide for those who follow. We are members of the greatest association of Chief Petty Officers there is, so let’s create an atmosphere and a legacy we can all be proud of.


Yours in service,

ISCM Mark A. Pearson

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

SCPO Charles Womack USCG (ret)
Candidate for
National President

Fellow Chiefs; I come seeking your support and vote as your next CPOA National President. I believe our Association needs a new direction brought forth by a new vision and sound leadership. It is my most sincere goal to do everything possible to provide the leadership and vision to make the Chief Petty Officers Association once again a great organization.

One of my favorite quotes goes like this, “If you want more of what you have got, then keep doing what you are doing.” Our organization has continued to do what we have been doing for years. Our growth is almost non existent, our financial resources has remained near the same, our support of CCCAF has not changed and no real difference in benefits has occurred in recent years. We are not keeping up with the ever-evolving needs nor using the tools now provided for and by today’s Chief Petty Officer. It is time to change all this and it all starts with your vote.

What concerns me most about our organization is:

 Our need to become relevant with the Coast Guard.

 Our need for increased member services and catch up with today’s rapidly changing world.

 Our need for a much better information flow.

 Our need to get into the electronic age.

 Our need to find ways of increasing our membership and our finances.

 Our need for a big recruiting effort in the Coast Guard Enlisted Association, for they are our future.

 Our need to increase CCCAF awards, for they are our children.

 Our need to determine if our staffing is adequate to serve our membership, for they are our purpose.

This list is not all-inclusive, however working with these starting principles change can begin.

What is my vision, you might ask.

 Build new relationships with the Chief’s Mess and Local Commands. Create and find resources that will permit us to assure the MCPO-CG we are here to help all Guardians in need and not just the membership. Learn how to communicate with today’s Chief Petty Officer. Foster Chapter participation in this endeavor.

 Become proficient electronically. We should be doing everything with membership, publications and preparing for Convention through electronic media. Keep our Officers, the Board of Directors and our Standing Committees engaged through online meetings.

 Continue to encourage and grow the allotment system of paying dues and consider multi year memberships as well. Create value in being a member of CPOA. Bridge the communication gap between where we are as an organization and today’s Chief Petty Officer.

 Seek new funding investments, sponsorships and fundraising techniques.

 Instill in our officers they are the leadership of our organization and not figureheads or staff. The Officers will work closely with each new initiative fostered during their term. Ensure the Board of Directors work on the information flow in both directions. Bring the memberships desires and ideas to the table between annual meetings and keep the members informed of our progress.

 Empower and Drive our committees to establish goals, accomplish the goals, and put the end results into action. Year-round committee participation is one way we can supplement our staff.

 Work with The Military Coalition on all legislation that is important to our membership and report back our efforts.

 Develop ways for our National Office to better serve the membership and the Chapters. Ensure each mandate of the National Convention is carried out.

As for my experience with CPOA, it consists of over 22 years. This includes a Silver Lifetime Membership; the honor of serving in the capacity of Chapter President 4 terms; Chapter Vice President 1 term and currently serving 1 term in Mobile, AL. It is as well my pleasure to have served as Chapter Secretary, 4 terms; member of several National Standing and Convention Committees, beginning in 1995 until present. Now currently serving as Chairman, Executive Director/National Office Review Adhoc Committee.

Most recently my National experience, from 2004 to 2006, was to serve as your National Vice President. It is this past knowledge that tells me of our need for us to transform into a modern organization. This will be no easy task and simply will not happen overnight. It is a task, I believe, we must undertake. I believe there is still a need for service organizations such as CPOA and that a lot of important work is yet to be done. I seek your support and vote in this election. United we can change! United we can once again become a Great Organization!

If elected I will serve the entire term. You may find further discussions on such topics concerning CPOA and my views at http://www.cgchiefs.com/forum. Please join in the Forums, make your voice heard and challenge your candidates to open debate in order to make an informed decision in this upcoming election! You may also contact me direct with any questions you may have at chwomack@gmail.com


Yours in Service
Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I am glad to see people posting their desires for National Officers.. Deane, I await yours... and anyone elses.. Is Stu a member of the CPOA? He always has an opinion, and, is not shy to post it.. I have seen very little from him here, or any other thread concerning the CPOA. Most of his posts lead me to believe he is seeking a "gold badge" position somewhere... sometime. Stu? I welcome (& expect) your comments....

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I am glad to see people posting their desires for National Officers.. Deane, I await yours... and anyone elses..

Wray...While I'm deciding are you going to post yours?

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Nope..........

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Charlie,

Nice touch on promoting the forums.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

 Our need for a big recruiting effort in the Coast Guard Enlisted Association, for they are our future.

Charlie, I take it you do not see the need for, or desire the separation of, the Chief's from the rest of the enlisted members. Once again, when the CGEA was taken in under the wing of the CPOA, it was "supposed to be" for a short period (like a year or two) until they could be on their own. That appears to have gone away. I really fail to see why you are so concerned with a "big recruiting effort for the CGEA"... you should concentrate on the CPOA. That is what you desire to be the President of...isn't it? Let the CGEA do their own recruiting.

Another item I have concern with is the dues issue... If elected President, what do you intend to do about that.. if anything?

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie, I just got a new "Retiree/Annuitant statement of monthly income" My Delta Dental monthly rate has changed.. ya know what.. I didn't change it.. it was an automatic thing..

So, since this can be done with an "outside" company, do you not think the Commandant could make this happen for the CPOA dues??

The real problem is the right question has not been asked to the right person.
Perhaps if the CPOA were to get the "right" person as President this issue could be resolved very simply.

If you want my vote you will have to earn it.. so far you have not. As I said earlier, you are running for President of the CPOA, not President of all enlisted members. If that is what the CPOA wants to be they should change their name. Their image has already changed.

The desires of E-6 and below to join the CPOA have left. The mystique & desire is gone. They can now get our magazine from the time they are E-3's.

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, I take it you do not see the need for, or desire the separation of, the Chief's from the rest of the enlisted members. Once again, when the CGEA was taken in under the wing of the CPOA, it was "supposed to be" for a short period (like a year or two) until they could be on their own. That appears to have gone away. I really fail to see why you are so concerned with a "big recruiting effort for the CGEA"... you should concentrate on the CPOA. That is what you desire to be the President of...isn't it? Let the CGEA do their own recruiting.

Another item I have concern with is the dues issue... If elected President, what do you intend to do about that.. if anything?

Wray... :cool:

Wray,

1st, the CGEA is not able to go out on their own. Membership is not there to support the benefits they now get for membership. For there to be separation there must be growth. The CPOA promised to mentor and grow the organization to that point. We have not done so.

2nd, there is a whole new mindset about belonging to organizations now. It is not like when you and I came along. We need to get the importance and desire implanted in them long before they make E-7.

3td, When they separate, making E-7 will not automatically enroll them in CPOA. We will have to recruit them. Is it easier to recruit someone with some experience of what we do, or someone who has never been exposed?

4th, understand that CGEA is it's own organization under the corporate umbrella of CPOA, the same as the CPOAA. We have oversight and provide adminsitrative support and that is it. There will be a day when they are completely separated from us, and it is up to us to see this through.

I see this effort to pay big dividends to the future CPOA.

Dues:
So far, only you and one other that I know of think we should send the members back their dues each year until they either change their allotment or stop it.

I will continue efforts to get all these people to change their allotment. We will talk again with the Coast Guard about blanket changes to our dues.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, I just got a new "Retiree/Annuitant statement of monthly income" My Delta Dental monthly rate has changed.. ya know what.. I didn't change it.. it was an automatic thing..

So, since this can be done with an "outside" company, do you not think the Commandant could make this happen for the CPOA dues??

The real problem is the right question has not been asked to the right person.
Perhaps if the CPOA were to get the "right" person as President this issue could be resolved very simply.

If you want my vote you will have to earn it.. so far you have not. As I said earlier, you are running for President of the CPOA, not President of all enlisted members. If that is what the CPOA wants to be they should change their name. Their image has already changed.

The desires of E-6 and below to join the CPOA have left. The mystique & desire is gone. They can now get our magazine from the time they are E-3's.

Wray... :cool:

Wray,

We have talked to the Coast Guard and they said it is different. The right questions have been asked and we were told it could not be done. This was discussed in another thread some time back. As I said earlier we will continue to pursue this problem, and I only wish it was as simple as you have indicated.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings,

Wray has posed some issues he has with the association and I would like the other candidates (regardless of office you are running for) to express your views also.

Charlie

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Charlie, I take it you do not see the need for, or desire the separation of, the Chief's from the rest of the enlisted members. Once again, when the CGEA was taken in under the wing of the CPOA, it was "supposed to be" for a short period (like a year or two) until they could be on their own. That appears to have gone away. I really fail to see why you are so concerned with a "big recruiting effort for the CGEA"... you should concentrate on the CPOA. That is what you desire to be the President of...isn't it? Let the CGEA do their own recruiting.

Another item I have concern with is the dues issue... If elected President, what do you intend to do about that.. if anything?

Wray... :cool:

Wray, although the initial intent when forming the CGEA was for them to move out on their own, I highly doubt that that can happen, at least in the near future. The CGEA is a stepping stone if you will to the CPOA. And with that we have a knowledge base that stays with us. About any time that a CGEA member gets to that point, they would hopefully (for them) be making Chief and moving on to the CPOA. They will always have to be under the CPOA umbrella in some shape or form. And a question back at you on this topic, do you feel the same way about the CPOAA as the CGEA?

