CSC -vs- CMC

[BMCM Deane Smith]

I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would see what everyones thoughts are. I seem to recall someone (probably Brett) saying that one of the possible billet changes with the 1.25% for E-9 is that some of the Sector CSC billets would be converted to CMC billets. I thought this was a good idea, I think that all Sector billets should be CMC's. This is just what makes sense to me. I guess I just feel that this program should be run by Master Chiefs.

What do you think? Should we have some Sectors with CSC's and some with CMC's or should they all be CMC's? Does it matter? Does anyone care? What do you CMC's think?

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

I think that the smaller Sectors are served well by CSCs. The larger Sectors might be better served by having a CMC. Really its the individual that's going to make the difference, but sometimes that second star gives the person the initial upper hand if a situation develops.
I also like that the people that want to go down that career path could start at E-8 instead of having to wait to make 9.

[DCCS Todd Holcomb]

I agree with Master Chief Slesh, I have never had the opprotunity to be a badge of any sort but may want to go that path someday and it would be nice to have a few options at this paygrade.

Todd

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

I think that the smaller Sectors are served well by CSCs. The larger Sectors might be better served by having a CMC. Really its the individual that's going to make the difference, but sometimes that second star gives the person the initial upper hand if a situation develops.
I also like that the people that want to go down that career path could start at E-8 instead of having to wait to make 9.

Not being familar with what sectors are (old guard) I assume that they about the same as districts. During my time in the 80's there were 18 CEA billets at districts & HQ units. Only one was filled by a senior chief, that was at training center governor's island. His name was Gary McElroy (a air-dale) and he was every bit as effective as anyone, I truely believe he would have done the job regardless of the unit size because of what he brought to the job, and yes, there were e-9's at the training center. It was the position that gave him the upper hand and he used it wisely.

Jim

[BMCS Burt Ford]

I dont think it is an issue. I think if the sector has mostly Chiefs as OINC and supervisors, a CSC is fine. A sector like Sec Lower where you have several BMCM's a CMC might be better.

If a BMCM or BMCS can run the same WLR or CPB, then the CSC/CMC at the sector should not be an issue. It is a position that can be filled, IMO, by the best qualified.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

When TRACEN NY lost it's "CEA" billet, the leading MCPO took over as Command Master Chief. That was Bob Bamberger.

I use to tease the hell out of Gary.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

When TRACEN NY lost it's "CEA" billet, the leading MCPO took over as Command Master Chief. That was Bob Bamberger.

I use to tease the hell out of Gary.

Good morning Joe

We all use to give gary hell, but he could give it right back. He is a guy you just enjoyed being around. He and Bernice are now living in Washington state.

Jim

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Burt, look at the locations of those WPBs. From where I saw it, the more isolated units had the BMCMs and the units closer to a larger base got the BMCSs...... I know , there are exceptions.......
With LMR, we have a CSC and all but one of the OINCs is a BMCM. If you had the right person in the job, it wouldn't matter........ but what job are you talking about? The success of that position depends on who the Command is at the Sector as well. If the Command tends to side with the OinCs based more on their rank than whether or not they're right.......... if you had an E-9 on both sides of the arguement, the Command might actually have to look at the issue.

Jim, the Sectors are closer to being the size of the old groups. Then they vary greatly depending on where they are. Some Sectors are limited to the types of units the have,...Sector Lower Mississippi River has only WLRs, an ANT, and what used to be the M field, with the support units to service them, ........Sector San Juan has the Station, it's detachments, the ANT, a bunch of WPBs, the Airstation, the M side, and all of the supporting units...... A place like Sector New York has everything the Coast Guard offers and spans several states.

[MKCM Brett Ayer]

When the Sector CMC/CSC program was implemented, there were a couple of sectors that originally wanted CMCs that were downgraded to CSCs.

Now that the cap has been raised, there is the option of upgrading the positions. It does not mean they will, only that if they can find the money they can ask, and the cap will not be the barrier anymore.

They may have found that a CSC is working out quite well and they don’t need or want a CMC.

The point being that even though the cap is no longer the acute issue it was, all other factors are still in play. Money, force structure, etc...

It will be up to the unit to request a reprogramming, and those are reviewed twice a year.

Be Safe.

Brett

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

Stuart,

Last I heard, LMR also was ADCON for Lorsta Boise City. D2 was ADCON before it became extinct. UMR was ADCON for Lorsta's Dana IN and Baudette MN. When they became sectors, I assume they remained ADCON.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Burt, look at the locations of those WPBs. From where I saw it, the more isolated units had the BMCMs and the units closer to a larger base got the BMCSs...... I know , there are exceptions.......
With LMR, we have a CSC and all but one of the OINCs is a BMCM. If you had the right person in the job, it wouldn't matter........ but what job are you talking about? The success of that position depends on who the Command is at the Sector as well. If the Command tends to side with the OinCs based more on their rank than whether or not they're right.......... if you had an E-9 on both sides of the arguement, the Command might actually have to look at the issue.

Jim, the Sectors are closer to being the size of the old groups. Then they vary greatly depending on where they are. Some Sectors are limited to the types of units the have,...Sector Lower Mississippi River has only WLRs, an ANT, and what used to be the M field, with the support units to service them, ........Sector San Juan has the Station, it's detachments, the ANT, a bunch of WPBs, the Airstation, the M side, and all of the supporting units...... A place like Sector New York has everything the Coast Guard offers and spans several states.