On the dues issue, I think that there is a way to do it. It might take a little compromise on both sides to make it happen, but anything is possible. Like the other examples you listed, those are voluntary alliances between you and the "provider". We just need to establish that type of working relationship.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Bruce,
Please show me where I said anything about giving dues back...

You said:
So far, only you and one other that I know of think we should send the members back their dues each year until they either change their allotment or stop it.

As for the CGEA.... they were not part of the organization I joined. I had no say in taking them in. It seems very hard for you to understand that. The name of our magazine should help you out. Did you or anyone else ever think we may have offered this for a trial period, to get the CGEA on their feet, but after that it's sink or swim.

As for the CPOAA of course they belong.. to ask that question only points out your lack of understanding on this issue.

It is obvious the CPOA is in it for the $$$$$, simply because they can not get enough "CHIEF" support. Bringing in the rest of the enlisted force will only decrease CPO memberships in the long run....... wait & see.

Wray... :cool:
P.S. I too encourage others to comment on these issues. I hope we get to choose between 3 or 4 people.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Bruce,
Please show me where I said anything about giving dues back...
.

Wray, first I need you to show me where I said that?????

I was saying that I believe that there is a way to fix the issue and increase the dues being paid from retired members. But it will take some work and compromise on both sides.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Bruce,

As for the CGEA.... they were not part of the organization I joined. I had no say in taking them in. It seems very hard for you to understand that. The name of our magazine should help you out. Did you or anyone else ever think we may have offered this for a trial period, to get the CGEA on their feet, but after that it's sink or swim.

As for the CPOAA of course they belong.. to ask that question only points out your lack of understanding on this issue.


And I'll counter that the CPOAA was not part of the organization when the CPOA started, it came after the fact like to CGEA. I for one question some of the membership "rules" of the CPOAA and with that question their alliance with the CPOA. And the name of the magazine was "The Chief" the last time I checked, so why have any other groups? Why does the CPOAA belong ? Those are questions and not a stance before you fire that off at me.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Bruce,
Actually I believe the CPOAA was part of the organization I joined.. Jean R. Schott was the President back in 1978 when I did join.

Regardless.......... they are an "Auxilary" unit of the organization I joined.. Wives of Chief, Senior Chief & Master Chiefs....... They have done a wonderful job supporting us.. The CPOA. I thank them for their support.

By the way... Rita... How ya doin'???? How is that brother of yours (Jim Rothermel) doing.. I need to say hi to him. God we had fun.....

Wray... :Cool:

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Wray,

Charlie mentioned the returning of the dues, not Bruce.

I'm thinking a mea culpa is in order.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Joe, thanks for the correction.. Bruce, sorry for the mix up....

And the short answer, for anyone or all.. I believe the CPOAA is and belongs a part of the CPOA. The CGEA & CGEAA on the other hand doesn't.

Just my opinion.

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Bruce,
Actually I believe the CPOAA was part of the organization I joined.. Jean R. Schott was the President back in 1978 when I did join.

Regardless.......... they are an "Auxilary" unit of the organization I joined.. Wives of Chief, Senior Chief & Master Chiefs....... They have done a wonderful job supporting us.. The CPOA. I thank them for their support.

By the way... Rita... How ya doin'???? How is that brother of yours (Jim Rothermel) doing.. I need to say hi to him. God we had fun.....

Wray... :Cool:

Wray

If you do talk to JJ, give my regards + Rita & John

Jim

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Wray has posed some issues he has with the association and I would like the other candidates (regardless of office you are running for) to express your views also.

Here is my position on the two issues that Wray brought up:

CGEA - If they can't support themselves and would like to maintain their association, we need to continue to support them. We're Chiefs, that's what we do for our junior enlisted personnel. Having said that...I would want to get together with the CGEA and determine their status and what the best course of action would be.

Dues - The correct amount of dues needs to be paid by all members. We need to use all available resources to contact these members and inform them (even though I suspect they already know) of the dues increase. As far as the fiscal implications of dropping members, I would need to look at the entire fiscal situation and see what ramifications that would present. There are a lot of elements in play here and to just drop members that are paying something might be financially irresponsible of the association. Again...I would have to see the entire fiscal breakdown to make a good decision.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

So Deane are you in, out or just posting opinions from the fence?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Bruce...I'm in.

[BMCS Bob Milmoe]

Deane, good for you. You've got my vote.

Bob

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Hey Bruce, Why don't you throw your hat in the ring for National President, I truely believe that this new regional advisor BOD will be declared null & void during the next year. I think you're the man for the job!!!

Jim

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Bruce...I'm in.

Deane, good deal, what are your running for?

Hey Bruce, Why don't you throw your hat in the ring for National President, I truely believe that this new regional advisor BOD will be declared null & void during the next year. I think you're the man for the job!!!
Jim

Well Jim, to say that I'm a bit of a controversial candidate for the CPOA might be a large of an understatement after the past year's "activities". But I still believe that the CPOA has a needed purpose and that when it is working on all levels that it adds value to not only the Coast Guard, but every Chiefs Mess out there. I dont believe that I have a chance at winning the top seat, but I do have a strong desire to serve and help re-right things, thus I'm seeking a NBOD seat. I do not believe that members can or should be allowed to run for mutiple offices just so that they have an election lifeline. Something in that plan puzzles me that we allow it.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Deane, good deal, what are your running for?

Bruce...I plan to run for Treasurer. I'll post more on my vision later.

[GMC Mark Cortor]

Hello to all, for those of you that have been unable to attend CPOA National Convention the past two year, I'm the current President of the Petaluma Chapter of our beloved CPOA. I'm one of those young active duty Chiefs (13 years) who have monitored this site with much reservation to comment, but not because of a lack what to say or passion. This is a public forum and many of the discussions led to personal attacks which I don't agree with. For those who have met me and attended National Conventions in the past two years, you also know that I don't agree with the way our National CPOA is being run, but the only way to change is to get involved and stop the attacks on those who have served our country and association proudly for over 40+ years.

As a member and then President of the Petaluma Chapter, I have attended nearly every Welcome and Graduation dinner of the CPO Academy in the past three years. By example, I've changed the old ways of just a couple of volunteers for the Welcome dinner into a force of 8-12 each dinner. The best part is it’s not always the same old faces getting it done, but young new faces each and every time now. I have served as a member and chairman of the CPO Academy Funding/Support committee at National the past two years. This past year, our committee recommended that National should always support the CPO Academy, but that we would ask for chapter sponsorship for each and every FY09 CPO Academy class. This recommendation, I took for action and have been able to save National $2,200over the next year with 100% sponsorship of the next 11 classes and have excited the newest Chiefs to become member of our association.

I'm currently in the process of becoming a Silver Lifetime Member, which should be finalized December of this year.

I would like to serves as a Regional Advisor on the CPOA National BOD to assist in facilitate change within our association.

I support CMC Bruce Bradley in his efforts also to become a Regional Advisor on the CPOA National BOD. His wisdom and leadership would tremendously assist in change that our association needs.

Thank you for your time and a special thanks to those who have encourage/support me within this outstanding association.

Vote For:
GMC Mark A. Cortor
CPOA National BOD, Regional Advisor

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Bruce,
Please show me where I said anything about giving dues back...



Wray, Bruce, and others

I had gotten a couple replies about returning the $18 and then the comment "we are only in it for the money". Sorry if I confused who said what. My most sincere apology for mixing it up. (another senior moment)

One thought on the difference between dues and Delta Dental. Delta Dental is more than likely handled as a payroll deduction. Just like any company offering insurance it is deducted from their check and if the rate changes so does the deduction. Your choice is to have or not to have. Not how much you pay.

An allotment is voluntary and the member decides the amount. If you have a savings allotment you made out for an amount then the Coast Guard can not change that amount. Again same as any company with a thrift savings plan or contributory retirement plan. The member decides the amount, and the company cannot arbritrarily change it for you, you must do it.

The allotment is a completely different issue than payroll deduction.

Now before anyone yells at me, I have not have a change to check this out completely, and hope to get confirmation.

Charlie

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Charlie,

The payroll deduction is probably the best explaination of the situation. This doesn't resolve the allotment issue, but it certainly can help the association to move forward by having the Association dues be a payroll deduction.

Nice call.

[ISCM Mark A. Pearson]

Chief Cortor,

I am happy to see that you have decided to run for one of the Regional Advisor positions. It was evident to me at the last two National Conventions that you have a strong desire to make this Association successful. I hope we have the opportunity to serve together on the National BOD.

Good luck.

Mark Pearson

[GMC Mark Cortor]

Master Chief Pearson,

Thank you and I also look forward to the possiblity of working with you at the National level to facilitate change. Wow, CHANGE, sound much like our nations current Presidential election theme!

Good Luck! :)

Mark Cortor

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Good deal Mark, welcome to the start of hopefully needed changes. Thanks for stepping up also.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Greetings,

It is my hope that everyone thinks it is a little early yet to get into this thread.
If not then we are not making progress.

It is not to early to start quizzing candidates and asking where are the others. Jan is just around the corner. The holidays will be upon us and we will be busy and next thing you know it's election time and no information is passed.

This is a great place to see where the candidates stand. Ask Away!! The ones who have posted their intentions are awaiting you questions and comments.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

The payroll deduction is probably the best explaination of the situation. This doesn't resolve the allotment issue, but it certainly can help the association to move forward by having the Association dues be a payroll deduction.

Nice call.

Any YN's lurking about??? Looked this up and found these deductions to be in two categories. Discretionary and Non-discretionary. I could not find how they are defined.

I did find Insurance under one list and our dues under the other. What defines the difference?

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie, why not just write the President of the CPOA... Was he not a YNC? lol....

on a real note.. how about Tim Moody... or even the "Executive Director" who was a YNCM I believe..... I bet they could answer this for ya.

Wray.... :cool:

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

In case you all missed it, the minutes of the last convention have been posted....here is a link:

http://www.uscgcpoa.org/0-main/downloads/pdf/40th_conv_minutes.pdf

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

I think I should have put the minutes on a new thread.. They may be a good topic of discussion... Particularly the budget... take a look at those building costs.. for what, one person?

Any thoughts anyone?

Wray... :cool:

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I think I should have put the minutes on a new thread.. They may be a good topic of discussion... Particularly the budget... take a look at those building costs.. for what, one person?

Any thoughts anyone?

Off the top of my head, I would say that postage and "The Chief" could be substantially lowered (by 10's of thousands of dollars) by implementing on line resources and using email to mail those things that can be.

I would convert "The Chief" to an Microsoft Office Publisher type program and make it available on line via the website. I would have a drop dead date of 01JAN2010 when everyone will stop getting the mailed version. For those that want to continue to get it mailed, they would have until 01JAN2010 to make that known to national and they would still receive it via email. I think this alone could save half of the current $50,000+ annually.

I would also make available on line ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that can be. Why can't the local chapters get their info on line or via email instead of through the mail? Postage is $11,000 annually...we have to reduce that.

There are definitely areas that need to be addressed and as a nominee for Treasurer that will be my primary focus...reduce costs where they can be reduced.

Also, I think a very thorough look at what the ED is doing and with what needs to be addressed. We have to replace antiquated systems and procedures and get our association into the current century. Technology is a wonderful thing...we should try it!

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Deane,
I am not sure of the CHIEF postage costs... they should go out in "Bulk" and as a "non profit" organization they shouldn't be that expensive.. After all, those that get just the magazine pay $11.00 per year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at, but, I bet there are things that are far more wasteful... Time for a complete budget review...

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Deane,
I am not sure of the CHIEF postage costs... they should go out in "Bulk" and as a "non profit" organization they shouldn't be that expensive.. After all, those that get just the magazine pay $11.00 per year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at, but, I bet there are things that are far more wasteful... Time for a complete budget review...

Wray... :cool:

Wray, The mailing of the magazine is not apart of that $11,000, I don't know what they mail out other than to chapters monthly and maybe a few membership cards, this is one of the line items that I have questioned for years.

Jim

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I noticed another potential discrepancy on the report. It shows 9,500 members paying $24/year for a total of $228,000. If there are some that are only paying the $18/year, that number is too high. There should be another line item for those paying the incorrect amount and the $24 group should be adjusted accordingly. My point is...if we have 9,500 members and they are not ALL paying the $24/year, that line item is being mis-reported.

I might be missing something, but it doesn't look right to me.



Wray & Jim...the line item for "The Chief" is $52,000 it includes printing, distribution & postage. If we can reduce the number of people who want it mailed, we reduce all three of these costs. I think it would be possible to cut this number in half if members understand the goal an opt for an email/on line version. It will take support of members/chapters to make any of this work.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Deane,
Charlie has those numbers.. ($18 vs $24) he has posted them here before. I agree, they should be shown as a separate line item on the budget.

Doesn't anyone else question the leadership and direction of an organization that can't even collect the correct amout for dues... Please list all the organizations that you know which would allow such a thing. As we all know, if we didn't pay the correct amout for dues we would be out on our ear... Not so, with the CPOA.

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Deane,
Charlie has those numbers.. ($18 vs $24) he has posted them here before. I agree, they should be shown as a separate line item on the budget.

Doesn't anyone else question the leadership and direction of an organization that can't even collect the correct amout for dues... Please list all the organizations that you know which would allow such a thing. As we all know, if we didn't pay the correct amout for dues we would be out on our ear... Not so, with the CPOA.

Wray... :cool:

Wray & Deane, Like the U.S. Budget, I see alot of "PORK" in the associations. In 2002 budget the ED was allowed $250.00 for local travel, he now has $2,000 for that, I know gas has gone up but!!!

Jim

[CMC Isherwood]

Sometimes it is extremely frustrating to read this stuff. It’s like many of you “Johnny Come Lately’s” that come rushing in to save the CPOA day, think the rest of us have been sitting on our thumbs. NOTHING is ever as simple as it appears.

The CPOA is badly broken at the National Level and has been for many years. This is NOT a secret!!! The mechanism to fix CPOA National was put in place in Vegas via the “vote at convention resolution” and then defeated in Houston.

Many of these “NEW” ideas have been discussed over and over at convention for more than 6 years. Most were approved by the attendees and then not implemented by the National Officers. Remember, 1 week of work followed by 51 weeks of INACTIVITY.

If you are not a CPOA member you aren’t helping. If the extent of your CPOA involvement is this website, you aren’t helping. If you are just going to complain, you aren’t helping. If you have good ideas and are willing to work we CAN use your HELP!!

For your reading and researching pleasure, I have attached some of the reports that I could find.
Enjoy.

Kevin Isherwood
GLM and former National Membership Chair

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Wray,

Remember the boats we ran in our day. They have changed greatly. The ones they have now was only a figment of our imagination. I am sure the rules of pay have changed about the same for a couple old-timers like Jon and Tom.

Charlie
another old-timer

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

I noticed another potential discrepancy on the report. It shows 9,500 members paying $24/year for a total of $228,000. If there are some that are only paying the $18/year, that number is too high. There should be another line item for those paying the incorrect amount and the $24 group should be adjusted accordingly. My point is...if we have 9,500 members and they are not ALL paying the $24/year, that line item is being mis-reported.

I might be missing something, but it doesn't look right to me.



Wray & Jim...the line item for "The Chief" is $52,000 it includes printing, distribution & postage. If we can reduce the number of people who want it mailed, we reduce all three of these costs. I think it would be possible to cut this number in half if members understand the goal an opt for an email/on line version. It will take support of members/chapters to make any of this work.

I brought this up at convention. You would not believe the answer we got. It is all paperwork money to the current leadership.

As President we will have accurate accounting numbers for the income section. We do have the ability to know exactly what our income is. I think they were trying to account for possible increases but that is a no-no for a budget. You budget what you know is absolute and any extra income should be gravy. We had them go back and give us previous budget vs actual expense and then compared the new request with those numbers. The budget did make some sense from that prospective, but still did not solve the income issue.

Myself and Jack Crowley have looked into the magazine cost a little. We spend around 10 - 11K for a 10,000 distrubution. When we checked a year ago, The Reservist was about 16K for 25,000. (anyone doing any math) Difference being, they do desktop publishing. Everything can be submitted electronically to the editor and he inturn does the same to the publisher. The Chief is still hand done and hand carried to the publisher, who has to do it the old fashion way. I have been told we get the best price D C has to offer. But we have never inquired about electronic submissions to a publisher. We would also be able to go out nationwide for a publisher and get the best price possible since we would submit electronically. etc etc etc. Another one of my Presidential projects.

Charlie
Running for President

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Deane,
Charlie has those numbers.. ($18 vs $24) he has posted them here before. I agree, they should be shown as a separate line item on the budget.

Doesn't anyone else question the leadership and direction of an organization that can't even collect the correct amout for dues... Please list all the organizations that you know which would allow such a thing. As we all know, if we didn't pay the correct amout for dues we would be out on our ear... Not so, with the CPOA.

Wray... :cool:

I am glad you brought this up. I have laid this problem out many times. Let me try again.

1. We use the allotment system.
2. (new information) Our allotments are under the discretionary type of allotment.
3. Only the member can take action of any kind on it.
4. We know at least 1000 of the 1200 get the magazine, based on the number we have returned. Thus, EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE DUES INCREASE OF 8 YEARS AGO.
5. Notices was sent. It is still an article in THE CHIEF
6. The members do not change nor do they stop the allotment.
7. You cannot compare to other organizations as I do not believe any others use the allotment system for dues. (or at least I can not find any indication)

No one has come up with a solution.

As president it would be very un-presidential to send 1200 refusal checks out at a cost of $??? for money that has been voluntarily sent to us for some reason. If this offends anyone who is not seeking a position of fiscal responsibility, I'm sorry. But until an absolute solution can be found...

Allotment is serious cost savings. For each cash payment we send out a notice annually, We then get the returned dues payment and then send out their card. For those who are delinquent we then send a second notice.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Also, I think a very thorough look at what the ED is doing and with what needs to be addressed. We have to replace antiquated systems and procedures and get our association into the current century. Technology is a wonderful thing...we should try it!

We have a committee working on this now. And as President this will be further looked into. I agree with your technology theory.

Charlie

[BMCM Deane Smith]

We have a committee working on this now. And as President this will be further looked into. I agree with your technology theory.

We've had committees working on it for years, we need to actually do some of the things that committees recommend. Some of the things that are recommended get recommended every year and nothing gets done...ask Kevin or look at his recent membership attachments. The same can be said for the committee I sat on in St Louis several years ago...nothing was followed up on and similar items are still being proposed. It's a open loop...