Thanks Stuart

I've always felt that who ever filled those positions should be the senior person within that district, group, etc. much like the chief of the boat (COB) and if there was a senior person that didn;t want the responsibility, I wanted to see their retirement request. I never saw it as a option.

Jim

[BMCS Burt Ford]

Stu I am talking about any boat that has an E9 or E8 as OINC. I dont think there is a CPB or WLR/WLIC that a BMCS or BMCM could not command. I would have no problem relieving you as an 8 and I know you could relieve me as a 9. Any 87 with an 8 could be relieved by a 9 and vice versa. Of course the AO would have to decide but I think the jobs can be done by either. I see CSC/CMC jobs the same way.

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

I think it really depends much more on the person than the rank. The missions conducted in the sector would determine the experience that the prospective CMC/CSC would need to best understand the issues that may arise so he can have the most positive input for the sector commander. There are probably very few sector commanders that have an in depth understanding of WLI, WLIC or WPB operations. Sure, they know what they do and have an idea of what it entails, but having not "been there, done that", the really don't have the full perspective. A CMC/CSC that does have some of that perspective could prove very valuable. This is not to say that one should have been in command of one of them. Just served would be nice. An MK or DC that has that perspective could do just as well as a BM. At least they can talk the same language.

[BMCM Deane Smith]

Jim...I agree with your points and feel the same way. I agree about the individual making the difference and not the grade. Also, the program is only going to be as good as those people who are applying for it.

[ETC Joe Jester ret]

If a CSC/CMC doesn't grasp the mission, it would be time for them to pack their bags, visit, and become informed.

BTDT will only work when the OIC can't or won't explain to those who hadn't BTDT.

How much mission specific intimate knowledge does a CSC/CMC need to be effective? If mission specific intimate knowledge were a requirement, then no CSC/CMC could serve some missions ... for they would argue from the point of ignorance.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim...I agree with your points and feel the same way. I agree about the individual making the difference and not the grade. Also, the program is only going to be as good as those people who are applying for it.

Thanks Deane

I'm still a little confused as to who does the selecting, mission statement,etc. It sounds much different then in my days as a cea.

Jim

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Joe,
Let me put it this way... I am of the opinion that it would be good for the PACAREA CMC to have done a tour on a "White Needle of Death". That way they have a fairly complete understanding of what the folks go through in the course of a patrol. If they haven't had that opportunity in their career, maybe a 90 day patrol would be in order. Just to give them a good understanding. It may be a little easier for a CMC/CSC on the rivers to do a week or two. Especially this time of year when business is really hopping. Life is a lot different and the challenges that come with the job are alot different. D-13 has had a surfman CMC (CEA) for as long as I can remember. I am quite sure it is for a reason and not just coincidence. It just makes good business sense to me. But then again, this is government and not business, so I may well be wrong.

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Joe,
Let me put it this way... I am of the opinion that it would be good for the PACAREA CMC to have done a tour on a "White Needle of Death". That way they have a fairly complete understanding of what the folks go through in the course of a patrol. If they haven't had that opportunity in their career, maybe a 90 day patrol would be in order. Just to give them a good understanding. It may be a little easier for a CMC/CSC on the rivers to do a week or two. Especially this time of year when business is really hopping. Life is a lot different and the challenges that come with the job are alot different. D-13 has had a surfman CMC (CEA) for as long as I can remember. I am quite sure it is for a reason and not just coincidence. It just makes good business sense to me. But then again, this is government and not business, so I may well be wrong.

Hi Jim

What in your opinion is the duty of a CMC? When I became the 1st district CEA I had never seem a small boat sta, ant team, air sta, etc. All I had ever done was run engine rooms on white ones. Upon relief the district commander just said "Master Chief go out and do your job" He allowed me to make the job what I thought it should be. At that time there were 18 gold badges, how many are there now?

Jim

[BMCS Jim Madsen]

Jim,

For lack of a better analogy, let me say that I see the CMC as a "grounding wand" for the person that he works for. The ADM or Capt has not likely ever been enlisted. He may not have the feel for all the issues that face members in his AOR. The CMC should be a sounding board for things that may float up his way. The CMC should also assist the person he works for in understanding the effects of potential policy decisions on those units that he may not be intimatly familiar with because he has never served at that type of unit. Of course there is going to be the collateral "counselling" duties that come with the job as well.

[BMCM Stuart S. Slesh]

Jim, I don't think you need to have done a tour or even a trip on a 378 to understand the problems that someone on one faces...... if you're willing to listen to the person who has the problem. You're never going to get a person who has done a stint in ever aspect of PACAREA. Peple tend to stay in one or two fields their whole career. As Deane said, he pick the best people for these jobs.... out of the ones that apply. If you know someone who would do well in them, you should convince them to apply.

Jim,
they're selected by a screening panel. That's usually made up of the MCPO-CG, either LANTAREA or PACAREA, (preferably both), at least one other Gold Badge, and the Special Assignment Officer. After the screened the candidates, the Gold Badges get selected after an interview process with the Admiral that picks them. The Silver Badges are assigned by the Special Assignment Officer.

[MKCM Bob Brayman]

Jim,

For a full explanation of all your questions, check out 733

[MKCM Jim Bridges (Ret)]

Jim,

For a full explanation of all your questions, check out 733

Thanks Bob

Its about the same as it was in the 80's

Jim