Charlie...let me ask you two questions. First, as our President how exactly are you going to get things done? What are you going to do different than what's been done over the last few years? Second, in your opinion is the ED open for change? It appears that he hasn't made any significant changes/upgrades/improvements since who knows when. So...is he a source of the problem? I'm just asking the question, I mean know disrespect to the ED. I think it's a fair question to ask.

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Charlie, your post sounds like McCain talking.. He has said he knows how to correct the financial mess we are in..if elected president. What he failed to do is tell us why he didn't do anything about it while he was a seated senator. I don't believe he can fixed the problem.. like wise, since the CPOA has had committees working on this, and they haven't fixed the problem as of yet, why should or would I believe you will fix it if elected? How many years has it been?????

Wray... :cool:

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

We've had committees working on it for years, we need to actually do some of the things that committees recommend. Some of the things that are recommended get recommended every year and nothing gets done...ask Kevin or look at his recent membership attachments. The same can be said for the committee I sat on in St Louis several years ago...nothing was followed up on and similar items are still being proposed. It's a open loop...

Charlie...let me ask you two questions. First, as our President how exactly are you going to get things done? What are you going to do different than what's been done over the last few years? Second, in your opinion is the ED open for change? It appears that he hasn't made any significant changes/upgrades/improvements since who knows when. So...is he a source of the problem? I'm just asking the question, I mean know disrespect to the ED. I think it's a fair question to ask.

Correct concerning committee recommendations. Problem being no one is delegated to carry out the recommendations and that creates no accountability. If elected first we have to get committees working year round. The first change to make is our thinking. It is easy to sit in committee and make a list of recommendations. We must think in terms of setting obtainable goals. Once the goals are set, they must be reached. Each committee report should state who is responsible and what is required to achieve the goal. Place the goal into action. Leadership will be responsible for certain committees and doing the follow-up to ensure the work is getting done. Reports will be required at a min of quarterly and should state the % complete.

Secondly, Explore how much stuff can be accomplished electronically. We are sorely behind in this area. Possibility of an editor for THE CHIEF outside the National Office. Monthly Officer meetings via electronic means. B O D meetings as needed electronically with a min of the meetings required in the bylaws. Attempt to engage the Chapter Presidents in the same manner. Volunteers from the Washington D C area to help out in the National Office and with appearances representing CPOA.

Let there be no mistake, I think the world of Tom Scarmastro. He has done a lot of good work over the years for the association. However, I think it is time for the hard talk. The association cannot wait any longer.

Thanks for the questions,
Charlie

[CMC Isherwood]

Deane,
It's not the "systems". Mr. Gates has provided many, many useful office tools that could be employed to address most of our issues. These useful office tools come as a standard package with EVERY computer purchased and publisher software costs next to nothing in the scheme of things.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, your post sounds like McCain talking.. He has said he knows how to correct the financial mess we are in..if elected president. What he failed to do is tell us why he didn't do anything about it while he was a seated senator. I don't believe he can fixed the problem.. like wise, since the CPOA has had committees working on this, and they haven't fixed the problem as of yet, why should or would I believe you will fix it if elected? How many years has it been?????

Wray... :cool:

Depends on what you say is wrong.

We identified the income thing about the budget, now we have to hold the leadership and leadership to be accountable. It is an easy fix, just use the right numbers.

The delegates and the membership as a whole has to accept (from experience of being there) some of the numbers will not match from year to year. There can be any number of reasons thus another function of a B O D who has the authority to MANAGE between conventions. The hardest thing is to stay under budget and that is the goal. How do we do this,

First we elect Deane or Bill (I heard Bill Segelken is going to run)Treasurer. (new blood) Make the Treasurer's function "Way's and Mean's." Seek out fundraising efforts and corporate sponsorships. Secondly, Let all who have request know they get what they request.(justification accepted if proven to be in best interest of association) If a program ask for $2K and then send a bill for $2.5K they get a check for $2K. Thirdly, cut cost everywhere possible. (I am not in favor of doing away with the building.)

Everyone must agree that the financial aspects of any organization or business is a 365 day evolution. You simply cannot account for every penny, and every unforseen circumstance sitting at a table for a few hours once a year. Management is the key to success.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Seek out fundraising efforts

Charlie, don't you think the very FIRST thing to do is get everyone paying the correct dues amount?

Yes or no?

Wray... :cool:

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

If a person decides to run for national office, who is the nomination & ballot committee? what is their address? Where can you find all needed info? Bylaws section IV Elections leaves alot to be desired,

Jim

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Kevin & Charlie...I'm onboard with the way you two approach and think about this stuff. And, Charlie thanks for responding.

I'm all for anything that can be done on line or electronically...should be! At my Sector, we have monthly ESC meetings, we all log into Net Meeting and connect to someones computer. Then we all see the documents that we need to and we all connect via a phone conference. This would also work for the CPOA BOD for those meetings where it's not required to be sitting in the same room.

Again, our Sector has a monthly newsletter that is put together by Publisher. It's easy to use and can be converted to a PDF file for emailing or posting to the website.

[CMC Isherwood]

Long Range Planning Chair Linda Reed attempted do web type meetings at least 4 years ago. Far too progressive for us...so it failed and I have not seen her in a couple years.

You can only beat your head on the wall for so long before you invest your efforts elsewhere. I assure you that if I were not wed to this association through blood, I would have been LONG GONE years ago!!!

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Long Range Planning Chair Linda Reed attempted do web type meetings at least 4 years ago. Far too progressive for us...so it failed and I have not seen her in a couple years.

If a bunch of WLR OIC's can figure it out, I think the CPOA could get a round turn on it. It's all about the desire and want to do it...but you know that.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

If a person decides to run for national office, who is the nomination & ballot committee? what is their address? Where can you find all needed info? Bylaws section IV Elections leaves alot to be desired,

Jim

And I brought this up during the convention but because of a very small minority of people making sure less than 10% of the membership could vote directly was much more important. So you get what you asked for.

We had the right plan in place and no one could see it because of emotion instead of logic. The resolution was the worse case of anything passing we have ever done. But again you got what you asked for, and I will help see it through, AS IS.

Charlie

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Charlie,

Members not in good standing
I know your not in favor of returning dues, but you could do a bulk mailing of post cards thanking the member for their contribution to the CPOA reminding them the dues are now $24 and only members in good standing receive the magazine.

As far as the magazine goes, it could be printed to a pdf and places on the website (if you don't want to maintain an email list). Bulk rate mail must have a minimum of 200 pieces, so there is a lot of room for you to save.

Virtual committee meetings
I've been using netmeeting for years. These forums have a chat function where you can create seperate rooms and hold meetings. There are other technologies out there where you can hold video conferencing between a group of people ... hell, yahoo instant messenger comes to mind ... where you can do video, audio, and text. That technology became commonplace with Windows 95, over a decade ago.

For the price of travel, you could hold monthly virtual meetings for the Executive Board and committees via a commercial source, and still save money.

Forums ... on the CPOA website
This is another avenue where members in good standing can interface and discuss the good, bad, and ugly.

Copyright, 2008, Joe Jester

Since I am not a member and according to some not allowed an opinion on these matters, you are not authorized to use anything I stated here.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

And I brought this up during the convention but because of a very small minority of people making sure less than 10% of the membership could vote directly was much more important. So you get what you asked for.

We had the right plan in place and no one could see it because of emotion instead of logic. The resolution was the worse case of anything passing we have ever done. But again you got what you asked for, and I will help see it through, AS IS.

Charlie

Good morning charlie, thanks for the come back, It was not the 10% that changed it back, but I do agree with the action taken, now every member may vote as it should be. If only 10% vote than so be it at least every member had the chanch to vote, to me thats better than the approx 1/6th of 1 % that attend the convention or approx 35-50 members electing the officers. You don't know how many will vote this year, maybe more than 10%.

You didn't answer my question about where to submit nominations!

Thanks
Jim

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, don't you think the very FIRST thing to do is get everyone paying the correct dues amount?

Yes or no?

Wray... :cool:

Yes and No. Yes it is important. No we do not need to spend the bulk of our time on this one issue. (don't stop here, please read further)

I have stated this over and over and for some reason people think it is a lot simpler that it is. We have been working (it is not like nothing has been done or attempted) on this for 8 years. I guess we could send out warrants and have a sheriffs office force someone to change or stop their allotment. (kinda does away with civil liberty's doesn't it?) Don't Know?

This is a very unique problem, dealing with the allotment system. The member who is not paying has no vote, nor can hold any office due to not being a member in good standing. Next step take away the Magazine. They should have a membership card, so they would still be able to use the other programs we have, as it is my guess one's membership is not questioned. (will look into this one) So here is the questions I see as needing answered:

1. Do we want to lose 1200 members in an organization that has trouble growing?
2. How do we deal with the funds?
3. How do we replace the 1200 members?
4. How do we replace the approx $21,000?

This is an important issue, and as National President we will continue to work on it. We will seek resolution. We will try to find the absolute best approach as a B O D, and then put that plan into action.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Good morning charlie, thanks for the come back, It was not the 10% that changed it back, but I do agree with the action taken, now every member may vote as it should be. If only 10% vote than so be it at least every member had the chanch to vote, to me thats better than the approx 1/6th of 1 % that attend the convention or approx 35-50 members electing the officers. You don't know how many will vote this year, maybe more than 10%.

You didn't answer my question about where to submit nominations!

Thanks
Jim

I read and voted against the very document you are reading. What makes you think I would know.

Nominations go to the National Office, Para 1 of res 4.

Told you it was the worse resolution I have ever seen.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Good morning charlie, thanks for the come back, It was not the 10% that changed it back
Jim

I am sure it was a lot less that any 10%. No one has ever really said how many people really complained. My guess less than 100.

C

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Long Range Planning Chair Linda Reed attempted do web type meetings at least 4 years ago. Far too progressive for us...so it failed and I have not seen her in a couple years.

You can only beat your head on the wall for so long before you invest your efforts elsewhere. I assure you that if I were not wed to this association through blood, I would have been LONG GONE years ago!!!

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

Kevin,

These are the very issues I want to address for our organization. We have the opportunity in front of us to become new and exciting!

Our efforts extend way past the elected. Finding the right team is paramount.

Committee Chairs and MEMBERS of the committees must be a good fit with the same goals in mind, and will all be part of the team, not just the 4 Officers and the 3 Regional Advisors.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

Copyright, 2008, Joe Jester

Since I am not a member and according to some not allowed an opinion on these matters, you are not authorized to use anything I stated here.

I guess I was not clear, and actually like the differing opinions we get. When I said "stay out of it" we were discussing possible disciplinary actions against an elected officer, an I do believe non members should not stray into that area. I would not write or call or email any organization I am not a member of and relate how they should deal with their discipline, and I would expect the same in return.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

Members not in good standing
I know your not in favor of returning dues, but you could do a bulk mailing of post cards thanking the member for their contribution to the CPOA reminding them the dues are now $24 and only members in good standing receive the magazine.

As far as the magazine goes, it could be printed to a pdf and places on the website (if you don't want to maintain an email list). Bulk rate mail must have a minimum of 200 pieces, so there is a lot of room for you to save.

Virtual committee meetings
I've been using netmeeting for years. These forums have a chat function where you can create seperate rooms and hold meetings. There are other technologies out there where you can hold video conferencing between a group of people ... hell, yahoo instant messenger comes to mind ... where you can do video, audio, and text. That technology became commonplace with Windows 95, over a decade ago.

For the price of travel, you could hold monthly virtual meetings for the Executive Board and committees via a commercial source, and still save money.

Forums ... on the CPOA website
This is another avenue where members in good standing can interface and discuss the good, bad, and ugly.

Copyright, 2008, Joe Jester

Since I am not a member and according to some not allowed an opinion on these matters, you are not authorized to use anything I stated here.

Members not in good standing
Your suggestion has been done. What new approach would you suggest?

Virtual Meetings, Forums, Saving moneyI have addressed these issues in other post. As an organization we have addressed virtual meetings already, but have only been met by the reluctance of the leadership to look into it. If elected, I will not only look into this media, I will implement it. Forums is a great idea for out website, and as stated before cut cost everywhere we can.

Charlie

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Charlie, your post sounds like McCain talking.. He has said he knows how to correct the financial mess we are in..if elected president. What he failed to do is tell us why he didn't do anything about it while he was a seated senator. I don't believe he can fixed the problem.. like wise, since the CPOA has had committees working on this, and they haven't fixed the problem as of yet, why should or would I believe you will fix it if elected? How many years has it been?????

Wray...as you're well aware, getting things done in DC takes a collaborative effort. One Senator or Congressmen can't do anything without the help/support of their fellow Senator/Congressmen. The CPOA is the same way. For us to be successful at the national level it will take a collaborative effort. One member can't do it alone...even if they are one of the National Officers. If there's resistance it won't happen. Everyone needs to help/support whoever is elected to each of the new positions. That's the ONLY way it's going to work and that's the ONLY way anything will get accomplished.


McCain in 08...Charlie in 09

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Members not in good standing
Your suggestion has been done. What new approach would you suggest?

I know of 3 people that are not paying the correct amount that still receive the Chief Magazine... I suspect they will get voting ballots in them as well..

Wray... :cool:

[CMC Isherwood]

In 2002, when we still did not have everyone paying the current dues. I asked the President and the ED, "why not just stop sending the magazine to those that are not paying $24". The answer was......."we can't do that, it would be mail fraud" or some other nonsense close to that.

My point was and remains, if we stop sending the magazine to those not paying $24, they will either contact National to a) up their dues b) cnx their membership or they will not contact National because a) they don't miss the 1960's style magazine b) after seeing the same ole magazine for the past 30 years they figure we could us the $18. I DO NOT see the down side of not mailing the magazine no matter which of the previous options the members choose.

Charlie, if you become CPOA President, you can count on my efforts.

CHARLIE FOR PRESIDENT 09'

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

[BMCM Deane Smith]

My point was and remains, if we stop sending the magazine to those not paying $24, they will either contact National to a) up their dues b) cnx their membership or they will not contact National because a) they don't miss the 1960's style magazine b) after seeing the same ole magazine for the past 30 years they figure we could us the $18. I DO NOT see the down side of not mailing the magazine no matter which of the previous options the members choose.

Charlie, if you become CPOA President, you can count on my efforts.




Kevin...I'm with you, stop sending the magazine. I would probably advertise what was going to happen in the magazine/website/wherever else prior to doing anything. I would give them a reasonable timeframe (maybe 6 months) to comply. If not, I'd stop sending it. If they just want the mag, they can pay for just that. Either way, they would have to get with national and settle up.

Charlie...I'm with Kevin. If you get elected President, you can count on me to help in any way possible. Please don't hesitate to ask.

Wray...why don't the 3 Chiefs that you know that aren't paying the correct amount step up and do the right thing?

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Joe Jester ...
Members not in good standing
I know your not in favor of returning dues, but you could do a bulk mailing of post cards thanking the member for their contribution to the CPOA reminding them the dues are now $24 and only members in good standing receive the magazine.

Charlie ...
Members not in good standing
Your suggestion has been done. What new approach would you suggest?

Charlie,

When did the CPOA stop sending the Chief's magazine to those members not in good standing?

I wouldn't give them any "grace period" as it's been how many years since the dues went up?

Anyone with rudimentary knowledge of mail merge can put together the post cards (I believe there are two to a sheet) for a mass mailing, everytime the Chief's magazine is published. Post Cards mailings should be less than 12 cents each, but check with the USPS website's postal manual for details. Expenses include: postcards, ink, Post Office charges, and time.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Charlie, I''ve followed the people that are ready to follow you, I'll jump on that bandwagon..... let me know what I can do.

[CMC Isherwood]

Joe,
If only it was as simple as what you suggest. I can hear it now, "mail merge?, we can't afford any fancy gadgets like that" And before ANY of you even begin to explain what "mail merge" is to me STOP! I am NOT the National President, ED nor any other Nationally elected seat holder.

With the electronic world tools of today, running the CPOA should take less than 4 hours a day!! I think the budget indicates that we have 2 people running the National Office. Hmmmmm...

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

I know of 3 people that are not paying the correct amount that still receive the Chief Magazine... I suspect they will get voting ballots in them as well..

Wray... :cool:

That is correct. They will. However when they are checked they will not be counted. This is why you have to put your member number on them. Not in good standing--No Vote.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, I''ve followed the people that are ready to follow you, I'll jump on that bandwagon..... let me know what I can do.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Will see what happens come election time.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie,

When did the CPOA stop sending the Chief's magazine to those members not in good standing?



I must have got excited or something and missed the magazine part. We haven't far as I know. We have done the mail notice thing in the past.

Charlie

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

In 2002, when we still did not have everyone paying the current dues. I asked the President and the ED, "why not just stop sending the magazine to those that are not paying $24". The answer was......."we can't do that, it would be mail fraud" or some other nonsense close to that.

CHARLIE FOR PRESIDENT 09'

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

I wonder how they came up with mail fraud?

Joe,
I think the budget indicates that we have 2 people running the National Office. Hmmmmm...

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

Kevin, who else other than Tom works in the office? Do we hire from a temp agency?

[BMCM Deane Smith]

who else other than Tom works in the office? Do we hire from a temp agency?

Bruce...I was wondering the same thing. I thought I was told that he did use temps from time to time to help with general office stuff, but I might wrong about that. There is a line item on the budget for Salary ($69,000+) and another for wages ($28,000+). I thought maybe the wages line item was to use for temps. If so, that number should be able to be reduced if we can just be more effecient.

Hopefully someone can clarify this.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, if you become CPOA President, you can count on my efforts.


Charlie.... If you get elected President, you can count on me to help in any way possible. Please don't hesitate to ask.

Charlie, I''ve followed the people that are ready to follow you, I'll jump on that bandwagon..... let me know what I can do.

Greetings Everyone,

This is a huge start in the right direction. I wish I could type out the total outcome of a 3 year term, but no one can do that so I will not try either. And of course I cannot predict the outcome of the election.

If elected we may only scratch the surface, (although the goals will go a lot deeper) but getting things headed in the right direction is paramount, if we are going to continue to serve our membership and fulfill our purpose.

"Please don't hesitate to ask" "You can count on me" "let me know what I can do" We need more folks making these kind of comments. First what can we do? We need to elect a team who are on the same page. Who think alike in many ways. That is why I wish the other candidates of all offices would engage in these discussions. From what I have seen so far, I think the few who have posted here want a positive change of direction for CPOA and are willing to do whatever it takes to get us there. It does no good to have a President with one vision and a VP with another and a Treas with a third, etc etc. We need to find the common thread. Notice I said vision, this does not mean ideas. It is not my-way or the hi-way Varying ideas properly worked will go a long way in making the vision reality.

I do not know if I am the leader for this endeavor, but I am willing to step up and do what is necessary to see it through. We need a team who will not let personal differences hinder the progress needed in our organization.

Secondly, Get the word out concerning this election. This may be the most important election this association has ever had. I believe there are some fences that need mending, I believe there are some new ideas that must be expored and I believe we must catch up with today's Guardians and their technology. Campaign, Campaign, Campaign! Hit your email bang list with copy of the resumes of the candidates you support. Tell your friends about this thread. As this paragraph started GET THE WORD OUT. We need record numbers of ballots returned.

The three quoted statements above are very encouraging. Whether it is myself or someone else, lets elect positive change for our organization.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Bruce...I was wondering the same thing. I thought I was told that he did use temps from time to time to help with general office stuff, but I might wrong about that. There is a line item on the budget for Salary ($69,000+) and another for wages ($28,000+). I thought maybe the wages line item was to use for temps. If so, that number should be able to be reduced if we can just be more effecient.

Hopefully someone can clarify this.

We have a part time Secretary in the office.

Charlie

[CMC Isherwood]

Deane,
I thought I saw some line items regarding retirement account and med benifits too......

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

"Mail Fraud" for not sending out a magazine to a CPOA member? Sounds to me like someone wanted to play sea lawyer.... However, it may be.... if you did not send it to those that pay ONLY for the magazine subscription.

I still think the expense of a building for one full time person and one part time person is way out of line. I'd say sell the building, and rent an office space... much cheaper...

I think the budget needs to be reviewed with a fine tooth comb.

Wray.. :cool:

P.S. "Mail fraud refers to any scheme which attempts to unlawfully obtain money or valuables in which the postal system is used at any point in the commission of a criminal offense."

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

We have a part time Secretary in the office.

Charlie

Well if she is the regular part time secretary then maybe we need to look for another one. Anytime that I ever called the office and Tom wasn't there she couldn't do anything to help other than take a message for Tom. I just assumed that she was a temp. Guess it's just another example of superior spending of the association's and our money.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

[QUOTE=CMC Bruce Bradley;33828]Well if she is the regular part time secretary then maybe we need to look for another one. Anytime that I ever called the office and Tom wasn't there she couldn't do anything to help other than take a message for Tom. I just assumed that she was a temp. Guess it's just another example of superior spending of the association's and our money.[/QUOT


To all
In that no one answered the question, the office has a secretary, she is the wife of the current VP Myles Shaw. She is a very smart person who I met the last time I was there but she can only do what she is allowed to do.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

To Bruce, Deane , Kevin & others

At this years convention did none of you look at the budget? Did any of you vote to approve the budget? There is much in there about not only salaries & wages, but FICA , retirement accounts, etc. Did you notice that ED local travel has increased from &250.00 in 2002 to &2,000 this year?

Jim

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

I still think the expense of a building for one full time person and one part time person is way out of line. I'd say sell the building, and rent an office space... much cheaper...



Wray, You have brought up several times our building expenses. Just exactly what are you looking at?

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

To Bruce, Deane , Kevin & others

At this years convention did none of you look at the budget? Did any of you vote to approve the budget? There is much in there about not only salaries & wages, but FICA , retirement accounts, etc. Did you notice that ED local travel has increased from &250.00 in 2002 to &2,000 this year?

Jim

Was $1200 for 07 and $1500 for 08 with actual expense from 1 Jan to convention being $875. I am not absolutely sure of everything we reimburse, however I do know every thing he does, every meeting he goes to, etc, is with his own vehicle. At the price of fuel increase alone from 02-08 that would be significant. I also do not know what he was being reimbursed for in 02.

Charlie

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

To Bruce, Deane , Kevin & others

At this years convention did none of you look at the budget? Did any of you vote to approve the budget? There is much in there about not only salaries & wages, but FICA , retirement accounts, etc. Did you notice that ED local travel has increased from &250.00 in 2002 to &2,000 this year?

Jim

Why wouldn't there be information about Salaries, Wages, FICA, Retirement Acct.? We don't get full and or part time employee's for free.

The Ops Man lay's our his compensation.

Charlie

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

To all
In that no one answered the question, the office has a secretary, she is the wife of the current VP Myles Shaw. She is a very smart person who I met the last time I was there but she can only do what she is allowed to do.

Jim

Well maybe that might explain why your VP quit and then came back.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Why wouldn't there be information about Salaries, Wages, FICA, Retirement Acct.? We don't get full and or part time employee's for free.

The Ops Man lay's our his compensation.

Charlie

Charlie, Don't go on the offence, I was mearly pointing out that all info being ask about was in the budget, thats where I found it. What did you think I was doing?

Jim

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim,
I must be missing something here. Just reading what you wrote, "Section V of the bylaws state that a "QUORUM" shall consist of a majority of accredited delegates registered as attending." It seems clear to me. A quorum consists of the majority of those accredited delegates registered as attending. So...if ten chapters send accredited delegates (Primary, Alternate, or Proxy) and each registers as attending the convention, 6 accredited registered delegates would make a convention quorum.

Again, I must be missing something here....

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, Don't go on the offence, I was mearly pointing out that all info being ask about was in the budget, thats where I found it. What did you think I was doing?

Jim

Apology for misunderstanding. The way I read it, it appears you are questioning those items.

I have not been happy with the way the budget has been run for sometime now. The way the leadership is doing it by the time we get to convention it is nothing more than do we operate or not.

Three of four years ago it was recommended and passed we get the budget in 3 collums, last years budget numbers, actual amount expended, and this years request. Jon has never presented it that way and every year we have to ask for the numbers. This year I noticed the income numbers discussed in previous post and brought that to the floor, but because we could not get into the National Office computer, we could not get the right information.

As I have stated; If elected we will have an accurate budget, that will be used and worked from.

Charlie

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim,
I must be missing something here. Just reading what you wrote, "Section V of the bylaws state that a "QUORUM" shall consist of a majority of accredited delegates registered as attending." It seems clear to me. A quorum consists of the majority of those accredited delegates registered as attending. So...if ten chapters send accredited delegates (Primary, Alternate, or Proxy) and each registers as attending the convention, 6 accredited registered delegates would make a convention quorum.

Again, I must be missing something here....

Kevin Isherwood

GLM

Kevin, I do believe you are missing something.
Bylaws Section II 2a. The convention delegation shall be the "governing body" of the association during the annual convention to "consist" of "one accredited delegate" of each "Chapter" of the chief petty officers association.
So this is stating that there shall be 49 accredited delegates. Section V says that a majority of those 49 accredited delegates must be registered as attending.

DC code 29-301.21 BOD quorum: A "Majority" of the number of directors fixed by the bylaws. The CPOA bylaws "Fix" that number at 49. But in no event shall a "Quorum consist of less than one-third of the number of directors so fix.

Now you can say and I'm sure Charlie will say that the convention delegates are not the BOD but you and I both know that is the role they are playing during the convention. The intent of the law is clear, There must be a fair representation of the group that is meeting. Your analogy of six out of ten is not a fair representation of 49 chapters!!

I offered to pay for a legal opinion on this subject if the decision would be respected, Charlie refused. The associations lawyer stated that two BOD's was "untenable" so again the CPOA just changed the name of one, come on KEVIN, you can't agree with that BS.

I await your response.
Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Was $1200 for 07 and $1500 for 08 with actual expense from 1 Jan to convention being $875. I am not absolutely sure of everything we reimburse, however I do know every thing he does, every meeting he goes to, etc, is with his own vehicle. At the price of fuel increase alone from 02-08 that would be significant. I also do not know what he was being reimbursed for in 02.

Charlie

Charlie, May I suggest that you don't have a clue as to what the ED does, you say "HOWEVER I DO KNOW EVERYTHING HE DOES" In a previous post you stated that he worked seven days a week and when called on he had to be ready at a moments notice to go to capitol hill to testify. That was BS as he has never even once been up there. How many times have you even been to the CPOA office, maybe four or five while you were VP. You say you "Know every meeting he goes to" please share that with us.

Jim

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm200/intro.htm

That link is the introduction to mailing for organizations. You will be thinking, damm, I should have paid more attention to the Commandant's Instruction titled Postal Manual, when you peruse those pages.

Today, I found out there were significant returns from a newletter that I produced last month. The solution for significant returns is "Correction service Requested". Now, that price is $0.50 per service, according to my postmaster. Significant was never defined, and being third class mail, the newsletters where round filed.

Those who do not wish to go the "PSC(ret)" route, can use the Correction Service offered by the post office. I would check to ensure the magazine service is the same price as the letter service.

Now, not being a member of the CPOA, you can use this information to assist you in your quest to get everyone's proper mailing address.

And those who wish to ignore it, have a good Coast Guard day.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm200/intro.htm

That link is the introduction to mailing for organizations. You will be thinking, damm, I should have paid more attention to the Commandant's Instruction titled Postal Manual, when you peruse those pages.

Today, I found out there were significant returns from a newletter that I produced last month. The solution for significant returns is "Correction service Requested". Now, that price is $0.50 per service, according to my postmaster. Significant was never defined, and being third class mail, the newsletters where round filed.

Those who do not wish to go the "PSC(ret)" route, can use the Correction Service offered by the post office. I would check to ensure the magazine service is the same price as the letter service.

Now, not being a member of the CPOA, you can use this information to assist you in your quest to get everyone's proper mailing address.

And those who wish to ignore it, have a good Coast Guard day.

Joe great info. And even if it does cost a little more for the service for a magazine it has to be cheaper in the long run than to keep paying the postage for magazines to hit the dead letter bin or be returned as undeliverable.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, May I suggest that you don't have a clue as to what the ED does, you say "HOWEVER I DO KNOW EVERYTHING HE DOES" In a previous post you stated that he worked seven days a week and when called on he had to be ready at a moments notice to go to capitol hill to testify. That was BS as he has never even once been up there. How many times have you even been to the CPOA office, maybe four or five while you were VP. You say you "Know every meeting he goes to" please share that with us.

Jim

Would you quit taking things completely out of context! I said in "every thing he does, every meeting he goes to, etc, is with his own vehicle". Talking about travel.

Have a nice day!

Charlie

[CMC Isherwood]

Jim,
I am unwilling to get into a long drawn out back and forth debate about this. "IF" the CPOA waited for a majority of the 49 Chapters to send an accredited delegate to the convention, even less would get done. If ten chapters send an accredited delegate, those are the ten chapters that will decide the fate of the organization.

I have read more than 100 posts on this thread alone, when all is said and done, I disagree with your position and I look forward to Charlie as President.

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Would you quit taking things completely out of context! I said in "every thing he does, every meeting he goes to, etc, is with his own vehicle". Talking about travel.

Have a nice day!

Charlie

Charlie, How can it be out of "Context, I mearly quoted you.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim,
I am unwilling to get into a long drawn out back and forth debate about this. "IF" the CPOA waited for a majority of the 49 Chapters to send an accredited delegate to the convention, even less would get done. If ten chapters send an accredited delegate, those are the ten chapters that will decide the fate of the organization.

I have read more than 100 posts on this thread alone, when all is said and done, I disagree with your position and I look forward to Charlie as President.

Kevin Isherwood
GLM

Thanks Kevin, You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with the law. oh, and by the way there was a quorum present at this years convention, if you read the minutes there were 25 chapters represented at the convention, however on two occasions the meeting had 22 one day and 23 on another. Not a "Quorum". What you & charlie are saying is whoever shows up is your quorum, that not only defy's common sense but also the Law.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Kevin, One final question.

You, charlie, Jon & others have made it clear that you are in favor of breaking the law (DC code) The Coast Guard operates under the U.S. Code so I assume that you think that its OK for he Coast Guard to break those laws. We are a nation of law, Maybe this is a generational thing, and in your generation there is little accountibility, decipline and you've made it clear that you have no respect for the law. Are there any laws that you would not break?

Jim

[GMC Mark Cortor]

Kevin, One final question.

You, charlie, Jon & others have made it clear that you are in favor of breaking the law (DC code) The Coast Guard operates under the U.S. Code so I assume that you think that its OK for he Coast Guard to break those laws. We are a nation of law, Maybe this is a generational thing, and in your generation there is little accountibility, decipline and you've made it clear that you have no respect for the law. Are there any laws that you would not break?

Jim

And everyone keeps on wondering why the active duty Chief won't get involved on these threads, this is exactly why.

Master Chief Bridges,
With all do respect, you are way off track here! To even put Charlie, Kevin and Jon in the same group shows just how little you truly know about what is going on with our association. Show me your law degree and then maybe. As I have stated before the law is written by lawyers and lawyer love loop holes. Each of us reads and understands the law, but we all may differ on what we believe the intent of the law is, with that said, I do think Charlie and Kevin are trying to follow the law, but to use the law in a matter to which it may benefit our association, which corperation do everyday. In my current position in the Coast Guard, I deal with laws and believe me none of them are so black and white. The grey is the spirit of the law, which allows the American people the power to read, understand and challege the law every day. That is why a cop on the street doesn't have to written you that speeding ticket everytime; without the grey, the cop would be require to write it regardless. I personally never want to live anywhere that law is so black and white.

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

The grey is the spirit of the law, which allows the American people the power to read, understand and challege the law every day. That is why a cop on the street doesn't have to written you that speeding ticket everytime; without the grey, the cop would be require to write it regardless. I personally never want to live anywhere that law is so black and white.

Mark, to counterpoint your points....the law is very black and white, it's when we start applying it and interperting it to meet thousands of different situations that the shades of grey come into play. As the old saying goes, if you don;t like the opinion of one lawyer, just call a different one.

The "colors" of the law made for very interesting and heated discussions in more than one of my college classes....Masters Degree in Judicial Administration from the University of Oregon in 2001.

[GMC Mark Cortor]

Master Bradley,
I agree, I just didn't spell it out as well, hopefully everyone understood my meaning, but I'm sure someone will twist my words even further and counter my statements. My greater point, was that is why most of us active duty Chief feel no need to waste our valuable time responding to such agruements, we are trying to fix the problem, not point finger and make accusations. I have read hundreds of these thread and very little has to do with how to fix the problem, they seem to be more about pointing fingers and countering any real solution. This thread should be about how to move forward, not kick a dead horse or word games.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Master Bradley,
I agree, I just didn't spell it out as well, hopefully everyone understood my meaning, but I'm sure someone will twist my words even further and counter my statements. My greater point, was that is why most of us active duty Chief feel no need to waste our valuable time responding to such agruements, we are trying to fix the problem, not point finger and make accusations. I have read hundreds of these thread and very little has to do with how to fix the problem, they seem to be more about pointing fingers and countering any real solution. This thread should be about how to move forward, not kick a dead horse or word games.

Mark, I put them all in the same group because they all treat the law the same. They are all saying to hell with the law, we'll run the CPOA any damn way we want. In all my post I have merely pointed out the "LAW". You say you are trying to fix problems, so am I. Fixing the problem is easy, just obey the law, what is so hard about that? If you want to fix something here's one for just you, The CPOA lawyer said there cannot be two BOD's, he sent Shipp a letter stating that, the CPOA still has two, they just changed the name of one to "Convention Delegates" and as I said before thats stupid. It appears you would rather jump on me than address the issues.

Jim

[CMC Bruce Bradley]

Master Bradley,
I agree, I just didn't spell it out as well, hopefully everyone understood my meaning, but I'm sure someone will twist my words even further and counter my statements. My greater point, was that is why most of us active duty Chief feel no need to waste our valuable time responding to such agruements, we are trying to fix the problem, not point finger and make accusations. I have read hundreds of these thread and very little has to do with how to fix the problem, they seem to be more about pointing fingers and countering any real solution. This thread should be about how to move forward, not kick a dead horse or word games.

Mark, it's all this back and forth and bitchin over whether we comply with this code or that law that keeps making me bring back up the KISS theory. When we have gotten to a point that there is this much passion on multiple sides over if we comply with this or that issue that the "average' Chiefs gets turned off by it all. Why would anyone want to belong to an association that they can't understand how it does business or what it does at the upper administrative levels?

Yes I imagine that if I had no other job and I could did into the quagmire of laws and codes and by-laws and manuals that we have created that I might be able to figure it out in a few weeks to be able to suggest some pathways to the light. But why would a new member want to do that? Should they just trust the time tested older souls on what's good and what works, hell no. I'm sorry but the association has become its own worst enemy with all of the changes over the past several years. And trying to change it all to being controlled by the few that attend the gathering and are thus anointed as knowing isn't winning in the membership race either.

"In respect for those who have gone before us and as a guide for those who follow'. I guess we didn't think very much of the past if we have to reinvent the present.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Charlie, How can it be out of "Context, I mearly quoted you.

Jim

You did not quote the entire sentence, only part of it, that is how.

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

How about a thread for anyone who is running to get their platform out there and discuss their vision. And please keep the on going legal debate over at The Great Debate thread (to name just one of them).

The above is the very first post of this thread. (Jim please read) We wanted this thread for the candidates to be able to introduce themselves, present their vision for the future, and answer questions. Note I said answer questions not debate nor argue. (although a little debate is good for the soul)

Jim, you have once again brought your law argument to this thread. It is evident you will not agree nor even ponder the possibility that another procedure may indeed suit the law. You went to the Roberts site and they told you the same thing I have been telling you but you didn't accept that either. You have not and will not accept any opinion other than your own so why do you even ask the questions.

As for my platform, if elected, CPOA will operate within the law, rest assured. Debate Closed. Further law arguments should be kept in the Great Debate thread.

Charlie

[BMCM Wray Gillette (Ret)]

Ok guys, it looks like this is turning into a pissing match. Time to re-group, and work as a team.

I have not chimmed in, mainly because I am not that familiar with the bylaws, DC Code, or even Roberts.

In my opinion, Jim and Charlie will never get together with their opinions... Kevin appears to have given up. I don't know enough to get involved, and Joe has provided some very good information.

I think it should be quite apparent there are problems here. Perhaps some that can not be worked out by members. After all, as an organization I'm, sure we all can agree that the rules & law need to be followed. ( We can not operate in the "gray" areas....) We need to be 100% in compliance. I would like to think we all could agree on that as well. I would also like to think, once in compliance, things would be very easy to follow.

So.... with that said, what is the best way to settle this without everyone getting pissed off, or pissed on. Is a lawyer in order? Perhaps so... he/she would certainly be an independent party. He/she would also be looking out for the interest of the organization & it's members. Do you have a better idea? Please share it with us...

Does this not make sense to anyone, or do you think I am out in left field...? Ready for incoming....

Wray... :cool:

[ETC Pat Kaschube]

Mark, it's all this back and forth and bitchin over whether we comply with this code or that law that keeps making me bring back up the KISS theory. When we have gotten to a point that there is this much passion on multiple sides over if we comply with this or that issue that the "average' Chiefs gets turned off by it all. Why would anyone want to belong to an association that they can't understand how it does business or what it does at the upper administrative levels?



Hmmm sounds a bit like the attitude of the average American voter as well.
:cool:
Sorry for the quick detour.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

You did not quote the entire sentence, only part of it, that is how.

Sorry Charlie if thats not what you meant you could have just said that he uses his own car for CPOA business, not "I know everything he does & I know every meeting he attends".

Jim

[GMC Mark Cortor]

So.... with that said, what is the best way to settle this without everyone getting pissed off, or pissed on. Is a lawyer in order? Perhaps so... he/she would certainly be an independent party. He/she would also be looking out for the interest of the organization & it's members. Do you have a better idea? Please share it with us...


Minus my grey area statement, that is where I was trying to drive this. I was trying to make the point that the law can and is difficult for most due to the fact many of us have extremely busy jobs and don't have the time needed to fix a problem solely. Unless one of our members is already a laywer (who would like to volunteer his/her time), I believe that we need to employ one. Some want to say how clear and straight forward the law is, but if that was the case there wouldn't be debate.

As I stated much earlier on this thread, get back to the basics, use KISS thoery and ensure our By-laws are truly BY LAW. My vote for each national office will be for those who I believe want and will follow through on doing this. A lawyer may cost lots, but if done right will greatly benefit our association and finally put to rest this same old agruement that has been around our association long before I was a Chief and if I look back or I'm sure someone could enlighten me to when this all first really started, it was most likely long before I even joined our beloved Coast Guard, which make this Chief wonder why to fight it and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

With that said, I have never ran from a challenge in my life and don't plan on starting now. The only way I know is to get more involved, understand that I'm wrong at times and move forward with the best course of action possible with the resources available to me. Use the past and present as a guide to a future, for most history shows that it will repeat itself, but hopefully we learn from our mistakes and don't allow the cycle continue.

The CPOA lawyer said there cannot be two BOD's, he sent Shipp a letter stating that, the CPOA still has two, they just changed the name of one to "Convention Delegates" and as I said before thats stupid.

Ok, keeping with the spirit of this thread, here are some question I have before I try to answer your request of how I would fix this:
1- Was this lawyer paided by the CPOA?
2- Does the law clearly prohibit a BOD and Convention Delegates?
3- If so, then how do other associations do it legally?
4- What was the lawyers response to the CPOA change?
5- Stupid maybe, but law breaking?
6- Why wouldn't an outside body (DOJ) then intervein?

I ask these questions, not to doubt you, but would assist me in making an educated response, so to try not to get twisted by others when I do respond. I know many of those who follow this thread may not be as imformed as others and I've heard many rumors, but it would be nice to see more facts, not opinion. For us that are fairly new to the CPOA and these threads, it seems like it's a continuous game of who to trust and we hear many accusations, but I want to see documentation and facts, not opinion to better inform myself and others.

Another question, to save me a little time, what is the DC code #(s), so that I can read it in my limited spare time? I want to make myself the most informed member running for office.

Found this during a search of DC code, maybe something we should look at, but those who have been doing this for many years may have already tried, but I would suggested:

http://achieveguidance.com/?_kk=non%20profits%20fundraising&_kt=109f5bf0-97af-488e-8753-24855ca05f66&gclid=CJ3jy8-rupYCFQv7agodhR2aLw

or maybe this:

http://brc.dc.gov/nonprofit/nonprofit.asp

Wow, I read some really good stuff there!

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Minus my grey area statement, that is where I was trying to drive this. I was trying to make the point that the law can and is difficult for most due to the fact many of us have extremely busy jobs and don't have the time needed to fix a problem solely. Unless one of our members is already a laywer (who would like to volunteer his/her time), I believe that we need to employ one. Some want to say how clear and straight forward the law is, but if that was the case there wouldn't be debate.

As I stated much earlier on this thread, get back to the basics, use KISS thoery and ensure our By-laws are truly BY LAW. My vote for each national office will be for those who I believe want and will follow through on doing this. A lawyer may cost lots, but if done right will greatly benefit our association and finally put to rest this same old agruement that has been around our association long before I was a Chief and if I look back or I'm sure someone could enlighten me to when this all first really started, it was most likely long before I even joined our beloved Coast Guard, which make this Chief wonder why to fight it and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

With that said, I have never ran from a challenge in my life and don't plan on starting now. The only way I know is to get more involved, understand that I'm wrong at times and move forward with the best course of action possible with the resources available to me. Use the past and present as a guide to a future, for most history shows that it will repeat itself, but hopefully we learn from our mistakes and don't allow the cycle continue.



Ok, keeping with the spirit of this thread, here are some question I have before I try to answer your request of how I would fix this:
1- Was this lawyer paided by the CPOA?
2- Does the law clearly prohibit a BOD and Convention Delegates?
3- If so, then how do other associations do it legally?
4- What was the lawyers response to the CPOA change?
5- Stupid maybe, but law breaking?
6- Why wouldn't an outside body (DOJ) then intervein?

I ask these questions, not to doubt you, but would assist me in making an educated response, so to try not to get twisted by others when I do respond. I know many of those who follow this thread may not be as imformed as others and I've heard many rumors, but it would be nice to see more facts, not opinion. For us that are fairly new to the CPOA and these threads, it seems like it's a continuous game of who to trust and we hear many accusations, but I want to see documentation and facts, not opinion to better inform myself and others.

Another question, to save me a little time, what is the DC code #(s), so that I can read it in my limited spare time? I want to make myself the most informed member running for office.

Found this during a search of DC code, maybe something we should look at, but those who have been doing this for many years may have already tried, but I would suggested:

http://achieveguidance.com/?_kk=non%20profits%20fundraising&_kt=109f5bf0-97af-488e-8753-24855ca05f66&gclid=CJ3jy8-rupYCFQv7agodhR2aLw

or maybe this:

http://brc.dc.gov/nonprofit/nonprofit.asp

Wow, I read some really good stuff there!

Hi Mark, In resent years I know of three topics that the lawyer was ask to give a "Legal" opinion on. 1. A members quorum, 2. Executive Committee & 3. Two Board of Directors. All opinions were given in a written response to the national office. As a member you are entitled to copies of these documents, call the national office and ask the ED to send you a copy of the question & the lawyers response.

The lawyer is Edward LIPPERT, he is paid by the CPOA. He has been the CPOA lawyer for as long as I can remember and has practiced corporate law in Washington, DC for many year.

I will address the one on members Quorum in my next post, I don't ask that you take my word on any of this, get the letters!!!

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

When the bylaws were rewritten it changed from BOD approve to membership approve all resolutions and bylaws changes. This change should never have been written in, it made it impossible to legally make changes to the bylaws without mailing the proposed resolutions out to all members for their vote.

The law states;
29-301.17. Quorum.
(a) the bylaws may provide the number or percentage of members entitled to vote represented in person or by proxy, or the number or percentage of votes represented in person or by proxy, which shall constitute a quorum at a meeting of members. In the absense of any such provisions, members having at least one-tenth of the votes entitled to be cast represented in person or by proxy shall constitute a quorum. This is the law.

The lawyer was ask for his opinion, He answered that the bylaws did not specify a members quorum so therefore the law requires that one- tenth of the members entitled to vote would have to be present to "TRANSACT LEGAL BUSINESS". With over 9,000 members the CPOA would have to have over 900 members present or Proxies at the convention. All the lawyer can do is cite the law.

The letter has been ignored and a new BOD elected with only 37 members vote. Because the law was not followed it makes this vote illegal and it should be declared null & void.

Jim

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Mark

In answer to questions 2,3 &4 above.
2.Does the law clearly prohibit a BOD & convention Delegates? Answer; No, The law 29-301.18 The affairs of a corporation shall be managed by "A" Board of directors.

3. If so, then how do other associations do it legally? Answer: Conventions are held for various reasons, like the two resent political convention, they had convention delegates, but the delegates were not their BOD and it was not their annual business meeting as is the case with the CPOA.

4. What was the lawyers response to the CPOA change? Answer: He sent Shipp a letter stating that having two BOD's Was "Untenable". His letter was sent after the fact that two BOD's had already been voted in at the convention. Definition "Untenable" Not able to be defended, Not able to be occupied. Shipp then decided that the new BOD would be the one to stay with, as they were "Elected by the membership" He's talking about the 37 members at the convention as the reps of all members.

The associations BOD is elected by chapter's, Chapter presidents are the BOD. They serve for what ever term their chapter decides. At the convention these chapter presidents or their authorized representative are still the Board of Directors. There must be a quorum of them before legal business can be conducted, the law 29-301.21 BOD--Quorum Says that in no event shall a quorum consist of less than one-third of the directors so fixed. Section II of the bylaws sets that number at 49, one for each chapter.

I look forward to your thoughts

Jim

[BMCS Charlie Womack (Ret)]

Mark

In answer to questions 2,3 &4 above.
2.Does the law clearly prohibit a BOD & convention Delegates? Answer; No, The law 29-301.18 The affairs of a corporation shall be managed by "A" Board of directors.

3. If so, then how do other associations do it legally? Answer: Conventions are held for various reasons, like the two resent political convention, they had convention delegates, but the delegates were not their BOD and it was not their annual business meeting as is the case with the CPOA.

4. What was the lawyers response to the CPOA change? Answer: He sent Shipp a letter stating that having two BOD's Was "Untenable". His letter was sent after the fact that two BOD's had already been voted in at the convention. Definition "Untenable&quo